Posts: 30
7/1/12 9:59 A

I read the JAMA article that SandDollar recommended.
It was challenging to get through, but nonetheless worthwhile. The difficulty is that if you are a South Beach proponent or an Atkins proponent you will probably find support to reinforce your thoughts that you are on the right track. Yes, I said this will reinforce the decision you already made. That is because you have to read so much between the lines - and all you can fill in is what you know or understand already.
I wish they wrote a much longer article, telling us more about the various food plans and activities of the people studied. They only had 21 people who finished the study, and their average age was 30. They do not say how many were female.
Right now I am struggling to include excercise in my day and get a proper balance of food intake. I have recently realized that I feel much better on a low-gluten diet. Now I need to really implement that. I am a confirmed omnivore, but I feel I need to clean things up a bit. Although the South Beach to Atkins spectrum allows more fat in the diet, for me it should not be from fatty meats. I have a fairly sedentary job, but once every month or so I do something really strenuous on the weekend - scrambling up and down. Last week one trip really showed me how extremely out of shape I let myself get and four days later my thighs are still recovering.
It is so easy for me to say I will just enjoy and celebrate my curves, but when they interfere with my ability to comfortably do what I enjoy, and they make me fall behind my friends, those 10-20 pounds become a big problem!
Thanks to everyone who comments on these boards. They help motivate me, and they help me understand more of what is going on inside this fascinatingly complex and frequently frustrating body of mine.

Posts: 8,135
6/30/12 1:40 P

Oms....

Too funny about Hub's salt habit!
I too, find it difficult to eat at some restaurants as the dominant flavor is salt!

I hear ya about the total faith and love of young children... got two pups for that! Hey and they rarely talk back.

: )

I know what you mean about sleeveless. I used to have the best arms when I was young, muscled and firm...even beat a few guys at arm wrassling. Now... well, lets just say I'm happy that they help me get my groceries in from my car and give my loved ones hugs. When it comes down to it, that's all that really counts.

Have a fun day!
: )
Mzzchief

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6/30/12 10:36 A

Hiya Mzz!

Oh yes...I definitely track my food every day, but I didn't have a sodium number plugged in because I honestly didn't think I needed to. I prepare my own meals 98% of the time and salt just isn't big on my list of spices. I'm very sensitive to salt and find a lot of foods too salty, when everyone around me thinks it tastes fine. In fact, when my husband and I first started dating, I was appalled at how much salt he used. He actually kept a salt shaker in his bedroom!!!! He would salt his Domino's pizza and Wendy's hamburgers. UGH!! So...that was the first thing I changed. LOL

And yep, 3 kids is enough and most of the time, I'm happy that I didn't have another, but sometimes...you know? It would be nice to have a little one running around again. Looking at me with complete faith and love. Instead of 3 older kids telling me how uncool I am! LOL

Oh well...there's always grandkids to look forward to! :o)

Speaking of clothes...I almost bought a cute maxi-dress yesterday. But, of course it was sleeveless. I found a little sweater to wear over it, but it didn't look right. The sweater was wrong for the dress so I didn't buy it. BUT...the good part was that it was in the regular section of the store. It was still an XL, but it wasn't in the plus sized section. :o) That made me happy. Maybe the exercise is working....just wish the scale would budge.

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6/30/12 9:46 A

hey Oms!

Thx for the props... I appreciate it!
About your HIGH sodium LOL... first place to look is the diet.
If you track your foods in Spark, something I highly recommend, you can load a value for sodium there and see how much you consume. You've got to get some sodium... from my reading I've construed that 1500 mgs is about right as the "low" number... with 2500 being the upper range.

Also be a food nazi for a month or so and become a human weight station on your highway to health... meaning nothing gets swallowed unless its weighed, measured and recorded on your Spark tracker. If you load in other nutritional values, minerals and vitamins, you can see how your diet is stacking up and supplement where its lacking.

3 kids is one over your "replacement value", so you're ahead of the curve! If you think of that unborn child as vacation time and money in the bank towards your retirement, gifts and free time you can spend on your existing family, its all good.

