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PWVEGAS's Photo PWVEGAS Posts: 60
4/13/11 1:00 P

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Dr. Ron Rosedale in his book "The Rosedale Diet" recommends 1 gram of protein for every 'kilo' of lean body mass. That means you divide your pounds by 2.2 and get a much lower recommended amount. As I recall my quota was around 50g a day. I did this and was able to break a two year plateau of no weight loss. I had been averaging about double that amount in protien. Apparently excess protein is converted to glucose and then stored as fat in the process called gluconeogenesis. Since I restrict by carb grams to 50 or under it meant I really had to ramp up my fat intake.

I am now eating about 75g of protein a day... but I'm also not losing weight...not gaining either so I'm not complaining.



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CINDYSUE48's Photo CINDYSUE48 Posts: 3,264
4/8/11 7:30 P

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I usually get close to or over 100g (mostly over). I base my meals on protein. I decide first what meat/fish/fowl is on the menu, then decide what fruits/vegetables go with it...if any.

Cindy Moore

Low Carb and Paleo advocate

Palindromic Rheumatoid Arthritis diagnosed September 2007

Raleigh Low Carb Examiner
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4/8/11 6:46 P

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I have not really thought about how 'much' protein to eat. I have been relying on what 'feels right', what I feel I need to eat or am hungry for. Trying to include some protein at each meal.

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DOTSLADY's Photo DOTSLADY Posts: 10,019
4/8/11 4:02 P

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Nutmeg defined it below on 4/3 I think it was. I found the following link, and those who know about it, tell me if this is a good representation on calculating LBM, okay?

www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/di
et
.html


SPARKBIRDY - GOOD info. Thanks very much for your comments. I always attributed poor kidney function with diabetes, not protein. Protein might be more difficult to process AFTER damage from diabetes.

Edited by: DOTSLADY at: 4/8/2011 (16:05)
KNOWLEDGE = POWER. BODY = TEMPLE. FOOD = MEDICINE. PREVENTION IS THE CURE. YOU ARE WHAT YOU ABSORB!
One person's food is another person's poison.
__________
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CD stories: bit.ly/cdstories
Nutrition/Cancer: bit.ly/Quillinnutrition


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BLK2010's Photo BLK2010 Posts: 392
4/8/11 2:50 P

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Where can I go to caculate LBM?

9/19/10 Philadephia Rock n Roll 1/2
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SPARKLIT Posts: 555
4/7/11 2:17 A

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Thanks for your reply Sparkbirdy. Silly difference. Whats in a name I say ? Its all about the money in huge grain production. I do try to aim for 100gms.

JUSTBIRDY's Photo JUSTBIRDY SparkPoints: (72,518)
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4/6/11 11:18 P

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BTW, a "protein" diet is the code-word for the diet that cannot be named. Until recently, researchers could get published if they do studies on "high protein", but not if they do studies on "low carb".
The anti low carb people STILL use that "high protein/kidney" argument to trash low carb. They don't seem to know or care what low carb or Paleo folks actually eat.

Leader of "Leptin and Cold Thermogenesis" sparkteam. www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
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JUSTBIRDY's Photo JUSTBIRDY SparkPoints: (72,518)
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4/6/11 11:14 P

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According to the Eades', I need 84 g most days. I feel best when I keep it under 100. If I start to go below 70 regularly, I have more difficulty. Try a little less protein if you aren't losing the weight that you want to lose.
Atkins isn't really high protein, but there is no restriction on protein. The Eades recommend a level, but say OK to eat a bit more if you are hungry. Rosedale, Ezrin and Schwarzbein are more restrictive. On Rosedale, I should aim for 68 g, which for my activity level is too low.
There are also different ways to calc LBM. I use the Barry Sears/Eades' way, which gives me a much higher LBM than Spark or Dr. Oz.

Leader of "Leptin and Cold Thermogenesis" sparkteam. www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
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4/6/11 2:46 A

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According to Dr Eades I need only 59gms of protein a day. Maybe I am eating too much aiming for 100gms.Any thoughts ??

