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CARLI_MAE's Photo CARLI_MAE SparkPoints: (54,703)
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12/8/10 4:21 P

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Thanks, Sparkle; and EXACTLY, Giant! What is even more remarkable here is that Obama still has a majority in both houses, and will retain one in the Senate.

I was tempted to get really snarky in my response to the OFA video and refer to him as "President Bush" -- & while CREDO, Bold Progressives, MoveOn, & ColorofChange are all asking us to call our reps about the tax deal, OFA has sent out a "call your rep to support the vote on DADT," apparently taking an attitude of "well, that's over with ... let's move on to the next obstruct, delay, obstruct, delay thing."

Boy I'm glad I don't donate to political campaigns or parties -- they never do what we want anyway, and this Pres. has so far done more to please the wealthy than the middle & lower classes. If you doubt that, look at the reaction of the med/pharma/healthcare markets after the healthcare bill was signed -- stock prices rose! Following FinReg, Wall Street RALLIED! What does that tell you? It says they pretty much got off easy, & got what they wanted, that's what!

Talk about ruining e1's Christmas ... except for the wealthiest who can go shopping at Neiman Marcus, Tiffany's, and high end car dealerships. "Oh Lord, won't ya buy me a Mercedes Benz? Mah friends all have Porches ..." emoticon emoticon

♫ Carli

“Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells one it is right.” ~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


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12/8/10 11:51 A

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Even though President Clinton wasn't my favorite president (more conservative than many Republicans, remember NAFTA and repealing Glass-Steagall) he did know how to play hardball with Republicans.

Brinksmanship is a negotiation technique where you keep raising the stakes until the other side backs down. The best known example of this is probably the bluff in poker; you have a weak hand so you keep raising your bet hoping your opponents will fold. Brinksmanship was raised to high art during the cold war when both the US and USSR were kept at relative peace because of mutually assured destruction.

The negotiator using brinksmanship is betting that his opponent will back down so he doesn't have to follow through on his threats. So far President Obama has always backed down which has further emboldened the Republicans.

Remember that when Dick Armey gave President Clinton an ultimatum that if he didn't sign their budget that they would shut down government and ruin Clinton's presidency. President Clinton stood his ground and ultimately triumphed. His victory wasn't assured; in fact in the beginning the public largely blamed Clinton for the shutdown. Part of effective negotiation is also being willing to risk loosing. If you always play it safe you will never get much negotiating.

President Obama needs his version of a government shutdown for the Republicans (and the rest of us) to take him seriously. Tax cuts could have been Obama's stand but it wasn't.

SPARKLE1908's Photo SPARKLE1908 Posts: 13,474
12/8/10 8:25 A

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Excellent response Carli!!!

I didn't watch the other shows..Ed and Wolf Blitzer were enough...the more I listened to this particular topic the more PISAPPOINTED (combo of p*ssed and disappointed) I got...

"You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." -Margaret Thatcher

"You don't drown by falling in the water. You drown by staying there." -Unknown

"If you can solve your problem, then what is the need of worrying? If you cannot solve it, then what is the use of worrying?"-Shantideva


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CARLI_MAE's Photo CARLI_MAE SparkPoints: (54,703)
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12/8/10 3:54 A

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Shultz wasn't the only one ... Matthews, Olbermann, and Maddow all tore through this. Just now I got a more conciliatory video from OFA asking me to comment ... here the Pres. isn't bashing his base, but he's still expecting us to believe this lame-ass rationalization.

my.barackobama.com/TaxCutsVid
eo



Here's what I wrote in response:

I'm afraid, after your remarks yesterday, you have lost my support and confidence on this particular issue, Mr. President. The first couple of times liberals like myself were referred to as "retarded" by Rahm Emmanuel & later characterised as "the professional left" by Press Secy Gates, I chalked it up to a lack of diplomacy on the part of those individuals. But now you, yourself have attacked your own Democratic base! Mr. President, you are chastising the wrong people!

First of all, we have been down this road of Republican stalling on unemployment benefits before, and they have always eventually voted for the extensions. Second, this "trade off," from what I understand, will fail to provide coverage for the "99ers."

My thoughts are that it would be preferable to have this fight now rather than in two years when we are in the midst of another election cycle. Delaying the expiration of the "Bush" tax cuts will only make them more difficult to eliminate. In January, when the House is in Republican control, do you really expect you will have more cooperation than you have now?

Most Americans understand that the benefits and priveledges we have in the U.S. do NOT come cheaply. Those of us who elected you did so because we believed you would stand fast to your principles, and, above all, reverse the economic and foreign relations damages of the previous administration. We have stood by you and worked hard to convince others with solid facts and figures that you have indeed made progress. But now it is as if you are giving up on us, and worse, allowing the millions of dollars spent by the Chamber, Crossroads, Koch, and Wall Street "fat cats" buying the midterm elections to get the "payback" they expected from Mitch McConnell and John Boehner.

