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6/25/12 10:29 A

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Bizarre, indeed. I didn't watch this, so I am curious why the daughter couldn't carry the child if the mother could. I understand one not being able to conceive, but if one does in vitro and there is conception then it's merely a matter of implanting and carrying the child to delivery. Obviously something wasn't working, but I agree with your last statement, Fatcattn-adoption would have solved more issues here. If the mother need is so great, adoption would serve its purpose here, and help in a far greater dynamic. I never had the mother need. I appreciate kids, but I never had the mother need, and find much enjoyment with kids without having to raise them. But I have known several women in my life who practically oozed this desire. It is incredible to witness because it's as if every minute of their lives is consumed with this obsession. I knew a woman who had four kids and over the course of twenty years had 16 foster babies, and obsessed with each of her own children, making their lives stressful until they had their own kids, thus fulfilling her own desire for grandchildren. Talk about earth mother-this woman was universe ubermom!-unbelievable. From my experience with these women I believe one is born with some prominent gene for superparenting. I don't think any environment issue could foster this great a feeling, this all-consuming need for children.

LILLITO's Photo LILLITO Posts: 166
6/23/12 8:50 P

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it's those same people who spend money they don't have because they feel they have a 'right' to nice things, whether they can afford them or not. baby at all cost. sooo glad i never felt that way.

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MBSHAZZER's Photo MBSHAZZER Posts: 18,460
4/22/11 7:43 A

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Misery loves company!

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts" - Winston Churchill

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FATCATTN's Photo FATCATTN SparkPoints: (11,063)
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4/21/11 6:19 P

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Some of my friends claim, "you don't know what you are missing". "Yes I do, which is exactly why I don't have any" is always my reply. Some will then get really honest and say that if they knew what it was really like they wouldn't have had any. Moral to the story is that the child bearing try to trick the child free into joining their ranks so they have more people to commiserate with. :)

Missy
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BUBBLEJ1's Photo BUBBLEJ1 Posts: 2,978
4/21/11 6:13 P

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I'm another one who doesn't understand the desire for children.I have friends who say their lives wouldn't be complete without kids. Ummmm...really? A loving husband and a good career doesn't do it for you? Don't get it!

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GLC2009's Photo GLC2009 Posts: 1,305
4/20/11 5:23 P

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why a 24 yr old would go through fertility treatments is beyond me. maybe i was immature at that age, but, i couldn't see spending that money and time working so hard to get pregnant at only 24.

i know people who had 2 kids, when they were in their 20's, and then didn't have anymore. thought they couldn't. so they adopted 2 more( emoticon ) in their 30's. then a few years later, they had 1 and then the next year another 1. that was pretty funny. fortunately they were thrilled to have 6 kids.

so, obviously it is difficult to know if and when you might be able to get pregnant. some people just don't stay in a constant state of being able to get pregnant during their child bearing years.

then there's that octamom. 8 kids. talk about a litter!

Gail


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CARLA-216's Photo CARLA-216 Posts: 6,816
4/20/11 12:14 P

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My closest girlfriend, at the ripe old age of 24, went through fertility treatments to have a baby. I couldn't relate even to her reasoning during that. She ended up with a small litter (triplets), and the sudden realization that 3 kids at once cost a lot. Meanwhile, about 8 years later, she gets pregnant on her own. She didn't really want another kid, but it was god's will, after all. [eye roll] So of course my thinking on this is that at age 24, she was not meant to be a mother yet, and that this youngest kid she has is proof of that.

I agree, it's the epitome of selfishness to go through such lengths. But wait, those of us who don't want kids are selfish. [TIC] I also agree that it could be nature's way of slowing down population growth.


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MBSHAZZER's Photo MBSHAZZER Posts: 18,460
4/20/11 11:55 A

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Babie rabies, LOL! Love it. And Carla, you make a great point about "god's will".

I think this story is incredibly creepy and I do think it's really sad when people's desire to procreate drives them to such lengths. I totally cannot understand it as I was born without the desire to procreate. Cannot wrap my brain around the desperation.

