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HEALTHIERKEN's Photo HEALTHIERKEN Posts: 5,866
11/6/11 9:54 P

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wow! sounds like lots of challenges with this recipe. maybe a good one for me to avoid. I make a lot of bread using other recipes, including one that uses about 1 part multigrain mix to 3 parts regular flour. That makes nice light bread. I suspect there's some extra leavening in the multigrain mix . . . .

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WEEZIETEE's Photo WEEZIETEE Posts: 64
11/5/11 7:17 P

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I just made my first batch of these and, while they're not the prettiest things to ever come out of my oven, the entire house smells like a dream. Instead of using whole wheat bread flour, I used whole wheat all-purpose flour (as well as the cup of whole wheat the recipe calls for) and had no trouble getting the dough to rise properly (or with it being overly sticky.)

I love the idea of using muffin tins - I'll give that a go next time. Thanks for the great idea!



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PROVERBS31JULIA's Photo PROVERBS31JULIA Posts: 2,078
11/1/11 4:22 P

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OH I just reread your note... got so focused on the breadmachine that I didn't notice the other thing about the flour not rising and all.

Many times with a bread, the yeast is fine but there's not enough gluten in the flour.

King Arther Flours website has a LOT of useful information about troubleshooting bread problems (even if you don't use their flours). But other companies also have info or sell the gluten. Just that KAF buys a lot of their wheat in Kansas and I live in Kansas soooo I'm partial to KAF.

http://www.kingarthurflour.com

You can usually buy wheat gluten by itself like at health food stores or online at a variety of places. Just search for it on your favorite search engines.

Anyway that's another thought but hopefully you'll have better results with your whole grain flour.

Also I think Gold Medal makes a "Better for Bread " flour and it's just already hopped up with the extra gluten. The gluten is what the yeast "climbs" up on as it rises up through the bread mixture...kinda like a ladder structure...(if I remember the story right.).

Hope that helps?

Julia

Matthew 6:33-34
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
*****************


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DOMESTICDORK's Photo DOMESTICDORK Posts: 161
10/16/11 11:46 A

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I bought some whole wheat bread flour yesterday. Hopefully that will help if I try again.

One small action is better than no action.


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LORIENABANANA's Photo LORIENABANANA Posts: 2,139
10/15/11 11:28 P

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DomesticDork - I used all whole wheat flour (didn't have any multigrain flour) and the exact same thing happened to me. I buy my yeast in a jar & it's been working for my other breads. I suspect the problem with the second rise may have something to do with the flour substitution. Good luck!

"A ship in harbour is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." -- William Shedd


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DOMESTICDORK's Photo DOMESTICDORK Posts: 161
10/14/11 2:41 P

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I don't think it's my yeast, which has been reliable for all my other bread recipes. I may try it again sometime, but we'll see.

One small action is better than no action.


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STEPFANIER Posts: 841
10/14/11 2:32 P

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Hi, everyone.
Bread can be tricky if you don't follow the recipe exactly. My first idea is that your yeast might be old.
Good luck--and I hope you'll give the recipe another try. I love it!
Stepf

PROVERBS31JULIA's Photo PROVERBS31JULIA Posts: 2,078
10/10/11 6:09 P

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Hey that's an idea - I have the KitchenAid mixer but haven't ever bought the dough hook!! Should check that out.

As for the breadmakers, maybe it depends on the brand, but mine has a proofing cycle... and it will vary itself depending on the sensors for the relative humidity and temps in my house. Unfortunately it's an older machine, bought in the 80's, and the timer for delayed starting (like to have it start at 4 am for bread at 8 am) doesn't work so I have to get up and start it or start it in the day when I'm downstairs. Once the whole thing goes, I won't have a replacement. It DOES have the Whole Wheat programming and extra cycles that go with it. I just love it. My sister has the really expensive one that starts with a Z - (Japanese sounding name???), and she's also had hers some 20+ years. It does really well with the whole wheat and other whole grains, maybe better than mine.

So it probably just depends...but yea I have tasted some machine made bread that wasn't much better than the store boughten junk... meh!

Julia

Matthew 6:33-34
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
*****************


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KINEPS's Photo KINEPS Posts: 5,738
10/10/11 4:07 P

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I also have both: a Kitchenaid Mixer and a bread machine. Does the Kitchenaid do a good job of kneading -- I've never given it a try? I have arthritis in my wrists so I can't knead by hand - but love homemade bread products.

Maryann


Maryann

RTKR - 9/14/05
LTKR - 2/1/06

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If ever there is tomorrow when we're not together, there is something you must always remember. You are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think. But the most important thing is, even if we're apart, I'll always be with you. ~~ Christopher Robin

PROVERBS31JULIA's Photo PROVERBS31JULIA Posts: 2,078
10/10/11 2:30 A

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DISCLAIMER ALERT: I've not yet made any of the recipes in the cookbook.

HOWEVER: I'm at least 4th generation bread baker, although these days I'm lazy and use the breadmaker machine.

But when I was married to husband #1 (not because he is still #1 but because he's now the Ex.), we used to make the German Mennonite bread called Zwieback - basically "double rolls". It would be a larger roll and then a smaller roll on top. Looked for all in the world like miniature snowmen on the pan while rising. (but it was only baked once. This wasn't the "double baked" form of bread that has a slightly different name but I'm not German, I flunked it royally Big Fat F, but is what many in USA think is "Zwieback", used like really crispy melba toast type of bread for babies to teeth on or whatever, so the old maid German Mennonite aunties told me. )(I like the term "hockey pucks" myself.).

