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BUTRFLI2BE's Photo BUTRFLI2BE Posts: 77
1/1/11 10:31 P

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I take 4,000 iu of vitamin d daily. I had previously been taking 2,000 iu per day. Within a few days of bumping it up to 4,000, I felt considerably happier...more like my old self. (I had been in a funk for quite a while.) Since I felt so good, I decided to keep it at that level. I also have to add that people in my cubicle at work have had several colds over the past several months and I've managed to stay cold-free which I credit to the vitamin d.

Re: veganism, I get so frustrated hearing about it. It's all I can do not to get on a soap box about it.

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LIZZABEE's Photo LIZZABEE Posts: 99
12/13/10 6:24 P

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I'm currently taking 3000 units of VitD a day. My doctor gave me a prescription for 50,000 units to take once a week, but it literally knocked my legs out from under me, and caused intense bone pain;
that was about a year ago. I hadn't thought of trying an increase for the winter, but it is such a good idea. I think I will try adding another 1000 and see how that works for me now.

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DBCLARINET's Photo DBCLARINET Posts: 1,113
12/13/10 6:12 P

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I know I answered some of this in my last blog, but just to share the wealth, vitamin D levels aren't tested in the U.S. without a hefty $400 fee on the part of the patient. Insurance won't cover it. That's why my parents' doctor is testing himself -- he gets a discount. He's bumping it up to 5,000 for now to see if his blood levels go up. I'm bumping up to between 4-5,000 also, which will probably help since I went from a Texas summer to a norther Ohio winter. It'll be interesting to see if I feel any better as a result!

Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. - Victor Hugo

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12/13/10 1:59 P

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www.marksdailyapple.com/page/2/ This is dated December 6.


I think I will aim for 4000 IU this time of year, then drop it back to 2000 IU come spring. We do get a lot of sunshine here and I am outside most days in the garden. I also take a good quality multivite.

"THERE'S MORE TO LIFE THAN JUST BEING A PASSENGER." (Amelia Earhart)
DON'T TAKE LIFE TOO SERIOUSLY- IT'S NOT PERMANENT.
Old age is not for sissies.


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DOTSLADY's Photo DOTSLADY Posts: 10,018
12/13/10 1:06 P

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I've taken up to 10,000iu/day, esp in winter. I get my blood labs done every 4-6 months. I'm now taking 5,000iu but am concerned about winter months needing more, and want to up it back up to 10,000iu, but then I don't want to overdue it either. From memory, I believe between 50-70 is a good lab value unless you have other health issues that might need vitamin D. DH takes 5,000iu, DD is not regular with supplements of any kind. My needing that much is an indicator of my gut integrity or lack thereof? Or because I'm so overweight.

In Canada you can't ask for a "non-routine" lab like vitamin D and have it covered? There are two options I know of for self-testing for about $65.

www.grassrootshealth.net/ (looks like they're visiting Canada, so may also be available there. FYI: NOT available in NY per local laws last time I read through the site, but doublecheck.)
bit.ly/gVXyyR

Bone health, which I think the most recent recommendations discussed, is NOT 'just' about vitamin D (nor 'calcium') but a menagerie of vitamins/minerals. What's missing from a lot of conversations about vitamin D and bone health is the connection or balance of magnesium, calcium, phosphorus, boron, vit K, etc. It's complicated, so maybe that's why the new recommendations (though I haven't read them). Your serum calcium is tightly regulated by the pituitary and Vit D is a participant. Serum calcium is not an indication of dietary calcium.

(Hey, can I talk about my heart attack again?! I think I had an imbalance of minerals - lower magnesium and higher calcium!) bit.ly/fiovNx hee hee I did it again w/the heart thing. I make myself laugh alone in my freezing little office...
emoticon emoticon emoticon .

