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MINUS7's Photo MINUS7 Posts: 132
11/17/07 9:35 A

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i stay away from soy, i definitely feel lousy and my allergies flare up when i eat it:(
you can substitute beans for meat anyday...they have so much nutrition(iron, calcium, protein, b's, minerals) and you can make burgers and loafs out of them, just make them in bulk and freeze a few. make sure yourself and family are getting enough b vitamins tho, especially b12:)
i eat organic turkey and lamb, buying it in ground form and adding it to soups or spaghetti or on top of salads...its less expensive that way
coconut has essential electrolytes like potassium, magnesium, and is more akin to the make up of blood, i think they used to use it for IVs for rehydration.
soy is probably only beneficial in fermented form, miso and tempeh
goat milk is best for babies! low lactose and no hormone effect
i dont think eating any of these things occasionally will hurt but but moderation is definitely the key:)

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NITAINMN's Photo NITAINMN Posts: 7,583
9/22/07 12:36 P

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Here's a spark news article!

http://www.sparkpeople.com/resource/heal
th_news_detail.asp?health_day=605630

I was asked to drink a cup of soy milk daily to get rid of my pre-menopausal symptoms and help with insomnia. It worked great for me, I sleep 8 hours like a baby! Hot flashes, I am not so sure......

since my meds do too!



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Samasta Loka Sukhino Bhavantu" - Sanskrit translates to "Let all the worlds be happy!"

www.radiosai.org/Home.asp
www.saicast.org/serviceprojects.htm


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REVVELL's Photo REVVELL Posts: 11
7/17/07 11:50 A

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Personally, I stay away from soy products. I can do without the hot flushes I get immediately while/after eating them.

Hey rawcurls and abeedabu!!! :D

Revvell


Edited by: REVVELL at: 7/17/2007 (12:17)
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http://www.Revvellations.com
ANGELIAKAY Posts: 916
6/25/07 12:42 P

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The only thing with soy that worries me is all the phytoestrogens and our kids. With all the HGH's and BGH and other GH's I worry about it causing unnatural growth. We eat a lot of whole and organics as much as possible. When my oldest daughter was 9, now 14, her nipples started to bleed and the dr said it was from all the hormones in food and the soy didn't help. I limit our soy intake as much as possible. We do some tofu, but not much.

The Angie theory of life.

The glass is always half full....it all depends on the angle you look at the glass.


 
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VAMPRYIXIE Posts: 9
6/22/07 12:02 A

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Typically soy really is better. Very little if any fat or cholesteral in most soy products and its pretty versatile. If you can adapt your family to vegetarian meals you can add soy products here or there and slowly get them used to the taste. If protein becomes an issue they sell various protein powders soy or otherwise that can be used to make some kid friendly treats.

As far as the negatives to soy, I've read up on this subject. From what I've seen typically you have to consume MASSIVE AMOUNTS of soy in order to see any side affects. It has to be a primary staple in your diet, some people eat alot of soy but even someone who eats it 3 meals a day might have a hard time reaching the "documented levels"

My family wont really eat most of my "health food" vegetarian or otherwise. I understand its a process.

If you've gotten them on board this far your doing super!

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MADDIEMCWA's Photo MADDIEMCWA Posts: 1,718
6/13/07 8:55 P

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I find this topic interesting too. I'm pretty new to soy products, so I'd like to learn more about processed vs. traditional. I agree with wild-caught salmon and grass-fed animals.

Madeline
Forever Healthy Me!

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ABEEDABU's Photo ABEEDABU SparkPoints: (0)
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Posts: 16
6/12/07 12:54 A

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Hiya, this topic is interesting to me. I don't really eat any soy products, but the whole meat vs. processed thing. And the idea of getting a WHOLE buncha one particular food, like every day. Just guestimating from laywoman research I would rank your meat options thus:

Homemade veg burgers (various nuts, grains, seeds)
Wild-caught fish
Local organic chicken
Grassfed beef
Soy analogues
SAD Chicken
SAD Beef

As far as dairy, I can never figure out why people drink cow/goat milk OR soy. Sesame seed and almond milks are in another league nutritionally, TASTE better, and are super quick to make with any blender & a mesh bag.

Have you considered wild-caught (pacific) fish? Or do they not go for fish?

 
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GREENMAMA's Photo GREENMAMA Posts: 1,426
2/23/07 8:12 A

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Vera,

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I read the tone of my original post and it did sound harsher than I meant it to. Sorry about that!

Glad to meet another mama who supports bfding.

