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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 7,974
8/20/12 11:56 A

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My perspective on the carnivore, omnivore, herbivore is shaped by owning animal species that fit in each category. My horse is clearly an herbivore. She shows no interest in eating meat of any kind and has the kind of teeth to chew and digest plants. My dogs are clearly omnivores, they would eat meat only but survive just fine on a diet of carbs when they have to (including grain, but it damages a dog's health just like that of people if eaten in larger quantities). My cats will have a very strong preference for animal-based protein and do very poorly on a carb-based diet. In fact cats can not be fed a vegan diet or they will die.
Since there are healthy vegans and healthy meat-only eaters people are clearly omnivores but there may be differences among people groups for what works best.
I have yet to see evidence that grains or beans benefit anyone since all the nutrients in them can be gotten from other plant foods (veggies and oily seeds).
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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SIMPLEMAW Posts: 4,136
8/20/12 10:46 A

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Christina, I have also seen lots of information on how the human digestive system IS designed to eat mostly meat. There seems to be research "proving" both positions, probably depending on what the researcher wants to prove. It definitely makes it difficult.

I hope you can find the information you are looking for about doing Paleo as a vegetarian. I know I've seen it recently, just can't remember where.

CHRISTINASP's Photo CHRISTINASP Posts: 1,856
8/20/12 8:17 A

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Thank you... In the meantime I received the book by Gedgaudas... Also found an interesting discussion of the topic here: www.quora.com/Paleo-Diet/How-does-on
e-
embark-on-Paleo-diet-and-be-a-vegetaR>rian-at-same-time


Keep it simple.


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 7,974
7/8/12 1:40 A

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I would definitely read Nora Gedgaudas book Primal Mind, Primal Body. I also highly recommend the blog by Peter Attia. He has links on the bottom right of his page to many other important blogs and websites. Here is a link to his FAQ as a start:
eatingacademy.com/quick-faq

Also check out undergroundwellness .com

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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CHRISTINASP's Photo CHRISTINASP Posts: 1,856
7/7/12 1:02 P

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Thanks again for the tips and the resources. I have been doing some reading on the Marks daily apple site. The page on vegetarians there didn't help me much (yet, I may need to check again).
I really appreciate the replies from all of you.

Keep it simple.


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CMSLOCUM1's Photo CMSLOCUM1 SparkPoints: (949)
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7/7/12 10:28 A

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I totally agree that we each have to find our own way. I did read somewhere last week that Tony Horton of Beach Body and P90X eats Paleo Vegetarian so you might could find some info there as well.


Sweat is just your fat crying!


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CINDYTW Posts: 5,783
7/7/12 10:16 A

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Christia there is a lot of conflicting diet information out there. Even within the Paleo community. I think if you really want to try it, what you need to do is to read about it and see what you CAN do. I think you could avoid eating meat possibly but you might be short on protein and have to really work at getting it in. check out www.marksdailyapple.com/#axzz1zwjP6U
lQ
I am sure there is a discussion on vegetarians there that might help more.

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CMSLOCUM1's Photo CMSLOCUM1 SparkPoints: (949)
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7/7/12 9:29 A

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Christina, If you want a good book and can stand the "sciency"information in it try It Starts With Food by the Hartwigs. They also have the website on the Whole 30. It's just a good starting point.
Funny, when I started eating Paleo I had no intention of changing some things I have changed and now I am crazy about buying grass fed beef and organic pastured chickens and I buy Organic milk from pastured chickens for my kids who still drink milk.

There's a lot of good info in there about why to avoid certain foods. Hope you enjoy it!


Sweat is just your fat crying!


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CHRISTINASP's Photo CHRISTINASP Posts: 1,856
7/7/12 2:44 A

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Thanks very much for the replies.
Cindy, I take an interest in the Paleo diet, I'm just trying to understand the meat part.
Because I hear a lot of good about the Paleo Diet I'm trying to get insights - it'd mean a big lifestyle change for me to try it so before I do, I am trying to get clarity. I'm looking for an answer to the question why the hunter gathers diet is seen as the best way to eat when I have heard information that states that eating meat is not-so-natural or healthy. I'm not so much disagreeing as confused, I think.
Can't say that I have so far found something that works 'perfectly' for me.. If I had I'd indeed not be looking into this... :)

Thanks Birgit, that's interesting that you feel it can be done. Can you recommend a book on the Paleo Diet that you find useful? (I'm reading Gary Taubes 'Why we get fat' right now).

Edited by: CHRISTINASP at: 7/7/2012 (02:50)
Keep it simple.


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 7,974
7/7/12 1:51 A

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Christina, in my opinion it is completely possible to eat a paleo-style diet and be vegetarian. Just skip the meat if you don't care for eating animals. A vegetarian diet and a low-carb diet like paleo can have a lot in common. Many vegetarians eat no beans or grains or sugar but eat mostly natural plant foods like fruits, veggies, herbs, seeds, nuts, oils, eggs and raw dairy. Eating meat is not necessary at all. On the other hand I see no reason not to eat meat and my body does great on it. I do make sure the animal products I eat come from animals that are humanely raised and slaughtered.
Of course many people do eat meat raw, at least in small quantities as in rare or medium-rare steaks or even hamburgers.
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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CINDYTW Posts: 5,783
7/6/12 9:56 P

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Christina, I wonder why you are interested in Paleo if you disagree with it so much? If you have found hat works for you then why are you lookin into this?

