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BONIDALE's Photo BONIDALE SparkPoints: (23,660)
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3/25/13 11:33 A

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James McWilliams addresses this issue today in his blog... james-mcwilliams.com/?p=3518

Boni
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LIV2RIDE's Photo LIV2RIDE Posts: 6,208
3/25/13 9:10 A

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Well said Terry! It's a journey not a race. So let's just support one another no matter what part of the journey we are on.

Kelly

A man who wants something will find a way; a man who doesn't will find an excuse.
- Stephen Dolley Jr.

BONIDALE's Photo BONIDALE SparkPoints: (23,660)
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3/25/13 7:48 A

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I agree. Well said Terry.

Boni
Co-Leader Vegan Fitness and Nutrition

"There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going." Anon
"Finishing is winning."
"Treat everone you meet as if they have a sign around their neck, "Make me feel important."


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SWEETMAGNOLIA2's Photo SWEETMAGNOLIA2 SparkPoints: (92,882)
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3/25/13 5:39 A

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Well said, Terry.

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SHIVAMOON's Photo SHIVAMOON Posts: 2,608
3/25/13 1:24 A

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and I'd say you're doing great, Terry.

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GENTLEVIKING's Photo GENTLEVIKING Posts: 3,798
3/24/13 11:23 P

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The only thing I can really relate to is the pressure to be a certain "kind" of vegan. I started out overjoyed at becoming vegan...but after a while I honestly started feeling kinda paranoid about it all, because so many websites were saying one thing or another. "We should avoid oils / we need oils; we should avoid this ingredient / this ingredient is good for you; we should all eat raw / eating raw is not practical....and so on and so on. It became for me almost like an identity crisis! "Who am I?" LOL!!!

I finally had to choose, for myself, the sanity of simplicity. In making that choice, my joy has returned! Now I say, "Right now I'm plant strong on my journey and hope to "grow" into being fully vegan, and I also want to add more raw food elements to my diet, though I'll never be fully raw. I loved cooked food too much for that." And that's me. That's where I'm at on the journey.

One thing I loved about this group from the beginning (thanks to the leadership of Kelly and Boni) is that it teaches that veganism is a journey and so it accepts folks on different places on the journey. The people in this group seem to understand that it sometimes takes years to know "who you are".

I think the author of that article needs to realize that, too...that veganism is one big assorted family, all crowded into the ole RV of life, taking a journey together! She should see that the vegan family has become "bigger", with folks exploring all sorts of avenues with it.

I, as a vegan, should not judge someone who is a raw vegan, for example. He is my brother on the journey. He should not put pressure on me to become raw, either. He should just be who he is and accept me for who I am. And if I ask for more info on being raw, then he should feel free to share. We should accept each other and just be glad we are on the same journey.

Someone once told me that just by being a plant strong vegan who formerly lived on hamburgers, that I had saved approximatly 60 cows so far. Am I making a difference? I think so!

T E R R Y

***Life has no remote. Get up and change it yourself!
***"I can do all things through Christ!" Phillipians 4:13




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SHIVAMOON's Photo SHIVAMOON Posts: 2,608
3/24/13 7:53 P

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I just read the article... bleh.

... what Bilby4 said.

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LIV2RIDE's Photo LIV2RIDE Posts: 6,208
3/24/13 10:03 A

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I read the article and wanted to wait to read some comments before I put my $0.02 in. I find it ridiculous that we have to put people into categories whether it's diet or something else. We all want to "be something". I've been eating a vegan diet since 2007 and at the beginning it was all for health reasons. As time and research went on I started changing other area of my life like the products I consume in other ways like clothing and beauty products. But what I have found is that I will never be fully vegan in that way. And you know what? I'm ok with that. And I'm honestly tired of trying to be perfect in this area because of what others might think or say about me.

Personally I don't care anymore how anyone eats. If you want to consume animals that's your thing. If you want to eat vegan that's cool too. Just don't criticize me for my choices.

Kelly

A man who wants something will find a way; a man who doesn't will find an excuse.
- Stephen Dolley Jr.

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3/23/13 1:06 P
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"I believe that this creeping demonization of our food landscape - the environment of shaming and judgement, posturing and rancor over nutrition - deeply undermines and restricts our efforts at building a culture of compassionate, dynamic veganism."

I just read the article, and the quote above is from it. It certainly seems that she's doing exactly what she doesn't want others to do.

However, after reading the comments following her article, and her responses, it looks like her article was a response to bullying that she saw different food advocates doing. And I get that. I'm always glad for this site because most of the time we can express our beliefs, describe our actions, and no one gets really didactic about it. I know what's right for me, but it may not be the same thing that's right for you.

She DOES, however, want.a firm line drawn between people who are vegan for animal-protection purposes and people who eat a plant-based diet for health reasons. Sigh.... Sounds like she's guilty of some of the bullying she hates so much.


K8

Some people think the “plant-based whole foods diet” is extreme. Half a million a year will have their chests opened up and a vein taken from their leg and sewn onto their coronary artery. Some people would call that extreme.
- Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, “Forks Over Knives”
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3/23/13 12:22 P

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I really liked your last point Rheynklaw! I agree with you IMVEGAN. those of us who came to be vegans for health reasons and through reading, became more aware of animal welfare shouldn't be discounted.

Boni
Co-Leader Vegan Fitness and Nutrition

"There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going." Anon
"Finishing is winning."
"Treat everone you meet as if they have a sign around their neck, "Make me feel important."