Marjorie

"You must be the change you wish to see." Gandhi



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NOFAUXFOOD Posts: 404
2/21/07 10:05 P

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Marjorie,

Sorry for the misunderstaning. I was addressing Sarah's concern about her 1 year old son and soy milk . . . . I was NOT advocating using coconut milk instead of breast milk, but instead of soy.

I agree whole heartedly with you that breast milk is the best for our babies and in fact nursed all my children and was a wet nurse for a friend's baby when she was unable to breast feed.

Sorry for the confusion.

Vera

"Let nothing which can be treated by diet be treated by other means" Maimonides



SW 02/11/02: 202#
GW 11/2002: 164#
CW 05/16/06: 140.6
KATIEDIVINA's Photo KATIEDIVINA Posts: 171
2/21/07 4:18 P

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Greenmama- I wholeheartedly agree with you that traditional soy products are healthy.

The Chinese and Japanese have been drinking soy milk and eating tempeh and tofu for thousands of years. It's a regular part of their diets and they have some of the healthiest and long-lived populations in the world. Over there you don't see any fear that "estrogen" in soy will feminize males, etc!
What most scares me about American food culture is our obsession with breaking down whole foods into tiny, isolated components. We test these components for healthy or unhealthiness or process parts of different foods into a nice packaged "food". It's not really the "Vitamin A" that's good for you, it's the carrot!
But I'm preaching to the converted here. :P

For me it comes down to this:
Soy beans and all traditional soy products = Great
Soy isolates, Genetically modified soy products, mock meats, soy protein powders, etc = Most likely bad




 
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GREENMAMA's Photo GREENMAMA Posts: 1,426
2/21/07 3:17 P

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Vera,

Coconut milk=breastmilk? Sounds like a dangerous experiment to me!

One of the most important things about breastmilk is the live antibodies it contains which help protect the baby from diseases.

For a mother who is truly concerned about the health of her infant and is unable to breastfeed it would be beneficial to seek out local mothers willing to donate their breastmilk. Trust me, it can be done! However, it would probably be advisable to have donor moms take an HIV test.

The WHO recommends donor mother's milk as the preferred substitute for breastfeeding. However, most people in the U.S. find that shocking and don't
go there.

Marjorie

"You must be the change you wish to see." Gandhi



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GREENMAMA's Photo GREENMAMA Posts: 1,426
2/21/07 3:11 P

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Rawcurls,

I am very surprised that you would consider eating animal products at all after reading the China Study. There are many groups who push a pro-meat agenda who have attempted to "criminalize" the soybean by using nutritional information taken out of context or by looking at studies that talk about formula. (Nothing is good for a baby except mother's milk...)

While I do agree that highly-processed soy is a no-no, traditional soy foods are absolutely much healthier than meat.

Here are some links to check out

http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/hea
lthy-food-too-much-soy.html

http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/davis
_soy_safe.htm

http://www.vegsource.com/articles/soy_up
date.htm

If you are going to eat a significant amount of soy products (as they do in Japan, with no ill effects), it is good to get some naturally-occuring iodine, such as that found in seaweed.



"You must be the change you wish to see." Gandhi



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NOFAUXFOOD Posts: 404
2/20/07 11:26 A

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Sarah,

I just recently read that coconut milk (not coconut water) has the same chemical makeup as breast milk? Has anyone else heard about that? I wonder if that would be a suitable substitute?

Vera

"Let nothing which can be treated by diet be treated by other means" Maimonides



SW 02/11/02: 202#
GW 11/2002: 164#
CW 05/16/06: 140.6
NOFAUXFOOD Posts: 404
2/20/07 11:24 A

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Rawcurls,

I don't have any definitive answer for you but I'll share the opinion from my 90 year old Dad. He and my 85 yo mom still live alone in their own home. Their childhoods were similar, as they both grew up in poor farming families.

My grand dad couldn't afford to buy chemical fertilizers so continued growing their crops w/o the chems and added animal manure.

I grew up (I'm almost 57) in an organic household . . . Daddy gardened and mom cooked from scratch, even making homemade bread.

Anyway - I guess this is my introduction to the group and I also wanted to give you a little background about my dad. At age 90 he STILL says, "We wouldn't feed soy to any of the animals . . . I'm sure not going to eat it!" Is he right? I don't know. But he and Momma can still walk a 17 minute mile . . . not too bad for folks their ages!

Vera - who promises to not ALWAYS be so long-winded!

"Let nothing which can be treated by diet be treated by other means" Maimonides



SW 02/11/02: 202#
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CW 05/16/06: 140.6
RAWCURLS's Photo RAWCURLS Posts: 71
2/13/07 3:26 P

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That's a great idea.

