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MZZCHIEF's Photo MZZCHIEF Posts: 9,369
6/12/13 11:47 A

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KP!

hey, thanks for coming back with your update, so happy to hear that you've found an endo you can work with! Yes, birth control pills can and do compete with thyroid. Hoping for continued good news... please come back and share what you've learned with our team... its thru our shared experiences that we all learn and grow.

Croyless!
Good morning... good to hear you are getting off the Synthroid. If you find that the Armour doesn't work for you, there's always Tirostint... the hypoallergenic version of T4.
Although I really don't think that a week is adequate time to come to a conclusion about Armour... you're really going to need 6 -8 weeks before you can say one way or the other. My guess she means a week to see how you do on that dosage... also how you do with the addition of T3 which the Synthroid doesn't have. Best with all that... good to know you're making some positive changes... that's what we encourage.

Have a fun day, yall!
: )
Mzzchief

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CROYLE55 Posts: 1,373
6/11/13 11:53 P

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MMZCIEF seen my doctor today She believes I had a reaction to the synthroid. So for the next 7 day she is trying me on armour. If no problems then she will refill, if not she will send me to an endo. Of course I had more blood done today. Wish me luck

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SPACEYKP's Photo SPACEYKP Posts: 242
6/11/13 9:23 P

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Just wanted to add a little update here. I got a referral for an endocrinologist and I saw her yesterday. I really like her. She listened to my concerns and explained everything to me. While she said my TSH was at a really good level, she acknowledged that my T4 was a little low and might be a problem. She even agreed to add a couple tests to the list that I asked her about. (She was already setting me up to have a lot of blood work done, so what's a few more tests.)

So now I have orders for a lot of blood tests including TSH and free T4 again, free T3, reverse T3, cortisol, TRH and pretty much every other hormone that I can't think of right now. She also ordered a 24-hour urine test in addition to the blood work. Yay. Lol. She said my thyroid felt like it might be slightly enlarged so she also ordered a sonogram. She did say that I need to be off birth control for a month before all the tests, so I have to wait a few weeks before I get them all done. She's being really thorough and doing the right thing by having my stop my birth control. She also understood the importance of my severe cold intolerance and said that she might have to recommend me to a specialist at a place like the Cleveland Clinic if the tests she ordered don't show anything conclusive or show something that she doesn't feel comfortable treating for a trial period. I really like that she took that seriously because being so cold is the main reason I went to the doctor about this in the first place. So far, so good. I'll post another update after I get my results.

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MYKIDSRSWEET's Photo MYKIDSRSWEET SparkPoints: (12,017)
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6/1/13 6:35 P

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Thanks again!




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MZZCHIEF's Photo MZZCHIEF Posts: 9,369
6/1/13 4:25 P

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hey MyKids!

If it looks like I'm following you, its cuz I am, replying and catching up with you.
Great you got your D levels measured, suggested that earlier cuz I hadn't seen this yet...lots of us here have the D problem and take megadoses of the stuff just to keep in range.

Anyways, your vitamin D and any other oil based vitamins should always be taken with food that has fat in it in order to be properly absorbed. Not alone. Reason for this, is that when you eat fat, it stimulates the gall bladder to release bile. Bile helps break fat down into small "micelles" which are tiny droplets of fat... so that your lipases (fat specific digestive enzymes secreted by the pancreas) can attack them more efficiently since smaller droplets have a greater surface area than one bit blob of D.

Short answer: Always take your D (or fish oils, vitamins E, A, K) with your breakfast or some other meal where you're having some fat for better absorption.

: )
Mzzchief



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MYKIDSRSWEET's Photo MYKIDSRSWEET SparkPoints: (12,017)
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6/1/13 3:47 P

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Hi...I have been reading this thread with interest, and had a question. MZZCHIEF, you talked about some vitamins interferring with thyroid medication. I am very low on vitamin D and take that in the morning with my thyroid meds. Should I change this habit? My vitamin D levels were 13 again this winter, so I take 2000IU every day and 50,000IU twice a week.




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MZZCHIEF's Photo MZZCHIEF Posts: 9,369
5/22/13 10:02 P

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hey KP!

