Author: Sorting Last Post on Top ↓ Message:
WORKINGON140's Photo WORKINGON140 Posts: 415
3/26/08 12:00 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Oh, good! I'm glad I don't have to do that again too soon. :)
And, next time, I will try to run on the road, because - yes, it was difficult to regulate the speed on the TM.
Since my avg. HR on my last LSD was 143, and that felt pretty good, maybe that data is pretty accurate.
Thank you so much - you are a wealth of knowledge!!
emoticon

"It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~George Eliot


 Pounds lost: 0.0 
 
0
26.85
53.7
80.55
107.4
WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
3/26/08 11:51 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Amanda:
Great job on the LT test. It's a bit of a beast, isn't it? The "all out" is basically the fastest pace you can hold. You ideally want to be running all the time. It's significantly easier on the road as if you go off too hard you'll slow down naturally towards the end. On the TM, trying to change speeds feels kinda like cheating to me (it's definitely NOT), and breathing's hard enough at high speed, let alone pressing those little teeny buttons!

I actually did mine yesterday on the TM and also went off too hard so for the last 10 minutes I was modulating pace on the TM (+/- 0.3mph) just so I wouldn't cough up a lung. Interestingly, looking back at my HR data for those last 10 minutes it's actually pretty constant despite my pace fluctuations. Make a note of your pace/distance etc for the next time you do it so that you can track progress (and there will be!) and help you find a decent pace.

Your 20 minute average is going to be slightly skewed by your walk breaks. What I'd do is take the average of your last run interval and use that as your LT (top Z4), and then calculate from there. See how this feels and 6-8 weeks later do the LT test again (maybe on a scheduled tempo day or something) and tweak accordingly.


EDITED to add: Don't forget about RPE too. Assuming an LT of 157, your LSD HR should be somewhere around 142. If that feels conversational pace to you, that's bang on.

Edited by: WONGERCHI at: 3/26/2008 (11:51)
In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


 current weight: 190.0 
 
210
202.5
195
187.5
180
WORKINGON140's Photo WORKINGON140 Posts: 415
3/26/08 8:56 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Okay, Adrian, I tried to do the LT test, but...
I think I pushed too hard because I wasn't able to run the whole 30 min - I took 3 one minute walk breaks. When you said "all out run", I'm assuming that means to run the entire time at the fastest pace that you can maintain? My problem is finding that pace (I'm sure that will come with experience, but what about now??).
Anyway, I went ahead and finished the 3 miles, which ended up being 3 one-mile intervals, basically, rather than a tempo run. My average HR for the last 20 minutes was 151. However, while I was running, my HR hovered between 155-160. Can I use this test at all, or do I need to do it again at a pace that I can maintain?


"It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~George Eliot


 Pounds lost: 0.0 
 
0
26.85
53.7
80.55
107.4
WORKINGON140's Photo WORKINGON140 Posts: 415
3/24/08 11:36 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
I posted my question and then went MIA for several days...
Thanks for all the great info! Who knew running could be so complicated. emoticon

(Actually, that's one of the reasons I enjoy it.)


"It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~George Eliot


 Pounds lost: 0.0 
 
0
26.85
53.7
80.55
107.4
SP_COACH_NANCY SparkPoints: (158,833)
Fitness Minutes: (112,042)
Posts: 46,222
3/19/08 9:54 P

Send Private Message
Reply
AspenJules,

I found the following link when I received my monthly newsletter from Polar.com and thought I would pass it your way. It has some really great insight to heart rate zones and such...hope this helps.

HAPPY RUNNING!
Nancy

articles.polar.fi/en/2_3_1_article.h
tm
l


WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
3/19/08 12:26 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
ASPENJULES:
The best way to set up your HR zones is to do a max HR test like Nancy (and I) have done but that's damn hard work, and not recommended more than once a year. I'm glad I did mine but it's a whole world of pain and I'm not sure whether I'd do one again...

An easier way to get your zones is to do a Lactate Threshold test (from Friel's Training Bible, great read, BTW) - I do it every 6-8 weeks or so for both cycling and running and work out my zones from there. I like this method as it's reasonably easy to do, is a good tempo workout in itself and doesn't take ages to recover from (like a max HR one does, at least for me). Also, LT is very trainable so this will move up with time and your zones can be adjusted as necessary.

So how do you do this? First, make sure you're well rested, hydrated and up for the test. Don't do this if you're feeling crappy. Then hop on the TM or flat road (I do an out-and-back flat straight stretch) and warm up well - 15 minutes. Then you're going to do a 30 minute all-out run. It's easier on the road as you can modulate your speed intuitively when you get tired... Your LT will be your average HR for the last 20 minutes of your run. Once you're done, cool down for 15 minutes and stretch well.