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XENA47's Photo XENA47 Posts: 209
7/6/12 6:34 P

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I think those who think a hunter gatherer cannot keep themselves in animal protein is vastly underestimating the ferocity and genius of our species. I eat approximately eighty grams of protein a day, or approximately a pound of meat. That's not really that much. A few birds, a squirrel or two or a nice fat rabbit would supply my needs. I could bring one of those down with a well aimed rock or a simple trap, particularly if I was motivated by hunger or the need to feed my family. I could catch a fish, or failing that, capture a pile of minnows or grasshoppers. I could collect snails or grubs. Or I could get real ambitious and bring down something bigger. Then I could preserve the meat, render the fat, and not have to hunt for a while. An animal the size of a house cat would support me for a week or so. A deer might last me a month or more. If I could bring down a buffalo, I might not have to hunt for the rest of the season.


Edited by: XENA47 at: 7/6/2012 (18:35)
"Hunger is fat leaving the body."


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CHRISTINASP's Photo CHRISTINASP Posts: 1,856
7/6/12 12:17 P

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Thank you for the replies. I've been a vegetarian for many years and I'd like to stay one... It's kind of scary for me to start about this topic because I don't want to create an impression of argueing... Still these are important questions to me, so that's why I posted them.
I hear and see a lot of positive news about the Paleo diet and I take an interest in it, so I'm trying to figure these things out.
I've always very much liked Harvey Diamonds chapter in Fit for Life (I know, I know, a very old book) about how the human body is not really made to eat and digest meat. It made sense to me.
Diamond states a lot of facts about the characteristics of animals made to eat meat and compares that to the human body. (They have fangs and claws, chemicals in their savliva and stomach to digest meat, short intestines - humans don't, and he offers a lot more information that I can't recall right now).

To me it would make sense to assume that we are best fit to eat what is 'natural' for the body. I understand that eating diary and grains aren't all that 'natural' for the human body as 'we' added these things only relatively recently to our diet.
However I am inclined to continue that logic and wonder if eating meat is all that 'natural' to us? Particularly if we eat it very frequently and in big quantities. I also can wonder if eating meat is the best thing / the most natural for us as we have to cook it before we can eat it. If eating meat is natural for our body why would we have to cook it first?
I can't imagine the hunter-gatherers were all that succesfull (like: not every day) in catching animals to eat.

I also tried to figure out through internet what primates eat. I read that chimps, which are maybe (?) our closest 'relatives' do on some occasions kill other animals and eat them - but that it takes them hours and hours to chew down a piece of meat, that often only the males eat it, and that meat is at it's highest an estimated 2 percent of their diet...

In other words our body may be able to eat meat, but is it really so logical to eat a lot of it? Or to assume we must eat it in order to be healthy? Isn't meat, like grains and diary, something that was added to our 'natural diet', be it much earlier? Are our bodies truly all that adjusted to eating it?
Most vegetarians I know, me included, get sick when eating meat after a long time.

I understand that the Paleo diet must work very well for many people but I'm wondering if that is maybe mostly due to cutting out grains and sugar and additives, eating more vegetables - maybe not so much because of eating a lot of meat...?
Trying to make sense of it all and to find out what's best for me / my body...



Edited by: CHRISTINASP at: 7/6/2012 (12:44)
Keep it simple.


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LIZZABEE's Photo LIZZABEE Posts: 99
7/6/12 7:00 A

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Humans were hunter -gatherers for many thousands of years, just as animals are technically hunter gatherers in that they search for food and eat what they find every day. It is surely our most natural state. In addition, research on modern hunter gatherer societies shows them to be very healthy, fit and also very happy people who are truly living well. I want some of that!

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CINDYTW Posts: 5,783
7/5/12 9:17 P

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I have not seen anything on this I don't think, but I bet if you read some Forewords and Afterwords in Primal and Paleo books it would explain it. Or just read some books on it, I am sure someone explains it. If I think about it, I would not do well on just what I could forage at this point. I think that would be going back too many evolutionary steps. But I DO feel good on Paleo. Answer enough for me!

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 7,974
7/3/12 10:36 A

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I've been asking the same question. I can only speak for myself that it works. I have to assume that the people who are saying that our digestive system does not change that quickly are right. I wish there was less of an emphasis on that term, though, because it give many people the wrong idea.
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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EGALITAIRE's Photo EGALITAIRE SparkPoints: (30,785)
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7/3/12 9:20 A

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Great question(s) - I think the reason for the HG emphasis is that is our last major lifestyle evolution before agrarianism and then industrialization. The time spans of the last two have been short in evolutionary terms, but I guess the focus on HG is still arbitrary.

Many primates are carnivorous and will eat meet, but are not necessarily predatory.

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CHRISTINASP's Photo CHRISTINASP Posts: 1,856
7/2/12 9:44 A

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I am wondering why the Paleo diet focuses on the hunter gatherers?
Why not go back even further in time and look at the lifestyle and diet of the primates?

I've been wondering about this for quite some time. What did 'we' eat before we knew how to hunt or how to cook foods? Is it really so logical to eat such a lot of meat? Just how much meat were the hunter-gatherers able to get?


Edited by: CHRISTINASP at: 7/2/2012 (09:45)
Keep it simple.


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