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A*L*P*'s Photo A*L*P* SparkPoints: (70,443)
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3/31/11 2:10 P

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Some of them are, for sure! I feel very lucky with where I live. they're pretty good. My butt is going to keep moving and moving and moving.... LOL!!

*Amber*
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FAIRYANNE3's Photo FAIRYANNE3 Posts: 3,642
3/31/11 2:09 P

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Amber, I agree keep moving during labour. Again our local hospital puts people to bed!! All my girls, we kept moving them moving even if it was in their rooms and then when the waters broke my girls were kneeling on their beds!

I am beginning to think our hospitals are crap!!!!! LOL

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3/31/11 2:01 P

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With my oldest daughter, the nurses in the hospital filled my baby up with water before I even saw her. I had been knocked out for a cesarian... I was pretty young (20 years old) and the breastfeeding was off to a bad start. I tried to keep it going for a couple of months, but ended up bottle feeding out of pure frustration. I did however, make my own formula... I didn't understand all the crap in store formula, but I did feel thathomemade would certainly have to be better.

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"If it tastes good; Spit it out!" ~ Jack Lalanne

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ANIDUCK's Photo ANIDUCK Posts: 10,850
3/31/11 1:57 P

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YESSSS
The Lamaze breathing technique is what worked for me plus education about my body and the stages of labor--really helped me to connect baby and me.

Hospitals around our area are MUCH better now in accommodating moms and newborns with things like keeping your baby with you at all times, privacy, more homey atmosphere, totally engaging husbands in the whole thing. Lots more midwives available now. My DH has a midwife that is helping her through the pregnancy. Wish I had had one of those for my pregnancies. Times have changed generally for the better for giving birth since I was in my childbearing years so I'm not surprised at your positive experiences.

Edited by: ANIDUCK at: 3/31/2011 (13:58)
Hospitals are terrific for traumatic care; for acute care. They do a really, really good job in saving lives when it’s a sudden bleeding emergency. But in terms of chronic care, they’re terrible; (that is) in terms of the illnesses that most people have, endure, that cost the most money, that last the longest and ultimately die from. -Dr. Andrew Saul


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3/31/11 1:49 P

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Wow, that is too bad! Our hospital is actually really, really good. I opted not to go with a midwife because of that. We have the option of keeping baby with us 100% of the time or putting them in the nursery, which makes me terribly happy as I plan (and have done with ALL of mine) to keep baby with me 100% of the time so I *know* for certain he will NOT be given formula or a paci. I don't want to take the chance of nipple confusion. I have been extremely fortunate in the past to have had good "latchers" they have all taken to nursing extremely well (minus my DD who gave it up at 4 mos when I went back to work). But our hospital, nurses and doctors are HUGE advocates for breastfeeding, they immensely support the La Leche League, which is a BIG deal especially for a first time breastfeeding mom.

Annie, that is awesome about your birthing. I plan to go au natural with this one as well. I have been doing yoga all throughout my pregnancy along with kegels to help get my body ready. Also, my massage therapist will be there with me to help me work through the labor pains and she advocates hugely against IV's unless medically necessary. I plan to walk through the contractions and practice yoga poses to help with it. Yep, it will hurt, I have been there, done that, but is there really any other pain in the world that yields such wonderful results?!!!

*Amber*
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ANIDUCK's Photo ANIDUCK Posts: 10,850
3/31/11 1:34 P

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That is good stuff Fairyanne. Things just aren't the same across the board for sure.

I was just thinking of when I had my first pregnancy and went to the OBGYN that my mother had used and that I had been seeing. At my first pregnancy appointment I asked that doctor (a female) timidly if she could give me info on natural childbirth as I was really interested in that alternative. Her immediate and strong response was something along the lines of "you don't want anything to do with that; labor is very painful and you need to let me decide and control how it's to be done." This was in 1968. I was very easily intimidated by the "authority in the white coat" and I just shut up and went through the whole thing "her way". Well, to make a long story short, it hurt like hell anyway. And being COMPLETELY uninformed as to the details of pregnancy and labor except what the cute little brochures displayed in the waiting room wanted to tell me, I was scared to death. The drugs only made me very groggy and even made me sleep between contractions and then when I had one I woke up yelling. At the end of the ordeal (lasting only about 12 hours--thank God) I was given the "spinal". So then I could feel nothing at all from my waist down and the doc THEN told me to push. How ridiculous I thought, WHAT DO I PUSH? I felt NOTHING!!

