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GEMINIGEM6's Photo GEMINIGEM6 SparkPoints: (21,094)
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5/30/13 2:15 A

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Thanks Birgit! :)


"It is never too late to be what you might have been."
George Eliot



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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,169
5/29/13 7:52 P

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Sounds like great progress to me! emoticon

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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GEMINIGEM6's Photo GEMINIGEM6 SparkPoints: (21,094)
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5/29/13 6:33 P

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Thanks everyone for your advice, as always. :) I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing right now, and like Russell said, as long as the scale keeps moving in the right direction (and I'll add to that as long as I feel well also) then I must be doing something right. :) It's still going down. As of this morning I am at 7lbs lost. I started this on the 21st. So I'd say that's pretty good. I'm finding I'm not as hungry as I was when I first started also. :)

Edited by: GEMINIGEM6 at: 5/30/2013 (02:15)

"It is never too late to be what you might have been."
George Eliot



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NAYPOOIE's Photo NAYPOOIE Posts: 6,105
5/29/13 1:35 P

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Suzanneyea, I amazed that you can eat that much. Half a pound and I'm stuffed to the gills, and I stay that way for hours.

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SUZANNEYEA's Photo SUZANNEYEA Posts: 4,342
5/29/13 10:14 A

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Russel, you only eat a pound of meat a day? I feel like a pig, I eat two or two and a half pounds a day

BUDGETMAW Posts: 2,609
5/29/13 7:51 A

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That business about feeling full sounds great, Russell, but it doesn't necessarily work. It doesn't for me, anyway.

RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
5/28/13 4:30 P

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LOL, Suzanne. That is what I did at the start. I just ate, and ate, and couldn't stop losing. It sounds more complicated than it is. I eat X amount of grams of protein, and carbs, and the majority is fat. If my protein drops, the fat goes up. By now I know I am going to eat about 1 lb of meat a day, and just count the carbs.

The # 1 sign that you are doing well is always the scale. It may not be going down day to day, but if it goes up, then there is a problem. I think once you are in ketosis, that you won't overeat because you feel full, and it's true that if you just eat to that point, you will probably do well.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,169
5/28/13 11:21 A

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If you don't want to worry about calories, carb levels, protein levels etc. you can also use more of a paleo eating plan: eat all the veggies you are hungry for either raw, steamed or cooked in coconut oil or butter. Eat all the meat and eggs you are hungry for. Eat some nuts and some full-fat dairy if they agree with you. You have the whole rest of your life to figure out the details. But just by folllowing these simple rules you will avoid all processed foods, all grains, all sugars, all beans and all artificial coloring and flavoring. If you can afford try to make most of what you eat organic or naturally raised.
I've tweaked my eating plan at least 50 times since I started low-carb and still am, but the tweaks get smaller and smaller.
And most of all: enjoy exploring new foods and make it a fun journey, not something to worry about. Even if you never count a calorie or protein or carb again you will probably be healthier than you were ever before just by following the principles but ignore the many small rules that are helpful to some of us. emoticon

Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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SUZANNEYEA's Photo SUZANNEYEA Posts: 4,342
5/28/13 9:42 A

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I love you Russell, but that sounds way too complicated for me. I am going to stick with the eat until full plan!

RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
5/28/13 9:08 A

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Gemini. It is very simple. You currently eat around a certain range of protein, and after starting low carb, it probably bumped up to about 30-35%, but is also a certain # of grams. I count protein they way I do carbs.

I aim for just under 50 grams of carbs, and 150 g of protein, and the majority of my calories come from fat. Figure out what 30 or 35% of your calories look like, and just get close to that number with your meat sources. Most meat has more fat calories than protein calories.

Let's say that you eat 1500 calories, so 450 should be 30%, and is 112 grams of protein. So you eat 100-120 a day, and then whatever carbs, and the rest should be fat. You may have to add some oil to get to 1500, but that is why you should be pre-planning your menu. Then you just wake up, click on your tracker, and eat the food.