So you've got your LTHR, this gives you top of Z4 - anything above this is totally anaerobic, and hurts like hell after a couple of minutes. To work out the other zones, here's what you do (my zones are in brackets - I have an LTHR of 179):

Top Z1 (Recovery zone): LTHR x 0.847 (118-152)
Top Z2 (Endurance): LTHR x 0.907 (153-162)
Top Z3 (Tempo pace): LTHR x 0.953 (163-171)
Top Z4 (LT intervals): LTHR x 0.993 (172-178)
Top Z5 (Anaerobic): LTHR x 1.107 (179-198)

Remember this is not max HR so the multiplication factors are different. The LTHR method approximates my max HR rather well (196bpm).

So LSD run for me is no higher than Z2, tempo is high Z3-low Z4 and 5k pace is top Z4.

I'm also a strong believer in getting your RPE figured out with HR as HR can be off for one reason or another (overtraining, fatigue, dehydration etc). For me Z1-2 is conversational, Z3 is "irritatingly" hard, Z4 is a "don't talk to me" hard and Z5 is a "cough up a lung" hard.


In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


 current weight: 190.0 
 
210
202.5
195
187.5
180
SP_COACH_NANCY SparkPoints: (158,833)
Fitness Minutes: (112,042)
Posts: 46,222
3/19/08 8:58 A

Send Private Message
Reply
Adrian gave some really sound advice in his earlier post...all of which can be implemented by any runner.

My LSD runs are done in my zone 2, which for me is 134-146 bpm. My maximum HR is 184.

I actually had a VO2 max test done at my gym to determine my zones which are much higher than the 220-your age formula. My zone 1 is 124-134...zone 2 134-146...zone 3 146-160 Anaerobic threshold 160...zone 4 160-169 and zone 5 169 to 184. These zones are much higher than the zones I would be running using the formula 220-my age x 65%, 75% 85% or 95%.

Zone 2 and 3 should allow you to run at a comfortable pace. Zone 2 and the lower portion of zone 3 should definitely allow you to run at conversational pace. Once you hit the upper part of your zone 3, you should only be able to answer short questions. Once I hit my anaerobic threshold (AT) my breathing becomes more labored and it is very hard to concentrate on anything but getting through my run. I usually run at my AT for 5K race, but usually nothing longer. This is why training with a HRM is such an essential tool for keeping me motivated and making continual progress with my running.

HAPPY RUNNING!
Nancy


ASPENJULES's Photo ASPENJULES SparkPoints: (32,206)
Fitness Minutes: (19,110)
Posts: 7,429
3/18/08 6:58 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
How do I find out what the different zones are?

My max HR (according to the 220-(your age) formula) is 175. I'm wondering if I'm running well above where I should be? (Thinking probably so...)

AspenJules

"Living together in communities with respect and concern one for another is the hallmark of civilization.” SparkPeople is a civilized place which is why I love to live here! (Quote by Gordon B. Hinckley)

"The real voyage of discovery consists not of seeking new landscape, but in having new eyes." -Marcel Proust, French author and poet

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." - Yoda -
WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
3/18/08 5:39 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Hmm, it may seem that I'm stalking your posts, but I'm not, honest!

It doesn't matter what your LSD HR is in absolute terms, it's what it is RELATIVE to your max HR that is critical. You want to be in Zones 1-2 for your LSD run, absolutely no higher than a couple of beats into Z3. The HR formulas may work well for you and are a good start, but they don't work for me. If they don't for you, I'll post up my HR zones test - it's a lot more reliable and it's generally bang on for the zones.

My max HR is around 200bpm so top Z2 is 150bpm for me. In contrast, I know someone whos max HR is 160ish, so her LSD runs are at 120-130bpm which is top Z2 for her.

If you're not sure of your HR zones yet, then use RPE. For an LSD run, it's conversational pace, nothing more. If you find your breathing starting to pick up, take it down a bit - likewise, if you're singing along to all the songs on your iPod, you could go up a touch...


In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


 current weight: 190.0 
 
210
202.5
195
187.5
180
WORKINGON140's Photo WORKINGON140 Posts: 415
3/18/08 4:47 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
I ran my 5 mile long run Sunday, and my average heartrate was 143. I'm 30 yrs old...not sure if that's the range I should be running my LSD runs at or not. Can someone help me?

"It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~George Eliot


 Pounds lost: 0.0 
 
0
26.85
53.7
80.55
107.4
Page: 1 of (1)  

Report Innappropriate Post

Other Rookie Running Group General Team Discussion Forum Posts

Topics: Last Post:
Running playlist 5/22/2014 10:18:11 AM
Event Shout Out: August 12th to 18th 9/8/2013 9:00:38 PM
Hydration System Questions 7/27/2014 8:06:20 PM
NO excuses November!!! 12/4/2013 10:46:27 PM
Races for this week? 3/23/2014 10:17:22 AM

Thread URL: http://www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/team_messageboard_thread.asp?board=0x2189x13223626

Review our Community Guidelines