I was given all those goodies to take home too and I was only slightly encouraged to bottle feed. I had already told my doc that I had planned to breast feed so she did give me some instructions on how to prepare my breasts. Thank God again for those instructions. I took to breastfeeding very well; my daughter latched on within a couple of hours of birth.

Need I say that my next two pregnancies and labors were completely drug free and far less painful because, mainly, I was in control!! BIG DIFF!!

So, I guess what I'm saying is that it's just different in different hospitals, with different doctors and situations.

I also remember taking that 1st baby girl for her 6 mo. checkup and being ridiculed for still breastfeeding. I was practically in tears as I left that office and continued to breastfeed for a year when, I'm ashamed to admit, I began to feel uneasy about it myself. I began to doubt myself and my own mothering. So I quit and offered her a bottle. How sad. Second child (another girl) breast fed until that little bugger pushed me away at about 10 months. Third child (a boy, of course, typical male!) didn't decide to fall asleep without his nighty nosh until he was almost 2 1/2!! It was a sad moment because I felt sure he was my last and he was.

Happy mothering!
-annie

Hospitals are terrific for traumatic care; for acute care. They do a really, really good job in saving lives when it’s a sudden bleeding emergency. But in terms of chronic care, they’re terrible; (that is) in terms of the illnesses that most people have, endure, that cost the most money, that last the longest and ultimately die from. -Dr. Andrew Saul


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FAIRYANNE3's Photo FAIRYANNE3 Posts: 3,642
3/31/11 12:41 P

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Well I have really had a hard time with this whole thing, as many of you have posted too.

The first link/article was about a couple in France and their 11 month old child, the second link was of another story. Florida and a 5 month old. I believe there is much more to these articles than we are aware of.

I have to just say about the breast feeding/hospital/formula whole thing.

My one daughter gave birth 16 years ago and she really wanted to breast feed and she was having a tough time starting (latching on) I was with her as much as I could be. I had breast fed my three child, way back when. One lunch time I had left and was not able to come back to the next evening. The hospital staff had switched the baby to formula. I spoke to my daughter and she said that two nurses had come in and really pushed her into giving up breast feeding. Her husband had also returned to work so he was not with her, him and I were livid, I felt they had cornered her and took advantage of her.

Just three years ago my other daughter gave birth same area but not the same hospital, same kind of thing. Not supportive of breast feeding mums at all. It was push the formula and gifts of diaper bags, coupons and first baby book to read to baby. Free samples of formula to go home with etc. What did the breast feeding mum get.............................ZIP, NOTHING, ZERO. One nurse told us about a store that was for breast feeding mums, you could bring baby in and weigh them so you knew babe was feeding well etc. The local chapter of the La Leche League were fab, and it made the whole experience wonderful for my daughter.

My daughter just passed on her knowledge of breast feeding to a new mum on her street too. It is a shame that it seems our area hospitals are not supportive. From what this brand new mum just said they could care less about the breast feeding mums. There was a class in the hospital and if the one nurse was on duty she would come and help/talk to the breast feeding mum if she needed help. With the stays being so short for mums and babies it is hard to catch the classes in hospital. It can't be easy for some of these nurses because of all the patients they have and paper work etc. perhaps it is not the nurses fault but more of a failure in the system!

Formula companies back in the 70's did some nasty stuff in third world counties. They pushed the formulas on new mums. Free stuff to start and then when mum's milk was dried up they would have to purchase the product. First off a lot of babes run into trouble because they do not have safe drinking water and when the mums found out how much money it would cost to buy the formula they would really water it down so the babies were not getting the nutritional value. Nestle was one of the biggest offenders I believe.

Sorry I know that I was a bit off topic, thanks for letting me vent!

