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WOUBBIE's Photo WOUBBIE SparkPoints: (68,851)
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4/2/12 1:19 P

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There is some heavy-handed science in this presentation (mostly in the charts - his lecture is pretty clear, actually), but some very interesting points about fructose metabolism, uric acid, and purines. It's kinda long, just under an hour, and I haven't had time to listen to the end, but I thought I'd get the link out here in case anyone was interested.

www.slideshare.net/nephron/uric-acid
-f
ructose-and-hypertension



It's specifically showing the links between uric acid and hypertension (high blood pressure), but starts to tie together where gout fits in the whole metabolic syndrome schema.

Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
3/3/12 7:58 P

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Well, I was on diabetes meds.. 3 pills, and got rid of that, and hope this works enough to get me off this Allopurinol pill. I think that we take pills becuase of the foods we eat, and the damage they do, and by stopping that, we can stop the pills. The body adjusts very easily, when we stop messing it up.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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BOSS61's Photo BOSS61 SparkPoints: (14,304)
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3/3/12 2:55 P

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1 and 4 - Pressure from the fruit-growers lobby?

2 - I'm not yet ready for a pill-a-day-for-the-rest-of-my-life!

Welcome again!

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
3/3/12 2:45 P

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1) Anything sugary.. I think a low glycemic fruit might be okay, like berries, but why risk it? I can get nutrients elsewhere.

2) I take Allopurinol 300 mg, it didn't do much to stop it before, but hopefully it is some help.

3) last October, I thought I twisted my ankle. I was taking Vicodin, and soaking my foot in ice, then tried Ibuprofen when it started to swell. I struggled through November and December, pain at work, discomfort at home. Finally in mid-December, I got tested, and was told to see a podiatrist.. five minutes later I had ordered orthotics..$350 .. and two days later my doc called to tell me I had gout. The pain in my foot moved around a lot. First in my ankle, then the top of the foot, and the big toe rarely. After being diagnosed I started having the bottom of my foot become so bad, I couldn't stand on it. This went on bi-weekly for 2 months, till now. tthree weeks and counting, but who nows when the next flare-up will be. Low sugar is just a theory, but it is working better than before.

4) I waited till the end of my last flare-up to restart Atkins, and cut out sugars. so it could just be the Allopurinol is finally working? or I am just lucky? I'll have to wait, but this is the best I have done for a while. I can't test other people, but this is not a new idea. Cutting sugar out is also a widely accepted idea by most diets, but then they tell you to pump up the fruit intake...?? I think at best it should be rare.. like dessert.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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3/3/12 2:25 P

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Wow FOUR active members. I'm so happy I could juggle my indometh tablets on the end of my nose like a seal.

OK Russell - questions:

1. Is fruit your trigger? All fruit? Anything sugary? Is there a quantity? Any other food or drink triggers? Lifestyle factors of any kind?

2. Are you taking a medication for your chronic susceptibility?

3. For how long were you undiagnosed?

4. Did it vanish like "poof" or was there a process?

Many thanks.

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
3/3/12 1:55 P

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I first was diagnosed with gout in December, after several painful months. I was having a day or 2 of a flare-up every 10-14 days. Since re-Inducting, I have cut out all sugar, including fruit, and not even the cramping that comes a day before a full flare-up. My foot feels great, and I am walking an hour a day.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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3/2/12 8:06 P

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Now we're headed in the correct direction again. Welcome back Smokey!

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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3/2/12 6:11 P

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(((hugs)))

Yay!

Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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ALPHASENIOR's Photo ALPHASENIOR Posts: 681
3/2/12 4:50 P

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Feeling a little sheepish, but

I'M BAAAAACK!

emoticon

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2/28/12 10:43 P

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This is an interesting link from Livestrong:

www.livestrong.com/article/485053-wh
y-
fructose-elevates-uric-acid/


Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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2/28/12 5:01 P

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Hey Smokey803 - relax ok? It was supposed to be a joke! All are welcome of course.

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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ALPHASENIOR's Photo ALPHASENIOR Posts: 681
2/28/12 3:45 P

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So sorry. Goodbye

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2/28/12 1:41 P

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Look what ill-deserved fame has brought me now!

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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2/25/12 1:28 P

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No pressure, there, Bossman!

Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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2/25/12 1:12 P

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May I join you? Since I've had only two gout attacks so far, maybe I'm too something to join this group (couple?). Red meat is a trigger for me, that much I do know, but I still don't know where is the tipping point. Once a week, once a month? I don't know.
Doesn't some fruit contain more sugar than other fruit?
Since we're discussing uric acid, wouldn't citrus be a real troublemaker?
And because I read the Boss' blog which led me here, I am making him responsible for my attitude and my future good health.
Any suggestions or advice will be appreciated, I promise.

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2/18/12 2:31 P

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Damn, well that really stinks. My daily fruit intake is up sharply since I found my way here. And so seem my frequency of low-level flare-ups. Thanks for the education; makes perfect sense. Damn again.

And kick Russell's butt and get him out here. We need company!

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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2/18/12 12:42 P

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Yup. Not simplistic at all. I think that's definitely the interpretation.

