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2/6/10 11:08 A

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I have noticed when I sing at church I tend to match whoever is next to me-or should I say TRY to match!! I will go from high to low to everywhere in between-it terrible and I know it!! Doesn't stop me though I just don't sing terribly loud!!

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KATIE100 Posts: 361
2/5/10 12:11 P

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Hi Ladies,

Hmmm, singing? Well, I do love to sing at Mass but I am afraid I am not very good. I don't let it stop me though!! :-) I figure God gave me this voice and He wants me to use it!

My older son, Liam, used to sing at the top of his lungs at Mass when he was a little one. He would rock back and forth on his little legs and belt out the "tunes" - off key, of course. Everyone used to turn around and look to see who was screeching behind them. When they saw it was a 3 yr old who was thoroughly enjoying "singing to God" (as Liam used to say), they would break out into a huge grin. It made me feel that that's what religious "community" was all about. Feeling a part of a community that recognized the beauty of God and the little gifts that God has given us. (Like 3 yr old little boys who find such joy in singing to God)

What a wonderful memory.... I am smiling just thinking about it.

Well, ladies, off to the gym. I haven't been in a few days and I've got to get my butt movin'!

Hugs to all,
K.

"Keep on, keepin' on."




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2/4/10 9:46 P

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Well, that's probably what I would have thought as well... I'm just trying to think positively. But it's easier when I'm not in the middle of the situation.

AspenJules

"Living together in communities with respect and concern one for another is the hallmark of civilization.” SparkPeople is a civilized place which is why I love to live here! (Quote by Gordon B. Hinckley)

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"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." - Yoda -
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2/4/10 9:35 P

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See that is where we differ Jules. You would think that and I would always think something like "oh man am I way off key? What am I doing wrong" You see I am a natural born negative thinker. I just made that phrase up but I like it. LOL!!!

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2/4/10 9:32 P

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maybe she was totally impressed with your singing and wanted to know who you were. emoticon

AspenJules

"Living together in communities with respect and concern one for another is the hallmark of civilization.” SparkPeople is a civilized place which is why I love to live here! (Quote by Gordon B. Hinckley)

"The real voyage of discovery consists not of seeking new landscape, but in having new eyes." -Marcel Proust, French author and poet

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." - Yoda -
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2/4/10 9:30 P

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I like to sing and sing all the time at home but when I am in public not so much. And this one lady kept turning around and looking at me the whole time I was singing at this one church. After that I didn't sing any more.

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2/4/10 9:23 P

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I sing too... though I sing alto because I can't reach the high notes anymore...

My college roommate's mother said to me that everytime she ever saw me I was singing... I didn't even realize that. It just came naturally then, though I don't do that much anymore unless I've got the radio on in the car.

I liked the Steeple Chasing also, as well as asking Santa for presents! *giggles*

I have to say I'm more a fan of quiet services, though I LOVE the Southern Baptist choir numbers...

AspenJules

"Living together in communities with respect and concern one for another is the hallmark of civilization.” SparkPeople is a civilized place which is why I love to live here! (Quote by Gordon B. Hinckley)

"The real voyage of discovery consists not of seeking new landscape, but in having new eyes." -Marcel Proust, French author and poet

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2/4/10 9:20 P

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Steeple chasing--that's funny! LOL.

I'm just the opposite of you Neraus. I sing out loud because I love to sing! I sing on the Praise team, and even when I'm not up there, I'm singing along. My mom says I was born singing. I guess I've never stopped.

Wendy in NJ

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2/4/10 9:14 P

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That is too funny. I won't sing if I don't know the hymn and even then I don't sing very loud. I often wonder if I sing off key because I have had people next to me turn and look at me while I sing. That usually gets me to stop singing.

By the way my hubby says when you go church to church checking them out that is called Steeple chasing. LOL!!!