The #1 thing is Gemini.. you have already lost 4-5 lbs, so whatever you are eating is working. It may be water weight this week, but to lose 5 lbs. of water weight, means you are on the right track, Just eat the same amount of carbs,protein, and fat, and see if you lose 2-3 during the next week. If you lose 6-8 lbs in the first 2 weeks, you are doing it right, and don't need to change anything. The warnings were for you just to not eat 50% protein, since excess protein CAN be converted to glucose. Some things to think about, not panic about..lol. I wouldn't worry about these issues until I stopped losing weight for a week.

emoticon

Edited by: RUSSELL_40 at: 5/28/2013 (09:10)
"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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BUDGETMAW Posts: 2,609
5/28/13 6:51 A

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Honest, Gemini, it's not that hard! I think we're making it sound a lot worse than it really is because we want to give you the absolute "best" most precise answers to your questions.

One of the programs - I think it's either Protein Power or The Zone - talks about "blocks." You have so many "blocks" of protein at each meal, and so many blocks of carbs and so many blocks of fat. Once you know what makes up a block, it's pretty easy. You can adapt that to any of the low carb plans.

The original Atkins program did that. You ate a cup of salad with lunch and a cup with supper and ate eggs and meat for the rest of it and called it good. That was for the first couple of weeks. Then you added 5 carbs a day for a week, and then another 5 carbs the next week. Once you knew what made up 5 carbs, you were set.

Don't make this any more complicated than you are willing for it to be. Don't worry about fat and protein percentages to begin with. Learn how many carbs there are in the veggies that you eat the most often, and limit those. Stay away from the nuts and fruits until you are comfortable with the veggies, then learn how much fruit you can have and which kinds. You may not need to weigh and measure your veggies as long as you stick with the low carb ones. Cheese, nuts, fruits and dairy you may need to be more careful with until you get a feel for them.

Truly, your best bet is to pick a plan and follow it, instead of getting our advice that is frequently much more precise and exacting than it needs to be!

SUZANNEYEA's Photo SUZANNEYEA Posts: 4,342
5/28/13 5:53 A

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I do not believein counting or percentages, personally. I just eat until full, then stop. I do this three times a day. If you under eat at one meal, it is not the end of the world if you are hungry for an hour. Hunger will not kill you.
After time, you get it down and know what you eat at each meal in terms of portions.

GEMINIGEM6's Photo GEMINIGEM6 SparkPoints: (21,094)
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5/28/13 1:39 A

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This just seems complicated having to think about percentages and everything being just so. I didn't want to count calories and proteins and all that like I did in the past. I lost weight before just by counting calories and portion control. It gets exhausting after months of keeping up with up w/ every little thing that goes in your mouth. That was another plus for me when I considered low carb. Now it seems I'm still gonna have to keep up w/ everything just the same.

Thank you to everyone for your advice. Like you said Birgit, I am gonna have to fine tune this. This is more complicated than I anticipated. As someone who has had weight issues since I was around 11.....I'm so tired of thinking about it period. Sigh.


"It is never too late to be what you might have been."
George Eliot



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434TERESA's Photo 434TERESA SparkPoints: (2,501)
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5/28/13 12:50 A

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Now as to portion control for me its a must. I have been in a three almost 4 week stall, now the book says not to worry until its been 4 weeks. So I have started making sure that my portion are just so so and I lowered my calories for I was eating a little more than the book says. I was not counting calories until I needed to, and went back to add a few days up to find I was going over the calories the book says to aim for so I lowered them also,portion control is one way of doing that.

I believe that you need to follow the book and that to only count carbs and eat until you are full when you start out and until you have problems that need to be looked into, then you need to do what the book tell you to on that matter and one thing is to then count your calories.

This is the link to the Atkins website. even tho I dont fully do it the atkins way anymore I do still eat from the atkins food list/eat. I just count carbs different than they do.
community.atkins.com/Registration.as
px?mcid=atkhpbannerlg


Watch this about the atkins program.

us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?
p=dr+westman+diet&hspart=att&hsimp=yhs
-att_001&type=att_lego_portal_home


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434TERESA's Photo 434TERESA SparkPoints: (2,501)
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5/28/13 12:44 A

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GEMINIGEM6 don't be scared. If you are going to do Atkins just read one of the books and jump in and follow the rules as to what the book says. Then if you hit a stall with your weight loss you will have to change a few things to make the program yours, that is what others have to do also but what works for them may not work for you that's why you need to read and follow the book for the first few weeks, then tweak it to make it your own IF you need to. One of the books even says something like that but I don't know which one right off hand, I think its the Dr Atkins new diet revolution but I am not sure(wal-mart marked down to $5).