Modern fruits have been hybridized over centuries for additional sweetness, which makes them more yummy, but loaded with fructose. For some people that may not be a problem, but it seems to me that if you're already overweight, have blood sugar issues, gout, or any of the other conditions that are adversely affected by fructose, then fruit needs to be an occasional treat like chocolate, and you need to get most of your vitamins and minerals from meat and veggies instead.

I used to love fruit as a kid, but as I matured I found that it gave me heartburn most of the time, so I gradually switched to eating vegetables instead. I was surprised to find a lot of people here on Spark reporting the same problem!

An off-the-gout-topic note - fructose is also implicated in NAFLD, which is non alcoholic fatty liver disease. The increase in this disease (which is cirrhosis that's not caused by alcohol) is just staggering, and it is in lockstep with the rest of the syndrome - type 2, heart disease, gout, etc.

Fructose, unlike glucose, is only metabolized in the liver, and the excessive amounts that are in the typical SAD (Standard American Diet) are likewise staggering. It's in everything, it seems! Sadly, the powers that be are still recommending lots of fruit and (worse, in my opinion) fruit juices to improve our diets.

And yes, we're the only two people active here. :) The Sparkfriend that I'm doing this research for is reluctant to actually join this group for some reason, so I generally post any interesting studies I find here first and then cross post to his page. I should hook you two guys up! Russell's an interesting dude, as long as you don't mind chatting with a Lions fan.

emoticon

His name is RUSSELL37. He started at 361 and has been hovering around 250-260 lately, because of various health problems, the chief of which is his newly diagnosed gout. It's painful to watch him struggle to get control of the gout only to sabotage other aspects of his health in the process. He's a real fighter, though, and he just never seems to give up trying to find the right balance and the right answer, so a bunch of us kind of "watch his back" trying to help him work through his problems.

One thing he did reveal a couple of months back is that he's been "holding out on us" and has been downing pretty fair quantities of his beloved Pepsi a bit too often, and it's pretty likely tied to his flareups.

I think the agony of the gout is finally starting to convince him that even the Pepsi has to go because at this point he'd be willing to do almost anything to avoid future flareups. They're literally disabling him and he's truly committed to finding a solution.

Edited by: WOUBBIE at: 2/18/2012 (12:45)
Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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2/18/12 6:35 A

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Well, simplistic me would interpret that a high intake of fruit could be a gout trigger? Am i missing something?

BTW, you and I are the only active members it seems.

"Some day we will look back on this, and it will all seem funny" - Bruce Springsteen (The real BOSS, as opposed to me.)





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2/17/12 4:18 P

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I also came across this explanation of the chemical connection. Fructose actually breaks down to uric acid:

"In order for the liver to process fructose, it must be phosphorylated by removal of phosphates from adenosine triphosphate (ATP). The ATP gets converted to adenosine monophosphate (AMP), then to inositol monophosphate (IMP), and finally to uric acid,[67] the agent in gout."

Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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2/17/12 2:03 P

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(Bear in mind that HFCS is typically 55% fructose and 42% glucose, while regular table sugar is 50% fructose and 50% glucose)

Soft Drinks, Fructose Consumption, and the Risk of Gout in Men: Prospective Cohort Study
Choi, Hyon and Curhan, Gary
bmj.com, January 31, 2008
doi:10.1136/bmj.39449.819271.BE

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/96
16
4.php


According to a recent study published on bmj.com, men who drink sugary soft drinks and eat fructose have an increased risk of gout.

Gout is a disease caused by a buildup of uric acid in the blood (hyperuricemia) that provokes an inflammatory reaction in tissues and joints. It is often painful and is most common in men 40 years of age and older. Over the last few decades, levels of gout in the United States have doubled. This increase has coincided with higher levels of soft drinks and fructose consumption - fructose is a simple sugar that increases uric acid levels.

Usually, patients with gout are told to restrict consumption of alcohol and meat products such as liver and kidney that contain organic compounds called purines. It is unconventional to restrict consumption of sugary soft drinks.

Researchers in the US and Canada analyzed the link between sugar intake - through soft drinks and fructose in food - and the risk of gout. Following over 46,000 men (with no history of gout) aged 40 or over for 12 years, the researchers compiled data on food intake of more than 130 foods and beverages, including regular and diet soft drinks as well as fruits and fruit juices that are naturally high in fructose. Every two years after the beginning of the study, the researchers collected data on weight, use of medications, and medical conditions. During the 12-year period, 755 newly diagnosed cases of gout were recorded.

Major findings include:

As the intake of sugar sweetened soft drinks increased, the risk of gout increased
Compared to men who consumed less than one serving of soft drinks per month, those who consumed 5-6 servings per week significantly raised their risk of gout by 29%
Those who consumed two or more servings per day significantly increased their risk by 85% compared to those who consumed less than one serving per month
Diet soft drinks were not associated with the risk of gout
Foods rich in fructose such as fruits and fruit juices were associated with increased risk of gout
Results of the study are independent of other gout risk factors such as body mass index, age, use of diuretics, blood pressure, alcohol consumption, and diet. The authors caution that the findings regarding fruit and fruit juices should be carefully interpreted, keeping in mind that consumption of fruits and vegetables has been associated with prevention of high blood pressure, heart disease, stroke, and some cancers

Half of what we know is wrong. The purpose of science is to discover which half.


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