NUTMEG1125's Photo NUTMEG1125 Posts: 2,002
4/6/11 1:37 A

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I don't even think Atkins is high protein. I think people just don't realize the role fat plays in low carb diets when they discuss it.



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4/5/11 9:46 P

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Schwarzbein, Ezrin and Rosedale limit protein on a low carb diet and the Eades mention not to get too much. Rosedale is more "paleo-ey" While the calcs are the minimum, both say don't go too much above that, but don't define it. Schwarzbein, Rosedale and the Eades' have allowances for more protein with exercise, but don't recommend all that much. So, when I was on both plans and did tons of activities, the protein levels were too low for me. On the Rosedale plan, carb foods are mostly out and carbs aren't counted, only protein. There are just a few carb servings of things and that's it. If you are hungry, he says eat fat. He likes coconut oil best.
Rosedale makes it especially clear: You don't want to be a good protein burner. If you want to lose weight, you need to be good at burning fat.
So I don't know where people are getting that most of the low carb plans have unlimited protein. I think that is mostly Atkins, which most people don't do here, because we don't do "bars" and other fake food-like substances.

Edited by: JUSTBIRDY at: 4/5/2011 (21:48)
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CINDYSUE48's Photo CINDYSUE48 Posts: 3,264
4/5/11 9:07 P

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"it is recommended for women, age 14-70+"

This always cracks me up. Of course we all have the exact same protein needs regardless of our age....once we get into puberty and well past menopause anyway.

Come on! a 4'8" tall 14 year old bookworm doesn't have the same requirements as a 5'8" tall 14yr old athlete.....let alone other ages, sizes, etc!

Cindy Moore

Low Carb and Paleo advocate

Palindromic Rheumatoid Arthritis diagnosed September 2007

Raleigh Low Carb Examiner
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4/5/11 12:13 P

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Shiver me timbers- get your energy back soon! emoticon

"THERE'S MORE TO LIFE THAN JUST BEING A PASSENGER." (Amelia Earhart)
DON'T TAKE LIFE TOO SERIOUSLY- IT'S NOT PERMANENT.
Old age is not for sissies.


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DOTSLADY's Photo DOTSLADY Posts: 10,019
4/5/11 10:11 A

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Many thoughtful replies, thank you very much!

CindySue, I appreciate your mentioning the RDA, which is "recommended" not necessarily "optimal" intake. From page 4: www.iom.edu/Global/News%20Announceme
nt
s/~/media/C5CD2DD7840544979A549EC47ER>56A02B.ashx
it is recommended for women, age 14-70+ to get 46g daily, so good point. I still eat a lot of fruit, CindySue, and my tri's were 34 last time. I don't get that. Who knows what the cholesterol will be next time as the thyroid's acting up.

Purrballs, thank you for the meat cooking primer. I will have to start "just doing it". I have relied on DH as he was good at it. I need to rely on me more often. Sometimes I get tired of always being at the early learning curve. It's my thyroid: I'm apathetic and tired right now. If anyone understands that one, it's you.

So! I think my protein is fine, and I'm not going to worry about it. Thanks again team mateys. You're a swell bunch, and I feel most at home HERE! I love reading about this stuff, and you all always have great opinions.
emoticon Feeling a bit like a pirate lately. Argh....
emoticon



Edited by: DOTSLADY at: 4/5/2011 (10:13)
KNOWLEDGE = POWER. BODY = TEMPLE. FOOD = MEDICINE. PREVENTION IS THE CURE. YOU ARE WHAT YOU ABSORB!
One person's food is another person's poison.
__________
Celiac Disease: An autoimmune reaction from eating gluten grains: wheat, rye, barley and contaminated oats=nutrient deficiency=cancer. Have 1 of 300 symptoms? bit.ly/cdsymptoms
CD stories: bit.ly/cdstories
Nutrition/Cancer: bit.ly/Quillinnutrition


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CINDYSUE48's Photo CINDYSUE48 Posts: 3,264
4/4/11 9:44 P

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I no longer weigh or measure, but when I did I always aimed for at least 100g/day. Most days I was 130s+. Carbs are usually very low, always less than 10% of calories, usually under 5%, the rest is fat. I cook with a little fat, I do not trim meats and look for fattier cuts, I only add fats after cooking to veggies. Depending on what I was eating, I'd go anywhere between equal intakes of fat and protein (grams, not calories) to 70% fat to 70% protein.