Please share link to dailyapple vitamin d blog ...
emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon

Edited by: DOTSLADY at: 12/13/2010 (16:57)
KNOWLEDGE = POWER. BODY = TEMPLE. FOOD = MEDICINE. PREVENTION IS THE CURE. YOU ARE WHAT YOU ABSORB!
One person's food is another person's poison.
__________
Celiac Disease: An autoimmune reaction from eating gluten grains: wheat, rye, barley and contaminated oats=nutrient deficiency=cancer. Have 1 of 300 symptoms? bit.ly/cdsymptoms
CD stories: bit.ly/cdstories
Nutrition/Cancer: bit.ly/Quillinnutrition


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12/13/10 8:36 A

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?????- how much Vitamin D are you folks supplementing with here? I have just upped to 2000IU a day. Here in Canada it is not routine to do Vitamin D screening when general blood work is done so I have no idea what my level is- I hate to think what the cost would be for the test. After the latest blog about Vitamin D on dailyapple I wonder if I should add even more.

"THERE'S MORE TO LIFE THAN JUST BEING A PASSENGER." (Amelia Earhart)
DON'T TAKE LIFE TOO SERIOUSLY- IT'S NOT PERMANENT.
Old age is not for sissies.


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DOTSLADY's Photo DOTSLADY Posts: 10,018
12/13/10 1:43 A

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I think many doctors and dieticians think gf diet is "too difficult" and share their thoughts with patients to discourage them. My gastro said he wouldn't want to do it. I know some good doctors and they have to know a lot of mind-boggling stuff (to me anyway), but that they are not taught the basics of nutrition and health is a crime. Hello, "First do no harm?" I always thought of them as teachers, too. I think some give up trying to teach 'students' who want quick fixes. Care is rote.

Guess you have to specialize in allergy? My allergist is "with it" and I like to think I introduced him to Paleo. Sometimes doctors talk to me during my visits. He confessed to liking baked goods too much to not eat grains. He took his girlfriend to an out-of-state endo clinic for her thyroid condition (alternative care); so he's open. He also tried to get the nearby hospital cafeteria to improve their offerings, incl. adding real butter instead of margarine (to no avail and with the scornful or incredulous glare). Last visit he told me he was grainless with this new "paleo" diet ... um, yeah, good idea! (I get no respect!) lol

I visited with a new nutritionist (former pharmacist), who recommended paleo without my talking about it - so yay!

emoticon As much as I don't appreciate fanatical anything/one, I are one for paleo much like vegans, vegetarians, or the potato diet guy are for their diet. How frustrating to be told you don't feel better grain free: Crazy talk!

DH is trying paleo; he works with a PhD in biology who said it's a fad, that only 1% or celiacs need that diet, "Phooey, hogwash on it!" she says and walks away. She doesn't want to hear about it. Nor do many doctors.

I have a doc friend whose dad is celiac (for heaven's sake) - - but will he try gf diet, let alone paleo? NO! Too inconvenient (he has IBS so bad he had to have 'roid surgery. His celiac panel was negative, so he thinks it's not for him - ugh!). He "did" take probiotics on my advice, and it helped, but the inconvenience factor is BIG apparently for many people. I've read the public-at-large think people are looking for attention when they do these fad diets. *sigh* Wait. What was the topic again? lol Sorry for the rant.

I don't mind vegans being vegans for their health issues, btw. If I had RA, I'd be gf vegan (check pubmed), or if I had cancer, I'd be gf vegan. Digesting meat takes a lot of energy you don't have when you're doing chemo or whatever. Bragging about their lower cholesterol is not something to brag about. Too low cholesterol has been shown to cause aggression and suicide. My cholesterol has been all over the place as I am my own science experiment: my total cholesterol is under the "conventional" chol. parameters, and I'm paleo - um, so? (TC 182, Tri 36, HDL 57, LDL 118). From what I've read, you WANT cholesterol - your body needs it for hormones, esp adrenal, sex; and brain function (your brain has 25% cholesterol, and it's made IN the brain). I've read many times that the body/liver makes up for what we don't consume; and honestly, I don't understand how or what this means, or if it matters. I DO know you want a healthy liver and sometimes too high cholesterol indicates something's amiss. Oh, and for some people: gluten grains mucky up their liver function and they, um, die of liver failure. The death certificate might indicate the correct COD, but the reason behind it is the hidden mystery. Same with some kidney inflammation/nephritis. I wonder if the dietician knows that?