This is the link to the Atkins website. even tho I dont fully do it the atkins way anymore I do still eat from the atkins food list/eat. I just count carbs different than they do.
community.atkins.com/Registration.as
px?mcid=atkhpbannerlg


Watch this about the atkins program.

us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?
p=dr+westman+diet&hspart=att&hsimp=yhs
-att_001&type=att_lego_portal_home


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,169
5/28/13 12:17 A

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Don't worry, we all make mistakes. Even with allowing for some mistakes you will likely still see improvement with blood sugar issues pretty quickly. It takes a while for anyone to fine-tune so consider this an experiment of one. emoticon emoticon

Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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GEMINIGEM6's Photo GEMINIGEM6 SparkPoints: (21,094)
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5/27/13 11:11 P

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Thanks everyone. Now I'm nervous I'm gonna end up not doing it right and defeat the purpose. The main reason I decided to do it is b/c I have insulin resistance. I don't want anything turning to sugar that doesn't have to. Lol.


"It is never too late to be what you might have been."
George Eliot



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LIVINMYDREAMS's Photo LIVINMYDREAMS Posts: 3,499
5/27/13 9:25 P

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Just an FYI, the spark nutrition tracker works really well to see your percentages. Toward the bottom of the page you can click on see daily report or something like that and it will show a pie chart with percentages.

Faith
RTKR - 6/23/11 - 305
Sept 2011 - 315
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Jan 1st 2014- 231
Jan 1st 2015 - goal Onederland !!!**************************** One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar!


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,169
5/27/13 9:22 P

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Moderate protein is good, I personally don't go by percentages for protein but by total grams, about 70-80 for most people who are not body builders, some people will get 100 grams and do fine.
Protein that your body does not use will be turned into sugar, that's the reason to keep it moderate, but not low.
Choose full-fat dairy, fattier cuts of meat or leaner cuts of meat with fat added (like cooking in coconut oil or butter) or add lots of olive oil to your salad or have triple cream brie cheese as an appetizer. Nuts are also a great source of fat so you can cook your meat in a "breading" of ground nuts and egg sometimes.
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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BUDGETMAW Posts: 2,609
5/27/13 9:10 P

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Gemini, the easiest way to get to about those percentages is just to eat roughly the same number of grams of fat and protein. Since fat has more calories per gram (9 to 4), it comes out about right.

GEMINIGEM6's Photo GEMINIGEM6 SparkPoints: (21,094)
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5/27/13 8:43 P

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Thanks EWEFLUFFY. Ugh it's all so detailed and broken down. I have no idea what my percentages are right now. Lawd. Lol.

Also, can you give examples of meals that would mean higher fat and lower protein? I don't know how to lower the protein when I'm having to eat meat basically at every meal just to get full. I couldn't live on veggies alone. That's not gonna happen. Thanks in advance.

Edited by: GEMINIGEM6 at: 5/27/2013 (20:45)

"It is never too late to be what you might have been."
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KICK-SS's Photo KICK-SS Posts: 9,583
5/27/13 8:26 P

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Gemini, Higher protein yes, but not to extreme. The misconception about Atkins and other low carb diets sometimes is to load up on protein... and then, if you do too much, some of that does produce more insulin. If you stay somewhere around 30-35% of your diet in protein, you'll do fine. Much less carbs 5-10%, and make up the difference with eating more fat in your diet - Your fat consumption should be about 70-75% of your daily intake. And if you feel "hungry" get something with higher fat rather than adding more proteins..

Fat, even saturated, does not cause weight gain IF you keep the carbs low. But the two in high amounts together will cause problems - you have to make the choice of more carbs or more fat. Personally, I'll do the more fat any day!

All of that being said - I do try and keep total calories to about 1200 per day.

These are my opinions and how I work, of course, everyone has different thoughts.

Edited by: KICK-SS at: 5/27/2013 (20:28)
Betty

EWEFLUFFY IS NOW KICK-SS

TODAY IS THE TOMORROW YOU WORRIED ABOUT YESTERDAY. GET ON WITH IT!!

BEFORE YOU CAN START A NEW CHAPTER - YOU HAVE TO FIRST TURN THE PAGE!




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GEMINIGEM6's Photo GEMINIGEM6 SparkPoints: (21,094)
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5/27/13 8:09 P

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Wait, Birgit, you said that a low carb high protein diet will produce more insulin and cause storage of fat?? I thought that's what low carb was. Low carbs and higher protein and fat??

