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STEADFASTNSEE Posts: 1,129
4/22/12 7:52 A

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"Not lack of information; lack of curiosity." You are so right. Maybe I need to start over and start writing (food log). I don't drink but I do know that I have triggers with some things. So, I start writing! Thanks for your help. HUGS Laurie

HUGS Laurie


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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
4/22/12 6:39 A

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Laurie - An easy way to ferret out sugary vegetables/fruits is with the glycemic index.. potato, and corn for example are higher than cauliflower, and green peppers, grapes higher than blackberries.

Being diabetic, I look at it from a blood sugar aspect. I am of the opinion that sugar of all kind is causing Syndrome X, and the obesity epidemic. These foods are the cause ( high glycemic foods ). A honey bun is obvious, but most people don't suspect a beet, or cheese, or fruit. Lactose, and fructose are sugars. Better than sucrose, but not by much in my opinion.

For me personally, a couple of oranges, is just as bad as a pop. Cheese isn't as big an issue for gout attacks, but is a trigger food for me. As Woubbie said, finding proof is hard, all I know is how it affects me. Through trial and error, I have narrowed my diet down to foods that do not cause high blood sugar, and that seems to help lower gout attack frequency. However, we may be wrong. Woubbie, Boss, and I, seem to be in the experimentation phase. I tried the gout diet, and it was as big a failure for me as the diabetic diet was, so I decided to test the theories.. I started with eating red meat, and no gout attacks. I have red meat 2 meals a week, without issue. Cheese caused me to binge, and the pop caused my only gout attack since Feb 12th. However, it was much milder, and in 24 hours, drinking plenty of water, it was done, I really do not eat fructose, because the health benefits versus the spike in blood sugar isn't worth it.

So even though they say not to, I eat red meat, and mushrooms. Not only is my goal to limit some foods, but to make sure I can increase intake of some foods. I believe that purines have been vilified, and since I eat more than 130 grams of protein daily, I just don't see the proof. Sometimes it is about asking the right question.

WOUBBIE - I was reading a book from 1968, not diet related, just was about the 1770's, and there were two brothers. One was gouty at 35, and the blame was on him drinking too much wine. I wonder if 300 years ago they had a firmer grasp on gout's origins, than we do today. It was called " A rich man's diet ". So many of the foods eaten by rich men, alcohol, meat etc is on the list of foods not to eat on gout. It could be that they just ate more sugar, since it was a luxury food, and the rest of these foods are perfectly fine. They just said that only rich men got gout, so the food they ate was bad.. not very scientific, and when I looked for a book on gout in our library( 85,000 sq. feet )., they had one book from 1952 on the subject. So the information is 60 years old, and we are just supposed to accept it.

Because of my diabetes, I went to classes, and asked about Atkins since they recommended cutting carbs 50%, I asked.. would 80% be better emoticon . They were not amused. I tried the diabetic diet for 5 years, and went from 361 to 340. One year I ate a pint of Ben & Jerry's and a 2 liter of Pepsi every single day. I had terrible binges, and couldn't control my eating, and obviously my blood sugars.

Then I saw a copy of Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution. I read the intro, and it sounded exactly like me. So 3 years ago I switched to low carb, instead of the diabetic diet, and on day 1, I ate 12 eggs, and two meals of 12 chicken thighs( with skin ).. no veggies..lol. I boiled the 24 chicken thighs, and ate the skin as they were cooling. Sounds sickening now, but I was following the advice to eat as much as I wanted. Funny thing is, I lost 6 lbs the next morning, and my blood sugar which had been over 400 that morining, was 90 the next. I ate 6 eggs, and 12 chicken thighs on day 2, and lost 4 lbs, and blood sugar of 70 the next morning.

Now I average about 100 when I see the doc, without any meds for 2 years.I reckon that if they were so wrong about diabetes, it would be prudent to question their theories on gout, which is less studied than diabetes. Until I was diagnosed, I had only heard about gout in the case of Benjamin Franklin. I think it is time, especially with technology available today, to learn the root causes of the disease. However, until they take up that cause, the best I can do is read related studies, and test these theories of mine, and share them through the internet with a few others.

BOSS came up with the idea about cheese. I had no issues except for higher blood sugar. I just put forth the idea of lactose being sugar. We may be way off, and just enjoying a 6 month hiatus from gout attacks due to warmer weather, or the cause is something ELSE I cut, but we can separate our foods, and though trial and error, find foods that cause a gout attack. For me this tends to be mostly pop, and along with n=my diabetes, I narrowed in on sugar.

