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THINANDFITEMILY's Photo THINANDFITEMILY SparkPoints: (47,073)
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5/8/12 12:58 P

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Hi! emoticon
I have been very busy and have not checked in here. I actually was wondering where Karen was because I guess she dropped out or dropped me as a freind?? Have no idea. Yvonne-you are very helpful to me towards my health journey. I supported Karen because I figure she knows what she is doing for herself. As for enemas and the like-I worked at a nursing home and so those were always looked at as last resorts...er no pun intended.
I actually hope Karen is ok- I was always supportive so don't know what she is up to...BUT HUGS to you and love!!! emoticon
Em

~~~ Emily~~~
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DEFIANTVEGAN's Photo DEFIANTVEGAN SparkPoints: (34,186)
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5/8/12 11:38 A

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Erin,

Hugs very well said indeed. We wish that no one judges anyone here for choices of there own or opinions.

Unfortunately not everyone is going to be liked which is a sad thing but as long as people respect or keep there opinions to themselves.

emoticon

"This Mortal must put on immortality.....Death is swallowed up in victory" 1 Cor. 15:53-54

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ERIN1957's Photo ERIN1957 SparkPoints: (65,417)
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5/8/12 4:58 A

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Lisa, you made great points and wrote it out so well; explaining how so many saw it and felt as well.
People are passionate with what they believe. Like religion and politics and we all know how heated these passions can get. I think next to these and even equal with these; is the passion of life choices for health and or humanitarian issues. Who doesn't get choked up seeing animals being abused. I have shed many tears over this. The control issues of personalites during these passionate moments is what I believe got in the way.
As an adult I do not need to be scolded and do not like it one bit. I also do not like to be bundled into a group or called names, because of my opinion or choices. Some people like to seperate people and place them in groups. We have done this through out our human history. Seperation is fine, when we choose like groups for our own. To be with others that share our passions. The problem I saw was these teams are open to all, and all choices.
I once was on a team, and I didn't follow their rules of food choices and I was ritaculed for it. I felt rejected, embarrassed and left...I wanted to fit in, and didn't. My error not theirs. I moved on. When we have such an open form here and in blogs we open ourselves up for many opinions. Which I so enjoy so I can see all the flavors in my choices, whether they be like mine or not. I am OK with strawberry when you pick choclate(analogy), but I do not want to be excluded and looked down upon for my choice, my differences.
Oh how we have beaten up people along this road; for their personal choices. We see it each and every day in our lives, through out the world as well. As we lump others into groups assuming they follow the typical sterotype (society is the "we" I use and human nature is the "we" I use). No person has lesser value than another...NO ONE!
To be treated like we are stupid (I hate that word) is an emotional hurt and not everything or everyone here is OK with that. So many of us carry painful situations that are part of our life's journey. Tact is needed, support is wanted and good sound information...so we have the tools to be successful.
There are lines that are crossed and when warnings are given, the warnings need to be followed. People can not be allowed to bully or hurt others. It is a leaders responsibilty to address anyone that is causing another harm or pain. So much time and space is given for the problem to be corrected and when it is not, the problem is looked at and a solution has to be made. When a person ignores the request and continues personal attacks (yes even in a private form) it can not be allowed or tolerated. These situations are hard for any leader to address, especially when addressing it with someone who is admirable and has benefical traits. There is a lot more to every situation than meets the common eye. This is not as simple as it may appear. It is not as simple as a diet plan, it is not as simple as we would like or want it to be.
I may not agree with what another chooses to do in their personal life, but I will fight for their right to do it. Until it starts harming or hurting another. We have to ask ourselves did the value out way the harm? Never, never can we look upon this in that eye or we have lost what value we hold dear here and in our society.
I wish to move on from this and build on what we have here. I absolutely love the excitement here and the open form of choices and the sharing. I pray we have learned from this and can move on with passion and respect.

Edited by: ERIN1957 at: 5/8/2012 (12:53)
Walk through your journey with a loving open heart and as well mind. Treat others as you would like to be treated.