Edited by: GEMINIGEM6 at: 5/28/2013 (01:52)

"It is never too late to be what you might have been."
George Eliot



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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,169
5/27/13 3:41 P

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There are so many possible issues here. I have found that any amount of sugar will throw off my mineral balance which will cause me to be hungry because my body tries to balance minerals. This is why eating very high quality produce, ideally homegrown on good, mineral-rich soils, makes so much difference.
I just saw this blog posts by Jimmy Moore about this:
livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/hair-ana
ly
sis-reveals-mineral-deficiencies-toxR>ic-metals/18425?utm_source=feedburne
r&
utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Fe
ed%3A+
LivinLaVidaLowCarbBlog+%28Ji
mmy+Moore%
27s+Livin%27+La+Vida+Low
+Carb+Blog%29&
utm_content=Yahoo!+Mail


Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
5/27/13 1:42 P

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Usually when I am hungry, I eat less food. If I forced myself to eat more calories, then yes, I would not lose weight.

My point was not that you can eat more calories and not gain weight. It was that you aren't as hungry, and that most people eat less when they aren't hungry, and so they lose weight, without thinking about portions.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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BUDGETMAW Posts: 2,609
5/27/13 1:18 P

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Not necessarily true, Russell, though that is pretty much the conventional low carb wisdom. I have gone zero carb (meat and egg fast) several times, and have either not lost or have gained while doing it. And that's with no processed meats, so that's not the culprit. Yes, I was probably eating more calories while doing it, but not a lot more. And while I wasn't hungry, that was due to my portion sizes.

RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
5/27/13 11:35 A

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I think portion control is tied to carb levels. If you have 0 carbs, you don't need it, if you eat 300, you probably need to be tied down to stay away from the fridge.

Under 50 carbs, you don't feel hungry, so you don't eat as much. I find it hard to get close to 2000 calories. I have to add in Tbsp.'s of oil, or a 1/2 cup of cheese, just to make it. Protein isn't really that high in calories. Half a pound of b/s chicken thighs is just 340 calories. An egg is just 70 calories. I consume 1/4 stick of butter, 1-2 Tbsp. oil daily to make meals around 600 calories.

Over 150 carbs, and I use portion control like this: I will limit myself to 6 items from Taco Bell, for 4th meal, even though I ate 2000 calories in my other 3 meals. Won't count the snacks, or this meal. Since I'm not counting, I will portion control myself 2 brownies, and a liter of Pepsi. At 2 a.m., I will only portion control myself a medium serving of self-loathing

What really does it for me is also fat %. I can predict what I will lose daily, by how high I up my fat %, and how low the total carbs are in my diet. 50 grams of carbs, with 50% fat, and I may lose .2-.4 lbs. Cut that to 25 grams of carbs, and 75% fat, and I will lose over a lb a day.
I know fat satiates, but I keep my calories in a tight range of 1800-2000 most days, so if a calorie, is a calorie, why the difference?

That is what people on " normal " diets will say. A calorie, is a calorie. That's why they all eat 1200 calories, and pretend they feel full.. or say they eat 1200 anyways. I used to eat 4000-5000 calories a day, and never feel full.

In short, low carb is it's own portion control. Just eat when actually hungry, and your body has a set point. I used to eat 2,,600 calories a day when I started, and now it's around 1,900. I didn't plan that, just didn't want to eat as much. If I want to, I can add another 500 calories, but this usually only happens when I lose a lot of weight, and I think my body just is making an adjustment. At these times, I just eat meat. That's my new 4th meal. 6 chicken legs, instead of 6 bean burritos.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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KICK-SS's Photo KICK-SS Posts: 9,583
5/26/13 8:53 P

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I do have to keep my calories in the neighborhood of 1200 per day, regardless of whether it's low carb, no carb or lotsa carb... My body just doesn't lose that fast. Although with the low carb (less than 50) I feel satisfied and not hungry and I can't say that if I eat too many carbs, then I'm climbing the walls and looking for more........ So I try to stay away from that way of eating.

Betty

EWEFLUFFY IS NOW KICK-SS

TODAY IS THE TOMORROW YOU WORRIED ABOUT YESTERDAY. GET ON WITH IT!!

BEFORE YOU CAN START A NEW CHAPTER - YOU HAVE TO FIRST TURN THE PAGE!