Low vitamin D is terrible for immunity... and body temperature.
So it really isn't unreasonable to wait until after you've taken your D, retested to make sure you're in the vitamin D sweet spot, before doing anymore lab work. Because you know definitively your D IS a problem.

Lets hope that's all it is... and that you're feeling fab ASAP.

: )
Mzzchief



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SPACEYKP's Photo SPACEYKP Posts: 242
5/22/13 9:46 P

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Thanks for all the help. I'll put into practice as much as I can. I finally talked to the doctor again and she says I must be fine since all my labs are normal. Except for a big vitamin D deficiency. I have a prescription for that now. I brought up again that I'm always freezing and I've been taking my temperature for a week and the average was about 96.5. Even though that's not normal for a vitamin D deficiency they seem to think the prescription will fix it anyway. And since the rest of my labs are normal there's clearly nothing with me. I read that T3 is responsible for temperature control but she never checked T3, just TSH and free T4. But she refuses to do any more tests on me. At least not until after I've taken the vitamin D prescription for 12 weeks. I've thought about seeing an endocrinologist but its hard finding someone good who doesn't specialize in diabetes. This is just so frustrating I just don't want to care anymore.

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MZZCHIEF's Photo MZZCHIEF Posts: 9,369
5/19/13 4:47 P

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hey...

Sounds like you got the diet and exercise thing down.
If you weight 230 its going to slow you down, so its no surprise that you are tired.
One of the other problems with weight gain is that fat creates estrogen,and we've already covered what that does to thyroid and your metabolism.

Prolly my best suggestion was one that Purrballs made to me years ago. That was to purchase a digital scale and measure everything.

I was really surprised how much salad I could have... and how small a tablespoon of Mayo was!

The Spark Tracker is a fabulous resource too, you can load a bunch of vitamins and minerals into it and track those if you desire. Spark offers a preset menu, if you're gluten intolerant like me, you can just create your own library of foods and store them under ".Favorites".

About Fluoride... it slows the thyroid down. Back in the bad old days they used to use it to treat hyPERthyroid disease. So I would lay off that for about a month, unless you have some special situation where you have to use it and see if it makes a difference. Since I drink Tea, which has a lot of fluoride in it naturally, I simply brush my teeth with baking soda and use MI paste and Trident Xtra gum which has a special form of calcium in it that binds to the teeth. If you use fluoride toothpaste, just be sure to scrape your tongue to remove whatever you can.

As for the labs you didn't provide a reference range so I used the range that Labcorp uses. Their free T4 is 82- 1.77. Most of us feel better when the numbers are mid to high. Midrange on the Labcorp scale is 119.

If it were me, I'd get my TPO (thyroid peroxidase) antibodies tested next, as well as a thyroid panel that has TSH, Free T3 and Free T4. Sometimes when you are in the beginnings of thyroid disease, you'll have antibodies and an elevated Free T3. But we don't know that bc you haven't had those measured.

If you don't have high antibodies, then all you might need to keep you going is a bit of iodine and selenium. Selenium is an essential part of the enzymes that turn T4 which is the storage form of thyroid hormone, into the active form, T3 by removing an atom of iodine. Thats why the number changes... its how many molecules of iodine are attached.

See if you can find a multivitamin that has both.

As for doctors, perhaps one of our other members can help with that. Both Purrballs and Sandy (Hippie girl) have that info, I do not.

: )
Mzzchief

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MZZCHIEF's Photo MZZCHIEF Posts: 9,369
5/19/13 2:40 P

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hey KP!

Just saw your post, its a bit of a three ring circus at my house today... ha!
Not a bad thing, just crazier than the usual crazy...

this is going to be a lonngggg reply so....

emoticon

First off we recommend everyone keep a binder with their labwork in it notes, doctor bills, etc.
Just for the record, you're entitled to a copy of all your labwork.
This has numerous benes... if you move, you've basically got your patient history your new doc doesn't have to wait for it to be sent, it reduces paperwork and expense.
If you go to the ER, you've got your patient history.
End of the year, you have all your medical deductions in one place.
And the TOP reason... drum roll please...
And if you want to talk about your history here, yep... you've got your patient history.
You can talk about your self with authority, no guessing, no remembering... yay! Anything that keep your mental hard drive clear is a good thing.