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2/4/10 8:39 A

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Funny story-when we moved to our new town in 1994 I was trying different churches in our area and one happened to be an Assembly of God church. Well we were use to the "quiet" church and all the sudden everyone start throwing their hands up and praying out loud, hugging each other and shouting amen. My daughter (who was 7 at the time) and myself didn't know what to do we just huddled close together and look terrified. After about 5 minutes my son (who was 4) just threw up his hands and was yelling out anything he could think of!!! It was one of the funniest things to ever happen to me. Other people actually stopped what they were praying about and started listening to him-I think at one point he was asking Santa for presents!! HEHE Too funny!!

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2/3/10 8:52 P

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I was raised Methodist too. I thought the being quiet thing was due to us being all inhibited Norwegian/Scandidavian types from Minnesota. LOL!!!
I went to an evangelical service and really liked the minister. However when people started raising their arms during the hymns I was a bit freaked out.

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2/3/10 1:03 P

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hehehe, Mormon church meetings are always too full of babies and small children to be TOO peaceful! LOL

AspenJules

"Living together in communities with respect and concern one for another is the hallmark of civilization.” SparkPeople is a civilized place which is why I love to live here! (Quote by Gordon B. Hinckley)

"The real voyage of discovery consists not of seeking new landscape, but in having new eyes." -Marcel Proust, French author and poet

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." - Yoda -
KATIE100 Posts: 361
2/3/10 9:26 A

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Thanks, Kerrie, for your up-lifting words. I have attended quite a few functions (not religious services, but other kinds of things) at our local Methodist church. Very often our Catholic church and the Methodist church get together to do all kinds of things. Anyway, the pastor of the Methodist church is one of the holiest people I know. He is truly awesome. I find a great deal of "peace" in the Methodist church....I know what you were trying to say when you described it as "quiet."

Thanks again for your input. Drop in anytime. This thread is for anyone who wants to be part of it!!

Katie

"Keep on, keepin' on."




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2/3/10 8:41 A

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Oh I love all the info you guys have given! I grew up in the Methodist religion and find its a quiet choice (if that makes any sense)? We would bow our heads and pray silently and you didn't get people yelling out "amen" or anything. In the methodist church we take communion on the first Sunday of every month as a reminder of the gift God gave us by giving his only begotten son. I do remember seeing babies babtized but I was babtized around 8 years old. I'll have to ask my Mom if I was also babtized as a baby. I know some religions are very into the babtizing and will do the ceremony more then once. I do not currently attend a church but I feel I have a very good relationship with God and I try hard everyday to be the kind of person He would be proud of. And I pray often to thank God for all the gifts he has given me-I have been very blessed in my life. Part of His blessing to me is having my online friends, I love you guys and it means so much to have you all to chat with. As a matter of fact I just stopped and said a prayer for all of you, and of course my children and family too!! :)

As far as heaven goes I believe its there and I know someday we'll all have our "perfect wings".

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1/31/10 10:05 P

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LOLOL - I love you ladies!!

Wendy - I'm sure you will be!

Nera - wherever I am, I want you to be near me so I can spend eternity laughing!! LOL!

Katie - I'll be happy to, but I'll leave that for another day for now. And I agree, I love finding the things we have in common in all our beliefs.

AspenJules

"Living together in communities with respect and concern one for another is the hallmark of civilization.” SparkPeople is a civilized place which is why I love to live here! (Quote by Gordon B. Hinckley)

"The real voyage of discovery consists not of seeking new landscape, but in having new eyes." -Marcel Proust, French author and poet

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." - Yoda -
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1/31/10 9:20 P

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Well, if there are degrees to heaven, then I'll be quite content with a sleeping bag just inside the front gates! And by God's grace I WILL be inside.

Wendy in NJ

Co-Leader, Central Jersey Weight Busters Team www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=13706


I think Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors.

Check out my BLOG!! View it from my SparkPage.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. --Phil. 4:13

IN GOD WE TRUST


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KATIE100 Posts: 361
1/31/10 8:37 P

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Hi Jules,

Thanks so much for your sharing what your Faith believes re: heaven, purgatory, limbo, etc.