No foods with high fructose corn syrup, sugar, rice syrup, corn syrup, fructose, sucrose etc. in the first three ingredients.

No foods that have more than 3 ingredients that I can not pronounce.

If an item has more than 10 ingredients it is too processed, I will not eat or buy the item.




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ANIDUCK's Photo ANIDUCK Posts: 10,850
3/31/11 12:13 A

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When a person or a group wants to diss on another group they will gladly feed on what a fringe element has done just to justify their bigotry. e.g. If a person or group of persons, who calls themselves Christian do/does some odd thing that is, perhaps, a bit antisocial in nature (like raise their kids in complete seclusion and homeschool them) then those who love to ridicule Christianity and/or homeschooling will point at either of those things and say, "See!". If a person or group of persons, who live a vegan lifestyle do/does something slightly antisocial (or have had a calamity such as the couple spoken of in this article) then those who love to ridicule vegans will point to that and say, "See!". This is bigotry in its true form.

This goes both ways. There are those who actively criticize those who don't agree with the vegan lifestyle and if one or two of these critics says something ungracious towards veganism then some in the vegan community will jump to the chance to claim that vegans are victims of an unjust and even stupid society.

So what does a reasonable and loving human being do? How do we act? Answer that one for yourselves.

I fear that writers like Mike Adams like a little too much to stir up foments. This totally turns me off. If he had written just a little, posted the original report in its entirety and then asked his readers to make comments instead of attempting to get his readers emotionally flipped, I would have more respect for him.

The truth, the real truth is that none of us have the whole story. We cannot make a single judgement. But we can pray. And when we see someone (the "neighbor" that Jesus told about) in need then we might step in and help if possible. But gossip, like what Mike A just did is totally unhelpful to all parties.
IMHO
-annie

Edited by: ANIDUCK at: 3/31/2011 (00:13)
Hospitals are terrific for traumatic care; for acute care. They do a really, really good job in saving lives when it’s a sudden bleeding emergency. But in terms of chronic care, they’re terrible; (that is) in terms of the illnesses that most people have, endure, that cost the most money, that last the longest and ultimately die from. -Dr. Andrew Saul


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FIT_ARTIST's Photo FIT_ARTIST SparkPoints: (111,854)
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3/30/11 10:43 P

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Yep. That's the movie on there...

~Laura

"If it tastes good; Spit it out!" ~ Jack Lalanne

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RARANM's Photo RARANM Posts: 664
3/30/11 9:51 P

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YEAH POST THAT! I would love to see it! Is it the on on this page: www.gersonmedia.com/DVDs.html

I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, "Move from here to there" and it will move. -Matthew 17:20

"Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge. Remedies from chemicals will never stand in favour compared with the products of nature, the living cell of the plant, the final result of the rays of the sun, the mother of all life."
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3/30/11 9:40 P

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Well, I guess he just feels passionate about his reporting. I like him, but when I read his stories now, I just sort of take them with a grain of salt.

Oh! Interesting tidbit regarding vaccinations. There was a man briefly interviewed on Dying To Know (Max Gerson documentary). He said his neighbour across the street has a father who is an immunologist (sp?) for a pharmaceutical company. He makes vaccines. He told his daughter that she will NOT have her kids (his grandchildren) vaccinated EVER. Interesting, eh?
I should repost this on Natural Healing team...

~Laura

"If it tastes good; Spit it out!" ~ Jack Lalanne

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RARANM's Photo RARANM Posts: 664
3/30/11 8:45 P

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I love that you called him a drama queen. I have to agree. I just wonder why it is that way. What does he get from it?

I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, "Move from here to there" and it will move. -Matthew 17:20

"Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge. Remedies from chemicals will never stand in favour compared with the products of nature, the living cell of the plant, the final result of the rays of the sun, the mother of all life."
- T. A. Edison


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RARANM's Photo RARANM Posts: 664
3/30/11 8:44 P

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Hmmm. Yeah the story sounds completely off from what Mike Adams reported. Vegans don't neccessarily eat raw.

