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2/9/13 9:12 P

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I'm not overly worried but now that I'm aware it can still be going on, I have to get proper blood panels.

It's easy to take supplements--and I prefer whole food solutions--BUT if supplements are again called for, I won't fight it.

I want to be functioning optimally!

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,101
2/9/13 8:37 P

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I don't have celiac but may still have leaky gut syndrome or at least used to, even a year after giving up grains. I assume that's where my diary sensitivity comes from, but not sure. In any case, I suspect that I am also not absorbing all the minerals from food that I should. With some things that have a wide safety margin, like magnesium and salt I just like to take a little extra.

Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

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2/9/13 8:11 P

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Thanks! Apart from the fruit, I eat all you mentioned. I've consumed at least 4 gallons (raw) of spinach, chard, kale, etc this week. I truly eat A LOT if leafy greens! I eat salmon a few times a week (also trout).

With Celiac, you just don't absorb the nutrients (I stated somewhere I took RX supplements from infancy but stopped when I moved out at 15). I'm probably doing FAB on intake, just not absorption. We'll figure it out!



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2/9/13 7:53 P

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Lily ~ I know where you are coming from... I too have so many allergies that I have to be *really* careful. It get's pretty interesting trying to eat right and lose weight and not eat anything I'm not supposed to be eating!

I think if you stuck with the vegetables, spinach, avocados, acorn squash; meat, salmon; and fruit bananas, cherries, and dried apricots you'll be keeping your potassium at a great level.

Good luck with your challenge!

Blessings,
Collien~~~

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2/9/13 6:58 P

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Colleen,

Thanks! A banana has about 1/10 recommended. I don't eat legumes, citrus, nightshades (white potato, tomatoes, etc).

Preliminary talks with dr (my test will be a little more than a week away now) seem to show I do need a supplement between the obvious Celiac problem and then all my personal list if foods I cannot digest OR are lupus triggers.

I've been eating a banana a day since thinking this may be an issue and I'll try some cherries as I can tolerate them (limited food challenges done with it previously) and to be honest -- I don't eat much fruit other than strawberries cos I don't LIKE it; I prefer veg.

If it's the fuel I need, I'll incorporate it!

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2/9/13 4:09 P

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Potassium is one of the easiest elements to get in the food you eat... The 10 foods containing the highest amount of potassium are listed in this article:

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articl
es/food-sources-of-potassium.php

I will say it does include 2 that are not on my diet... white potatoes and legumes. Although it is missing one of my favorites... black cherries. Six black cherries have more potassium than a banana.

Blessings,
Collien~~~

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2/8/13 1:33 P

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Thanks, Cindy.

I can't digest legumes (not a question of playing a good paleo, unfortunately) and I *do* cheat on nightshades now and then but not enough to help.

I eat TONNES of leafy green veg (chard, spinach and kale were in all my meals this week -- without thinking about potassium!).

I appreciate the ideas. I may indulge in tomatoes a little more (usually wait for when they're ripe from the garden).

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CINDYTW Posts: 5,783
2/8/13 12:17 P

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I have had a diagnosed potassium deficiency before and the higest sources I found were lima beans, swiss chard and low sodium V8. I know you don't do nightshades, and beans aren't really Paleo, so that leaves Swiss Chard! Spinach and collard greens are high too, but not every entry in SP tracker shows it. I look for different ones til I find one that DOES show potassium and look at other sources that might as was suggested before.

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2/7/13 12:00 P

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Thanks, Kitty!

I eat sweet potatoes now and then but my tracker ALSO short-changed them. I'm going to the doctor and should have quantitative levels by a couple of weeks.

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2/7/13 11:40 A

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one thing I haven't seen mentioned here, (since we're also talking about symptoms, etc) is that Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and potassium need to be balanced for our bodies to work right. Good thing it generally does that naturally.