Wow... have you noticed? We all believe in the same God and that we are saved through Him. Because of this, in my mind, we are more ALIKE than DIFFERENT!! I love that we can all share that about our Faiths.

emoticon

Jules, I have a question for you... can you please explain how your religion was founded? I really don't know anything about that. Thanks!

I am really loving learning about everyone's religion. Many hugs and much love in Christ to everyone.

Katie

"Keep on, keepin' on."




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1/31/10 8:24 P

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Now I just know that if there are degrees to heaven then I will get the noisy one next to the ice machine. LOL!!!!

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1/31/10 7:38 P

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LOL Nera!! I think it's because you want real answers... you don't seem like the type to take a "pat" answer and just swallow it whole. You want a real, MEATY answer!

Katie - thanks so much for explaining about those things. I never really knew much about how those worked. And I think it goes without saying that none of us are "scholars" of our various religions so we are each explaining things to the best of our ability.

I will share what us "Mormons" believe about these things too.

Communion - we call it the Sacrament. We do not believe that it actually turns into the Body and Blood of Christ, but that it is a symbolic reminder to us of Christ's atonement and sacrifice. It is also a holy ordinance whereby we renew our baptismal covenants with God each week.

Limbo for unbabtized infants - We don't believe in original sin. We believe that each person will be punished for their own sins, and that Christ's Atonement took care of Adam's sin for all the rest of us. We also believe that little children are incapable of sin and come from God in an innocent state. We baptize children at the age of 8, at a time when they are beginning to be able to distinguish right from wrong and make more 'informed' choices based on their level of understanding. Children that die before that age, as well as those who are mentally/emotionally handicapped severely enough to be unable to truly understand the consequences of their behavior are automatically saved by the merits of Christ's sacrifice for them.

As for achieving Heaven... lol.. well... my head is exploding with trying to figure out the best way to explain our beliefs. I'll do the best I can.

In short - we believe that everyone will be saved in that everyone will be resurrected and gain an immortal body. This is a gift from God through Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 15:20, KJV)

We also don't believe in the traditional version of Hell, or Purgatory.

We believe that when we die we all go the spirit world, where those who have not yet been resurrected live. When we face the Judgement, every person who has lived on the earth will be resurrected (I don't know if that happens before or after the judgement, or even if time will have meaning, but I believe it happens before.)

Almost every person will go to a 'degree' of Heaven, or a kingdom of glory, of which there are 3 main ones. They go to the one for which they have best suited themselves through the way they have lived their lives, whether they have repented of their sins, and whether they have made and kept the covenants which God requires of us. Baptism is one of those ordinances. (Ordinances are the means by which one makes a covenant (or promise) with God, things you DO like baptism and taking the sacrament.)(Scriptural reference for the differing heavens is 1 Corinthians 15:35, 40-42, KJV)

And as long as I'm on the subject, while we believe that we can absolutely not save ourselves on our own and must have faith in Christ as our Savior, we do believe that true faith will be evident in the things that we do and therefore works are also necessary. James 2, KJV is a great chapter to explain this.

Ok, I've rambled enough, lol. Sorry to go on, but I'm REALY enjoying this discussion and learning and sharing about what everybody believes.

AspenJules

"Living together in communities with respect and concern one for another is the hallmark of civilization.” SparkPeople is a civilized place which is why I love to live here! (Quote by Gordon B. Hinckley)

"The real voyage of discovery consists not of seeking new landscape, but in having new eyes." -Marcel Proust, French author and poet

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." - Yoda -
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1/30/10 9:32 P

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Katie thanks for the explanation of purgatory and limbo. It is nice to get an understanding of it but I still can not believe in it. Goes against just too much that I have been taught,read and believe. But in the long run no one is going to know until they die and since nobody sends emails back from there we just don't know. LOL!!!!

