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NANCYJAC's Photo NANCYJAC Posts: 11,488
9/5/08 10:21 A

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Gotcha now Mzzchief. Thanks for straightening me out. I certainly agree re the OTC, thyroid marketed or otherwise. I'm all in favor of dietary supplementation to make up for what is lacking in diet or if someone has unique special needs, but that should be a back up source of nutrients, not primary. I also agree that dietary supplements marketed for specific conditions (thyroid, energy, heart, etc.) are just marketing ploys to jack up the price when their useful contents may not contain anything more than what is in a generic multi-vitamin.

It also seems to me that if a dietary supplement maker is adding dessicated thryroid filler (i.e. without any actual thyroid hormone), then they are deliberately trying to fool consumers.


Edited by: NANCYJAC at: 9/5/2008 (10:21)
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MZZCHIEF's Photo MZZCHIEF Posts: 9,040
9/5/08 10:05 A

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hey Nance!

Dessicated thyroid is a broad general term that can mean anything from OTC preparations found in health food and vitamin stores (which by law don't contain any hormones) or in a preparation like Armour, Westhroid or Naturethroid (which by law do, and as drugs are regulated by the FDA). You've described the latter.

I was asking for clarification.
Which is it, OTC from a herbal store (dangerous to useless), or Thyroid from a pharmacy (regulated dosage medicine)?


Re:If desiccated thyroid doesn't not contain any active T4, what is the benefit of taking it?

Answer: There isn't to my mind.

This from Stop the Thyroid Madness:
Are there any non-prescription desiccated thyroid products? One more well-known over-the-counter (OTC) natural thyroid is called Nutri-meds which is available in either porcine or bovine desiccated thyroid. You may find other fine OTC products on the shelf of your local health food store. But…these products are not regulated, and the potency appears to be much less than Armour and other FDA approved brands, so you may have to take much more for the same effect…and hope that the consistency will be similar from bottle to bottle.

This from
articles.directorym.co.uk/All_Your_M
ed
ical_Needs_Hypothyroidism-a872048.html


Note: FDA regulations prohibit over-the-counter thyroid glandular products from containing thyroxine. The hormone must be removed from thyroid glandular tissue before it can be sold as a dietary supplement.

With a OTC thyroid product, your either getting nothing, or something, you really don't know what. That sounds like a waste of money to me and playing russian roulette with your health.

And the question still remains, what type of product is being specifically discussed here?

: )
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NANCYJAC's Photo NANCYJAC Posts: 11,488
9/4/08 6:28 P

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I'm a bit confused. If desiccated thyroid doesn't not contain any active T4, what is the benefit of taking it?

This is the definition of desiccated thyroid according to wikpedia:

Desiccated thyroid or thyroid extract, refers to porcine (or mixed beef and pork) thyroid glands, dried and powdered for therapeutic use. Pork, or mixed beef and pork, thyroid preparations were developed in the late 1800s, and are still used today to treat hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid gland). This product is sometimes referred to as "natural thyroid", "natural thyroid hormones", "pork thyroid", thyroid USP, thyroid BP, or by the name of the best-known brand, "Armour Thyroid".

Desiccated thyroid has been described in the United States Pharmacopoeia for nearly a century as: the cleaned, dried, and powdered thyroid gland previously deprived of connective tissue and fat... obtained from domesticated animals that are used for food by man (USP XVI). In the last few decades, pork alone is the usual source. Typically the potency has been specified only by iodine content ("not less than 0.17% and not more than 0.23%") rather than hormonal content or activity. The specifications of the British Pharmacopoeia (BP) are similar.

The best known American brand is Armour. Others include Forest Labs' Naturethroid, Westhroid by Western Research Labs/Time Caps, and Qualitest by Time Caps Labs. Canada's desiccated thyroid is made by Erfa and called simply Thyroid. All consist of desiccated porcine thyroid powder, differing only in the binders and fillers.

All brands contain a mixture of thyroid hormones: T4 (thyroxine), T3 (triiodothyronine) in the proportions usually present in pig thyroids (approximately 80% T4 and 20% T3). Armour is made in the following strengths: 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1, 2, and 3 grain as well as 4 and 5 grain tablets. One grain (about 60 mg) of desiccated thyroid contains about 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. Because the preparation is whole thyroid gland, each 60 mg tablet also contains over 59 mg of all of the other constituents of pork thyroid glands.