Now that we've got that out of the way...

1. Birth control pills can interfere with the availability of your thyroid hormone... regardless of where that thyroid hormone is sourced... pill or naturally from your own thyroid.
They do this by stimulating the liver to create more binding proteins than would be normally created. An abundance of binding proteins means less available free thyroid hormone for your body to use. Additionally estrogen competes with thyroid hormone for binding sites on the cell membrane. Less thyroid hormone, greater tendency to gain weight bc the metabolism of the cell is slower and bc estrogen is proliferate... it causes things to grow.

Its also why we recommend taking your BCP at the opposite end of the day as your thyroid med if you are finding you are having problems keeping a stable TSH.

2. Soy contains phytoestrogens... specifically genistein and diadzein.
These two have the same effect as estrogen. Additionally if you take your thyroid med with Soy it binds it in the gut so less gets is absorbed. That's why we ask if you comsume it, that's why we don't recommend soy protein. Plus most soy is GMO, but that's another topic we dont' have time for here.

Girl... I need to get to Zumba... be back to finish this... there's more...

: )
Mzzchief






Edited by: MZZCHIEF at: 5/19/2013 (16:11)
New decade. Big world.
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SPACEYKP's Photo SPACEYKP Posts: 242
5/18/13 8:44 P

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I read the other post on my phone so I must have missed some things. Here's what I have going on.

I have taken Vitamin C, multi-B, and magnesium for about a year in an attempt to treat my ADHD without a prescription. They did nothing for my ADHD, or my fatigue, coldness, or any other possible hypothyroid symptoms. I will try adding in probiotics instead of fiber. I've thought about doing that but it always seemed easier to just put fiber powder in my Crystal Light.

So some answers to your questions.
I am not on thyroid medication. My last doctor who did the tests saw my TSH of 2.55, didn't check free T4 or T3 and said, "you're fine, everything's normal". I moved to a new state recently and had to get a new doctor, so I thought this would be a good time to get things check again. I have no idea why my TSH dropped because I actually feel worse now.

I don't take any other supplements. I do currently take birth control pills, and will probably be put on Adderall or similar soon and/or an anti-depressant. I do also take OTC Claritin. That brings up more questions. Birth control pills can give false increase in free T4 and T3, which would mean that my free T4 is actually lower than the test result. But I can't find anywhere that says exactly how much of an impact the birth control has.

I currently weigh 230 lbs. Which is the most frustrating part. I feel like I'm always being judged because I'm overweight and just making up excuses.

I'm 28 years old.

I try to work at least a few days a week, doing Zumba, walking the dog, riding my bike, doing pilates and gardening. There are some weeks I given in to the fatigue and don't do much exercise but I always make it a point not to sit around and do nothing. I cook dinner, clean up the kitchen, pull a few weeds from the garden, fold a little laundry, just stuff to get more steps in and not be completely sedentary.

My diet isn't completely clean, but I eat 2-3 servings of fruit a day, 4-6 servings of vegetables a day, a variety of lean meats. I try to eat fish a couple times a week. I cook most of our meals from scratch. We go out to eat maybe once or twice on the weekends. I do have a sweet tooth, but I try to keep hershey kisses and mini candy bars around so I can have one or two without going overboard on the calories. I'm sure there's room for improvement, but I think I have an overall healthy and well-balanced diet and I aim to eat about 1400-1500 calories a day.

I rarely eat soy or raw crucifer vegetables.

I drink occasionally. Never really more than two drinks a week, and often no drinks a week.

I do use a flouride dental rinse. Is that bad?

I used to take a One A Day Maximum multivitamin that probably had selenium and iodine but I don't take it any more.

I have a couple more questions.
You said my T4 of 0.88 is low, but the lab my doctor used said the minimum normal is 0.78. Where have you seen that 0.88 T4 is below normal? Of course, if my birth control affected the results, then who knows what it really is.

Have you heard of the TRH stimulation test? I don't know if there are any doctors/labs around here do it, but it might be helpful in explaining why my TSH is low even though I feel crappy.