OH, and the option of using the low sodium "salt" on the shelves to raise the potassium levels somewhat, but I'd be scared to use it exclusively. maybe buy the blend? you need salt too. especially when not eating the higher carb foods.

anyway, each person is going to have to find what works for them
About foods high in potassium, I found this page. www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/
fo
od-sources-of-potassium.php

see the note under baked white potatoes, where it gives information on Sweet potatoes which are actually a bit richer in potassium than the nightshade varieties. Also note at the bottom of the page the info on herbs which also contribute to potassium levels (and flavor of course, but could also be used as an herbal drink).

Hope this helps. It seems to me that in the case of potassium, it's a matter of keeping a list of the top contenders and preferring those foods over others, if you don't want to go the supplement route,

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all they ways, acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6


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2/7/13 9:50 A

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I'd like to thank everybody for pointing out it's not on things.

I don't eat foods with labels, though. However, I track my whole foods, of course! I went looking for more info on the leafy greens I eat tons of and found some trackers (mine included) is spotty. Some items (like spinach) is given. Some (like chard) showed zero BUT nutritiondata says:

The good: This food is very low in Saturated Fat and Cholesterol. It is also a good source of Thiamin, Folate and Zinc, and a very good source of Dietary Fiber, Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin E (Alpha Tocopherol), Vitamin K, Riboflavin, Vitamin B6, Calcium, Iron, Magnesium, Phosphorus, Potassium, Copper and Manganese.

The bad: This food is very high in Sodium.

nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetab
le
s-and-vegetable-products/2399/2#ixzzR>2KDuWPtD7


They say good source of potassium but it shows NOTHING on the 'label.' BAH!

This one (thanks, Brigit) www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/low-
ca
rb-diet-side-effects.html


perfectly describes my situation. And is what brought me here, wondering if others experienced similar!

I've rang my GP's office. The RN said that they really SHOULD have checked me in Dec (my yearly) but didn't. So, now she said come back in. It's flu season, so I cannot get in til the 15th but I'll go in then. We discussed the fact that I'm probably getting enough but it's worth checking, especially since my diet is so restrictive (avoiding lupus triggers and being Celiac means malabsorption, which I already talked about being a life-long issue).

Thanks for the input. I'll know for sure in about 2 weeks!

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LILY_SPARK's Photo LILY_SPARK SparkPoints: (92,535)
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2/7/13 9:20 A

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I didn't say that I'm WELL INFORMED. I said that I'm reading deeper. I also shared private information, which is putting myself out there, making my private life vulnerable.

Obviously, I inadvertently offended you. I'm sorry for that. Please ignore any of my future offensive posts.

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,101
2/7/13 1:19 A

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Yes, Chris Kresser put it very well. And before I forget, when I add sodium in the form of broth I use about 500-800 mg of sodium in the winter on low-exercise days. If I sweat a lot I think it will be a lot more. My guess is that my sodium use in food (salting) has at least doubled from about 1500 mg/day to aout 3000 mg/day. There are a lot of individual differences so don't anyone take that as a guide. My blood pressure is on the low side and always has been. I tend to sweat a lot so lose extra salt that way. Everyone needs to experiment with what their body needs.
Making changes like this in small increments is probably the safest if you don't consult a physician.
Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 2/7/2013 (01:20)
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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 5,229
2/7/13 12:58 A

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Well said, Birgit!
emoticon

I just wanted to add this from Chris Kresser, because it puts it all in a concise Paleo nutshell:

"In a perfect world, none of us would ever need to take supplements. We'd be able to meet all of our nutritional needs through food, our sleep would be deep and restful, we'd get plenty of exercise, we'd live in a pristine environment without chemicals and toxins, we'd have minimal amounts of stress, we'd live in a tightknit community with close, meaningful relationships and we'd have plenty of time for leisure and fun. We would have been born naturally to a mother that was equally healthy, been breastfed exclusively for 2 years, ate a Paleo or Real Food diet throughout our entire childhood and never taken antibiotics.

Okay. Raise your hand if this describes your experience. If you've got your hand in the air, you can probably stop reading this.