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KARENBOBARRON's Photo KARENBOBARRON SparkPoints: (47,750)
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9/4/08 1:49 P

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JJ - It has taken many months of working with my doctor after I fired 2 others that were clueless. I am much much better but not sure if I couldn't feel just a little better.

I think at my next doctor visit one more small increase in dose and I will be optimized but we'll see in 2 weeks when I go back.

Karen

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MZZCHIEF's Photo MZZCHIEF Posts: 9,040
9/4/08 12:33 P

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These are the ingredients in Thyroid Throu:

White Ginseng
Hymalayan Teasel Root
Wild Dendrobium Stem
Rx. Salviae Multiouhizae
Herbal Nerviliac
Thunberg Fritillary

From this link:
www.greenlife-herbal.com/Series_prod
uc
ts/1/thyroid-throu.htm?gclid=CLHg-J_R>EwpUCFRkigQodul5AQw


IMO some assumptions have been made here about the term "dessicated thyroid" that may or may not be accurate.

"Dessicated thryoid" is not necessarily Armour, Westhroid, or another prescription thyroid med.

OTC (Over The Counter) thyroid is by law are not to contain any active traces of T3 or T4.

If thats the case, then Sis could conceivably take the whole bottle of dessicated thyroid and not have an overdose of thyroid hormone, just an upset tummy.

The only effect will be in lightening her wallet and placebo effect. Possible contamination as supplements aren't as regulated as "natural" prescription thyroid meds like Armour.

So Mench, does "dessicated thyroid" mean Armour or an OTC product?

Changing gears here.... ten years is a lot of time, to be patient. If she's not getting results from her current doc, it may be wise to see another.

What's her current TSH? The standards were changed in 2002. The new range is .3 to 3.0, with numbers between 1 and 2 being "ideal" for MOST people. So if Sis is muddling along at a 3-5 level, which would be okay under the old guidelines, then no wonder she's having problems.

Before ya get into free Ts and all that jazz, start with the basics. And that's her TSH. Do you know what it is?

: )
Mzzchief

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PURRBALLS's Photo PURRBALLS Posts: 7,948
9/3/08 9:05 P

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I'd check into other possible problems such as adrenal fatigue. The meds CANNOT cancel each other out...at worst the T4 from levothroid wouldn't be converted to T3 if the armour is supplying enough T3. She may also have a conversion problem...we don't have enough information. Has she had anything other than TSH checked? Need to know free T3, Free T4, and much more. I'd get a new doc!!!

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JMENCH Posts: 15
9/3/08 6:05 P

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How did you get your dosage right Karen?

JJ

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9/3/08 2:23 P

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I take both Synthroid and Armour and they most certainly do not cancel each other out. I am feeling better than I have in a long time. Close to optimal.

I would steer clear of the herbal "cure" as well. If there was a cure for Hashi's this community would be a lot smaller as all us Hashi's patients would go to our docs and get hooked up with the cure.

Karen

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JMENCH Posts: 15
9/3/08 1:12 P

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She is under a doctors care. He proscribed them for her and they've been adjusting the dosage over the years. I only know that shes been frustrated by a lack of progress for over a decade. I've been trying to convince her to join SP so she can join in on the discussion.

Thanks in advance for any input,

JJ

NANCYJAC's Photo NANCYJAC Posts: 11,488
9/3/08 12:27 P

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Is your sister taking both medications under a doctor's care? I've never heard of a treatment regiment that uses both simultaniously and they are most likely cancelling each other out. Taking too large a dose can be very dangerous. There is no cure for Hashimoto's thyroidits. If this herbal claims to be one, steer clear of it.

Motivation without information is useless.

Willpower is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Discipline is practicing something until it becomes a habit.

There is a big difference between surviving and thriving.

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JMENCH Posts: 15
9/3/08 11:51 A

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My sister has severe Hashimoto-hypothyroid disease. She takes Levo-Thyroxin and dissected thyroid in large doses without much success.
Has anyone heard of the Chinese herbal cure: Thyroid Throu? I've only seen the testimonials on their website which I wouldn't take as gospel.

Any help would be appreciated.

Justin

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