Boys seem to notice what's in the fridge, pantry and on the table, more than what's in their closet. LOL

Love your quote... I say mabbe try tracking, measuring and weighing, give it some time.... mabbe buy a nice top or something you've been wanting a size too small so that you have a goal?

Be good and be good at it!
: )
Mzzchief

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6/29/12 4:14 P

Hi Mzz!!

No worries on getting the number mixed up! You know way more about all of this than I do so...I'm just appreciative for any info you give. :o) So I guess now I'll try to figure out why my sodium is so high. lol One more thing to figure out.

Yes, my ovaries failing was not in my plans but...it wouldn't have been my 2nd child, it would have been my 4th. lol I already have 3 children with my first husband. 23, 18 and 16. My lovelies. I just got back from shopping with my daughter (the youngest). She's definitely happy with my higher energy levels these days....and she has a new wardrobe to prove it! :o)

My boys are never home so they don't even notice. LOL (no new clothes for them! HA..that'll teach 'em)

I've been on medication for 15 months now......so I guess I'll give it more time. Patience, right? " God, please give me patience. And give it to me now."

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6/29/12 3:21 P

Hi OM,

I picked up my forms from the Dr's office, and you were right, its two hours after eating, not four as I had thought.

Unfortunately I still don't think that'll work for me when I'm working. And when I'm not working, its not an issue at all!

Mizzchief - that's a good point you bring up about changing my meds to match my eating. However, I'm not seeing the doctor till October, so I think what I'll do for now is not eat for an hour after taking it, but if I go out for a run before eating, bring a granola bar with me just in case I need it. And then discuss some other options with her in October and go from there.

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6/29/12 3:06 P

hey Oms!

I'm so sorry, I read that wrong about the sodium! I thought you said your calcium was elevated and your sodium low... ugh! My bad and my apologies!

Glad you got your D checked out.... lots of us are low, because that's something that doesn't work as well for us either... we've got to take more than euthyroid peeps to get our levels up.

Ya that your ovaries kicked out early is a bummer when its not in your plans, and you've waited to have a second child. Its funny because back when I gave birth to my second daughter, 38 was considered to be really late in life to have a baby. Now its commonplace.

With your ovaries not working and your thyroid running slow ... your pituitary controls both of these. Hmmm. Some women though... they go into menopause real early, it just runs in their family. Anyway... I've read that it takes about 500 calories a day to build an endometrium, and since that's what's happening when you have your cycle, for at least 2 weeks out of the month, it creates a big calorie deficit, allowing you to eat more or lose weight faster.

One of the good things about being gluten free is that it gets a lot of junk/fast foods out of your diet. And because you've got to eat something else, that's usually more fruits and veggies, which have more vitamins, minerals and antioxidants that say.... a donut? So you're going to feel better simply because you're putting better building materials into your body.

I don't know when you started on thyroid hormone, but if its been fairly recent... within the last year or so... I wouldn't throw the weight loss towel in quite yet.

It takes a while to find the proper TSH and Free Ts that work for you... then you've got to be at that level for a year or two before you start feeling normal again. Reason for this being that a low thyroid effects every other system in our bodies... so these systems need to recover too. Sometimes the increase of thyroid hormone from our meds, overburdens them, which is another set back.... which is why many doctors like to start us off at a low does of thyroid hormone, and gradually increase it.

You're so lucky to have such a good man for a husband!
That kind of support is critical.

Apologies for not reading your post more carefully...
: )
Mzzchief

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6/29/12 11:34 A

YAY that something works, is right! That is not something I've said about my body in a very long while. lol

I'm so glad I have you to bounce things off of, Mzz....these lab results and hell, hypo in general, are SO confusing! You're very sweet to answer so many questions. So thank you very much!