JennieH - "fear fat and love fiber" ... well, I think you can love both. Fiber IS good, but I don't get all the love for grain's insoluble fiber. We can get that elsewhere.

Another thought re: nutrition/dietician degree would be to get "their" degree, and then another in holistic nutrition - Bastyr College, or something online (integrativenutrition.com - saw an ad on SP!). ;)

Meghan - I'd love to hear what we're missing without grains. Some insoluble fiber, Vit E and some minerals maybe, but we can get that from nuts/seeds and other veg/fruit.

DB - tell your dad vitamin D (synthetic even) played a key role in my recovering from body-wide pain from fibromyalgia. As did going gluten-free.

I think what works for one person and not another has a lot to do with gut integrity. Gut integrity is not something considered by doctors (my gastro even). I have a friend who is a nurse working for a group of gastros. They won't check a patient with an autoimmune disease for celiac if they're going down the gullet for something else even! She has to coax them during their procedure. Mind boggling. You also don't have to have a malabsorption disease to have low vitamin D: both DH and DD had lower levels than me. Their symptoms were/are different than mine, too. I'm not willing to find out later that I "should" have listened to vitaminDcouncil.org all along ...

I'd like to read the Consumer Reports about Vit D. Can you share the issue? I looked online, but couldn't find a recent article.

Dr. Mercola had a rebuttal to recent recommendations:
bit.ly/fcKxwn

Purrballs - keep stunning people with your info!

Edited by: DOTSLADY at: 12/13/2010 (13:45)
KNOWLEDGE = POWER. BODY = TEMPLE. FOOD = MEDICINE. PREVENTION IS THE CURE. YOU ARE WHAT YOU ABSORB!
One person's food is another person's poison.
__________
Celiac Disease: An autoimmune reaction from eating gluten grains: wheat, rye, barley and contaminated oats=nutrient deficiency=cancer. Have 1 of 300 symptoms? bit.ly/cdsymptoms
CD stories: bit.ly/cdstories
Nutrition/Cancer: bit.ly/Quillinnutrition


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PURRBALLS's Photo PURRBALLS Posts: 7,953
12/12/10 8:52 P

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Docs don't get training in alot of things but they still treat and advise people. My nephew is a resident. He developed thyroid cancer a year ago. He asked me what I was on and I gave him an earful as well as about a 1000 websites/books/medical studies to go read on. He was STUNNED!!! His comment to me was that they were taught about a half hour of thyroid information in schooling. TOTAL! He had no idea all this was out there. He's in anesthesiology but he had no idea all this info was out there let alone there were alternatives. He's actually listening to an old aunt who's teaching him a few things. When I told him my cholesterol numbers and so forth improved on coconut oil he thought I was wonky so I had to show him the test results along with the notebook I keep my food diaries in along with everything else related to my health. He's hearing us but I doubt he's going to be bringing along many friends....they're taught in school to believe only what the AMA recommends.....

If you get stressed out eat some catnip and go to sleep

“Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.” Thomas Edison

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PURRBALLS's Photo PURRBALLS Posts: 7,953
12/12/10 8:47 P

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Jennie? ever think of doing this but preparing yourself beforehand by providing medical studies supporting your view as a challenge to the testing? That would be an interesting idea......

If you get stressed out eat some catnip and go to sleep

“Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.” Thomas Edison

If you soap or make bath/body/candle products join us at the soapers and chandlers sparkteam!

The Seven Dwarves of Hypothyroidism: Itchy, *itchy, Sweaty, Sleepy,
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12/12/10 7:14 P

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WHOA- Jennie, I've seen some mighty fine purses and coats made out of cowhide, lol! Don't have any problem eating them however:).

It is so good to be on a forum where discussion is challenging and alive- woohoo!

"THERE'S MORE TO LIFE THAN JUST BEING A PASSENGER." (Amelia Earhart)
DON'T TAKE LIFE TOO SERIOUSLY- IT'S NOT PERMANENT.
Old age is not for sissies.


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DBCLARINET's Photo DBCLARINET Posts: 1,113
12/12/10 6:34 P

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You're right, doctors don't get any official nutrition training, which is unfortunate. But, for what it's worth, I think most people only go to the doctor when something is wrong with them, and that's what pharmaceuticals are for, right??