None of this is proof, but I find it intriguing enough to start asking questions. If 500 people were testing a theory on this site, we would be doing a larger survey than most scientific studies. Since no one else is asking the questions, I guess we are. The problem is, it has no scientific background. It is mainly hunches, and un-scientific proof, since we aren't scientists, and have no control over the experiment, but what we put on it. So you are listening to theories, and results of self-experimentation, and you have to base whether it is believeable based on what you think of the source, and what your own mind is telling you.

Lets make a hypothetical situation: We stop drinking alcohol ( all 82 members on this board ), and no one has a single gout attack for 12 months.. so we say alcohol is a cause of gout.

Is this any worse than the belief that gout is a rich man's diet, so therefore all the foods he eats are bad for gout? Even if they tested the foods, nothing has been written since 1952 as far as I can see, so they are basing these ideas on experiments done in the stone age of science. You know, they were pretty good at diagnosing diabetes by drinking urine, and noting it was sweet. However I would question the methods closely..lol. I think a lot of the fault of older science stems from the lack of technology. Today it is the lack of curiosity.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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STEADFASTNSEE Posts: 1,129
4/21/12 11:15 P

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Man, If I had a page again I could blog a BOOK! lol. Thanks to both of you! HUGS!

HUGS Laurie


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4/21/12 10:47 P

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Fructose is a huge trigger for gout attacks, but other "-oses" - sucrose and lactose, for example - seem to come pretty close. Russell mentioned on one of his blogs that cheese with lactose in it ("milk sugar") caused carb cravings for him, but the lactose-free cheese he'd had before didn't. It seems likely that that could be what's setting off the gout attacks, but I honestly haven't read anything that specifically backs that up.

As to the beets - your best bet with all these potential triggers is to test them out. It's like testing for allergies. If you're flare free for a while, try a small serving. If you get symptoms, then Bingo - you know you have a problem with them. If not, it's a keeper.

The most important thing is to only test one variable at a time. Don't add anything else new to your diet, or you won't know which food caused the flare and which was innocent.

Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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STEADFASTNSEE Posts: 1,129
4/21/12 10:07 P

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It's just what caught my eye. Actually what caught my eye is the "fermenting" of BEETS! I Love beets!! emoticon Ah well. I went to an Italian place tonight with overpriced and not great quality food! Learned my lesson (sort of) You and Russel keep mentioning "cheese" Why is that bad for gout?

HUGS Laurie


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4/21/12 9:47 P

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Laurie, I'm glad you pointed those passages out again. That's almost certainly a clue in my alcohol metabolism puzzle! I think I might have to go to night school for organic chem to figure it out, but so be it!

I would definitely get some tests run by a good endocrinologist if possible. At the very least it's good to rule some of this stuff out, and at the worst, knowledge is power! If you know you're at risk you can at least start to take action.

Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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STEADFASTNSEE Posts: 1,129
4/21/12 9:11 P

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"... think beer would be worse than wine because the yeast, but alcohol in general isn't good except in small quantities.. kinda like chocolate."
I don't know why I got interested in the alcohol discussion; I couldn't have alcohol on a bet! (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome--now Alcohol Sensitive).

But another part of your post Russel; about not having foods that ferment, Let me find that;

" Its why we cant have alcohol on low carb, or even the vegetables that can make alcohol by fermenting( potato, beets, corn ). Same with fruits."

Does this mean, in my situation, I should be watchful of these as well? This really is a good informative site. But Woubbie I think I am going to find a doctor who will test me for these things and then get some real help. And maybe a nutritionist! HUGS!


HUGS Laurie


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4/21/12 8:50 P

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Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. Ancel Keys was so absolutely convinced that his dietary saturated fat theory was correct that he continued to promote it even when study after study did not support his conclusions. Bad science of the very worst sort.

Yet Atkins was absolutely vilified for daring to treat his patients with a program that worked, because it completely contravened and contradicted that shaky hypothesis. It's a shame that more of the biochemistry was not known when he started out in the 60's, or maybe the last 50 years of increasing obesity and illness would have been very different.