You say my sodium is low ...is that because it's the Sodium, Serum and it's at the upper end of the scale? (this is what I mean by labs being confusing...I thought that result meant I had too much sodium). My Sodium, serum is 140. My potassium, serum is 4.0. Calcium, serum is 10.2. I very rarely have trouble with cramps...and when I do have them, I can usually attribute them to a pinched nerve in my back. If I shift my weight, the cramp goes away. I try to use as little sodium as possible, too...and when I cook (I also love to cook), I always use kosher salt (no added iodine, which is why I started using the kelp).

And a big yes to the Vitamin D. When I first had my labs done (March of last year), my Vit D was at 10. So, I've been on 10,000 iu's a day since then and my last test showed it had increased to 59.7. My gyno wanted it above 60, so..I'm really close.

Ugh...the menopause, right? I guess technically, mine is considered "complete ovarian failure", since mine happened when I was 38, with little or no fanfare. Kind of a let down, actually. Had a period one day....then nothing ever again. So much for having another child when I remarried. Oh well.

Can't help but wonder if it's tied into the thyroid/gluten/auto-immune thing.

And like you, I eat within my SP calorie range and exercise a LOT. High cardio....lots and lots of sweating (I actually noticed that I sweat MORE since going gluten free....odd). I love your attitude about shifting focus, which I've tried to do...honestly. My husband is amazing and he is constantly telling me how beautiful, sexy, wonderful I am but...I don't see it. Finding prettty/cute clothes at my size is next to impossible...especially when I don't have much money for such things. Why is EVERYTHING sleeveless now?? LOL

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6/29/12 10:54 A

hey Oms!

Sorry to hear about the weight and your efforts to loose it.
Sounds like we have a few things in common.

I am gluten free as well... have been since 2007.
Since menopause, I've managed to re-gain ALL the weight I've lost!
I keep my calories within the Spark recommended range, eat clean and healthy ( life long habit), take appropriate vitamins/supplements, exercise, monitor my thyroid levels.
There's nothing more I can do.
So I've shifted my focus to healthy curves, purchasing clothing that flatters them, versus beating myself up for not being fashionably slim.

I have had some success with 1000 calorie diets.
But I can't live that way. I enjoy cooking, I like to eat and have a glass of wine every so often.
Anyways, that's my gig, not necessarily yours... so onto your questions...

The thyroglobulin test is usually called "Antithyroglobulin Ab" and if your looking at lab papers might have these words following it: Seimans (DPC) ICMA Methodology wjhich indicates the manufacturer of the test and the method of measuring your antibodies. That's the titration method that Labcorp uses.

Any immediate weight loss would be water weight, so give it a couple of weeks on your new thyroid replacement before judging Armour's effectiveness! And yes... that you don't feel anything different is prolly a good thing!

Your numbers will prolly be different on Armour, meaning your T3 will be higher and you may require more thyroid meddie, but Purrz is the one for that. She's our Armour/Porcines Gal! (Porcines are thyroid medications sourced from dehydrated pig thyroids).

I noticed you were low on sodium.
That can be from diet or low adrenals, problems with the pituitary or kidneys... disregulation of aldosterone and vasopressin. What does your potassium look like?
I have that chronic problem, too, so does Mom who has thyroid disease.
Mine is from eating extremely low sodium (don't add salt, don't eat processed foods), and from sweating profusely at my fitness classes.
If I don't take salt after my step aerobix class I am almost guaranteed to have foot and lower leg cramps at nite from low sodium.

Have you had any problems with cramping?

Do you take a calcium supplement or vitamin D?
Did you get your vitamin D status checked?
Calcium is regulated primarily by the four (or more) rice sized parathyroid glands, which are usually found in the back of the thyroid, but which can also be found in the upper chest cavity or thyroglossal duct in your neck. The thryoid itself releases calcitonin, which also plays a role in calcium regulation, albeit a minor role.

Regarding your insulin resistance score... here's a link that will explain a bit more about how they got your score of 28... which is fantastic, by the way! Go you! YAY something on the ole bod its working great!
: )

www.liposcience.com/diabetes/clinicians/

Anyways, have a fun day... here's to your health!