I think if you really want to become a dietician, go ahead and swallow your pride enough to pass. Then, just look at all the "latest" research and come to your own conclusions. Sometimes it's about playing the game so that you can start up change within the system.

Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. - Victor Hugo

Music is my religion. - Jimi Hendrix

There are more love songs than anything else. If songs could make you do something we'd all love one another. - Frank Zappa
NUTMEG1125's Photo NUTMEG1125 Posts: 2,002
12/12/10 6:06 P

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Yes! What you all said!!! I totally agree. Craziness.

I had considered becoming a dietitian, but for now will not because I couldn't give wrong answers just to pass the test.



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LIZZABEE's Photo LIZZABEE Posts: 99
12/12/10 5:59 P

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My doctor told me doctors get NO nutrition training! So they only have conventional wisdom and conventional "science" quacks to go by. Science that starts with an erroneous basis is not really science.

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JENNIE.H's Photo JENNIE.H Posts: 1,053
12/12/10 5:12 P

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Do you all of you ever wonder why a nutritionist or doctor or whoever, would be ok with someone eliminating an entire food group if it was due to an allergy, but for no other reason?
Many wouldn't think twice about us eliminating grains if we were gluten intolerant, but try to tell them that its because we feel better not eating them, we lose FAT, and because grains are not essential to living. I'm amazed that cutting out grains and limiting carbs has been proven to turn around epilepsy and autism (at least in many cases), but God forbid anyone else do it if they seem healthy!
But a vegan cuts out 2 food groups and people think they are healthy? I don't get it. Seriously, what good is a cow to us if not for the meat and milk? Plus I think vegan have an odd paleness to them. Must be all the antinutrients they consume and lack of good healthy saturated fats and proteins!

- jennie

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12/12/10 3:10 P

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What a "fix" you have found yourself in. Giving the "right" (CW) answers will let you pass the test and maybe that knowledge can be used to your advantage as you start to counsel clients- if it was me I'd be gagging all over the exam sheet. Hold your nose and go for the pass:). emoticon emoticon

"THERE'S MORE TO LIFE THAN JUST BEING A PASSENGER." (Amelia Earhart)
DON'T TAKE LIFE TOO SERIOUSLY- IT'S NOT PERMANENT.
Old age is not for sissies.


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LIZZABEE's Photo LIZZABEE Posts: 99
12/12/10 1:21 P

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well seriously, there is no point in going to school but planning to fail. You would have to fake it and fake it well, in order to complete the program and become a respected dietician. Only then can you truly begin to educate people with the true message. It would be so hard to have to really learn the wrong stuff, but it might help you in the long run to have that background so you can counter it.

Edited by: LIZZABEE at: 12/12/2010 (13:22)
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JENNIE.H's Photo JENNIE.H Posts: 1,053
12/12/10 10:15 A

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Sparklit-
I have really considered this. If I were taking the exam, and gave the paleo answers, I'd most likely fail. But If I gave conventional wisdom, I'd pass. It's a tough situation.
I really wonder what the test is like. I would think that it would basically follow the wretched food pyramid. Would a vegan answer how they believe and pass? Or would they face the same dilemma I would? Hmm.

- jennie

owner and instuctor of PeakFit BootCamp


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SPARKLIT Posts: 555
12/12/10 10:07 A

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Jennie ... If I were you I would give the right answer and be able to sleep at night...but remember...it wont be easy. Also you could go bust....! I for one would still stand on the rooftop and shout the right thing because its dear to my heart.

JENNIE.H's Photo JENNIE.H Posts: 1,053
12/12/10 10:02 A

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It irks me too, so much that I have really thought about becoming a dietitian (from doing exercise science) just so that I can legally give diet (and the right diet) advice out. Then I thought I would have to answer questions on the test thinking conventionally. It's an ethical question at this point. Do I give the right (paleo) answers or the answer they are looking for?

I would love to find a dietitian/nutrioninst that actually knew what they were talking about. Unfortunately, they've all been taught to fear fat and love fiber. What a shame!