I love that the book is cheap enough to give as gifts. I've already gifted my MIL with it along with a low fat vegan recipe book.

I recall something about 10% being the recommended amount (I guess the grams depend on how many calories are taken in) although it was stated that most people on a vegan diet will get sufficient amounts at 5-6%

I am currently in the process of following The 80/10/10 diet, which consists of a majority and abundance of fresh fruits, greens with a minimal amount of nuts and seeds. It goes by similar principles of fat and protein intake, with a high amount of carbs, as our bodies run on carbs.

However, since on a cooked diet, the carbs are coming from grains and other cooked starches like potatoes and corn, so with the raw vegan diet fruit is eaten for the carbs.

www.rawstepbystep.com


 
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KATIEDIVINA's Photo KATIEDIVINA Posts: 171
2/13/07 1:05 P

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Believe it or not I've been reading the China Study! (few pages at a time over the last few weeks)

It's really a breakthrough book. I generally keep my protein intake "low" as well (but more around 10-12%) but I find that hemp seeds in my morning shake keeps me satisfied for a long while after.
I haven't finished the book so I might be a little unclear, but did they find that even with diets as high as 20% plant protein (no animal protein) the cancer development rate was significantly lower than those who have 10-15% animal protein? Perhaps we should start a thread about the book...

 
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RAWCURLS's Photo RAWCURLS Posts: 71
2/12/07 2:19 P

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Thank you Katie - I actually am not concerned at all about my protein intake. Science has determined that we really need 3-5% protein ideally (read The China Study).

Fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds have the ideal amount of amino acids to help a body form adequate protein. I do have hemp seeds and make hemp milk ocassionally, but for me it's more of a taste thing, than a nutrient thing.

www.rawstepbystep.com


 
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KATIEDIVINA's Photo KATIEDIVINA Posts: 171
2/12/07 12:22 P

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Like some other people have mentioned here, traditional soy products are great--edamame, tempeh, tofu, miso, some kinds of soy milk...but I avoid the processed products these days because of the sodium and gluten and other junk that's in them.

Rawcurls--I've been seeing a holistic nutritionist and she recommended adding a non-soy vegan protein powder to my morning smoothies. That means rice or hemp protein. I really love the hemp protein I've been using--
It's just crushed up hemp seeds and it has lots of iron and 14g of protein in it. It's by Living Harvest and it's raw. You might like to try it!



 
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KATIEDIVINA's Photo KATIEDIVINA Posts: 171
2/12/07 12:18 P

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Like some other people have mentioned here, traditional soy products are great--edamame, tempeh, tofu, miso, some kinds of soy milk...but I avoid the processed products these days because of the sodium and gluten and other junk that's in them.

Rawcurls--I've been seeing a holistic nutritionist and she recommended adding a non-soy vegan protein powder to my morning smoothies. That means rice or hemp protein. I really love the hemp protein I've been using--
It's just crushed up hemp seeds and it has lots of iron and 14g of protein in it. It's by Living Harvest and it's raw. You might like to try it!



 
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RAWCURLS's Photo RAWCURLS Posts: 71
2/2/07 3:51 P

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Maybe I will start buying them meat instead of the soy products, I was also concerned about the other ingredients added - there's a whole list of them with Morningstar Farms, and the Gimme Lean is simpler, less fat but the main ingredient is isolated soy protein which I know is not health promoting.

I used to use soy protein powder in my smoothies many years ago. When I found out about soy isolates I stopped using it and just make my smoothies with fruit now.

However, I continued to buy the soy analogues for the family, which they'll use a few times a week. So I'm thinking now, I'll probably buy those turkey meats now. The smell gets to me, but this is probably the better option.

www.rawstepbystep.com


 
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BJS_GIRL's Photo BJS_GIRL Posts: 949
2/2/07 3:46 P

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You're welcome. I was just browsing the sparkteams and came across this one. I checked out the PCOS tesm because I was recently told I have PCOS and as I was browsing the topics I saw the soy post and after reading it, thought about this post and thought you might like to read it. I am really glad now that I don't eat a lot of it!

Kim

Mini goal #1: 210 by 6/11


 
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RAWCURLS's Photo RAWCURLS Posts: 71
2/2/07 3:42 P

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Thanks for the link. I have read some of that. We don't use a ton of soy, thank goodness.