So my rolls would be gloppy (they used the white flour - this was in the days before the white whole wheat was "invented')... but I discovered after a few pans of hockey-pucks that I was using too much flour between first and second rising, and so the second rising just made into hockey pucks. It's really kind of an acquired skill and I am by no means an expert. I do know that the weather will affect and so if it's a lower pressure kind of day high humidity, the dough will be wetter etc. Eventually I just had to learn by feel that at some point, the bread was still going to feel "sticky" and I just had to stop, and let it rise, and trust that it would work. And then it would work.

I later got to where I could make challah fairly decently (I've always been good at braiding hair, so braiding bread was as much fun, although a bit tricky doing 4 strand so I usually just cheated and did 3 strand.), but even so I'd think for sure it was "too wet" and just had to make my self leave it alone and the 2nd rising would be fine, light, edible, maybe not yet prize winning ribbon, but at least I didn't break a tooth trying to eat it!

Sooo don't know if any of that will help... just don't smother it to death with flour trying to get all the sticky off your hands.

And don't wash the sticky down the drain, bad mojo for the plumbing. Just rub it off into the trash can with paper towels or napkins or newspapers SOMETHING just don't wash it into the sink... the yeast will EXPAND in the warm heat of water in the pipes and you will have more serious issues to worry about than hockey puck rolls, with the cost of plumbing repair bills far exceeding the cost of ingredients for 2 or 3 or 4 extra batches of rolls to practice with.

So anyway... 2 pieces of advice for one, don't know what made me segue into the 2nd thought but oh well.

Julia


Edited by: PROVERBS31JULIA at: 10/10/2011 (02:31)
Matthew 6:33-34
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
*****************


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NELLJONES's Photo NELLJONES SparkPoints: (221,492)
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10/8/11 1:20 P

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I use my kitchenaid mixer, and gave the bread machine to the Salvation Army. I now know how bread dough should look and feel at each step of the way. Bread machine bread doesn't have a proofing, so it isn't as good as my own.

Nell
Reston, Virginia

No one ever got up in the morning wishing she'd eaten more the night before.

Original Goal: 114. Current old lady goal: 106.


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IAMHIGHLYFAVORD's Photo IAMHIGHLYFAVORD Posts: 392
10/8/11 11:54 A

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Absolutely! I used to use my bread machine all the time for them both....now I use my Kitchenaid Mixer!

Sharon
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MOSSROSE4's Photo MOSSROSE4 Posts: 513
10/8/11 11:31 A

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I am wondering if I can use the dough cycle of my bread machine to make the Multigrain rolls and the pizza dough?

Jo

Psalm 121
I lift up my eyes to the hills--where does my help come from? My help comes from the LORD, the Maker of heaven and earth.



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HUNGRYWOMAN2's Photo HUNGRYWOMAN2 Posts: 10,997
10/7/11 10:16 P

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The muffin tins sound like a good idea. I make a lot of muffins. They are easier for me than bread to portion. The half and half appears workable. I may try that one. emoticon

Teresa






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"Men's best successes come after their worst failures"

Henry Ward Beecher


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NELLJONES's Photo NELLJONES SparkPoints: (221,492)
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10/7/11 9:48 P

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I just use a dark muffin tin and hit it with Pam. Try everything. They may not look great first time around, but they're still good to eat.

Nell
Reston, Virginia

No one ever got up in the morning wishing she'd eaten more the night before.

Original Goal: 114. Current old lady goal: 106.


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DOMESTICDORK's Photo DOMESTICDORK Posts: 161
10/7/11 8:28 P

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I will try a muffin tin next time...though, this recipe calls for placing the dough balls on parchment. Do you think a non-stick muffin pan would suffice? I think my pans are non-stick.

One small action is better than no action.


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NELLJONES's Photo NELLJONES SparkPoints: (221,492)
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10/7/11 8:19 P

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Try putting your rolls into muffin tins for the second rise and baking. I've had good luck with that in the past.

I have never had good luck just using whole wheat flour in breads, have to go half and half with bread flour, or add a tablespoon of gluten powder.

Nell
Reston, Virginia

No one ever got up in the morning wishing she'd eaten more the night before.

Original Goal: 114. Current old lady goal: 106.


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HUNGRYWOMAN2's Photo HUNGRYWOMAN2 Posts: 10,997
10/7/11 7:45 P

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I have never taken the trouble to use a specific bread flour. My substitution might be whole wheat flour, but I am not certain it would make a difference. I understand about the dough not rising, as when I tried to bake in New Orleans my bread was goo. One thing you might try sometime if you try a bread recipe is to heat the oven to 150 and after it has heated put your covered dough in there to rise. I find it often helps in the rising. I appreciate the heads up.
It is never been my tendency to use self-rising or special blends. When I make bread, I go by feel. I am sorry you have had problems. Wish I had a solution.
Better luck with your next endeavor. emoticon

Teresa






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"Men's best successes come after their worst failures"

Henry Ward Beecher


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DOMESTICDORK's Photo DOMESTICDORK Posts: 161
10/7/11 7:31 P

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Anybody else having nothing but trouble with this recipe? First I had to sub in regular white flour because I had no whole grain bread flour ( which is my problem, not the recipes, and may have contributed to the following problems, though, having made bread quite often in the past, I can't see why lighter flour would cause the following problems). Then my dough was a wet mess and even after adding in a little more flour I still couldn't get it to form a ball, and forget rolling small balls for the rolls.

The dough rose great during the first rise, but only spread out and not up during the second rise. So I've got flat disc-like rolls coming out of the oven. Not too pleased after half-a-day's effort and a mess in my kitchen. I may have to stick to my bread machine.

So far the only review on the recipe here on SparkPeople.com has the same issue with not rising during the second rise.

Edited by: DOMESTICDORK at: 10/7/2011 (20:09)
One small action is better than no action.


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