I was raised Methodist and communion was very seldom. But my stint as a Lutheran I came to enjoy the ritual of communion. Lutherans by the way play it right down the middle when it comes to communion. Yes it is the body and blood but yet it also just bread and wine at the same time. They had a term for that but I can't remember it. I got a bit bored during my Lutheran classes(had to take them to join a church)plus the minister wasn't one who welcomed questions of any kind. I have run in to that alot during my life.

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KATIE100 Posts: 361
1/30/10 9:14 P

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Me too! emoticon

K.

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1/30/10 8:22 P

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Well Katie, if that's true, then I know a few people who are bound straight for Heaven! LOL

Wendy in NJ

Co-Leader, Central Jersey Weight Busters Team www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=13706


I think Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors.

Check out my BLOG!! View it from my SparkPage.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. --Phil. 4:13

IN GOD WE TRUST


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KATIE100 Posts: 361
1/30/10 6:35 P

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Hey Wendy,

Thanks for your informative info. too! I just want to clarify one thing.... we also believe everyone is "saved" by Jesus' sacrifice and therefore we go to heaven (eventually), but we believe that if we die with sin on our hearts, we first have to atone for them before we get there.

Martyrs go straight to heaven, though. (Talk about technicalities!!) haha!

K.

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1/30/10 4:32 P

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Wow Katie, thanks for explaining that! I always wondered about the whole Purgatory thing.

I guess the way my church differs from yours is that we believe that when Jesus died on the cross, ALL of our sins were forgiven, into eternity. And we believe that by believing in Jesus, and entering into relationship with Him, is how you achieve salvation. Once you are saved, you are assured of heaven, becuase God sees you as holy and blameless through Jesus' sacrifice. If you could earn your way into heaven through good works, then why did Jesus have to die for our sins? I hope I explained that right!

We do communion, but only occasionally, and we don't believe that the bread and juice actually become the body and blood, because Jesus died once for all. I think that might be why you have a crucifix and we use a plain cross.

Very interesting to learn all this stuff!

Wendy in NJ

Co-Leader, Central Jersey Weight Busters Team www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=13706


I think Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors.

Check out my BLOG!! View it from my SparkPage.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. --Phil. 4:13

IN GOD WE TRUST


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KATIE100 Posts: 361
1/30/10 12:27 P

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First of all.... Yikes! I am so sorry that you Wendy, and you Neraus, have had such bad experiences with Catholics. I must say that when something like that happens, its understandable that it colors your feelings about my religion and its hard to believe there's anything good about it. So... On behalf of Catholics who feel as I do, I have to apologize for the comments made to you and I'd like to assure you that there are just as many Catholics who CRINGE when they hear stuff like this, than not.

Next, I have to say that everything that I write about the Catholic religion is either MY understanding of it and/or MY opinion. I do not want to debate anyone as this is just a discussion board. So... I will write about how I interpret things and how I understand them and about my opinion of the different topics are.

Wendy... as for the "doesn't count" comment. I think a better way of putting it to you should have been to explain that it is a Catholic's "Holy Obligation" to attend Mass each week. We are required to attend Mass as we believe in the "Real Presence" of the Eucharist. This means that we believe during the Mass that the bread and wine literally transforms into the Body and Blood of Christ. Because many Protestants do not believe that, Catholics are required to go to our own Church each week. We can attend services at another church as well, but we are supposed to attend Mass too. I hope that explains it a little better for you. It's not that we don't love and appreciate other services, but we attend them IN ADDITION to our own (because of the Real Presence issue). I have been to many services in other Protestants churches and have felt wonderful about being there AND I have definitely felt that I had been there worshipping.

