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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
10/6/12 3:03 P

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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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10/6/12 2:46 P

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For some reason I have not been getting emails when threads are posted to, so I'm sorry I didn't respond to request for research sooner.

Note these are studies from metabolic wards which I find a lot more credible than authors of books who are trying to sell books.

So I have at least 10 studies, but these three I found particularly relevant to this thread with the last one being relevant to TINAJANE's diabetes question.

Energy intake required to maintain body weight is not affected by wide variation in diet composition.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1734671

Weight-loss with low or high carbohydrate diet?
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8968851

Effect of high protein vs high carbohydrate intake on insulin sensitivity, body weight, hemoglobin A1c, and blood pressure in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15800559

RESULTS:
Both the high-carbohydrate and high-protein groups lost weight (-2.2+/-0.9 kg, -2.5+/-1.6 kg, respectively, P less than.05) and the difference between the groups was not significant (P =.9). In the high-carbohydrate group, hemoglobin A1c decreased (from 8.2% to 6.9%, P less than.03), fasting plasma glucose decreased (from 8.8 to 7.2 mmol/L, P less than.02), and insulin sensitivity increased (from 12.8 to 17.2 micromol/kg/min, P less than.03). No significant changes in these parameters occurred in the high-protein group, instead systolic and diastolic blood pressures decreased (-10.5+/-2.3 mm Hg, P =.003 and -18+/-9.0 mm Hg, P less than.05, respectively). After 2 months on these hypocaloric diets, each diet had either no or minimal effects on lipid levels (total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein, high-density lipoprotein), renal (blood urea nitrogen, serum creatinine), or hepatic function (aspartate aminotransferase, alanine aminotransferase, bilirubin).

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
10/2/12 12:34 P

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Statistics say that endurance exercise sucks.

HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,101
9/20/12 1:08 P

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There are statistics that say that about 25% of all tri-athletes are overweight or obese, including many that have been at it for a long time. This tells me that exercise is a factor, but not the biggest one.
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
9/20/12 11:54 A

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You have also all conveniently ignored activity level in your discussions. I'd be willing to bet that a high carbohydrate diet does not cause diabetes in anyone who is getting sufficient activity. Then again a population getting sufficient activity also, I wager, sustains significantly less obesity.

It all plays a part, and everything is linked up together, folks.

Cassava root starches are still starches. This won't be any different than eating lots of potato or grain. An argument could be made that sugars make a difference. However as has been stated, in the absence of overfeeding it's probably not a good argument. Go back and look at the Twinkie guy again.

What we really need is amphetamines. LOL.

VTRICIA's Photo VTRICIA Posts: 1,970
9/10/12 4:43 P

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Ratios of macronutrients are meaningless without total calorie intake, as overfeeding creates hyperinsulinemia as surely as high carb/high sugar. Low carb/high protein works insofar as it interferes with overfeeding. And the vast majority of humanity overfeeds when possible because that is just how we're wired to survive normal (pre 20th century) conditions.

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DONEGIRL's Photo DONEGIRL Posts: 57
9/9/12 6:45 A

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Houndlover. I'm sorry to disagree with you again but you are wrong. A high sugar diet (although it's not one I would recommend) does not lead to obesity unless you overeat. Look at the article cited by Brewmaster Bill. Eating 85% carbohydrate this population has NO diabetes, normal blood glucose and normal BMI. Low-carb eating may be effective for weight loss but it is not due to lower insulin. You keep ignoring these facts: protein also causes (in some cases an even higher) insulin response; insulin does not direct calories to fat unless we eat too much.

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?
page_id=319

Insulin is not the enemy overeating is!

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,101
9/8/12 9:11 P

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DONEGIRL,
you seem to be unaware of the fact that a high-sugar and high-grain diet not only lead to obesity in a large percentage of the population (probably over 50%), but also that many people have far more energy to exercise when eating low-carb because the less insulin is circulating in the body the more of the calories we consume go towards the muscles for fuel rather than to fat cells for storage.
TinaJane,
the best book on the topic in my opinion on how low-carb diets work is written by leading researchers in the field of low-carb nutrition and you can take a look at it here. It is well referenced for people who want to look up research studies on the topic.:


www.amazon.com/The-Art-Science-Carbo
hy
drate-Living/dp/0983490708


I also recommend the blog by Peter Attia, physician, researcher and successful endurance athlete whose personal story on his blog and his extremely well-written explanation of why
it's not just calories in-calories out as well as his detailed series about cholesterol are worth reading. You can find it here:
eatingacademy.com/my-personal-nutrit
io
n-journey


Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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DONEGIRL's Photo DONEGIRL Posts: 57
9/8/12 1:45 P

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TinaJane

Diabetes (Type 2) is mainly caused by being overweight for whatever reason. The CDC reports that 85% of Americans with diabetes are overweight or obese.

http://www.weightwatchers.com/util/art/i
ndex_art.aspx?tabnum=1&art_id=20851
This page has a link to a few good papers about diabetes. The NEJM paper (which is the highest ranked med research journal in the world) shows that the incidence of diabetes can be reduced by 58% by weight loss (low fat diet) and exercise. As far as I know there is no credible evidence that a healthy diet that includes carbs has a higher incidence of diabetes than low carb diets. Look at the epidemiological evidence -people who eat high carbs in Japan and China have a low incidence of diabetes and a low incidence of overweight and obesity.
Here's another link that debunks the theory that carbs are solely responsible for diabetes
http://carbsanity.blogspot.ie/2012/07/ob
esity-related-diabetes-how-gary.html
Be warned- it's hardcore science! emoticon


Edited by: DONEGIRL at: 9/8/2012 (13:46)
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DONEGIRL's Photo DONEGIRL Posts: 57
9/8/12 12:39 P

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No Houndlover this study is not just relevant to this group. Much of our biochemical knowledge especially the early work establishing the exact metabolic pathways were carried out on rats and mice and they remain true today because overall our pathways are the same. This is not a small study it has a lot of people included well over 1000.

You say 'It has been shown that in populations where sugar and grain consumption is high that metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes are very common.' It is dishonest of you not to add that it occurs in overweight and obese people -it's the fact that they are overweight that results in diabetes not the fact that they eat sugar. Yes this happens in the US for example but it is due to eating too much not due to eating sugar and grain- where else in the world is there a 32oz big gulp ( or even bigger)- it is obscene and it's no wonder that Americans are so overweight.


The industrialised diet can cause diabetes if you eat too much -that is the problem not the nature of the food- Type 2 diabetes most commonly occurs when you are obese whether that was due to overeating fat, protein or carbs. Type 2 diabetes rarely occurs in people who are not overweight, even if they only eat carbs, and when it does occur it appears to be due to a genetic mutation.

Edited by: DONEGIRL at: 9/8/2012 (12:40)
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TINAJANE76's Photo TINAJANE76 SparkPoints: (64,209)
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9/8/12 12:38 P

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I absolutely agree that poor dietary choices, including excessive amounts of sugar, have contributed to the high incidence of diabetes and metabolic syndrome among people in industrialized nations. I'm interested in what the difference in incidence of these conditions is between people who follow a diet with controlled amounts of whole grains and legumes vs. those who follow one that's free from both.

Birgit or Bill, have either of you come across studies on this?

My name's Tina. I lost more than 90 pounds between March 2010 and March 2012 and have been keeping if off ever since.

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,101
9/8/12 12:14 P

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This is only relevant to this people group. People in industrialized nations have dietary habits that are hugely different from eating cassava root. There are also Asian people groups who eat a lot of white rice without a high incidence of diabetes.
It has been shown that in populations where sugar and grain consumption is high that metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes are very common. It has also been shown that switching to a grain-free and legume-free diet will reverse these conditions. Whether consumption of cassava root causes diabetes in a small sample of people in Africa is not relevant to our situation because we don't eat cassava root, and nobody even argues that eating root vegetables alone will cause diabetes.
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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TINAJANE76's Photo TINAJANE76 SparkPoints: (64,209)
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9/8/12 11:34 A

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That's very interesting to me, particularly since adult-onset diabetes runs in my family. I've long suspected it wasn't so much what we eat but that we eat way too much of it that causes serious health problems like diabetes and heart disease. Has anyone encountered other studies that support this idea?

My name's Tina. I lost more than 90 pounds between March 2010 and March 2012 and have been keeping if off ever since.

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DONEGIRL's Photo DONEGIRL Posts: 57
9/8/12 7:22 A

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This is an interesting article and it's a fairly comprehensive debunking of the carbs causes diabetes theory -but will they listen? Thanks for posting this.

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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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9/7/12 3:06 P

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Absence of diabetes in a rural West African population with a high carbohydrate/cassava diet.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2882181

"This finding suggests that a high carbohydrate/cassava intake (84% of a mean daily supply of 1916 calories) combined with a low protein consumption (8% of caloric supply) does not cause diabetes"

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