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KOKOEK9's Photo KOKOEK9 Posts: 7,164
5/7/12 7:12 P

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very well said, it is to bad if knowledge couldn't have been more constructively channeled, she was just to domineering and threatening

Mike


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LISA01605's Photo LISA01605 SparkPoints: (70,683)
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5/7/12 6:23 P

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I have been thinking about this situation a lot today. I first learned of it yesterday. I have been less connected to spark lately. First of all, Yvonne, you have nothing to apologize for. You are one of the best leaders out there! I truly appreciate all you do and your incredibly caring attitude.

I also agree Karen's "my way or the highway" attitude was a problem and I am sorry to hear that people were scared away and offended by her. I do feel like I need to say that aside from being pushy she was always good to me. I have been struggling in general for about a month now (maybe more) and Karen reached out to me several times through sparkmail. She offered to help in any way she could and was very caring. I also liked that she posted many interesting threads with links to videos and blogs etc. I don't know if her heart was in the right place or not but I felt like it was. I guess I thought she was just a zealot like someone else said. She thought she found the "true way" and wanted to help others find it too. She lived her truth and had seen many benefits from it. I read her juice feasting blogs and enjoyed following her progress.

I am not saying this to defend Karen and I think the team is better off without her but she had good points too and I would feel wrong staying silent. While she was very caring toward me I also felt restricted by her. I used to blog more but lately I have stopped because I felt like I couldn't be as honest about my feelings or my path. I blog to get my feelings out and my blogs come from a really deep and honest place. I want them to reflect my true journey to health. Lately I felt like if I was as honest as I wanted to be I would be letting Karen down and I didn't want to get "yelled at." So, I just stopped blogging until I could figure out what to do about this. It looks like this situation has solved that problem. I love having people read my blogs and offer constructive criticism and encouragement but I don't like being scolded. Karen is the only one I have had this problem with.

Anyway, that is my 2 cents for what it is worth.

Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect. It means you've decided to look beyond the imperfections. -unknown

Do or do not, there is no try - Yoda, Star Wars

Just Do It- Nike

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KOKOEK9's Photo KOKOEK9 Posts: 7,164
5/7/12 4:18 P

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I shudder to think of the damage Karen could have done, she was talking more like she had the licenses. I know AN RD in a group who has the right to say some of those things that don't and she advises she don't push. Also the way Karen was pushing the fasting could be harmful. That should be done only with a doctors guidance. I will miss her expertise but not her domineering attitude. Yvonne did everything that had to be done and is not at fault for anything

Mike


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JENNIFERLYNN76's Photo JENNIFERLYNN76 Posts: 292
5/7/12 9:44 A

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Yvonne, Please don't feel that you need to apologize for anyone else. It was not your fault at all. You clearly had no malicious intent in asking someone to join this team nor to be a leader. It isn't your fault at all.
I am glad that this team is free now. I joined this team because of the posts that say no matter how much raw you eat it is open to all. This team is very supportive and that is what I am looking for. Please focus your energy on the positives now and leave the past behind :)

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TRAVELNISTA's Photo TRAVELNISTA SparkPoints: (180,335)
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5/7/12 9:14 A

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emoticon all for the wonderful support and comments. I read the ones from last night and I was able to get a good night's sleep.

The ones I read this morning just re-enforced everything that everyone was trying to tell me.

I love you guys and I love how everyone pulls together and supports/motivates each other.

Yup, we are going to be just fine! emoticon emoticon
emoticon again from the bottom of my heart!



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FEB_SHOWERS16's Photo FEB_SHOWERS16 Posts: 2,057
5/7/12 9:08 A

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Yvonne,
How could you have known what would happen? You are not responsible for this person and therefore cannot be held responsible for what happened.
What you did to promote education and healing (in an effort to reverse the damage) is what people are looking at and admiring- what you are doing to bring the team back together... that's what counts. Nobody is sitting around saying, "How did this whole thing happen in the first place?" And if they are, then they certainly aren't looking to you for someone to blame. You didn't do anything wrong- you weren't the one who has been asked to leave Sparkpeople.