Neraus... what can I say? It is true that the older generation of Catholics (and many of their children - because that's what they've been taught) believe that Catholicism is the only way to heaven. Personally, I DO NOT believe that. I believe it is one way, and its an incredibly beautiful way, but certainly not the only way. I don't believe that Catholicism is the ONE TRUE RELIGION either. I believe that kind of talk saddens God. Again, just my opinion. Modern Catholics in the U.S. are getting away from that old teaching, but I do admit that it runs counter to Rome.

Hmmmm, about purgatory. I think you are thinking of Limbo, Neraus. That teaching has sort of gone by the wayside because it isn't exactly biblical. Many Catholics no longer believe in it.

Limbo vs. Purgatory - I hope this helps Jules:

Let’s start with sin. Roman Catholics make a distinction based on a sin’s severity. The biggest ones —murder, adultery, sacrilege, that type of thing—are called mortal sins because they put your soul in jeopardy of damnation. The lesser sins that we all commit every day—petty jealousy, lying, cheating etc. — are venial sins. Confession and absolution free your soul from sin, but if you die with some venial sins on your heart, which most of us do -Purgatory is the destination.

Contrary to some popular confusion, Purgatory is not the same thing as Hell. Not by a long shot. Purgatory is a place of atonement whereby your soul is eventually cleansed enough to be in the presence of our awesome, pure, beautiful and perfect God. While theologians vary on the kind, time frame, and severity of Purgatorial atonement, some say that the agony of waiting for Heaven’s rewards is punishment enough. That's my philosopy. I believe that waiting to be in God's presence must be excruiating. People who are still living can pray for your soul to shorten your time there (November 2, All Soul’s Day, is set aside specifically for this although people pray for their loved ones whenever they want). Eventually your soul goes to Heaven to be in the presence of God, seeing God in a “beatific vision.” Whereupon there is much rejoicing.

As for the doctrine of “limbo,” it’s so controversial that even Catholics aren’t sure they believe in it anymore. By definition, limbo is where the souls of those who are righteous or innocent, but not baptized (and therefore still stained by Adam’s Original Sin), spend eternity deprived of the presence of God. Old time Catholics looked at Limbo like a home for the souls of babies who die before they can be baptized. It’s a place of happiness, but free from the beatific vision, so ultimately a place of without God and not as wonderful as heaven. This doctrine is especially controversial within the Church, and some Catholics have begun accepting an alternative view—that the faithfulness and goodness of the parents can redeem an unbaptized baby’s soul, because after all, a baby has no control over whether he/she is baptized and we cannot believe God would be so cruel anyway. Godparents are chosen to "stand in" for the infant child when baptized and then when the child is older (teens, usually), he/she can make up his/her own mind about whether or not he/she wants to continue in the Faith. If so, he/she takes part in the Sacrament of Confirmation.

Ok, this is a loooong post and I hope I haven't bored anyone or confused the issues further for you.

Love, K.


Edited by: KATIE100 at: 1/30/2010 (12:33)
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1/29/10 10:06 P

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I remember when my kids were baptized (we were Presbyterian at the time), my ex's brother and SIL were complaining that they had to go to mass on Saturday night because coming to our church "didn't count". That totally turned me off!

Wendy in NJ

Co-Leader, Central Jersey Weight Busters Team www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=13706


I think Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors.

Check out my BLOG!! View it from my SparkPage.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. --Phil. 4:13

IN GOD WE TRUST


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1/29/10 8:22 P

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Paul taught that anything that leads one to Christ is good (or of God - also not an accurate rendition. I should find the passage, LOL.) And I agree that God loves ALL his children enough to send his Son for all of us. That is a very comforting thought, and also helps me deal with people that irritate or anger me. I just tell myself "God loves them too, and Jesus died for them too..." Sometimes it helps. emoticon

Katie - would you mind explaining a little about purgatory? I've never really learned much about what it is...