The way this is put bothers me: "Along with holding to an uncooked food philosophy, investigators found the Andressohns had strong beliefs in home schooling, doctors only in a necessity, no immunizations and enemas for all."

They make it sound like home schooling is like satan worshiping. Kind of made me laugh to read it. I definately think that is a personal choice.

First is says that the baby's diet of uncooked grains and fruit was the cause of death and then it says later in the article that the baby only ate wheat grass juice, coconut water and almond milk.

Something is missing from this article too.

I think we all know how I feel about vaccinations (calling them immunizations is one of my pet peeves.)

Enemas for all? What? Even for the children? What? For what reason? What?...


I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, "Move from here to there" and it will move. -Matthew 17:20

"Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge. Remedies from chemicals will never stand in favour compared with the products of nature, the living cell of the plant, the final result of the rays of the sun, the mother of all life."
- T. A. Edison


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3/30/11 8:24 P

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Nice find, Laura!! Not a surprise.

Mike Adams certainly IS a bit of a drama queen.

RARANM I understand completely! I went through it with my DD. I think it is hard especially the first time around, because it is so new. BUT that being said, as pro breastfeeding as I am I would NEVER, EVER shame anyone for doing formula. It really is a choice!

*Amber*
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3/30/11 8:07 P

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Ah ha! I was right. The VEGAN thing is the couples' lawyer using THAT as a defence. They are not being punished for being vegan at all. Here's the story as reported by CBS.

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/20/n
at
ional/main668225.shtml?tag=mncol;lst;6




~Laura

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3/30/11 7:59 P

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You know... Mike Adams is just a BIT of a drama queen too. He likes to put his SLANT on his stories. You are probably right Amber. I can almost be sure that the courts did not charge them with VEGANISM, most likely a child neglect charge leading and resulting in death. I have a funny feeling Mike has slanted this his way... in fact, I'm gonna go a nd google some news sites right now and see what they say.

Of course, I have just noticed that Mike has omitted ANY details regarding the place of the incident. There really is no way to substantiate or disprove what he has reported...

Edited by: FIT_ARTIST at: 3/30/2011 (20:01)
~Laura

"If it tastes good; Spit it out!" ~ Jack Lalanne

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3/30/11 7:52 P

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Yeah I think the reason I can't stop thinking about it is because there are so many unknowns. There is a big hole in the article that I want to justify in my mind and fill in te blanks. Seems it was left that way to let people come up with their own assumptions, and he probably knew what it would be.

My son was formula fed, but not exclussively from the start. I did both until about 2.5 months. It was complicated for me. Being a new mom I had a hard time getting breastfeeding down, and my son had a hard time latching it seemed, but I also didn't get a lot of positive help from the nurses in the hospital and formula was pushed by them, not by my doctor, but by one particular nurse with a lack of patience for a new mom. She also came to work sick, handled my son without a mask on. Second time she came in she had a mask on and said it was becuase she had a cold and I wanted to knock her upside her head. Anyway, to make a long story even longer I don't neccessarily regret switching to formula, but I wish breast feeding would have worked better for us.

I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, "Move from here to there" and it will move. -Matthew 17:20

"Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge. Remedies from chemicals will never stand in favour compared with the products of nature, the living cell of the plant, the final result of the rays of the sun, the mother of all life."
- T. A. Edison


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3/30/11 7:28 P

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I've been thinking about this article all day, too. Like I said below is that what bothers me the most is they took away the notion of a baby's failure to thrive (which the parents neglected to do anything about) and God help anyone who takes this article as gospel because instead of taking the LOGICAL stand-point of, if you're Vegan and breastfeeding, make sure you're getting in a good prenatal vitamin and discuss your lifestyle choice with the baby's doctor to ensure that you're getting what you need so baby doesn't suffer. Instead he calls formula "junk food" which, in all due respect, is NOT true. Granted, I am a very pro breastfeeding person, but if it boils down to a baby's failure to thrive vs. formula feeding, I think I would take the formula. I know plenty of kids that were raised on formula and turned out perfect. My DD was one of them. She quit nursing when I went back to work -- NOT by my choice, but rather her's. It was heartbreaking and a very hard thing for me to do. I look at her, she's Student of the Month, in the Honor's Society, a fantastic artist and good at just about everything she does. Straight A's, honor roll, the whole ball of wax. Do I regret my decision to put her on formula? No, not for a second, it was the right choice for her. I didn't want it that way, but... Both of my boys were breastfeed exclusively and as long as things go the way I want with this baby, this one will, too. It is hard but sometimes it just boils down to common sense.