At the end of the day, scientists are only all too human, and subject to the same vanities as the rest of us. Unfortunately, the hubris of someone like Keys can do untold amounts of harm. People like him and George McGovern (who was largely responsible for that idiotic "food pyramid") really WANT to help people, but are so blinded by their belief in their own rightness that they refuse to question the very things that most need questioning.

The wind has finally changed direction away from low fat but it will likely take more than a full generation before we see results in waistlines, healthcare costs, and mortality figures. You can already see the signs everywhere - "good fats", "whole grains", etc. It will just take the world's agricultural and food processing economies a while to retool and figure out how to make money selling grass fed beef and organic cauliflower! Once they figure out that their tasty no-carb cheddar crisps will sell like hotcakes they'll be off to the races again. XD

Boss, I thought your question was more or less rhetorical! I work in purchasing, mostly at an administrative level. My Senior Manager and Managing Director are fully aware that I'm a real "catch", and also that they could never pay me what I'm worth. LOL! Of course, they then don't say a word when I spend a BIT more than my lunch hour posting comments on Sparkpeople!

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My DH is the toughest sell out there. He WILL listen to a reasoned, documented argument, which is why I'm spending inordinate amounts of time learning some of this stuff before I present it to him - hopefully with some kind of solution as well. I truly believe that we fat people are not fat because we are weak or lazy or slothful, but because parts of our food supply make us fat, and I suspect the same is true of alcohol addiction. Somewhere out there is the key, and I'm just the girl to locate it!

Edited by: WOUBBIE at: 4/21/2012 (20:55)
Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
4/21/12 8:10 P

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Doesn't it always seem like scientists never ask the next question? They agree A and B are related, but never ask if A+B = C.

So we are left to connect studies like we did dots as children to try to form a picture. In the end we have suspicions by putting these ideas together, but if it isn't interesting, or able to make anyone enough money, they never tie them up.

I think it is logical that with all of these things happening in modern society, there is one cause, or several related causes that increase obesity, and the related diseases. They call it Syndrome X, but besides low carb people like Atkins, or guys like Gary Taubes, they really aren't looking for the cause.

I guess curing this problem is detrimental to the pocketbook.

Livestrong.com is a great source.

Edited by: RUSSELL_40 at: 4/21/2012 (20:13)
"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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4/21/12 7:38 P

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Wow - Woubbie you are such a tremendous resource - your DH doubtlessly is squandering the dynamo of health-related wisdom accessible to him 24-7. So, back to my first question, do you apply this at work?

And as for Docs, Steadfast, mine will not give a refillable script for anything, lest I not have to revisit him... cha-ching...

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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4/21/12 7:37 P

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Sorry, I didn't have the heart to add any more to that last post!!

The most telling bit of the second guy's reply was this:

Reference 3 states that "The mechanism(s) underlying the increasing hyperglycemia in chronically drinking diabetics are still unknown".

So, you're absolutely right that drinking a lot of alcohol does elevate blood sugar, but just how your body does that is really up for grabs. One drink actually tends to LOWER blood sugar. I read a Type 1 forum where people were comparing their experiences and it was agreed that they would be hypoglycemic while they were out drinking and then wake up in the morning hyperglycemic.

What I, personally, am taking away from this is that I can have, at most, 2 beers a night.



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Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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4/21/12 7:17 P

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Laurie - It's true that the Internet is full of a lot of fluff, misinformation, and personal opinion, so I usually look for info on a subject from a range of sources. Believe it or not I find Wikipedia to be the best starting place. The strong suit of any wiki is that it tends to balance the information by allowing opposing viewpoints or interpretations to have their say, even if it's only one sentence or one paragraph. What's most important in Wikipedia's case is their footnotes, which can give you a lead on where to look for more information on a given subject. A lot of times I do find an interesting trail in the footnotes, but sometimes not and it's back to Google

I try to read the standard interpretation from respected sources like the Mayo Clinic, but I also see them as having the same biases that you'll find in a lot of doctors' offices. :) Surprisingly, lately I seem to be getting some of the most interesting and cutting edge leads from Livestrong.com! I'm starting to really like that site!

As to interpretations of the hard science, you find a lot of interesting material on forums, particularly grad school forums, but you can't always know who to trust, so I look for multiple backup on that material.

Russell - I wish it were as straightforward as that, but the chemical process that leads from drinking too much alcohol to having metabolic syndrome is still pretty unclear on a fundamental level. The information is probably out there in some form, but no one is asking the right questions.