"High protein" to me is anything over the RDA, which is far too low. "Low carb" is anything under the "accepted" limit of 130g/day and "High fat" is anything over the RDA....which is also far too low. So I eat a high protein, low carb and high fat diet.

I've not heard the argument with low carbers saying to limit protein to promote fat burning....but I have heard some diabetics say they have to watch protein because they are too efficient in creating glucose. I've also heard many low carbers scream they were not high protein they were high fat....and some plans DO promote adding fat just to add it.


Cindy Moore

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Palindromic Rheumatoid Arthritis diagnosed September 2007

Raleigh Low Carb Examiner
CINDYTW Posts: 5,783
4/4/11 8:49 A

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Thanks!

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SPARKLIT Posts: 555
4/4/11 6:04 A

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Cant remember where I read this now... but apparantly, excess protein is insulinogenic, that is ...if you eat protein in excess of your needs the body converts it to sugar to be able to store it. That is why all protein should be had in its pure form along with plenty of its own fat. I think I read this on the heartscan blog. However I find that I weigh less the day after a high protein day. But I guess that 'high' would depend on what is high for you. I generally aim for about 100gms a day. I dont find it hard to find in the natural world.

NUTMEG1125's Photo NUTMEG1125 Posts: 2,002
4/4/11 12:31 A

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The lean body mass formula is your goal for protein intake, not your upper limit. If you eat more it is okay, the lean body mass should be your minimum intake :)

Some paleos though, not Cordain who has the most popular book, say to get the minimum of protein and then make up the rest with fat. I like that idea ;)



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PURRBALLS's Photo PURRBALLS Posts: 7,964
4/4/11 12:05 A

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Best way to tell doneness is with experience and physically touching the thing. I can tell by pressing on it how done it is. If it doesn't give....it's well, the rest is a matter of how much it is giving when you press on it. It's squishy? It's rare....if it gives somewhat...it's medium. But I professionally cook and don't have time for thermometers or gadgets for this.

I eat a ton of protein....my kidneys are fine.

bodybuilding.about.com/od/bodybuildi
ng
faq/f/kidneydamage.htm


www.marksdailyapple.com/protein-kidn
ey
s/


Edited by: PURRBALLS at: 4/4/2011 (00:17)
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4/3/11 11:45 P

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Some low carb experts do not recommend eating a higher amount of protein to lose weight because they feel it is necessary for people to figure out how to burn fat. If they become efficient at burning protein and they get enough of it, they won't dip into fat stores. I aim for a minimum of 85 grams. Rosedale suggests 1 gram per kilo of lean body mass.

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CINDYTW Posts: 5,783
4/3/11 8:57 P

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Dots I think steak is an art, but it also helps to have the proper tools. A stove with a really hot buner, a good heavy skillet or grill pan, and a meat thermometer so you don't have to cut it and let all the juices out. The way I make it is to get the pan SUPER hot before starting them, then let them get a nice brown crust on one side before flipping it. When you flip, turn the heat down to med-high and let it go until it is up to temp. Check it through one of the ends instead of the top...more accurate. It will also continue to cook some as it sits so do it a little less than what you want it and let it rest on the plate a few minutes.

I think the fear of the masses is for kidney function. If you already have kidney disease they usually put you on super low protein diet, at least initially. Mark's Daily Apple had a funny article on this...don't have a link for ya though!

Meghan-I am wondering if the formula using lean body mass at goal is too low? I come out at 108g that way and my upper SP range is 127. We all know their ranges are not generally right for the paleo crowd and if THEY say more?? What do you think?