I see where you're going with your viewpoints, but I don't get that from this article at all. I am VERY hard pressed to believe that these parents are being prosecuted for being vegans. That just doesn't fly with me. I am not saying that is impossible, but not likely. Rather, I would be willing to take this as the parents are being prosecuted for not taking care of that poor little baby and failed to do something about it. There would have been signs. I think Mike Adams took this article and something was mentioned about the parents being vegan and he ran with that. Looking at the state of things, you never know...

This article doesn't set well with me in so many regards.


Edited by: A*L*P* at: 3/30/2011 (19:33)
*Amber*
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RARANM's Photo RARANM Posts: 664
3/30/11 7:17 P

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I've been thinking about this article all day. I think what bothers me is there are sick and dying children all over. Children being fed really unhealthy food by well intentioned parents that don't know what else to do or maybe some that figure it is not a big deal. They may not look like they are dying. They may be obese or they may show signs that you or I would see as sicknes and internally they are rotting but their parents may not see it that way. Is that not just as wrong? What about parents that smoke and smoke around their children. Are they not dying? Do their parents not notice they are sick? Do they see their sick children and not think to do something to help them? Why are the police not called on them? When an officer pulls over a car witha child in the back seat and an obvious stench of stale smoke, are they arrested for putting their child at harm? Why are McDonalds' and Taco Bells not raided? They'd get their quota.

Today my insurance broker e-mailed me because it is time to renew. Listed are myself and my son with our ages and after both our names it says "non-smoker." If I smoked would it say "smoker" next to my son's name? Seems ridiculous and I almost laughed when I read it after his age..."3." If my son was taking that in he would, in fact, be smoking and we all know 2nd hand smoke kills. So, would all of those parents deserve 30 years in prison? Do those parents get 30 years in prison? Do they get prison time? Or are they just labeled as ignorant while everyone quietly watches from the corners of their eyes, make remarks under their breath but never really say anything? Why is it OK for them?

Here's a sticky one, what about all of the parents that choose to vaccinate and there child gets injured. Should they be thrown in prison? The pharmaceutical companies have no responsibility so who should be at fault.

I realize that they tried to make it a "vegan" thing but when you look at the big picture it is much more grimm. I don't see this as about "Baby" per say, I see this as about BABIES. Our precious babies. Children all over the world suffering just like this for various different reasons.

I realize I've gone off on several tangents. I just can't stop thinking about it.



I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, "Move from here to there" and it will move. -Matthew 17:20

"Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge. Remedies from chemicals will never stand in favour compared with the products of nature, the living cell of the plant, the final result of the rays of the sun, the mother of all life."
- T. A. Edison


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3/30/11 5:11 P

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You are absolutely right, AMber. It's become a VEGAN issue rather than a BABY issue.
A baby doesn't just drop dead all of a sudden from lack of vitamins. There must have been deteriorating oh health, or failure to thrive, like Amber had said. Didn't these people notice anything wrong???? Didn't they take the baby for checkups to the doctor????

~Laura

"If it tastes good; Spit it out!" ~ Jack Lalanne

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ANIDUCK's Photo ANIDUCK Posts: 10,850
3/30/11 2:27 P

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Me too. Keep the spark!!
emoticon

Hospitals are terrific for traumatic care; for acute care. They do a really, really good job in saving lives when it’s a sudden bleeding emergency. But in terms of chronic care, they’re terrible; (that is) in terms of the illnesses that most people have, endure, that cost the most money, that last the longest and ultimately die from. -Dr. Andrew Saul


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RARANM's Photo RARANM Posts: 664
3/30/11 12:03 P

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I love all of the participation. All good points!