Am I just a complete fool for thinking that there might actually be something wrong with my thyroid? I read all the information saying that TSH test results can be completely worthless, but the more doctors keep telling me I'm fine, the more I think that they're right and there must be something else wrong with me.

Do you have any suggestions on finding a good doctor/endocrinologist that might actually listen to my symptoms and try to help me solve all of my problems? Any good screening questions I should ask a doctor before getting into my symptoms?

Thank you so much for your help and advice! It's so nice to have a place to vent and ask all my questions. Unfortunately I am a crier. I will cry when I'm happy, sad, frustrated, etc. So it's hard to talk about all of this without getting teary-eyed and I don't think my doctor's take me seriously.

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MZZCHIEF's Photo MZZCHIEF Posts: 9,369
5/18/13 10:18 A

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Hey KP

The advice in my first post was tailored to things you can do right now for yourself, as well as asking you a few questions so I could get a better picture... and not throw too much at you immediately. What I covered were the basics.

My post was detailed and rather long, as I didn't want you overwhelmed.
I didn't get into thyroid prescription issues, the high or low thyroid hormone aspect.
That comes in this post.

Before I do, I can tell you that increasing you magnesium and dropping the fiber supplement, drinking more water (perhaps with a bit of lemon or a pinch of vitamin C to remove chlorine and chloramines which interfere with the thyroid), adding probiotics will solve your constipation problem.

When your body isn't optimized on thyroid hormone, your gut isn't going to be moving things along at the rate that it should.

So any fiber you are taking, sits in your gut and ferments.
Causing bloating and discomfort, constipation... particularly if you aren't taking a LOT of water with it. Magnesium gets things moving by relaxing muscles along the digestive tract, allowing passage of food and stool.

The way this disorder works, is that there are no clear cut solutions that fit everyone. Some people are given Synthroid and go on their merry way with no further symptoms. Those people aren't a member of this team.

So I've got to ask questions, see what you've tried, what's been tested, what those values are. I am listening to YOU, your symptoms, not randomly throwing out generic advice. With that out of the way, perhaps we can proceed to the second part of this process. Provided of course if you're willing to play!

emoticon

What thyroid medication are you on?
What dosage ?
Have you tried Cytomel or a Porcine (thyroid meds sourced from dessicated pig thyroid)?
Do you take any other prescription meds?
What supplements do you take other than fiber, green tea extract, cayenne?
How much to you currently weight?
Are you on birth control?
How old are you?
Do you work out and if so what type of exercise do you do?
What does your diet look like... how "clean" is it?
Do you eat soy(tofu, soy milk, soy protein) or a lot of raw crucifers? (veggies like broccoli, spinach,arugula, cauliflower)
Do you drink alcohol, if so, how much?
Do you use a fluoride dental rinse?
Do you take a multivitamin that has both selenium and iodine?


As for your TSH its perfect, but NOT if your Free T4 is .88.
BC a Free T4 of .88 is out of range low and you're freezing cold.
Your doctor is playing homage to your TSH and ignoring your thyroid hormone levels.
Which is like standing blindfolded behind an elephant, grabbing its tail and making the assumption that an elephant is a rope like creature with a tassle at one end.

Based on what you've said, I can make an educated guess that one scenario is that you're on a levothyroxine (T4) only medication. If that's the case, then you prolly have low Free T3 and high reverse T3. And what you need is a Porcine med that already has T3 in it, or Cytomel.

But I don't assume.
I ask.

: )
Mzzchief




New decade. Big world.
Hello, 60!

Never underestimate the value of getting out of your own way.

Team leader of Thyroid Community. www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
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SPACEYKP's Photo SPACEYKP Posts: 242
5/18/13 9:26 A

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Thanks for the advice. I think I might get a second opinion from an endocrinologist. I read that low body temperature can be caused by low T3. So I am at least going to ask her to check my free T3. Just for fun I check my temperature this morning and it was 95.5. I found a link on stopthethyroidmadness.com that shows how body temperature relates to thyroid and adrenal function and what is normal. I think I'm going to get a reliable analog thermometer and record my temperature every day and bring that to my next appointment. In going to a new psychiatrist next week to talk about ADHD treatment and I'll decide with him if I should go on antidepressants.