But if you're like the rest of us, this doesn't describe your life. You don't sleep as much as you'd like. You're stressed out. You work at a desk, and even though you go to the gym a few times a week, you know sitting all day isn't healthy. You live in the city and you're exposed to chemicals and toxins every day. Your mom had autoimmune disease and it looks like she passed those genes down to you. Or maybe you were born via c-section and/or not breastfed, or you took antibiotics for acne as a teenager, and now your gut is screwed up. Unfortunately, this is not unusual. It's the rule, not the exception."


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,101
2/7/13 12:46 A

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I think I can see both sides, the staying with natural sources and the supplementing. If I ate a perfect diet (getting most of my plant foods from wild plants and getting most of my animals foods from wild sources as well that are also not polluted much) and if I had always eaten that way then supplementing may indeed not be necessary.
But most commercially grown food, even organic food, is lacking minerals because most soils have not been properly managed. Most fruit is bred for increased sugar content and even vegetables are often bred for sweetness or uniform size and shape and are ripened after harvest.
I've eaten mostly local and organic for the last 2 years but my poor dietary history (sugar and carb addiction) has done quite the number on my body, causing insulin resistance (finally under control), cancer (no proof, but pretty sure in retrospect) and hypothyroidism (also almost under control). There are few people these days who do not benefit from a therapeutic diet and some supplements. There are also some supplements that may not be essential right now but will prolong our qualiy of life. Coenzyme Q10 seems to fall in that category as our body produces less of it as we age.
Many requirements for supplements are the result of unhealthy life styles including unhealthy sleep patterns and/or stress, work conditions, exposure to toxic substances etc. all of which can be counteracted through supplements. I know people, who could not lead normal lives if they did not take mega doses of milkthistle which helps cleanse their liver.
After all this you may wonder if I work for a supplement company, LOL, but I have just learned over the years that food is not perfect the way I believe God originally designed it as ideal replacement parts for our body. Humans have messed with our food supply for a long time and the closer we can get to the original design the healthier it probably is. In the meantime we need to make adjustments. emoticon

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 2/7/2013 (00:48)
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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 5,229
2/7/13 12:22 A

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Hi, Taren!

As for nutrition panels, I'm eating whole, fresh, unprocessed food, so whatever comes up in my tracker is from the Spark nutrition bank (any whole fresh foods I buy don't have nutrition panels)... so I seriously doubt I get too much.

While IDEALLY we get all of the nutrients we need from whole food, as I already stated, I supplement certain things (FDA approved) for very specifc reasons... if you've been ill long enough, and your gut/liver damage severe enough, supplements can be an essential element in the healing process... we are all an n=1 experiment.

There are arguments to be made for supplementing by many 'front and centre' paleoists:

Are supplements really necessary?
chriskresser.com/are-supplements-rea
ll
y-necessary


Beyond Paleo: Supplement Wisely
chriskresser.com/beyond-paleo-5

Grok Didn’t Take Supplements So Why Should I?
www.marksdailyapple.com/definitive-g
ui
de-to-primal-supplementation/#axzz2KR>BCJeAyb


Managing Your Mitochondria: Nutrients and Supplements
www.marksdailyapple.com/managing-you
r-
mitochondria-nutrients-and-supplemenR>ts/#axzz2KBCvFp37


The Real Deal on Adrenal Fatigue
robbwolf.com/2012/04/09/real-deal-ad
re
nal-fatigue/


...so I'd have to disagree with you re: "A lot of the reason most people go paleo/primal kind of goes out the window when adding unnatural sources." Frankly, I think that is a really elitist statement that doesn't fully embrace the spirit of Paleo/Primal... which is to live/eat in a way that prioritizes/supports the science behind true health and well-being. There are very few people who can actually realize the 'ideal' in every way. Everyone has to find their own best application of the philosophy that is Paleo/Primal, and every little change toward something 'whole foods based' is beneficial, no matter how far it falls short of the ideal.