I think it's a lot like how biochemists had deciphered much of our hormones' effects on our appetite, metabolism, and health, but still didn't synthesize that knowledge into any cohesive hypothesis of "why we get fat and what to do about it". It's been up to front line physicians looking for real solutions for their patients (like Atkins and Eades) to piece together what really goes on under our hoods. Someone like Gary Taubes just needs to come along and tidy up the tangle of literature and studies and redefine the questions clinicians should be asking.

Here's the best single description of the "does alcohol turn into sugar?" discussion I've found, but this is just two guys shooting the breeze. Pretty early on it gets too technical for me to follow and be sure that they have their facts straight. Hold on tight - this is long!

=============================

Subject: How does alcohol consumption raise blood sugar levels?
Date: Sun Oct 22 01:23:43 2000
Posted by Jonathan
Grade level: undergrad School: Mayland Community College
City: Burnsville State/Province: North Carolina Country: USA
Area of science: Biochemistry
ID: 972192223.Bc

Message:
I've always been told by endocrinologists that alcohol is bad for diabetics because it turns to sugar once consumed. A while back I got into an argument with a drunk dietician who claimed that alcohol did not become sugar when metabolized. Please explain the process by which alcohol consumption raises blood sugar levels in diabetics. Thank you.


Re: How does alcohol consumption raise blood sugar levels?
Date: Mon Nov 6 03:14:21 2000
Posted By: Kevin Caldwell, Faculty, Neurosciences, University of New Mexico
Area of science: Biochemistry
ID: 972192223.Bc

Message:
In regard to the metabolism of ethanol, the "drunk" dietitian is, in general, correct. The reason that I said that the dietitian is "in general" correct is because of the possibility that the some of the ethanol may be, indirectly, converted to glucose (see below). Alcohol (specifically, ethanol) is metabolized primarily in the liver. First, it is converted to acetaldehyde, which is then converted to acetate (References 1 and 2). The acetate formed by these reactions can be: 1) released into the blood and eventually eliminated in the urine, 2) converted to carbon dioxide and eliminated via the lungs or 3) utilized in a variety of biosynthetic reactions. In the last case, the acetate is converted to a molecule termed acetyl coenzyme A. Acetyl coenzyme A is utilized in the synthesis of lipids and amino acids. In addition, acetyl coenzyme A is used in the tricarboxylic acid (TCA) cycle, which produces a molecule termed oxaloacetate, which, in turn, can be converted to glucose via a process called gluconeogenesis. Thus, it is possible that, indirectly, a small amount of an ingested amount of ethanol may be metabolized to sugar. However, I can not tell you definitively that this occurs- that is, I am not certain whether the two carbons that enter the TCA cycle in the form of acetate are present in the glucose molecule that
is synthesized, or whether they are lost in the form of carbon dioxide during the synthetic steps. A biochemist knowledgeable in metabolic pathways should be able to answer this question for you. Regardless, only a small fraction of an ingested amount of ethanol would be converted to glucose and this probably does not contribute significantly to the observed effects of ethanol on blood sugar in diabetics (see below).

Consumption of ethanol by diabetics can elevate, or lower, blood sugar levels, depending on whether the individual has recently eaten, or has been fasting, and whether the individual chronically consume alcohol, or not (Reference 3-4). Chronic consumption of alcohol by well-nourished diabetics is associated with hyperglycemia (increased blood sugar). Reference 3 states that "The mechanism(s) underlying the increasing hyperglycemia in chronically drinking diabetics are still unknown". There are some suggestions that this may be the result of reduced insulin responsiveness (reference 4). Acute (single exposure) consumption of moderate amounts of alcohol by a well-nourished diabetic (either type 1 or 2), who does not chronically consume alcohol, generally, "does not lead to significant changes in blood sugar levels" (reference 3). Alcohol consumption by people who are in the fasting state (i.e., they have not recently eaten) produces hypoglycemia (reduced blood sugar levels). This effect occurs in both type 1 and type 2 diabetics, as well as in non-diabetics (reference 3).

REFERENCES
1 Weathermon & Crabb (1999) Alcohol Research & Health World Vol. 23, No.
1, pp. 40-54.

2 http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/aug20
00/967651805.Bc.r.html

3 Emanuele, Swade, & Emanuele (1998) Alcohol Research & Health World Vol.
22, No. 3, pp. 211-219.

4 Gordis (1994) Alcohol Alert, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and
Alcoholism No. 26 PH352 October 1994.