I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, "Move from here to there" and it will move. -Matthew 17:20

"Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge. Remedies from chemicals will never stand in favour compared with the products of nature, the living cell of the plant, the final result of the rays of the sun, the mother of all life."
- T. A. Edison


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JSPEED4's Photo JSPEED4 Posts: 1,674
3/30/11 12:02 P

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A little nutritional yeast formulated for vegans takes all the fight out of the courts. I'd recommend this to anybody who has children in the family since our society pays lip-service to taking care of children, but won't fire a teacher who is mean to them if s/he is tenured.

J. Speed Eastern Standard Time, UTC/GMT -5
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A*L*P*'s Photo A*L*P* SparkPoints: (70,443)
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3/30/11 11:55 A

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I am on a roll today... I just went and posted this on his FB page:

"Um, yeah, this article angers me in so many ways. Mike Adams, I believe you are using this to fuel your pro-vegan agenda. NOTHING was said about the state of this poor little baby before the ambulance was called. If this baby was deficient in vitamins A and B-12, there WOULD HAVE BEEN SIGNS. I HIGHLY doubt that the ambulance workers were taking the time to scour the parents cupboards to check to see if the parents were vegan while they were responding to this sad, tragic event. If the parents are being investigated I would be willing to lean on the fact that it is because they were not reporting a failure to thrive baby, NOT because they were vegan, for God's sake! Furthermore, you insist that parents "run and hide" if they're vegan. Why instead don't you encourage vegan moms who are breastfeeding to TALK TO THE BABY'S PEDIATRICIAN and discuss nutrition so she can live her vegan lifestyle AND breastfeed her baby successfully because, YES IT CAN BE DONE. This article is WRONG on SO MANY FRONTS it makes me ill. Also, NEVER have I had ANY DOCTOR push formula on me. NEVER. In fact, more often the reverse is true, doctors (at least where I live) push breastfeeding and tend to look down on formula. I am currently expecting, I have successfully breastfed 3 babies and plan to do so with this one but you know what? My doctor did NOT push formula on me, in fact just the opposite, they promote breastfeeding, they have representatives from the La Leche League get in touch with you to help success in the breastfeeding venture. I love your information, but will no longer be subscribing to your information. We all have our slants, but this takes it to the very extreme.. Mike, this makes me sick. I am done with Natural News and you. 'Nuff said."

I have liked his information in the past, but this one upsets me on so many levels. I am done, unsubscribed from his FB page and will no longer be looking at his information. GRRRR!!!

*Amber*
~ALP for the BLC~


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3/30/11 11:38 A

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Agreed, Annie! 100%!!

*Amber*
~ALP for the BLC~


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ANIDUCK's Photo ANIDUCK Posts: 10,850
3/30/11 11:37 A

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Amber I agree with you 100%. Sometimes, not all the time, Mike Adams' articles sound more like a gossip rag. In reading through it so many questions came to mind. There's a lot of vegan propaganda out there that wants to set up "we/us" wars. Not all vegans do that and many vegans quietly and seriously follow their veganism without dissing on those of us who aren't. But this feels like it comes from a rather self righteous point of view that typically leaves out some very important points (like what Amber brings up) and desires to stir up hatred and blame. Veganism, like a lot of "isms" has its fringe AND has its unlearned followers. Shoot, most vegans I have talked to are of the unlearned type. They are just following an idealism and not thinking about nutrition. Most of these vegans are quite young and they easily get sucked in to the vegan marketing madness.

I think I got off subject a little.
I DO NOT like this article; makes me ill in my head. I think Mike Adams must be running out of good ideas to post something like that.
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Hospitals are terrific for traumatic care; for acute care. They do a really, really good job in saving lives when it’s a sudden bleeding emergency. But in terms of chronic care, they’re terrible; (that is) in terms of the illnesses that most people have, endure, that cost the most money, that last the longest and ultimately die from. -Dr. Andrew Saul


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3/30/11 10:46 A

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I agree ALP sometimes Natural News is a bit "out there"

I have heard of a push for formula in poorer countries but not sure if that's true.