: )
Mzzchief

Edited by: MZZCHIEF at: 6/29/2012 (11:05)

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6/29/12 10:09 A

I have tried to unsuccessfully to link to this article in JAMA. It is a fabulous study on the composition of diet and relationships to metabolic conditions including TSH, cholesterol, T3, how much protein, well, just a lot of our concerns and what we have learned in the school of hard knocks. I saved the pdf. I don't know how long the article will be available.
Here is the first page.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/journal.aspx
I got there by entering www. jama. com
When you get to Jama, go to "Current Issue". The article is "Effects of Dietary Composition on Energy Expenditure During Weight-Loss Maintenance."

In 20 years, I gained 90 pounds on the low fat versions promoted by the health professions, conferencing with the nutritionist trying to improve my compliance so it would work for me. Beating myself up as I gained about 4-5 pounds a year. Thanks to low glycemic (2003. South Beach style), I have lost all but 10 pounds of it. About half way though, South Beach stopped working until I upped the protein.

Sparkpeople is such an important part of being able to track this composition.







Edited by: HPSANDDOLLAR at: 6/29/2012 (10:09)

Posts: 427
6/29/12 9:13 A

Ah...well I guess that makes sense. I keep hoping that maybe I don't have thyroid disease at all but....I guess I do. And I'm a little nervous now about what you said about the iodine. I had read reports that it was good to take kelp if you had hypo, so I've been taking a kelp pill every day (mostly) for the past couple of months. Should I stop doing that?

On my lab paperwork, there are several tests that mention Thyroglobulin. Not sure which one I should ask for.

I really thought that once I went gluten-free, the weight would start falling off...but I'm 3 weeks in and haven't lost a thing. Day 2 of Armour and I feel fine...but no weight loss there, either (I didn't really expect to so quickly...but a girl can dream can't she?)

My main goal is to lose the weight that I've gained because of hypo and early menopause. 70 pounds in 6 years. I'd never had a weight problem until then. At least I've pretty much stabilized now...been within 5 pounds of the same weight for the last 2 years but....I need it gone. I've tried EVERYTHING. Juicing. Low-Carb. No-Carb. Low Cal. Counting calories. Lots of exercise. Little exercise. HRT (ugh..that was awful), supplements. And now gluten free. And while the gluten free has made me feel the best out of all of it (which means I'll likely continue even if I don't lose weight from it), none of it has helped me lose weight.

Any help in that area would be sooo appreciated.

Also, Purr - my Free T4 was 1.3 - Free T3 was 2.7 - TSH was 1.82 - TPO - 10 - She also ran a complete metabolic panel and everything fell within normal ranges, although my calcium serum was at the tippy top of the range, as was my sodium serum. My insulin resistance score was a 28...which I believe is very good as far as diabetes is concerned, yes? I hope so because diabetes is about the LAST thing I need right now.

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6/28/12 11:15 P

Also what are your free T4 and Free T3 Tests? These are more important than the TSH

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6/28/12 10:28 P

hey Oms...

The reason why your cholesterol is inching up, is because when you have hypothyroid disease, your body has fewer LDL receptors to remove cholesterol from your blood.

Hyperthyroid peeps have the opposite problem... their cholesterol is often quite low because their LDL receptors are quite active.

I've got the same problem... my HDL is in the 90s but my LDL is elevated.
That's why I started on the silica.

Don't get me started about the freaking insurance companies because once I start its hard to find my off switch.

Suffice it to say that they are the devil in the machine.
And the devil just got signed into law today with the "Affordable (sic) Healthcare Bill".


The reason why its good to know if you've got antibodies, before you start on medication, is because that way you will know if the cause for your thyroid's malfunction is autoimmune or if its simply a case of you needing some iodine added to your diet. If I were you, I'd still get the anti-thyroglobulin antibody test run. Those anitibodies seem to be less responsive to medication. Mine have remained elevated, although my TPO's are down like yours now.