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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,169
5/26/13 4:19 P

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Rebecca,
sorry, I sometimes forget on which team I'm posting. This is not the diabetes team.
There is a very useful blood test that is called Hemogobin A1 c (HA1c) test which allows us to know how high our blood sugar levels were over the previous 3 months and depending on the results people are either in the normal range (under 5.7), the pre-diabetic range (5.7-6.3) or in the diabetic range (6.4 and higher). This is a very useful test for anyone to have when blood work is done at your doctor's office.
Berberine is a supplement that has gotten popular to lower blood sugar levels and I don't know much about it. Probably google it to learn more. I believe it does not have the side effects of diabetes meds, but don't know how effective it is.
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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MOXIE6's Photo MOXIE6 Posts: 580
5/26/13 8:57 A

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Birgit, can you explain the scientific stuff there? A1c and Berberine?

I have no health issues and didn't even have diabetes when I was morbidly obese and pregnant with twins. So my sensitivity is really puzzling.

Thanks, Rebecca

I am starting my ticker again since starting low carb....in the home strech!
You have no control over what you weigh...only what you do.
Progress NOT Perfection!


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,169
5/25/13 11:57 A

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Interesting point about portions-control where the portions can be too small. It makes perfect sense, but is something that has never occurred to me, given my typical eating style of usually eating a lot, LOL.
Moxie,
I just read Jimmy Moore's report on his one year of ketosis experiment again, and while he did not say that he reduces calories a lot it did seem that his weight loss was very slow and only with very consistent exercise, so I suspect that different people will improve insulin sensitivity to different degrees and at different rates. He did manage to get his A1c down to 4.3, almost unheard of, but may have done this by taking Berberine (Glycosolve).
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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MOXIE6's Photo MOXIE6 Posts: 580
5/25/13 7:47 A

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I think it must be a very individual thing. Unfortunately, I'm one of the ones that does not lose weight with out going down on calories too at this stage of weight loss. Having done the Fat Fast I've found that I lose on 1200 calories. Even when I eat a Fat Fast or LC diet but am higher in calories I maintain or gain depending on the number of calories.

Secondly, there is hunger and then there is hunger. It can be different at different times for different people. That was one eye opener for me. It took a lot of shame from me when I read in a book that hunger is different for different people, but I would add that it can change within a person as well. I've found that to be the case for me. Low carb has been extremely helpful in that regard. I've told folks even if I don't get to goal (20 more pounds or so) I will continue low carb because hunger is much more under control.

On this entire journey since I started with Dr. Oz 5 years ago the more I've learned about how our and my body functions has taken a load of guilt and shame off of me. I think there are probably some universals and then a lot of fine tuning!

I am starting my ticker again since starting low carb....in the home strech!
You have no control over what you weigh...only what you do.
Progress NOT Perfection!


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BUDGETMAW Posts: 2,609
5/25/13 6:35 A

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Portion control of what? I guess I agree with you, though I wouldn't have put it in those words. As long as I eat low carb (definitely less than 50 net carbs per day, more like 40 or so), how many calories doesn't seem to matter, unless I go too low. about 1800 calories per day seems to work for me. I don't pay particular attention to the fat/protein ratio, but probably average about 100 grams of protein per day. If I go below that, I don't lose.

SUZANNEYEA's Photo SUZANNEYEA Posts: 4,342
5/25/13 6:26 A

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Does not seem to make a huge difference to me. If I eat until full, I weigh about 105 to 110. If I eat till stuffed, I might get to 115. If I restrict my eating, I go to 100, but gain it back very quickly.

HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,169
5/25/13 1:54 A

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This topic comes up from time to time and I'm curious what opinions are on this issue.
My own take is this:
On a ketogenic diet (usually under 50 grams of carbs) that is high-fat but not high-protein I believe that portion-control is completely unnecessary. In the absence of most carbs it is no more likely to gain weight than to gain height. It is all regulated by hormones, even if we overeat, which is not likely because of the appetite-suppressing effect of eating higher fat.
On a somewhat higher carb diet, between 50 and 150 grams/day I think that some portion control may be necessary to keep from over-eating because appetite control is not a given. Also, diets that are low-carb but higher in protein can cause significant insulin production and therefore fat storage because of unneeded protein being turned into sugar in the liver.
What do you think?
Birgit
P.S. I am considering asking a similar question on the message boards because I think it would be interesting to see how the low-carb concepts are viewed by the spark community in general at this point.

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 5/25/2013 (01:58)
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