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ROSEMARIECHERIE's Photo ROSEMARIECHERIE SparkPoints: (608)
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5/18/13 8:46 A

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It took me three doctors to have one that understood and was willing to test for thyroid issues. Its not uncommon and I think I got lucky because he had had graves disease. I have had depression since almost four years ago, and trust me it isn't the same thing. True, some symptoms cross over, but it is not at all the same to combat. One can influence the other, but that doesn't mean that if you have one, you have the other. Don't worry too much, there is a light at the end of the tunnel! I started treatment in December and I'm doing much better- even possible for me to work again! As a college student, this diagnosis couldn't have come at a worse time, but c'est la vie. Keep looking for a doctor willing to listen to you, and remember that you're not alone. Keep smiling through it, I promise it will get easier. *hugs*

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GOANNA2's Photo GOANNA2 Posts: 11,444
5/18/13 8:06 A

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SPACEYKPThis is the best thread for advice. MZZCHIEF is
the best person for real advice. We have all been there and
have experienced a lot of the same symptoms.

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YIGOBUTTERFLY's Photo YIGOBUTTERFLY SparkPoints: (125,258)
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5/18/13 7:45 A

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Rambling is acceptable on this team as most of us have gone through much of what you have written to different degrees.

Mzz has given you some excellent advice.

Hope we can be of help.

Jane on Guam



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SPACEYKP's Photo SPACEYKP Posts: 242
5/17/13 9:29 P

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I had my blood work done this week and my doctor said some tests could take up to 10 days. My iron level is normal but I haven't gotten B12 or vitamins D back yet. I have actually taken all those supplements before and they didn't help at all

I'm just so frustrated because the doctors notes on the lab work said that my results were normally but we still didn't have an explanation for my fatigue. And fatigue is all she mentioned. The main reason I decided to go to a doctor about this was because of the cold intolerance. I was work one day and noticed that everyone was dressed normal for winter (like a long sleeved shirt) and some people had on short sleeved shirts, while I was wearing a long sleeved shirt, a sweater, the fleece inner layer of my winter coat, jeans, long johns, two pairs of socks and still felt cold. I realized that something was wrong. But my doctor completely ignored that symptom and clearly has no plans on treating it.

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MZZCHIEF's Photo MZZCHIEF Posts: 9,369
5/17/13 8:29 P

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hey Girl

Misery loves company, but its better to find a way out of it than count coup.
Just for the record books, all your symptoms fall under under treated thyroid disease.

So lets concentrate on addressing your problems.

Did you have your B12 levels measured?(tingly hands and feet)
What about iron? I see you had your ferritin levels measured but you didn't give your results.(fatigue, tingly hands and feet)
Where was your vitamin D score? (fatigue, immunity issues)

We recommend that everyone keep a record of all their labwork, so that they can have a copy should they ever move, need to see another doctor, or to discuss here on our forum.
I have a binder and a 3 hole puncher so that all my labs are organized chronologically.

Here are some things you can do for yourself now without your doctor's help... there's a good chance you are low on these micro nutrients:

1.A multi- B vitamin and vitamin C.
Not being able to wake up in the morning, indicates low cortisol. Cortisol is an adrenal hormone that is highest in the morning... your adrenals start slowly adding it to your blood around 3:30 4 am, which is why sometimes people wake at this hour. I would take the B vitamin in the morning, and the C ( or some fruit/veggie that contains i) at lunch and dinner. Vitamin C is needed by the adrenals, but there's some evidence that it counters cortisol... and you want your cortisol high in the morning so you can wake up refreshed and ready for your day. That's why you're gonna save your glass of OJ for lunch.

2. Magnesium.
The citrate, taurinate,glycinate forms are chelated with an amino acid to make them more bioavailable which means they get into you blood from your stomach more easily. Magnesium Oxide is not a good idea as it is not well absorbed and can cause diarrhea. Another good source is Epsom Salts. Take a nice hot bath with two cups of Epson Salts, glycerin (you can get both at Walmart, the glycerin helps to keep your skin from drying out) and vitamin C. A few drops of lavender oil will settle adrenals and get you ready for sleep.