I think it's incredibly selfish to go to such lengths...if you can't do it on your own, maybe that's nature's way of putting the breaks on population. I mean, we have eradicated most illnesses as a major cause of death, with better infrastructure, people don't die in natural disasters like they did ages ago... there is now no check on population. We are an invasive species.

I also think it's sad that adoption is so difficult, expensive and time consuming (if that's true... many people who go through IVF and other lab created procreation claim that as their reason, but I sometimes wonder if that's true, or if they say that to cover up their selfish desire to have a mini-me). I understand that adoption organizations would be horrified if they placed a child with an abusive family, but using that line of thinking, then shouldn't everyone be screened before being allowed to leave the hospital with a child?!

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts" - Winston Churchill

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CARLA-216's Photo CARLA-216 Posts: 6,816
4/20/11 11:36 A

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It's always been a foreign concept to me, people with "baby rabies." I can't imagine the longing to have a child, especially one that would cost me thousands of dollars!

I think what gets me about this whole going to great lengths to have a child of one's own genetic makeup is so many of these people would sigh and say that it is god's will if someone gets pregnant when not really trying to. But they won't even entertain the idea that it may just be god's will that they cannot get pregnant/carry the pregnancy to term.



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KERSTIN814's Photo KERSTIN814 SparkPoints: (21,691)
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4/20/11 11:17 A

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It is very difficult to adopt if you want a white newborn. It is expensive and you have to qualify on so many levels. White people can't adopt black babies, because we will apparently treat them as slaves or something. If you want to adopt older children, mixed race children, special needs children, I think it is much easier though still not easy. Foreign adoptions used to be expensive but fairly easy, they are now becoming increasingly difficult. Overweight people can't adopt from China etc. Our culture encourages child bearing from the time we are babies. In the not so distant past, there were few choices for women. No way to support yourself if you weren't married, no way to prevent pregnancy if you were and wanted to stay that way. The choice of living child free is a luxury that is only as old as some of us on this site.

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CRYSTALLULLABY Posts: 2,620
4/20/11 11:09 A

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It is my understanding that adoption is a ridiculous, long-drawn out, bureaucratic, paper-work filled process. If having the grandmother carry their child is EASIER and CHEAPER than adopting - well that says volumes about what our society feels is child "care"... (I don't know - this is just a thought. I'm playing devil's advocate here.)

There are millions of couples in the world who are spending thousands of dollars trying to have their own kids whereas there are other people who wish they did not have kids (the ones up for adoption.) It's so convoluted and painful for all sides if you really think about it. I'm watching everyone around me either get pregnant or go through the "pain" of not being pregnant. It is foreign and strange to me. And then I see the pictures on the television and in the newspapers, of the kids we are not caring for and helping, who are already here and have a horrible life.

I think those thoughts alone are enough to keep me from having my own child. There is so much else I can be focusing on for the good of the world. Having a kid of "my own" is not going to necessarily help the world and the others around me.

I almost see it as a selfish thing - having a kid of "your own" (like SHORTY20 mentioned "mini me"). Most would say it is the other way around "How dare you not procreate?" (right, because my uterus is public property - I forgot about that!) I've thought lately that it seems to be exactly the opposite. With everything else going on in the world that we can all do something about...the focus is hundreds of thousands of dollars just so you, in particular, can reproduce?

And we glorify that (the grandmother carrying the child) with everything else in the world that is devastating the millions of others around us. It is really difficult for me to understand.


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SHORTY20's Photo SHORTY20 Posts: 7,138
4/20/11 7:34 A

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Yeah, the grandma would still be the childs grandma, she's just carrrying the fertilized egg, so the mom and dad are genetically the parents of the child.

I also do not understand the desperation to have a child. I just have never, ever felt that way.

Oh, and about the adoption thing. The only thing I can say is that maybe people are wary of adoption because genetically, you don't know the childs family history. There could be mental illness or other genetically inherited diseases. My parents adopted my one brother when he was 10 days old. He ended up being very hyper active as a child (he truly had ADD before people even knew what it was) and ended up bipolar and had a mild form of schysophrenia. If they had known these things, would they have still adopted him? I don't know, probably, just knowing my parents (they are saints, I swear!) but it is unbelievable the things that my brother put them through, and just the family in general. Honestly, as awful as this may sound, he may be part of the reason why I don't want kids. I think I'm scared that I will have one that will put me through crap like that, and I don't ever want to deal with that again.