MOST cases are autoimmune. But that doesn't matter if your in the tiny percentage who can benefit by simply increasing your iodine. BUT you don't want to start on iodine, because if you've got the autoimmune form of thyroid disease, it triggers an increase in antibody attack on your thyroid, hastening its destruction.

Just so ya know, TPO is an enzyme that helps but thyroid hormone together.
Thyroglobulin is a tyrosine containing protein made only in the thyroid, that is modified and to which iodine molecules are attached. Its the T in T4 an T3.
The number after the T, say in T3 or T4, is how many iodine molecules are on the modified thyroglobulin.

Sueper, thanks for the fiber add, I missed that one, but I added it to the list and credited you.
So you think that eating the banana is what blocked your thyroid hormone and raised your TSH from 1.5 to a 2.7? Fiber and potassium it contains, that could do it. But ya know I'm not a big fan of working out on an empty stomach and that biz about feeling dizzy is definitely scary. So mabbe just keep with that routine of having your banana and ask for a boost in your thyroid hormone to bring your TSH to its sweet spot? As long as you are consistant... always doing the same routine, your doctor can adjust your medications up as needed.

If you take your meds under your tongue, they go directly into your bloodstream as Free T3 and Free T4, and bypass the gut AND liver. So you don't have to worry about whats in your stomach or your meds getting bound up with protein transporters in your liver.

Goanna
If your thyroid numbers are remaining consistent from one test to the next, then I would continue doing what you're doing and having your cereal for breakfast. You'd be an example of the medications being successfully adjusted around your habits.

If you stop your usual routine of cereal eating, what will happen is that you might wind up with too much thyroid hormone circulating in your blood.

Hope this clears some stuff up and isn't overwhelming.
: )
Mzzchief

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6/28/12 7:57 P

I love this thread and Spark. Learned something again today. No high fibre cereal for breakfast if taking Synthroid. I am on Oroxine, so I guess that is the same for me also. I will try not having the erela and see if that makes a difference.
By the way, I take my meds when I get up to go to the loo around 5 am and then can eat when I finally get up.

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6/28/12 12:12 P

That would be great, thank you! It would also explain my spike, if 4 is correct.

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6/28/12 12:08 P

I just talked to a nurse from my endo's office last Friday about this, and I took notes, but since I knew that taking it at night wouldn't work for me, I didn't write that part down. My memory says 4 hours, though. I'm going to be picking up my bloodwork requisition form on Friday (for August), and the nurse said she'd attach some paperwork for me, too, with all the information she gave me on the phone, so I'll let you know when I have it in my hands and can confirm.

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6/28/12 11:59 A

Oh...yeah, that would be difficult! But..is it 4 hours after eating that you have to wait? I thought it was 2. If it's 4, I'm screwed, too! LOL And I'm just like you in that if I wake up an hour before I "have" to get up....I stay awake. No way I could go back to sleep.

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6/28/12 11:46 A

Thanks for the suggestion!

The problem with that for me is that when I'm working (I'm a contract worker), I usually don't get home till after 7, and have to get up at 6, so I go to bed by 10, or I try to. Therefore its impossible for me to eat dinner at home 4 hours before going to sleep! I also take other medication at night, too, including my multivitamin, but I know I could switch those if that was the answer. I just don't think it is, unfortunately.

I even thought about setting my alarm an hour earlier so that I could take my meds, but the problem is that once I'm awake, I tend to stay awake!

Any other ideas???

Thanks!
Sue

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6/28/12 11:28 A

Sue - I was having the same problems when I took my meds in the morning. So, I switched to taking them at night, right before I go to bed. I just make sure that I don't eat anything past 9, so that I have a good 2 hours before I take my medication. And in the morning, I can eat as soon as I want to, which is nice.

Maybe this would be helpful for you, too?

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6/28/12 11:23 A

Thanks for that link, Mzzchief. My TSH has recently jumped, too. I'm meant to be at 0.5, and I was at 2.7! My endo wants to re-do bloodwork mid-August, after making sure that I'm taking my meds properly. Looking over your list, I know there are at least one or two things that I was doing wrong, so I'm trying to re-work it, and my routine, too.