No apology necessary- it wasn't your fault!
And I bet this whole thing was totally worth that awesome beach-time reflection you got to have... I LOVE the ocean!


Marie








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ERIN1957's Photo ERIN1957 SparkPoints: (65,417)
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5/7/12 5:23 A

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Just a small pothole ...hmm the road is looking pretty good ahead.!
I like my trip planner and the guides are pretty awesome as well, they make this adventure a good one. Let's keep the bus a happy one and never forget to enjoy this ride.
I am responsible for my part of the trip, sorry some one got car sick along the way....open a window and let the smell go away and enjoy the rest of our rawk'n journey.


Walk through your journey with a loving open heart and as well mind. Treat others as you would like to be treated.






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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 7,965
5/7/12 2:30 A

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I had very little time over the last few weeks to be on spark so missed all this. I do remember some comments that seemed a little harsh, pushy and/or negative from this person. I guess I didn't worry about it. Either way, I agree that we can only control our own behavior, not that of someone else. Hopefully all this will be quickly forgotten and everyone on this team will continue to grow in their journey towards better health. emoticon

Birgit

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BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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CHERIE22222's Photo CHERIE22222 SparkPoints: (2,291)
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5/7/12 2:22 A

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Yvonne,

I am on another team, where I saw similar things. I came to this team after reading your blog and the statement that describes this team at the top of the page. I like this team. I think it is a good and positive place to learn and grow. You all made it this way. As you all continue to pull together and make positive changes, those who need your help will find you. Remember that old proverb, when the student is ready, the teacher will come. It could be here, that when the teacher or teachers are ready, the students will come.

Sometimes there has to be winnowing to separate the chaff from the grain. The grain is pure and healthy and ready for use then.

You have learned some tough lessons. You have grown. Now, more challenges lay a head and you will continue to learn and grow and change and good will come out of it.

Cherie emoticon

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DARA52's Photo DARA52 Posts: 3,265
5/7/12 12:48 A

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Oh boy. Now I feel really bad. I knew better. I have been through this before with her. You are not responsible for other people's actions though, Yvonne. And you always think the best of everyone. Our teams will recover and move on. I can already feel the mood lifting. Hugs and take care. We will all be here tomorrow.

KASHII's Photo KASHII Posts: 1,598
5/6/12 11:12 P

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I agree with all previous posts - no beating self up :)

As you have always stressed, we all need to do our homework and research. Regardless of Karen's views, we should all be able to make our own choices about healthy eating. As for anything else, once it was brought to your attention, you did the responsible thing - you took time to consider it objectively, thoroughly, and really make sure you were doing what you felt right.

This is a great team, and will continue to be! Thanks for all of your help and leadership :)



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DEFIANTVEGAN's Photo DEFIANTVEGAN SparkPoints: (34,186)
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5/6/12 10:28 P

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Wow that's terrible KoKo... I totally agree with you it could have worst...

Yvonne, Hugs and more hugs!



"This Mortal must put on immortality.....Death is swallowed up in victory" 1 Cor. 15:53-54

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KOKOEK9's Photo KOKOEK9 Posts: 7,164
5/6/12 10:17 P

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Yvonne stop that right now, if you want to be an example to the team quit beating your self up. You did the beat you could. Now that she is gone the team will come back together. Can you imagine what other damage she has don'e. I know of one case where she was kindly repramanded by a team leader and somebody told the team leader off the leader quit sparks. She was very intimidated by that sort of thing. but some people got her to come back. So DON'T BEAT YOUR SELF UP

Mike


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DEFIANTVEGAN's Photo DEFIANTVEGAN SparkPoints: (34,186)
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5/6/12 10:04 P

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YVONNNNNNEEEE! My Sweet friend you do not deserve to be so bent out of shape and feeling sorry unfortunately we don't know how everyone is going to turn out in the team.

Most if not all come here to change there eating habits and be healthy Karen did just that but she took it to a different level and that is NOT YOUR FAULT!