So my point in all of this is that I think people generally feel more comfortable w/ their own blood line, because they know more of what to expect. Plus, I think people just feel the need to reproduce their own genes, for whatever reason. They need to have their own "mini me's"

Edited by: SHORTY20 at: 4/20/2011 (07:42)
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FATCATTN's Photo FATCATTN SparkPoints: (11,063)
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4/20/11 12:26 A

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I've also thought that people who are that desperate to have children who cannot conceive on their own are meant to adopt. A solution for each problem.

Missy
Stomach MUST Go! & SP Class of March 18-24, 2007 Co-Leader
Naturally Thin Leader

"Most people seek happiness when happiness is actually a choice."

"Food is not an option - find another way to cope."

"If hunger isn't the problem, food isn't the solution"

"There ain't much fun in medicine, but there's a heck of a lot of medicine in fun." - Josh Billings, 19th Century Humorist

"There is power and courage inside each one of us, waiting for a


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GLC2009's Photo GLC2009 Posts: 1,305
4/19/11 11:38 P

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what i don't understand is why when people are so desparate to have kids why won't they adopt? i think the world is overpopulated and i think there are alot of children that need safe, healthy homes.
to spend thousands and thousands of dollars because the kid has to be genetically yours is silly. either your crazy about children or your not.
re: the grandma carrying the baby. wouldn't she just be carrying a baby with her daughter's eggs and son in laws sperm? (ok, even that sounds creepy, sorry i asked)

Gail


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KERSTIN814's Photo KERSTIN814 SparkPoints: (21,691)
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4/19/11 8:11 P

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I think that we are really nothing more than animals with brains. Take away the brains and all you have is a sex drive. If all you have is a sex drive, you will have offspring. Now that we have not only brains, but the ability to prevent pregnancy, we can actually chose whether or not we breed. That is what the "right" wingers are all up in arms about. I don't think they care as much about abortion as they care about a woman controlling whether or not she reproduces. If they are successful in banning abortion, mark my word, they will go after birth control.

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NOTBLUSHING's Photo NOTBLUSHING Posts: 19,426
4/19/11 7:02 P

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It's impossible for me to understand this type of desperation to reproduce. I have no idea why ANYONE wants children, I can't think of a single positive about having them.
Having said that, I don't think there is any such thing as natural population control for humans. Other animals are subject to natural selection and 'survival of the fittest', but WE are not. In other species, the vulnerable ones are preyed upon. Old animals. Sick, unfit or injured animals. Or animals whose parents couldn't keep them safe. If that happened to the human species, we would hardly need birth control. Of course, my slow, obese @ss would have been eaten by a lion long ago.
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FATCATTN's Photo FATCATTN SparkPoints: (11,063)
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4/19/11 5:43 P

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This is the only place I can voice my opinion on this issue. Did you see Oprah today? A grandmother gave birth to her own grandchild. Gives the name grandMOTHER a whole new meaning. Her daughter had tried for years to get pregnant and finally went the in vitro route miscarrying 3 babies. The womans' mother offered to carry a child for them & recently gave birth. I have never had any inkling of a desire to have children so I do not get the desperation in going to such lengths. If I had been born barren I would breathe a sigh of relief and say, 'thank you'. Does anyone else think this is natures way of telling you that you should not have children & also messes with the natural way of population control? What is this child going to think when it finds out that it's grandmother is actually it's mom? Oprah didn't ask those questions...

Missy
Stomach MUST Go! & SP Class of March 18-24, 2007 Co-Leader
Naturally Thin Leader

"Most people seek happiness when happiness is actually a choice."

"Food is not an option - find another way to cope."

"If hunger isn't the problem, food isn't the solution"

"There ain't much fun in medicine, but there's a heck of a lot of medicine in fun." - Josh Billings, 19th Century Humorist

"There is power and courage inside each one of us, waiting for a


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