My biggest problem is that I work out in the morning. I get up, take my meds, and then exercise. Then I shower, eat breakfast, and go to work. Issue - sometimes I would feel a bit weak or light headed when exercising, so I would eat half a banana. Then eating half a banana before my workout just became part of my routine! Well, you're not supposed to eat anything for an hour after taking meds, and here I was eating almost right away! So now, I'm back to not eating before exercising - hopefully it will work out okay, and I'll ask my doctor for some suggestions if it doesn't. (And I'm open to suggestions from others, too, if you have them!)

Oh, one thing that I didn't see on your list - when the nurse called me, she told me to make sure I wasn't eating high fibre cereal for breakfast, either. I guess that can impact the absorption of synthroid, too?

Thanks again for the list!

Sue

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6/28/12 7:56 A

Thanks Mzz!

1.8 might be ideal as far as the lab is concerned, but ever since my last test in January, I've been on a steady decline as far as weight gain (or lack of weight loss), lethargy, depression, etc. So...I'm thinking that 1.8 isn't ideal for me. I felt better at the .02 levels...even though I still wasn't losing weight.

My HDL is 91 and my LDL is 117...Non-HDL is 136. I know my ratio is great...but it's still concerning me that my cholesterol is rising with each blood test. Total cholesterol went from 207 to 210 to 215 to now 227. It's creeping and it's really bothering me because I want to figure out why. My insurance company doesn't care about ratio...they look at total cholesterol and weight, and set my rates accordingly. :o( We are self-insured so getting good rates for a family of 5 is imperative.

As for the anti-Thyroglobulin (say that 3 times fast, lol)...no, I didn't have that test run. I had to ask for the TPO test because it had never been tested...but sadly, I didn't know about the other one.

I started the Armour last night (60 mcg)...so we'll see what happens with that. I don't feel any different this morning, which I guess is good?

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6/27/12 11:25 P

hey Om!
Could be any number of reasons why your TSH jumped. Don't forget, the test is just a snapshot of your body chemistry... things can change hours, days or weeks later.

BTW... 1.8 is considered an ideal TSH for Synthroid.

But back to your question... things that can change your TSH....
www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_journal_
individual.asp?blog_id=3383396

As for the cholesterol, several of us are trying Diatomaceous Earth or Biosil for this.
What's your HDL like? Its protective over 50.

TPO antibody test of 10 is fabulous.
It means that these antibodies are under control which means lessened damage to your thyroid. So Congratz on that. Hypos can also have anti-Thyroglobulin Antibodies. Those are what's still elevated in my situation, my TPOs are under control now.

Did you get your anti-Thyroglobulin antibodies checked, too?


: )
Mzzchief

Edited by: MZZCHIEF at: 6/27/2012 (23:26)

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6/27/12 10:14 P

For real!?

Get on armour....My cholesterol, digestion issues, High BP everything never resolved until I got on dessicated meds. Synthcrap is just that...CRAP.

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6/27/12 5:17 P

I don't know but am interested as my cholesterol stays high in spite of the fact that it shouldn't. Someone will have good information for you. They always do! Good Luck!
Linda

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6/27/12 5:13 P

So...got my test results back and had my appointment today. I've been on the same dosage of Synthroid since day 1 (March 2011) as my doctor felt like she "hit it out of the park" in guessing that I needed 75mcg. Since then, my TSH has been around .02....which she was happy with, even though I still could not lose weight and had myriad other symptoms. At that point (January of this year), we switched from every 3 months to every 6 months for office visits.

I went two weeks ago for blood work and my TSH has jumped to 1.82 and my cholesterol continues to climb, despite eating great and exercising like a mad woman.

I asked to go on Armour, and she wrote the prescription but...I'm curious if anyone knows what would cause my TSH to jump like that after 15 months of staying level on Synthroid.

I also had asked her for a TPO antibody test and that came back at 10...if that means anything. lol

Thanks for any insight you can give!

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