Edited by: WOUBBIE at: 4/21/2012 (19:18)
Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
4/21/12 6:44 P

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Woubbie, I would think that since sugar is the basis for making alcohol, it would be an obvious cause of elevated blood sugar. Its why we cant have alcohol on low carb, or even the vegetables that can make alcohol by fermenting( potato, beets, corn ). Same with fruits.

Alcohol would also bring on cancer, and all the symptoms of Syndrome X in my opinion. Diabetes have been linked, so if beer for example can cause hyperglycemia, gout would be an expected next step.

I think beer would be worse than wine because the yeast, but alcohol in general isn't good except in small quantities.. kinda like chocolate.

Edited by: RUSSELL_40 at: 4/21/2012 (18:56)
"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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STEADFASTNSEE Posts: 1,129
4/21/12 5:41 P

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I'd like to know where you get your information as well Woubbie! One of the idiotic things my "Doctor" said yesterday was "Don't believe everything you read on the internet"! She had me BOILING! But I would like to do some research as well. And thank you for helping us out dear! emoticon

HUGS Laurie


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4/21/12 2:05 P

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No one is willing to stick their necks out at this time and make that assertion. There may well be a fair percentage (10%? 15%? 20%?) that are more likely a combination of heredity (ie., a predilection to uric acid crystallization), and other triggers (ie., some other root cause of the inflammation that would trigger uric acid production). For example, as I mentioned (sort of) below, there doesn't seem to be a lot of research available to explain why alcoholics have high blood sugar and, frequently, metabolic syndrome when they're clearly not getting it from their food intake.

One interesting factoid is that in virtually all documented cases when western medical practitioners have practiced in primitive locales that did not have a western diet full of grain and added sugars (and, as you've come to find out, modern hybridized fruits function a lot like added sugars) all the diseases of civilization are completely absent. There is nearly no obesity, heart disease, diabetes, gout, osteoporosis, rheumatoid arthritis, Alzheimer's, or cancer. Most deaths are due to trauma or infection.

When wheat/rice/corn and refined sugar are introduced, within a generation all of those diseases begin to appear. Not a coincidence IMHO. Cancer, for instance, is only fueled by glucose - take the glucose out of your diet and cancer cells are unable to reproduce, and they begin to die off. Unlike the rest of the cells in our bodies, cancer cells are unable to metabolize fat from ketone bodies and can ONLY use glucose for fuel, which some researchers are postulating may be what actually defines them as cancerous - a defect in metabolism. (As a side note, "Pancreatic cancers use the sugar fructose, very common in the Western diet, to activate a key cellular pathway that drives cell division, helping the cancer to grow more quickly, a study by researchers at UCLA’s Jonsson Comprehensive Cancer Center has found." *shivers* Pancreatic cancer runs in my family on my mom's side and all of those fine ladies were sugar junkies. *shivers again* It's a bad way to go....)

Getting back to your original question, it's likely that the vast majority of gout cases have the same root cause as metabolic syndrome, though certainly not all. The remaining ones are likely due to another cause of internal inflammation - perhaps an infection or other hormonal imbalance. (This is truly speculation, though. I haven't found a whole lot of info on it yet.)

All the science that I've read in the last year points the big ugly finger at sugar and starch as the drivers of insulin overproduction, which in turn drives insulin resistance and, almost incidentally, obesity. Whether it's the uric acid or the insulin itself that causes the inflammation that causes virtually everything else is a little beyond my scientific understanding at this point. But you KNOW I'll keep you posted!

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Edited by: WOUBBIE at: 4/21/2012 (14:12)
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4/21/12 12:54 P

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Woubbie, you are a wealth of good information. One wonders what you do as a day job!

My gout lately has been like this: nada. Once Iearned here that citrus fruit can be a trigger, I dialed my consumption way back and my sensation of always being "on the cusp" of a flare-up also vanished. Cheese and beer both are seeming gout triggers for me; I don't have either much at all any more.

Missing from your tome is whether having gout means you have metabolic syndrome, or whether one can have (what I will call) "simple gout." Any thoughts?

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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4/21/12 11:28 A

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Agreed. Gout is one of those ailments that non-sufferers tend to pooh-pooh, like "oh, what a nuisance" but it's obviously potentially very debilitating. I think you're on the right track to avoiding major trouble with it in the future because you're identifying not only your own personal triggers, but you're avoiding the root problem, which is all the starchy, sugary, carby foods that seem to drive the illness.

