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CTTAGENT's Photo CTTAGENT Posts: 1,620
9/2/10 1:23 A

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Building more muscle could help some too. I do not see the scale going down much, but I definitely see less fat.

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8/28/10 12:58 A

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That's great news Lenora! And as you lose the body weight towards your goal, you will need less and less lead as well!

Alex

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CTTAGENT's Photo CTTAGENT Posts: 1,620
8/27/10 3:38 A

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Catalina was very nice: a little murky, but still nice because we could see past the end of our hands. Over the 4 dives there, I went from 18 pounds to 14 pounds of weight. I started with 4 in each trim and 5 in each front pouch. I was still dragging feet on the first dive, so the next dive I moved the tank up on the BCD per the instructor's suggestion. I was still feeling heavy, feet doing better, but still low. So my next step was to drop some weight. I was leery to drop more than 2 pounds, but I went for dropping 2 pounds out of each side of the front since I wanted to have my weight better for the boat dives. That left me with 4 in each trim and 3 in each front pouch. The first dive we did on Friday I felt a lot better. The second dive was with the instructor, and he said I looked like my buoyancy was fine. YEAH! I may finally have the weight where it is good for the time being. I started my open water course using 28 pounds and 3 pounds in ankle weights; I am quite pleased to be at half that a year later.


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8/16/10 2:38 P

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Hi Lenora,

1) For a steel 100 (like the one I have), the air in it weights 8 lbs (in buoyancy): FULL: - 8.41 lbs EMPTY: - 0.59 lbs.

For the 80, it is a little over 6 lbs, as I said below.

So if you only used 1/3 of the air, you would still have 5 lbs of extra ballast on the tank that you do not have at the end of a long dive when the tank is almost empty (4 lbs extra on the 80). Do you understand these two calculations?

So on a short dive, you are basically using 4 or 5 lbs of compressed air as ballast in lieu of lead. :) If you develop a leak, or use more, it is equivalent to slowly dropping a weight. This is the reason why unless you are absolutely certain that you will only use 1000 PSI, and will abort a dive past that, in my mind, the proper buoyancy check is done on an almost empty tank at the end of the dive, in 15 ft of water, so you can perform an easy safety stop at the end of a long dive.

Have fun in Catalina. May the buoyancy be with you.

Alex

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CTTAGENT's Photo CTTAGENT Posts: 1,620
8/16/10 1:01 A

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Thanks Skacha.

I really do look forward to this upcoming weekend, and hopefully will have some nice pictures to share... more visibility. Catalina should be great. The boat/wreck dive looks like there is going to be at least 14 people, so that ought to be fun.

So if you don't hear from me until next Sunday, don't worry, that is when I will be back at home.

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SKACHA's Photo SKACHA Posts: 124
8/15/10 2:17 A

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Yay, congrats on the fresh water diving!

Alex, you're right, guess I had a bit of a dumb moment, oops - air weighs the same no matter what tank it's in!

Sorry to hear the viz stank, but it sounds like you made the most of it! Also sounds like you've got a couple of really fun trips planned for the next week, looking forward to the report.

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CTTAGENT's Photo CTTAGENT Posts: 1,620
8/14/10 10:55 P

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Thank you Alex. Each new dive we do is feeling good because we are conquering another dive.

1. We each went from 3000 to 2000 lbs for the dive. Mine is a steel 80 and his is a steel 100.

2. As far as gear, everything else was the same.

3. I know for me at 20 lbs at the ocean with the steel tank, I did good last month. This week we are going to Catalina and will use aluminum tanks. Then we are doing boat/wreck dives to the Yukon on Saturday with our steel tanks. I guess we will be doing more buoyancy work. It definitely would be nice to get to wear less weight.

An instructor told us that that Tahoe is a nice place to dive, so one day we will do that. We also were told about a place called Negro Bar that is supposed to be a nice place to dive also. We will check that place out also. Anybody ever dove there?

One dive at a time, we will get better. Everybody have a good evening/weekend.

Lenora

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8/12/10 5:21 P

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Congrats on your first freshwater dive!

1) Did you use the full tank, or it was just a short, couple minutes? As I wrote below, with a full 80 cu-ft tank, you need about 6 lbs less than with an empty tank. If your tanks are bigger than 80, like mine is, then you need even less to sink with a full tank. However, after you are done using it, you will float.

2) The hood and gloves removed some of the buoyancy. Did you remove any other items you usually wear at the ocean?

3) You may have also been over "weighted" in the ocean to begin. If you try again at the ocean with less weights, you may find that it is enough. If not, maybe you are more relaxed at the lake?

Lake Tahoe will usually have better vis than an arm-length. :)

Alex

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CTTAGENT's Photo CTTAGENT Posts: 1,620
8/12/10 12:53 P

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Well, we did it! Yesterday was the lake dive. It was a very warm day, the water felt nice enough just reaching over the side of the boat that we decided gloves were not needed. My husband decided to go without the hood either because he was already warm. We got all our gear set up before venturing into the wetsuits. The lake map said it should be about 40 feet where we were. Off the side of the boat we fell! Other than my mask strap coming loose, everything stayed in place.

We got to the anchor line, and slowly followed it down. Between the 10 and 20 feet it was taking longer for my ears to equalize, like they seem to do every dive. I ascended the little bit, then tried again, and then did fine. You could hardly see the rope beyond holding onto it, so we stayed right there. Followed the chain to the anchor, and the lake bottom felt like pudding that hadn't gelled completely yet, very weird feeling. That point was only 30 feet, so the map must have been done when the lake was fuller during the winter or spring.
We followed the rope back to the 15', and within a minute our guage read 20'. So we ascended again, and I held on tight.