- jennie

owner and instuctor of PeakFit BootCamp


www.peakfitbootcamp.com


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12/12/10 9:01 A

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LOL, just check out the recipe of the day here on SP- seems like you can now eat low fat shortbread- get rid of the butter but keep stuffing yourself with grain. emoticon
it is sheer hypocrisy. I do know what diet works for me and it sure isn't veganism. Keep grokking!

"THERE'S MORE TO LIFE THAN JUST BEING A PASSENGER." (Amelia Earhart)
DON'T TAKE LIFE TOO SERIOUSLY- IT'S NOT PERMANENT.
Old age is not for sissies.


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SPARKLIT Posts: 555
12/12/10 1:49 A

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I hear all of you....but ....for most people anything that drags the rug from under their feet just isnt happening. As someone on another post said " Its like religion".Try challenging someones religion. Its just not happening.Sometimes I wonder if brains just cease to function with all the carbs and grains and sugars that they are fed.
I really really thank god for belonging to the right religion !

DBCLARINET's Photo DBCLARINET Posts: 1,113
12/11/10 10:49 P

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YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was a SP article that came in my e-mail a few weeks ago about cholesterol in the diet, I think, and all these vegans were like, "Well, I don't have high cholesterol because I refuse to eat meat!"

Or that anti-Paleo blog that got posted on this team a few weeks ago, too.

You're right, Purrballs, there is so much information out there, but if I've gathered anything, it's that we're on the front edge of all the latest research. Case in point: I was discussing with my dad a while ago about the theoretical vitamin D deficiency in Westerners due to our lifestyle habits. Well, my dad swears by the Bible according to Consumer Reports, and they said that all the research about vitamin D was bunk, and we don't need as much as previously thought. He had serious doubts when the one doctor I went to suggested I seriously add some vitamin D to my supplements.

Then, lo and behold, he went to the doctor this morning, and I guess the doctor is doing self-experimentation with vitamin D. Human blood is supposed to have 30 to 100 (enter unit of measurement here), but his test revealed that he had 13. So he increased his vitamin D supplement from the recommended 1,000iu a day slowly up to 4,000iu (I think that's 1,000% US RDA), and when he did the vitamin D test, he had moved up to 20. Still nowhere close to the 30-100 that were recommended. He's now going to bump up to 5,000iu a day.

Of course, that led to a very interesting and intelligent conversation about the benefits of vitamin D and the failure of the US recommended daily allowances to provide anything more than deficiency-preventative levels of vitamins and minerals. Epic. Fail.

Anyway, that's a long story to say that the tides are changing, and I think lots of moral vegans get on their high horse to defend their hypocrisy. As for the dietician, I'd be wary of someone who is so behind on their research.

Sorry, lots of thoughts there!

Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. - Victor Hugo

Music is my religion. - Jimi Hendrix

There are more love songs than anything else. If songs could make you do something we'd all love one another. - Frank Zappa
PURRBALLS's Photo PURRBALLS Posts: 7,953
12/11/10 10:10 P

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I hear ya gal. It's like me being told by my DIL that I'm going to have a heart attack because I dare to use coconut oil and butter. It doesn't matter that my cholesterol and triglyceride levels are better than ever before because her dietician told her so!

I'd even sent her about a hundred websites showing the benefits and medical studies proving it. But dietician knows best....

:::: barf! ::::

If you get stressed out eat some catnip and go to sleep

“Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.” Thomas Edison

If you soap or make bath/body/candle products join us at the soapers and chandlers sparkteam!

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NUTMEG1125's Photo NUTMEG1125 Posts: 2,002
12/11/10 8:44 P

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It irks me, it really does. Why does a dietitian elude that one can be a healthy vegan if it is done properly. We al know veganism completely removes 2 food groups. Yet this same dietitian also says you can not be healthy without grains. Which is only removing one food group and one that can be easily substituted 1 for 1 by other plants.

Meats and eggs have no real substitute that is equally nutritious.

This person tells people that want to be vegan to go for it with proper nutritional advice, but if someone wants to go even just gluten free tells them it is dangerous unless there is medical need.

Does anyone else see the hypocrisy here?



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