I 'went paleo/primal' to improve my health and that of my daughter... for now, supplementation is part of the picture helping us to achieve that.

As for bloodwork... we all know how helpful that is with respect to most of the concerns with regard to cardiac health and health in general... that's pretty much central to the scientific arguments 'Paleo' inspires people to acknowledge. Feeling ill and incapacitated most of my life, at this point, I'll put a lot more trust in my body and how I feel, than in bloodwork (which has always come back in 'normal' ranges no matter what has been tested... while feeling ill and incapacitated).

emoticon

Thanks for the links, Birgit!

Edited by: _RAMONA at: 2/7/2013 (00:33)

'An Apple A Day' keeps the doctor away...
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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
2/7/13 12:05 A

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I agree with the idea that K is not required to be on the labels. Even in foods you manually enter, you might have some potassium that isn't listed.

You can just type in to Google. "potassium content in ____". Check all the foods you have and if there is no potassium, Google them. I wouldn't add potassium, unless you get bloodwork done, and your doctor says that you are low.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,101
2/6/13 11:50 P

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I'm a little under the weather so too lazy to do much digging in my books but this link is helpful:

www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/recommend
ed
-reading/729321-low-carbers-salt-dizR>ziness-muscle-weakness-fatigue.html


www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/low-
ca
rb-diet-side-effects.html


If you google low-carb and salt there is a lot more stuff coming up.

I also read somewhere that some potassium is not that easily absorbed and that might go for food as well as supplements. Typical potassium supplements only have 3% of recommended daily allowance and there may be a reason for that.
Maybe we all need to do some more research on this as it comes up a lot.
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

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TAREN584's Photo TAREN584 Posts: 700
2/6/13 8:01 P

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Hey, I just had a though about this as to why you all might be coming up short on potassium. If you are going straight from the nutrition panel, potassium isn't something that is required to list. Some do, some don't. This is where I would be concerned with getting too much.

I would definitely try to add more natural sources before supplementing with synthetic sources. It would be really hard to overdose on natural sources. A lot of the reason most people go paleo/primal kind of goes out the window when adding unnatural sources. Also they are not FDA approved so unless you do a chemical analysis on it, as far as you know, you could just have a sugar pill- a very expensive sugar pill.

_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 5,229
2/6/13 7:53 P

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Thanks for sharing, Birgit! I'll look up the books.

I read the salt theory on Chris Kresser's site... he had a whole series:

Shaking Up The Salt Myth: Healthy Salt Recommendations
chriskresser.com/shaking-up-the-salt
-m
yth-healthy-salt-recommendations


I upped my salt substantially (I salt everything to taste.. I certainly don't limit my salt at all)... are you saying that perhaps I need to up it even more?

How might I discern if my issue is too little salt, or too little potassium (or perhaps too much salt)?

How much 'salt' do you think is in your broth each evening?

I don't find I'm peeing overly much... and I've never had any muscle cramping of any kind.

I'd appreciate any further feedback you'd care to offer.

Edited by: _RAMONA at: 2/6/2013 (22:11)

'An Apple A Day' keeps the doctor away...
www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-bluep
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NOTE: My weight tracker is NOT a truthful representation of my weight. Instead, I am using it as a tool to help me visualize my goal as though it's already been achieved!

www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,101
2/6/13 7:36 P

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I remember reading several times, wish I remembered where, that if you eat low-carb your body needs more sodium (table salt) because your kidneys will eliminate more. This could easily be 2 grams more. If you don't get enough sodium your body will dump potassium to maintain the sodium/potassium balance, even if you get enough potassium through your food and/or supplements. I can only say that that worked for me. I used to get leg cramps at night in spite of generous magnesium supplements. I drink a cup of salty broth at night and add more salt to my food and the cramping goes away. I'm pretty sure I read it here:
www.amazon.com/The-Great-Cholesterol
-M
yth-Disease/dp/1592335217/ref=pd_bxgR>y_b_img_y

and here:
www.amazon.com/Art-Science-Low-Carbo
hy
drate-Living/dp/0983490708


Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 2/6/2013 (19:37)
You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 5,229
2/6/13 6:53 P