I'm currently on my own research mission to discover how alcohol ties in to metabolic syndrome. I put away a few beers a day myself, but my husband is borderline alcoholic. He's a skinny guy, but he developed high blood pressure 5 or 6 years ago, and he's also gotten a pot belly. At his last doctor's visit the tests showed that his blood sugar was slightly elevated.

!!!!! It's never been anything but normal before. The second I saw that report I rounded on him and told him that the writing was on the wall for him and it was time to get serious about cutting down to a safe level or quitting entirely. It got a bit ugly and we just let it drop, but a day or so later when I rephrased it in terms of "Your dad died at 54 from all the horrible side effects of type 2 and...."

Screech. "Type 2? My dad didn't have type 2. He took insulin shots all those years."

Blink, blink. "Umm. Yeah, he did. He was insulin resistant, so needed a ton more insulin to metabolize blah...blah...blah..."

It turns out that DH is completely clueless about the differences between type 1 and type 2 and had no idea that one was nearly the opposite of the other. I have my work cut out for me....

Didn't mean to rant here; I think I started out with the intention of reassuring you that as long as you keep your blood sugar and insulin levels tightly under control you're not likely to have those serious problems down the road. But you probably will always have to be super vigilant.

I've also been reading a lot here and there on uric acid and its function in this whole process, and here's the likely scenario:

~ Uric acid is an antioxidant. While most mammals are able to produce their own Vitamin C (ascorbic acid), primates evolved a different mechanism - uric acid. (This is why cats and dogs don't need to eat fruits LOL! This is also why, on a low carb diet WE don't need to eat fruits either.)

~ Antioxidants exist to counter free radicals. "Some free radicals arise normally during metabolism. Sometimes the body's immune system cells purposefully create them to neutralize viruses and bacteria. However, environmental factors can also spawn free radicals." http://www.healthchecksystems.com/antioxid
.htm

~ "Excess sugar in the blood appears to increase the production of free radicals--byproducts of normal metabolism that have been linked to aging and heart disease, US researchers report. The finding may help to explain the increased risk of heart disease and circulatory problems in diabetics (who have high blood sugar), and in the obese. High sugar levels trigger increased free-radical production by white blood cells, leading to arterial damage and blocked arteries, the authors note."

~ So, excess sugar in blood = increase in free radicals = increased uric acid production = increased risk for gout.

Not everyone with an increased uric acid level/metabolic syndrome has gout, but anyone with metabolic syndrome has an increased risk of developing gout. It all seems to come down to the inflammation caused by the free radicals. The uric acid is just trying to do its job.

Why some people experience crystallization and some people don't is probably down to heredity, but the real scary part is not the gout itself but what causes it - the same thing that causes metabolic syndrome - excess amounts of useless sugar and starch in our diets.

As a last note (didn't mean to get this long-winded!), small amounts of alcohol are known to be beneficial because they lower your cells' insulin resistance, and, well, make you less diabetic-like. It also lowers your blood sugar level. (That's one drink for women and two drinks for men. The difference is not because of relative size, it's probably because of hormones and the bodies' differing fat percentages.)

Anything over that limit of drinks, though, is completely detrimental. This is where I'm having trouble getting the research done. At some point your body switches from being slightly hypoglycemic (low blood sugar) and flips over to hyperglycemic (high blood sugar). Alcoholics very commonly develop metabolic syndrome, even if their diets are low in carbs and they drink relatively low carb alcohol.

Still researching that end of things (and slow going it is! There's almost as much hooey about why alcoholics develop metabolic syndrome as there is about everyone else. Hey, let's put the alkys on a low fat diet and see what that does for them! LOL!)

OK. Shutting up now.



Edited by: WOUBBIE at: 4/21/2012 (11:32)
Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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I shop for meat at an Amish store. Well, a few months ago when I found out I had gout, I was talking to the proprietor of the store, and she has gout too. She had to have surgery to remove deposits, and her foot had cracked down the center. She is in a cast for 6 weeks now, and will have another 8 weeks in a boot.

My brother has problems now with his knee, but since Feb. 12th, I have had only 2 days of any pain, and that was cuz I drank pop, and ate cheese( I think ). It is scary to think I may have all this pain in the future.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

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