3. Fish oil and/or cod liver oil.
Carlson's in the pourable form is great. Both of them are high in DHA and EPA, two Omega 3 fatty acids that support your heart and nervous system... help with mood.

I'd add these 3 things to see how you respond. It will not happen overnite, it will be a process of a couple weeks and months.

I would back off the fiber supplements and get yourself a good probiotic.
Fiber supplements can cause you to bloat, particularly if you don't drink enough water. They also bind minerals you need, they bind your thyroid hormone medicine.
If you're up to it, I'd recommend Kefir or Tibicos, which is a probiotic you can grown at home.
If not, you can start with an over the counter probiotic that is enterically coated so that the bacteria survive the hydrochloric acid of the stomach.

The green tea supplement.. unless its pure EGCG, you could be getting a dose of fluoride with your supp. If you use a fluoride rinse on your teeth, stop. Try using pure baking soda on your toothbrush for a couple of weeks... ditch the tooth paste. Or at the very least, use a tongue scraper to remove whatever fluoride remains after brushing on your tongue. Fluoride is what they used to use to treat hyper thyroid disease... to knock down thyroid hormone numbers.

The Cayenne may be causing stomach irritation which can create malabsorption issues.

I say try these suggestions for a couple of weeks.
Don't want to throw too much at you, but you can go to Newbie Daily thyroid and read one post a day so that you get an idea what the thyroid does an doesn't do. I haven't finished it but there's a video someone was kind enuf to post until I get to it.

Welcome to our team, glad to have ya!
: )
Mzzchief



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Never underestimate the value of getting out of your own way.

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SPACEYKP's Photo SPACEYKP Posts: 242
5/17/13 7:22 P

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I'm having trouble digesting all the information on hypothyroidism and I really need some advice from people who have been diagnosed.

Here are my symptoms:
Very sensitive to cold
Fatigue
Weight gain, even while dieting/exercising/trying to lose weight
Dry skin and hair
Brittle nails
Sadness/depression
Difficulty waking up in the morning
Constipation
Brain fog
Low body temperature (usually below 97)
Low sex drive
Numb/tingly fingers

A couple years ago I had blood work done and my TSH was 2.55. I don't remember the rest of the results but I don't think they were Free T4 or Free T3. I just went to a new doctor this week and had more blood work done. I was actually kind of shocked that my TSH was 1.33. My Free T4 was 0.88 and she didn't check my Free T3. Before doing the blood work my doctor seemed convinced that my symptoms meant depression, not hypothyroidism. I'm not denying that I might have depression, but I do know that depression is a symptom of hypothyroidism and that depression doesn't cover all my symptoms, especially the cold intolerance and weight gain even while trying to lose weight.

I read a lot that say that TSH and blood work is only so reliable, that doctors should be treating symptoms regardless of the blood work. I also have heard that TSH shouldn't be checked alone but should be checked after a TRH stimulation test. I haven't found any doctors yet that seem to practice that (not close to me at least), but I'm looking for someone who pays attentions to all my symptoms. Even my doctor said depression doesn't explain cold intolerance but she didn't seem too concerned with treating it. Since my blood work two years ago, I've gained at least 70 pounds and I regularly take fiber supplements and green tea complex and cayenne in an effort to increase my metabolism. Not sure if any of that explains the decrease in TSH. I also had my test done in the morning and I intentionally did not eat breakfast so I would have fasting levels of everything in my blood work. (I had CBC, thryoid, Vit. D, ferratin, plus a few other tests done.)

As far as depression, I do feel sad and worthless at times, usually because I can't lose weight. But I haven't lost enjoyment in everything. I still like doing things like gardening, reading, Zumba, hanging out with my husband and walking the dog. I just often don't have the energy to do them.

Sorry this is rambling. I'm just so frustrated right now.

I just want to know how hypothyroidism makes other people feel. And if my symptoms sound like they might be hypothyroidism despite the blood work, or if somehow it is all just caused by depression.

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