Going to the beach was a wonderful idea as I did too but never made it because I didn't want to go alone. I think I only did that once in my life time, I think it is a good choice to do so and clear your head and I will be doing the same as I think it's soothing and situations like this really feel on the lighter side when you spend time alone and at a relaxing place like the beach.

You have nothing to be sorry about we have pulled together and we are still a TEAM!

Definitely as you said we need to move forward and we are and I thank you for all you do for Sparks, this team and for me.

emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon

Edited by: DEFIANTVEGAN at: 5/6/2012 (22:10)
"This Mortal must put on immortality.....Death is swallowed up in victory" 1 Cor. 15:53-54

*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Leader of Raw Foodies Team
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ndividual.asp?gid=5031


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WOOFGANG's Photo WOOFGANG SparkPoints: (29,772)
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5/6/12 9:54 P

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Yvonne, please stop beating yourself up over this. We are all adults and have responsibility for our actions and reactions. I can appreciate that some people have been hit below the belt which has made it more difficult for them, and I am sorry for the pain which has been caused, but you are no more responsible for Karen's words and actions than you are for how some of those words and actions have been received.

You do a great job as a leader on this team and others, and you have always been supportive, compassionate and kind - please let's put this drama behind us - and get back to the business of raw foodies!

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TRAVELNISTA's Photo TRAVELNISTA SparkPoints: (180,335)
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5/6/12 9:41 P

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I have been MIA for almost the entire day spending my time soul searching. I was going to go to the gym this morning to take 2 water aerobic classes but I felt the ocean calling me. I do a lot of my serious thinking at the ocean. Today was a gorgeous day. I sat on the beach just watching the waves roll in while thinking about all of the havoc caused by one individual and my role for letting it happen. Then I took a 2+hour walk along the shoreline, still thinking.

I have such remorse for everything that has torn this team apart. It was I that invited Karen into our once loving, harmonious family. I unleashed Karen's reign of terror on this team when I invited her to be a Co-Leader. I have been so stressed over this and going over the progression of things in my mind. Many of you sent me Spark Mail telling me how her tone in the threads was condescending or belittled them. How she made them feel bad because they weren't eating as Karen said they were supposed to be. Feeling that it had to be her way or the highway. Sadly many of them hit the highway and left the team. Some have returned when she left and I am hoping the rest will come back.

In the beginning I would defend Karen by trying to explain her bark was worse than her bite and that she was just so passionate in her beliefs. I finally wised up and saw her for who she was when I was told by approx. 6 members who Karen solicited for her mentoring business. You don't solicit team members for profit. It is against Spark Policy and it is just wrong on a moral level. You are supposed to support and motivate your fellow team members. You share your knowledge not charge them for it.

I just need you to know I am so sorry for allowing this to happen. I also need to stress that no one has the right to verbally abuse anyone on any of the teams. No one has the right to dictate to you how your should be eating. Unless that person has a medical degree they should not be dispensing that type of advise anyways. Should you expierence this again you need to report that post, blog, or email as inappropriate. You can write directly to any of the Spark Coaches for assistance if there isn't a spot where it occurred to check off the box Inappropriate.

As Team Leader I should have put the cabash on it sooner as Karen's advice was getting out of hand. Seriously she went from telling everyone on the team they need to do daily enemas, then she hopped on the bandwagon to do a Juice Feast, not a few days because that was sufficient for a proper cleansing of your body but you had to do a 90 day Juice Feast as she was, then she was off on promoting water fasts at a clinic, and lastly the 80/10/10 which broke the camel's back. Not sure what she will be promoting next week but we don't have to worry about it because she is not allowed to return. Karen has been asked to leave Spark People.

My heart is very heavy over this. A team leader should be a role model. What was I thinking? I am so sorry! I feel that this team as a whole needs to heal. And we will! We can get past this together and emerge as an even better and stronger team. We need to all put this behind us and move forward. We can build healthy happy bodies following sensible ways of eating. I just know we can do this! We will do this as a team. emoticon emoticon

Edited by: TRAVELNISTA at: 5/6/2012 (21:58)

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