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3/30/11 10:41 A

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How sad for that family to lose their child. Especially if this could have been prevented. I wonder if the deficiencies is what was really responsible for the death or more of a contributing factor. Being vegan could have had absolutely nothing to do with the death it could have been absorption issues. It highlights that as much as we want to poo poo conventional medicine we all still need to get tests have physicals to make sure that we are getting our essential and optimal nutrients.

BTW - B12 is essential and required for everyone. There are plenty of people (both veg and omni) that can't absorb it. If you are a vegan you need to supplement. Some camps think you can get it from the veggies if they still have dirt on them or sea vegetables. This may have been true in the past, however, our soil is now dead and our veggies aren't as nutritious as they used to be. B12 deficiency is serious and not worth the risk.



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3/30/11 10:31 A

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There are tons of vegans who raise health children. But people do tend to scorn what they don't fully understand.

~Michelle Macari in St George UT~ Lifestyles of the fit and meatless!
What is it that should trace the insuperable line?… The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer? —Jeremy Bentham (1748–1832)
A dead cow or sheep lying in the pasture is recognized as carrion. The same sort of carcass dressed and hung up in a butcher’s stall passes as food. —J. H.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUMUvYLC5iM
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3/30/11 10:25 A

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Hmmmm. My problem with this article? Well, I have a few. There was no focus on the baby. I think that these parents might be questioned NOT because they're vegan but more over that they have a failure to thrive baby. I don't like this article because it doesn't talk much about the baby or what its issues were aside from being low in 2 essential aspects. For me (and I've breastfed 3 babies) I think it is more irresponsibility on the parents part for neglecting to notice the baby's failure to thrive. Which there would have been -- most likely vomiting, sickly complexion and lethargy. To me, that should be the focus of this article -- how to make sure your breastfed baby is thriving NOT being so concerned with what is in the parent's cupboards. Phooey. Sorry, I saw this article on FB yesterday and it about made me sick. I think they've twisted something very serious about a baby's failure to thrive and turned it into propaganda for their pro-vegan stance. I think that *maybe* they should have focused on the vegan parents to be very UP FRONT with the baby's pediatrician about their vegan lifestyle if they are indeed going to breastfeed (yes it CAN be done, and no vegans DON"T need to run and hide as this article instructs them to do) so she could be sure that she's taking inthe proper supplements to ensure her baby gets what baby needs.

Another thing that I have a BIG problem with is I think (at least with my own personal experience) is I have NEVER heard of a hospital or doctor push formula. Never! Maybe it is just my neck of the woods but they are pro breastfeeding all the way. I have heard of several accounts (all from people I know) that the hospital has given them flack for choosing to formula feed and not breastfeed. I don't doubt that formula pushing does happen, but in my own limited experience, formula pushing does come from a mom who is having difficulty with breastfeeding and/or the baby isn't able to thrive from breastfeeding. Yes I am sure that some of these docs get great money from the formula companies, in fact my own doctor (I am currently 22 wks pregnant) has a bunch of Similac products like a free diaper bag loaded with formula coupons, a pregnancy journal that is put out by Similac. But my doctor's office at my first appointment said that they fully encourage breastfeeding over formula feeding.

Sorry, I don't like this article and think it is a poor choice to loose focus on what the big problem really is. a baby's failure to thrive. That is most likely why the police were called NOT because they were vegan. Sorry. Truly, truly dislike this article. This article angers me on so many levels. Who knows though, I could be wrong, maybe the police took the time to scour their cupboards while they were investigating THE DEATH OF A BABY but somehow, that just doesn't register on my Crap-o-meter. That baby would have shown signs -- most likely vomiting a pale complexion and lethargy.

Sorry, just my opinion.

Edited by: A*L*P* at: 3/30/2011 (10:35)
*Amber*
~ALP for the BLC~


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3/30/11 10:03 A

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www.naturalnews.com/031883_vegans_cr
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inals.html


I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, "Move from here to there" and it will move. -Matthew 17:20

"Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge. Remedies from chemicals will never stand in favour compared with the products of nature, the living cell of the plant, the final result of the rays of the sun, the mother of all life."
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