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EVELYNF's Photo EVELYNF SparkPoints: (14,619)
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3/23/13 11:43 A

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I guess it's a case of lifestyle versus diet, and how people define vegan. Someone on a strict plant-based diet isn't necessarily a vegan, i.e. consuming animal products in other ways.

I also know of people going vegan for health reasons then doing more research and coming around to the ethical and environmental reason, I am one of them! So it does do a disservice to discount those that eat plant-based.

I do agree that it doesn't really matter how people cleaned the beach or got to reducing animal intake (suffering) it's happening anyway. The ends justify the means - I've always wanted to say that!!

Rheynklaw I am always surprised when vegans get nasty and it happens a lot when people declare that they are no longer vegan. Yes it's tempting to be snarky, however, as you pointed out, where is the compassion - practice what you preach.

In addition to culture I think economics has a lot to do with meat consumption, look at countries like India and China - traditionally more plant-based. They are doing better economically and are now eating more animals... and getting western diseases. If you are a poor peasant it's unlikely you will be having any meat (or pudding).



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RHEYNKLAW's Photo RHEYNKLAW SparkPoints: (74,239)
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3/22/13 11:23 P

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I think her characterization of vegetarianism of the past is pretty narrow and ethnocentric. Even if it is true that until recently, the most vocal supporters of eating veg in America were all about the animals, she completely leaves out the fact that numerous cultures around the world ate primarily plant-based diets for centuries before this country even existed. They did it because that's how they learned to thrive, and the physical health of their people was directly related to the health of their land and the creatures they shared it with. Today, cultural limitations on animal foods, including when and in what manner they are consumed, often have religious significance, which suggests that eating these foods has historically been the exception rather than the rule. No, I can't name an indigenous people that has ever been strictly vegan, but that's kind of the point: it wasn't necessary because respect for animals, care of the environment, and attention to health were all part of everyday life, and part of what was required to survive. In other words, the issues of compassion, conservation, and nutrition were all part of the equation when there were no life-saving interventions if you didn't feed yourself right.

Also, if she's so into animal welfare, how can she be so cruel to other people?

Edited by: RHEYNKLAW at: 3/22/2013 (23:23)
Rheyn

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IMVEGAN's Photo IMVEGAN Posts: 2,893
3/22/13 10:07 P

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EvelynF, Her post seems to look down on people who are not vegans for compassion sake ONLY. She says it over and over. Veganism is about being compassionate to the animals and the environment. She says we need to return to THOSE roots.

She herself infers (really it is stronger than an inference) that if you are not a vegan for animal's sake you are some how "less than" and missing the mark.

I do agree that there are many different ways to be animal free.... I say wonderful! We are a diverse group. More animals get to live. I would agree with her if the point of her article is that we as HUMANS should be kinder to each other. But I think she missed the mark here.

Edited by: IMVEGAN at: 3/22/2013 (22:07)
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EVELYNF's Photo EVELYNF SparkPoints: (14,619)
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3/22/13 8:22 P

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Did I misunderstand the blog post? I thought that was her point?



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BILBY4's Photo BILBY4 SparkPoints: (45,863)
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3/22/13 6:09 P

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This is silly. Heinous popery most foul.
Suppose there was litter on a beach. Some was cleaned up by schoolkids on an outing who were told to do it by a teacher. Some was cleaned up by a local resident who walks there in the evening, because she cares. Some was cleaned up a photographer because he wanted a smooth section of beach for his photo. Some was cleaned up by the council because they pay a contractor to do it. In the end does it matter? The beach is clean and the way it should be, and various people with different motives were involved.


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SWEETMAGNOLIA2's Photo SWEETMAGNOLIA2 SparkPoints: (92,882)
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3/22/13 5:50 P

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When I became a vegetarian over 35 years ago I wasn't even aware of the cruelty to the animals in the meat industry. I just wanted to have optimal health and be free of sickness and disease that comes from eating flesh foods. As time passed I became more convinced dairy and eggs were not so safe anymore. I try to stay informed and share with others a lifestyle of preventative "medicine". As a nurse I know there are people literally dying for lack of knowledge. People come into the health message through different avenues and I respect those whose introduction to veganism had to do with the plight of the poor animals. As we share with others "something better" hopefully we and the animals all benefit.

Edited by: SWEETMAGNOLIA2 at: 3/22/2013 (22:50)
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IMVEGAN's Photo IMVEGAN Posts: 2,893
3/22/13 4:39 P

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Me thinks she is doing the same thing with this article that she is blaming others of doing. I guess those of us who came to veganism by the way of a dietary interest are not pure enough for her?????

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MARIANNEARC's Photo MARIANNEARC SparkPoints: (775)
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3/22/13 3:43 P

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There seem to be as many different "reasons" to be vegan as there are vegans. Are the ethical reasons really uniting vegans any longer? Have they ever? I'm new to this so what do you longtime herbavores think?
I agree with the author "that being mindful and smart with our messaging has got to be our priority as effective advocates. When we use the same kind of righteous indignation for potatoes or olive oil that we do for violence against animals and the planet, something has gone haywire with our priorities."

"He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has." - Epictetus


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BONIDALE's Photo BONIDALE SparkPoints: (23,660)
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3/22/13 3:26 P

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I just read this article that I think you might find interesting and which I think should generate some interesting dialogue... veganfeministagitator.blogspot.ca/20
13
/02/the-slippery-slope-of-nutritionaR>l.html
Your thoughts?

Boni
Co-Leader Vegan Fitness and Nutrition

"There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going." Anon
"Finishing is winning."
"Treat everone you meet as if they have a sign around their neck, "Make me feel important."


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