Oh, and Nera - I had to laugh at your comment about politicians. SO true!! LOL

Edited by: ASPENJULES at: 1/29/2010 (20:22)
AspenJules

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"The real voyage of discovery consists not of seeking new landscape, but in having new eyes." -Marcel Proust, French author and poet

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." - Yoda -
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1/29/10 8:04 P

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Katie that is my thought too. I think people get hung up on the trappings of religions and forget what it really means. My personal reglious life rope that I hang on to is God so loved the world he sent his only son. All who believe in him shall have enternal life. Not an accurate rendition of the passage but it gets the point across.

That being said I have some catholic friends that I have pretty close to blows with. After I was told that the catholic church is the only true church and the rest of us are just playing pretend church. It was also added that really only catholics go to heaven.

As a catholic I would like to know if you believe in purgatory. I had thought that particular teaching had been considered "old fashioned" and kind of pushed aside by the church. But these same catholic friends(I may be using the term friend to loosely, lol!!!) say it is still an intergral part of church teaching.

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KATIE100 Posts: 361
1/29/10 11:19 A

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I, too, am happy to learn about anyone's beliefs and church doctrine anytime. I am very interested in all of that and I believe learning about other people's religion creates understanding and peace among us. I happen to be Roman Catholic and believe me.... I know about what it means to be misunderstood or to get a bad "rap." Not all priests are child abusers, Catholics are not idol worshippers, and we are good people!! (smile) I live in an area where Catholics are in a minority. Anyway, We just choose to worship God in our own way and it is my PERSONAL opinion that God doesn't mind one bit how we (meaning individuals or other groups) choose to worship, just that we do. He love us all unconditionally and appreciates who we are.

K.

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1/26/10 7:27 P

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Religion can be discussed as long as people respect each other views. I had a very nice chat once with a friend who doesn't believe in God at all. Her asking me questions made me think about my beliefs more. Helps me to clarify my thoughts.

Politics noboby respects anybody not even the politicians. LOL!!!

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1/26/10 7:11 P

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Me too.

Popular wisdom says that people should never discuss politics or religion but I have honestly found that caring friends are perfectly capable of having calm, rational religious discussions, even when they may disagree.

I have not, however, found that to be the case with politics, though, LOL! Not saying it can't be done, I just haven't seen it personally.

AspenJules

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1/26/10 7:08 P

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Really interesting Jules. I'm always interested in learning about other religions.

Wendy in NJ

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Ok, I finally got to this, LOL. I'm excited about this, and think with this group we should be able to have good discussions.

I think it will be great to be able to ask sincere questions about things you're interested in or points that you need clarification on.

Anyway, one thing my husband pointed out for anybody wanted more or better explanations of things than I am unable to give, you can always find out more about our church at www.mormon.org .

And I guess that brings me to my next bit (or two) of information. My husband is a bishop of our ward. A ward is just like a political ward, if I understand those correctly. For us, a ward is a small geographical area that is organized into a church unit. Hmmm, not sure I explained that well. Anyway, so the bishop is in charge of the ward. He has been doing that for about 4 years now. Bishops usually are in position between 5-7 years. They are not paid because we have what is called a 'lay clergy' or in other words, everything is done by volunteers. Nobody gets paid for any of their work in the church. For instance, some family members of one of our ward members wanted to get married and my husband married them. They tried to pay him, but he wouldn't accept it.

My son who is on a mission (our boys between the ages of 19-25 and our girls between the ages of 21-25 who want to go are encouraged to serve missions for the length of 2 years for boys or 18 mos for girls) is serving for no money, and at our cost.

I have felt tremendous blessings in all our lives for our service though, and don't regret or resent any of it, even though the demands on my husband's times are immense. Bishop is probably one of the most demanding, difficult jobs in the church.

Ok, enough for this post.

AspenJules

"Living together in communities with respect and concern one for another is the hallmark of civilization.” SparkPeople is a civilized place which is why I love to live here! (Quote by Gordon B. Hinckley)

"The real voyage of discovery consists not of seeking new landscape, but in having new eyes." -Marcel Proust, French author and poet

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." - Yoda -
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