Mr. President, this is NOT, as you said, "the public option" all over again. As a recipient of Social Security (my sole income at this time), heading into a second year with no COLA, I wonder if extending these tax reductions and adding to the deficit will ultimately mean yet more cuts to my income and to Medicare payments, putting me and others like me in danger of having our medical providers refuse to accept assignment and plunging us even further below the poverty line. The government's financial officers may think our cost of living hasn't risen, but I can tell you a very different story. My property taxes, insurance costs, utilities, and cost of food have all increased. It is only a matter of time before my savings run out and I am forced to sell my home. Add a catastrophic illness to the mix, and I'm finished.

I have already signed petitions and written my House & Senate Rep's asking they block any such irresponsible measure if you won't. With 67% of the country on the side of no tax cuts for the wealthy, neither you nor any legislator can say they are responding to the will of the people. The "framework" you reached with the Republicans is simply unacceptable.

Edited by: CARLI_MAE at: 12/8/2010 (04:00)
♫ Carli

“Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells one it is right.” ~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


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SPARKLE1908's Photo SPARKLE1908 Posts: 13,474
12/7/10 8:24 P

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I watched "The Ed Show" tonight and he ripped into Obama on just about every turn...he had Bernie on there, Jesse Jackson as well and they basically all ripped into Obama...

He showed bits from Obama's press conference today where he basically attacked the Dems for being against this "deal"...very weird watching him defend such a pitiful plan...like Bernie said..he could have separated the middle class tax cuts from the wealthy and he would have had more support..the fact that he made it contingent on the wealthy getting what they don't need is absurd....

After looking at what Obama said, I go back to my original "theory" that Obama is part of the GOP...this is not the time for him to deal with his issues of "fitting in".....

"You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." -Margaret Thatcher

"You don't drown by falling in the water. You drown by staying there." -Unknown

"If you can solve your problem, then what is the need of worrying? If you cannot solve it, then what is the use of worrying?"-Shantideva


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12/7/10 7:45 P

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I signed the Move-on petition too, Carlie_Mae. We'll see what happens next.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9)


CARLI_MAE's Photo CARLI_MAE SparkPoints: (54,703)
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12/7/10 5:09 P

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Disappointed is hardly the word for me after hearing Obama speak yesterday on his "compromise." What compromise? He's willing to give the GOP everything they want for a measely 13 mo extension for the unemployed. BAH!

Speaking of "trickle down" -- remember the Rep. primary leading up to Reagan's election? G.H.W. Bush called Reagan's plan "voodoo economics." Then, of course, he gladly joined the bandwagon as Ronnie's V.P. & successor.

I hope, and just signed a Move On petition to the Senate to block any compromise bill and let the dang taxes expire completely. I think most Americans understand that everything we have, all our freedoms, cost money (duh) & if we want all these things ... if we want this country to continue to grow ... even extending the "middle class tax cuts" will cost $3.2 Trillion over the next 10 yrs. So big deal ... with a deficit of $14 trillion, we expect to reduce it by adding $4 trillion to accomodate the rich too? Neither proposal is feasible, and both options mean cuts that will put more people out on the street and take us one giant leap closer to the "Third World America" Arianna Huffington talks about in her book.

Edited by: CARLI_MAE at: 12/8/2010 (04:02)
♫ Carli

“Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells one it is right.” ~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


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12/7/10 1:27 P

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Word to your post, Sparkle. And there's this. I know many say that we all heard what we wanted to hear when BO was campaigning. (Though he did specifically campaign against the very tax cuts he's now in favor of continuing!) I just heard Mike Papantonio on the Ed Schultz (radio) show. He suggested that BO has always felt out of the group, different and poorer than many in the groups he was in (his private school and Harvard) and that now he's trying to ingratiate himself to those who have always been in the "in crowd". That's a very sad thought. And if his dream was to fit into the Old Boys Club, to be a Republican, I wish he'd run as one.

I can't believe I'm saying these things. I loved that man, or at least the man I thought he was. I'm terribly disappointed. It's the death of a dream for me. A dream that sprang up when I had no more hope after 8 years of GWB. I'm sorry to say so, but I hope that Sen. Bernie Sanders and other dems abandon him in this matter. He needs a wake up call. IMO.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9)


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12/7/10 12:24 P

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I wasn't aware the term "trickle down economics" was already in use. I thought Reagan coined it. While he didn't coin it he did sell it.

SPARKLE1908's Photo SPARKLE1908 Posts: 13,474
12/7/10 9:02 A

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Am I surprised by Obama? no...

Am I disappointed in him? yep...

He has pretty much guaranteed that he will have a Democratic challenger in 2012 and depending on who it is, he can't rely on my vote...