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CINDYSUE48's Photo CINDYSUE48 Posts: 3,264
4/3/11 8:51 P

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"High protein" is a pet peeve of mine! It all goes back to the 60s (I think) when a diet of almost pure protein was a fad....and there WERE people that got sick. I believe the term is rabbit starvation. It's not so much too much protein as it is not enough fat to go with it.

For those with healthy kidneys there is no problem with "high" protein intake. Even with damaged kidneys there is now some controversy. Higher protein intake leads to higher albumin levels and higher blood albumin levels are associated with a much higher recovery from serious accident or illness!

The requirements are WAY too low and the majority of the population have low albumin levels.

Now....that said, I focus on protein/fat as the main part of my meal, then add veggies, fruit, whatever to make things interesting. I'm a fairly simple cook....fast and easy for the most part.

Cindy Moore

Low Carb and Paleo advocate

Palindromic Rheumatoid Arthritis diagnosed September 2007

Raleigh Low Carb Examiner
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4/3/11 8:18 P

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Good point Meghan- I need to go back and calibrate that again.

"THERE'S MORE TO LIFE THAN JUST BEING A PASSENGER." (Amelia Earhart)
DON'T TAKE LIFE TOO SERIOUSLY- IT'S NOT PERMANENT.
Old age is not for sissies.


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NUTMEG1125's Photo NUTMEG1125 Posts: 2,002
4/3/11 7:03 P

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I think even a goal of 140 may not be needed. What is your goal LEAN body mass? That is a better protein goal. My goal weight is 145 with a BF% of 20-22% that gives me about 116 of lean mass. So, 116 is my goal for protein.



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MOLLIEMAC's Photo MOLLIEMAC SparkPoints: (84,987)
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4/3/11 6:40 P

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I don't get enough protein either according to the paleo scale BUT I do have a DH who knows how to cook meat. Close to rare for steaks, pork tender but well cooked, poultry juicy but well cooked and fish is my forte, cooked well but never tough. Keep practicing, cooking is a joy! In the meantime I augment with nuts and seeds but there is no way I can get to the desired limits, despite that I feel so much better sans grains et al...MJ

"THERE'S MORE TO LIFE THAN JUST BEING A PASSENGER." (Amelia Earhart)
DON'T TAKE LIFE TOO SERIOUSLY- IT'S NOT PERMANENT.
Old age is not for sissies.


Leader of team Healthy Canada


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DOTSLADY's Photo DOTSLADY Posts: 10,019
4/3/11 6:16 P

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I struggle to get enough protein, always have. When I tell people I eat "paleo" ie meat, veg, fruit, nuts, seeds, they equate it to Atkins and diss it as too much protein and fat. Doesn't matter what they think, but my question is, "What IS too "high" protein?" What's the worry? Kidney function? Is that even true if you 'have' diminished kidney function? I never know what to believe between mainstream and alternative, so I ask (it's not my problem, but I'm curious your thoughts).

I am nowhere near my target of 1g/lb of body weight (less the body fat I need to lose). My goal is therefore about 140g/day. I gotta work on that.

Do you all get enough protein? (Thanks Fit Artist, for your protein powder thread, I took a gander :)). Do ya'll have any recipes for steaks? I'm super picky about wanting them pink on the inside, and don't know how to cook them. If I made one once in a while rather than depending on restaurants, I'd likely do better.
emoticon

KNOWLEDGE = POWER. BODY = TEMPLE. FOOD = MEDICINE. PREVENTION IS THE CURE. YOU ARE WHAT YOU ABSORB!
One person's food is another person's poison.
__________
Celiac Disease: An autoimmune reaction from eating gluten grains: wheat, rye, barley and contaminated oats=nutrient deficiency=cancer. Have 1 of 300 symptoms? bit.ly/cdsymptoms
CD stories: bit.ly/cdstories
Nutrition/Cancer: bit.ly/Quillinnutrition


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