When we got to the surface, we checked our buoyancy again... we both dropped. So out came the trim weights... still dropped. Finally we took the front weights out, and we were positively buoyant, so I gave him the 5 pound weight pouch to hold, then he floated at the eye level... Very strange, him 20 down to 5 pounds and me 14 down to about 4 pounds.

Anybody have any ideas why the poundage that we needed was so much less than the suggested, and compared to salt water? We put in the amounts that were suggested here, which coincided with what our instructor suggested.

Anyways, we can now say we dove fresh water. We will do it again, just either another lake or different area of this lake. It was nice also to just have time where it was just the 2 of us.

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CTTAGENT's Photo CTTAGENT Posts: 1,620
8/5/10 12:42 A

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Thanks Alef and Skacha for the info. I think both hubby and I will start at the 4 lbs less.

An instructor that we talked this past Sunday, told us about doing an additional buoyancy check at the end of a dive to double check the weight amount.
We are going to Lake Berryessa.

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ALEFSCUBA's Photo ALEFSCUBA SparkPoints: (9,275)
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8/4/10 3:29 P

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The air in an 80 cu-ft steel tank weighs over 4 lbs. (According to the Faber low pressure 80 specs, an empty tank is almost 6 lbs more buoyant than a full one: -7.55 lbs v. -1.7 lbs.)

So even though the tank is negative when empty (e.g. -1.7 lbs), you still need to account for the loss of those extra 4 lbs (e.g. -7.55 lbs). If you go in perfectly balanced at the surface and breathe the whole tank, you will find yourself 4 to 6 lbs more buoyant at the end of the dive, and will be unable to perform a comfortable and relaxed safety stop.

That's why I said that for me a perfect buoyancy check is performed at the end of a dive, with a reasonably used tank (e.g. 600 PSI remaining), after the last (e.g. 15 ft) safety stop.

I second the extra weights... but they will go on a boat, so just have plenty of weights around, knowing that some will end up overboard. :)

Alex

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SKACHA's Photo SKACHA Posts: 124
8/4/10 2:54 P

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Another vote for 6lbs-ish! Difference for me between fresh and salt is 5lbs, but I'd agree with Alex to err on the side of caution, and if it's a long walk to the water take some extra weights down to the shore and do a buoyancy check in the shallows - walking back for an extra 2lbs is a pain!

At least with a steel tank you should have the same buoyancy characteristics at the start and end. Have fun!



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ALEFSCUBA's Photo ALEFSCUBA SparkPoints: (9,275)
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8/3/10 5:54 P

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I second Tina's opinion; however, if you are more beginnerish, I would take off 4 lbs to start. It is easier to cope with extra weight than with flying off to the surface. At the end of your first lake dive, with your tank used, you should make sure you can still perform a safety stop circa 15', and that's your ideal weight in my mind. You can use clip-on weights or transfer soft pouches that can be easily removed _after_ the safety stop is completed (i.e. don't jeopardize your stop by mucking with weights).

I dive Monterey/Carmel on the California coast frequently, and Lake Tahoe occasionally. So if you want my exact numbers, I can get them from my logs.

Which lake will you be diving?

Alex

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CTTAGENT's Photo CTTAGENT Posts: 1,620
8/3/10 11:17 A

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You did not confuse me bikinhoney. I couldn't find any site online that could give me a place to start that didn't involve weighing myself then the gear and taking percentages, and so on. That was confusing. So I decided to ask here. I should have done that first...lol
5 or 6 pounds less sounds like a good place to start. We will do our buoyancy check before descending and have a couple other weights available on the boat if we need to change out. Thanks a lot. I will post how it goes.
It is kind of strange to be doing our first boat dive off our own boat. We do the course next month hopefully in San Diego.


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SCUBAHONEY's Photo SCUBAHONEY Posts: 2,852
8/3/10 8:58 A

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Yup! I have done most of my diving in fresh water, but have done a few tropical vacations and dove in the ocean. When I dive in fresh water, it's colder, of course, and I dive with a 7mm wetsuit, hood, and gloves, and use an aluminum 80 tank. I use 16 lbs of weight, which is a bit heavy, but makes up for the buoyancy of the tank when it gets low on air. When I dive in the ocean, I wear a 3mm wetsuit, no hood or gloves, same 80 tank, and I use about the same amount of weight, of course I'm less buoyant because of a thinner suit, but the salt makes me more buoyant.

If you are using the exact same wetsuit and hood, gloves, etc as you did in the ocean, I would start with subtracting 5 or 6 pounds of weight. That should get you pretty close to where you need. I know when I use my 3mm wetsuit in fresh water (not too often!) I use about 5 or 6 lbs than I do when in salt water.

I hope that helps. Probably just confused you! Hee hee! Anyway, I hope you have fun on your dive.

I am a person of infinite possibilities and dreams.

Forgive your enemies. It messes up their heads.


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CTTAGENT's Photo CTTAGENT Posts: 1,620
8/3/10 12:33 A

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Here is the situation: We have only dove in the ocean. We are going to do a lake dive, with the same gear: wetsuit, hood, gloves, steel tanks, etc. I know that we need less weight because of it being fresh water, but can't seem to find much information on the weight difference, plus the fact that our tanks are negatively buoyant. I currently can do 20 pounds, and hubby did 28 in the ocean. Does anyone have any insight on how much less weight would be a place to start?

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