There is no way he should have gone for a "deal" where the rich get tax breaks for 2 yrs while the unemployed only get a 13 month extension..how fair is that?? and that is only ONE thing wrong with this...

But then I have to remind myself that Obama is just like the rest of them (both parties)..he is a politician...a RICH politician...this tax break benefits him as much as it does McCain and the others...sometimes I wonder if he is secretly working with them...they KNEW they didn't have a decent GOP candidate so they planted someone on the Dem side they knew could win over Clinton....

{sometimes you have to laugh to keep from cursing about politics}

"You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." -Margaret Thatcher

"You don't drown by falling in the water. You drown by staying there." -Unknown

"If you can solve your problem, then what is the need of worrying? If you cannot solve it, then what is the use of worrying?"-Shantideva


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12/6/10 9:06 P

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Well said, Giant-Steps. I'm so disappointed in Pres. Obama.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9)


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12/6/10 8:12 P

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My parents were talking about "trickle down" economics vs "prime the pump" economics back when I was a kid in the 50's. I think it goes back to Herbert Hoover. It didn't work for Hoover, either.

Carol

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CINDERRELIC's Photo CINDERRELIC Posts: 7,621
12/6/10 7:14 P

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I agree with what you said Giant Steps. Its time to go for the brass ring.or get off the merry go round.

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12/6/10 6:53 P

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A BIG ditto to everything you said!

Gail


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12/6/10 2:43 P

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I remember when Gerald Ford suggested giving tax breaks to the wealthy to stimulate investment. His reasoning was the poor would just squander the money on food, clothes, and necessities while the wealthy would invest. I remember the idea was considered so preposterous that it was quickly dropped.

A few years later Ronald Reagan came up with "trickle down economics" to explain the same idea and claimed that a rising tide lifts all ships. In other words, what's good for GM is good for America.

Conservatives have had 30 years to test "trickle down economics" and what we have learned is that trickle down economics doesn't trickle down. Except for the wealthiest Americans wages have been stagnant or declining for the last 30 years. Large numbers of Americans effectively have no assets. Their debts about cancel out their assets so on paper they aren't worth anything; We became a borrower nation trying to maintain our standard of living when the cards are stacked against us. Paying these debts is yet another way money is being siphoned from the people who can afford it least.

Bernie Sanders is one of the few people who tell it like it is. When Barack Obama was elected I thought the pendulum was beginning to swing to the left but it seems we aren't yet.

I wish President Obamas mandate was to do the best job instead of being bipartisan. Look at all the things we gave away in health reform trying to get one Republican to vote for it. Why was getting Olympia Snow's or Susan Collins' vote so important? In the end it was futile anyway; the Republican party has enough discipline to rope in moderates like Snow and Collins. Seems to me what we needed was the best possible health reform then take credit for it.

Not it looks like President Obama has already given up on ending GW Bush's tax cuts for billionaires.

I wish President Obama would understand that you can't negotiate with terrorists or Republicans.

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12/5/10 8:44 P

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I like him...he tells it like it is.



“A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones who need the advice.”

Bill Cosby


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BUTRFNGRZ's Photo BUTRFNGRZ Posts: 3,519
12/5/10 5:17 P

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emoticon I had never heard of him before, but he will definitely be on my radar now!

~Marti - Mesa, AZ~
NESTING PHOENIX

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12/5/10 5:02 P

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Bettybee, that is the truth. I wish more people would listen.

"No matter who you are, no matter what you do, you absolutely, positively do have the power to change."
-Bill Phillips



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you want to be."
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12/5/10 3:54 P

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It was a remarkable speech. Of course no one will listen, except those of us already in the choir (except to discount his words with the "scary" moniker of socialist). But it is good to know that there is still at least one US senator who isn't bound by his/her lobbyist handlers.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9)


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12/5/10 3:37 P

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Woohoo!!!! Go get 'em Bernie!!!!!!

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OLDHAG1's Photo OLDHAG1 Posts: 1,085
12/5/10 2:47 P

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I have lived in NC all of my life, but Bernie Sanders has been MY man for as long as I have known him through C-Span--a LONG time. LOVE HIM! It is beyond my comprehension that one could listen to him and NOT see the light. I'm also a BIG fan of Jan Schakowsky.

Edited by: OLDHAG1 at: 12/5/2010 (16:14)
Gail


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12/5/10 2:34 P

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Go Bernie!

Carol

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OREGON_MAMA's Photo OREGON_MAMA Posts: 2,994
12/5/10 1:30 P

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www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq1zpHF0J04

Is the MAN!! emoticon

"No matter who you are, no matter what you do, you absolutely, positively do have the power to change."
-Bill Phillips



"You must begin to think of yourself as becoming the person
you want to be."
-David Viscott

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