I've never heard of natto either.

www.rawstepbystep.com


 
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BJS_GIRL's Photo BJS_GIRL Posts: 949
2/2/07 3:34 P

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Here is a a post I found here on SP, I thought you might want to read it...
http://tinyurl.com/yvwo3l


It is very interesting...


Kim

Mini goal #1: 210 by 6/11


 
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PSYMONETTA's Photo PSYMONETTA Posts: 865
2/1/07 1:39 P

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I avoid any soy product (with the occasional exception for steamed edamame) that isn't processed in a traditional fashion using fermentation or precipitation. So, tempeh is fine, tofu is fine, miso is fine, shoyu and tamari are fine in small quantities. Natto would be fine too...except I can't stand it. Anything that is "preciptatied" (ie tofu) needs to be eaten with meat...like fish stock.

I avoid all isolated soy protein products, soy derivatives, and most commercially produced soy milks.

This site explains some of the problems with ingesting unmediated soy products: http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/ploy.html

You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think. - Dorothy Parker


 
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RAWCURLS's Photo RAWCURLS Posts: 71
1/31/07 9:59 P

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Thanks - see there is where the problem lies.

They've been eating the Morningstar Farms soy meats and are used to them, they'll eat meat as well so they are open to either-or, however they are not interested in tofu or soy cheeses.

Actually I'd rather get some almond or rice cheese and shred it up, hiding it somewhere for them. LOL!

They don't eat this stuff every day, so maybe it's not a huge problem.

www.rawstepbystep.com


 
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RHONN1's Photo RHONN1 Posts: 12
1/31/07 9:28 P

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stick with simple soy products like tofu, or soy milk.

I'm not sure I trust the fake meats and soy cheeses. I think that's a little more "processing" than I want to process.

Do not aim to be perfect. Aim to be progressively less stupid. - Marshall Rosenberg


 
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MUZOMAMMA Posts: 684
1/31/07 3:19 P

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whoa! okay, i'm scared now. i'm giving my son soy milk rather than whole milk, because he's almost 1 and i am just not that crazy about milk. so far so good. he's still getting real dairy, so he doesn't become lactose intolerant.
for me, i eat things that are as natural as possible, whether meat or soy. translated: i stay away from additives where i can. if it's a piece of unprocessed chicken or a processed soy patty, i might just get the unprocessed chicken. that's just my thought.

--Sarah



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BJS_GIRL's Photo BJS_GIRL Posts: 949
1/31/07 12:21 P

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I guess I have noticed that if I do eat foods with a lot of soy in them I am more tired. I LOVE chinese food, but because of soy sauce and stuff they use in the food I don't eat it much, but when I do, depending on what I eat, I sometimes feel tired a little while later. I'm not sure what it does to the thyroid, but it does make a difference.
I never heard anything like that with the soy formula. My son had to be on soy formula since he was allergic to milk (until about 1yr), but nothing like that happened to him. That is good information to know though!!


Kim

Mini goal #1: 210 by 6/11


 
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RAWCURLS's Photo RAWCURLS Posts: 71
1/31/07 12:07 P

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A friend of mine was feeding her daughter a soy formula and noticed the daughter growing breasts. I also have friends who avoid soy because of their thyroids, because of the estrogen dominance. So I am not crazy about using a lot of soy for those reasons as well.

Did you feel a difference when you used soy and when you stop using it?

www.rawstepbystep.com


 
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BJS_GIRL's Photo BJS_GIRL Posts: 949
1/31/07 12:02 P

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I have hypothyroid so I can't eat things with a lot of soy, so eat meat myself.
(for any others out there with hypothyroid ~ this was something my husband read about and found out, not something that my dr cared to mention)
Sorry I can't be of more help!
Hugs and blessings!
Kim

Kim

Mini goal #1: 210 by 6/11


 
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RAWCURLS's Photo RAWCURLS Posts: 71
1/31/07 11:47 A

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I eat a predominately fresh plant food diet and I try to incorporate as much whole plant food into my family's diet as possible. I got a great book from the library called Vegan Family Favorites - this is the link http://www.vegfamily.com/ there's a ton of photos etc on there.

The only thing I'm not too wild about are most of the soy products.

It is a toss up between meat & dairy and soy because I don't think processed soy products are too healthy in the long run either.

My family will use some of the soy analogues in place of meat, but they also don't mind using certain things like the turkey sausages, etc. However it is often an issue finding all natural meat products as well. Then the soy is so processed and isolated that is not much better.

Does anyone have an opinion on which is better (or worse?). My family isn't ready to "give it all up" like I have so I'd like to go with the best option.

www.rawstepbystep.com


 
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