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Being the exemplary researcher that you are, I'm not surprised you've read 'deeper'... the link is for anyone else encountering the thread who may need a place to start.
emoticon

...I wonder though... if you're so well informed, why are you asking us (what is it that you really want to know)?
emoticon

Edited by: _RAMONA at: 2/7/2013 (10:30)

'An Apple A Day' keeps the doctor away...
www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-bluep
rint-101/#axzz28X8ooJ1H



NOTE: My weight tracker is NOT a truthful representation of my weight. Instead, I am using it as a tool to help me visualize my goal as though it's already been achieved!

www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=2108522


 current weight: 135.0 
 
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2/6/13 6:18 P

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I'm Celiac with a history (since childhood) of taking supplements due to malabsorption. I agree it's wise to get blood panels and I've read deeper (so far) than the article you linked--thanks, though!

I'm almost certain that I'm moderately under.

Thanks again!

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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 5,229
2/6/13 5:43 P

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Hi, Lily!

I supplement potassium (Jameison, timed release)... and I've had a few doctors have a fit to know that I do (one wanted to know how I was getting it... she didn't even realize it is sold over the counter... which is why I don't worry overly much about the doctor). My understanding is that if you have heart disease or kidney problems, there's a fine balance to potassium levels... it can be therapeutic and you can get too much.

www.webmd.com/heart-disease/potassiu
m-
and-your-heart


I choose to supplement (despite doctor fear) because even though I eat a really clean, fresh diet, my potassium comes up consistently low on the tracker (even though I eat LOTS of broccoli, fish, grapefruit, crucifers, dates), due to gut damage I don't believe I absorb nutrients as efficiently as I should, I believe even the best food is nutrient poorer these days, and I feel better when I do.

Since taking potassium my blood pressure has improved, as have my cholesterol levels (though this can be due to multiple factors), and my body deals with fluids better. If I stop taking the potassium, I swell up like a ballon within hours (and my blood pressure goes through the roof)... I can gain 10 lbs. overnight.

Since my doctor can't explain THAT, and I'd prefer to not take diuretics (or blood pressure medication), this is my solution (if I still have doctor concerning health issues once I've elminated the fat, and I've healed my gut/hormonal issues I'll reconsider... hopefully by then I'll have found myself a Paleo doctor).

I do think it is a discussion worth having with your doctor... then you can make a decision that is less likely to make your situation worse.

Edited by: _RAMONA at: 2/6/2013 (17:50)

'An Apple A Day' keeps the doctor away...
www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-bluep
rint-101/#axzz28X8ooJ1H



NOTE: My weight tracker is NOT a truthful representation of my weight. Instead, I am using it as a tool to help me visualize my goal as though it's already been achieved!

www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=2108522


 current weight: 135.0 
 
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KITTYF54's Photo KITTYF54 Posts: 4,742
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I'd do a search for best sources of dietary potassium. I've never worried about it unless I'm taking water pills (never since starting low carb) or unless I get symptoms of low potassium. I'm also doing no dairy and no nightshades but do eat broccoli. some greens have high potassium I believe, but an internet search would give you a list to draw from.

otherwise, you can buy potassium supplements at your favorite source.

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all they ways, acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6


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2/6/13 5:06 P

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HI all!

I'm coming here because I eat closer to Paleo than anything else, although I eat stricter!

No dairy, not even grass-fed, it's about lactose AND casein (okay, I cheat but I pay for it)
No nightshades
No broccoli
No citrus

This was brought to my attention, that I may be low. I looked at my tracker and it shows I'm getting less than half the daily recommendation (over the past 90 days, which reflects my eating for over 2 years).

It's in foods I eat (red meat, salmon, greens) but I'm coming up SHORT.

Anybody want to share / rec a supplement?

TIA!



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