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OLGRIMSFATE's Photo OLGRIMSFATE Posts: 26
10/19/09 2:04 P

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Ya i understand. Just because there is something wrong with your physical body that doesnt mean that there is a dagger automatically plunged in to your spirit. Some times the body just does what the body wants to. Just like no matter how well you take care of your car and change the oil, it still breaks down.

Soul loss is a funny thing. Everyones spirit is different, and every ones spirit finds different things traumatic. I can cut my finger open with a knife and think no more about it then oops. If my mother did the same thing well...its not good.

But isnt that what makes life so awesome at times? By our very diversity we become one. If everyone was the same nobody would grow or change. One of my best friends came into shamanism about the same time I did. We have VERY different outlooks on spirituality, who God is, and all that stuff. It was those very disscutions that brought us closer together. Disagreement tied our friendship up closer.

But on another note Shamanisom has helped me big time in my weight loss. Because no matter what I always have a support system. My helping spirits. At any time I can travel to non ordinary reality and complain and wine and cry and do all that kinds of stuff and there right there ready and willing to help and comfort, give streanth. I know that Wicca is all about the God and the Goddess. Shamanism focuses on spirits. Its something that in itself is not a religion, but is partner to a religen or practice.

Concentration rooted in intention through the transfer of energy, communications, healing and sacrifice, are the cornerstones of all magic and the building blocks of all change.

Given to me by a close friend of mine.
CATHWREN's Photo CATHWREN SparkPoints: (55,019)
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10/19/09 1:35 P

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A few years ago I had a series of migraines that were intense. To complicate things I took so much pain medication I ended up with Rebound Syndrome which is where the medication actually makes the problem worse. At the same time I was very active with several groups of a spiritual nature.

I remember driving to work one day and thinking I'd never been so happy and so miserable at the same time.

So, one can manage to stay spiritual during periods of dis-ease, or other of life's slings and arrows for that matter, though it is not always easy.

BB

)O( )O( )O( )O(
CathWren


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CASSARAH's Photo CASSARAH Posts: 307
10/19/09 1:04 A

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Thank you! I really enjoyed reading everyone's post on this thread so far. I don't get to talk religion much anymore and I think I got a little wordy because I was excited to get a thought out. I really should make it over here more often. Busy life always gets in the way of it though. *hugs* back! :)

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MISS_BETH12's Photo MISS_BETH12 Posts: 3,982
10/18/09 10:00 P

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I second that, thank you for the awesome post! :D

"Fall 7 times, get up 8." ~Chinese Proverb


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OLGRIMSFATE's Photo OLGRIMSFATE Posts: 26
10/18/09 7:14 P

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Ya i agree totally. Sometimes its hard to point to a line and say "Theres the balance between." When we deal it the spirit body relationship each one effects the other, and pointing to the original culprit, body or spirit, can be very difficult. I was just pointing out that Shamans as of late have been ignoring the fact that the body DOES effect the spirit, instead of it being the spirits fault 100Persent of the time.

BTW what an awsome post. Consider yourself hugged =)

Concentration rooted in intention through the transfer of energy, communications, healing and sacrifice, are the cornerstones of all magic and the building blocks of all change.

Given to me by a close friend of mine.
CASSARAH's Photo CASSARAH Posts: 307
10/18/09 1:40 P

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I think when it comes to the body - soul connection it goes both ways (sort of). I believe that dis-ease first comes from the spirit plane and slowly manifests in the physical. That being said, if we do not take care of our body then when cannot focus on our spiritual side. However, if we are not taking care of our body it usually has something to do with the spiritual plane. There is another issue more pressing.

I agree that our bodies are our temples, the Divine resides in all of us (or we all reside in the Divine). It is important to take care of our bodies and our homes because it brings to our attention the divinity of it all (when you see your altar all dirty and unorganized you quickly clean it up in honor of the Gods; should be the same with your home and body). It's also easier to take care of a problem and to even notice an issue early on when things are ordered. It's difficult to work out of chaos (unless you're discordian, but even then it's a managed chaos).

An easy way to firgure out what inner work you should be working on right now; look at how you are judging others. What issues are you noticing in your friends and family? Odds are, you need to work on that yourself.

Note on meditation:
There are many types of meditation, clearing your mind is just one type. It's very easy to incorporate meditation into your life every day. If you have a treadmill or stairstepper you can do "walking meditation" and get some exercise. Keep it simple and light (the walking or stair climbing) and set a timer for five minutes to start. Just focus on your body, or one area of your body while doing your walking meditation. You can also focus your attention on a physical symbol (a drawn symbol of what you are striving to achieve, or a candle, or a representation of the element associated with what you want). Meditation is important because 1) it's you time. It's time away from everything else. Phones should be off, tv's, radios, children should be in another room supervised by someone else. It's you time. Schedule it every day. 2) it clears your mind. You will stop dwelling on the past and the future. It brings you to the present where your focus should be. 3) it opens you up to the Divine.



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OLGRIMSFATE's Photo OLGRIMSFATE Posts: 26
10/18/09 1:16 A

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Hey you guys. Been away from my compy for a few days ='( so havent been able to post.

Cath thats an interesting point and one that I think is something good to discuss.

I think it boils down to trauma and how it affects different people. Ive known big people, skinny people, buff people, and not so buff people, all of whome think there is something terribly wrong with their bodies. But at the same time ive known people who where big and unhealthy and had no problem with themselves. I wager its the same way with somebody with a disability. Some except it and some dont.

When somebody experiences a trauma, like a car wreck, divorce, falling off a bike, basically anything the individual considers traumatic, part of the persons soul or vital essence, will depart, choosing to leave in order to save itself the full brunt of the trauma. Much like taking a bite out of an apple, the soul now is no longer whole, a chunk of it is missing. Shamanism calls this phenomenon simply as "Soul Loss" Most of the time the symptoms of this a things like, seeming to watch your life from a distance, like your watching events happen like on a movie screen, chronic depression, feelings of not being "All There", or feeling like you haven't been the same seance a trauma. The thing is that 75percent of the time peoples soul parts come back all on there own. Kinda like bumping you elbow on table. It hurts and theirs a bruise there for a bit but ultimately the color comes back and no harm no fowl. But sometimes the soul doesn't come back, and the Shaman will go to non ordinary reality to retrieve the soul and bring it back to the person.

I guess what im trying to get at is: If for instance im overweight and it causes me to feel so bad about my self that it causes me enough trauma that my soul leaves to save it self. It has the same affect as loosing your legs in a car crash. Both are examples of body effecting the spirit, not the other way around.

I just want to point out also that im not saying loosing your legs and being over weight are on the same footing. IM the one who made me over weight not someone else. Wear as loosing your legs is something you were unable to help. Both have there own problems associated with them. Im just making the point that each are body affecting spirit. And the spirit is fixed the same way in both cases.

I hope that makes seance. But for trying to keep balance in my own life. I write, go for walks, meditate/do shamanic journeys, do lots and lots of praying =)

Concentration rooted in intention through the transfer of energy, communications, healing and sacrifice, are the cornerstones of all magic and the building blocks of all change.

Given to me by a close friend of mine.
DREODHIEL's Photo DREODHIEL Posts: 24
10/17/09 7:27 P

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Since college started back up about 3 weeks ago, I have been in a very depressed state as I feel I have left my spirituality by the wayside. School and home responsibilities have somehow taken priority over my religious practices. I had forgotten that my body is a temple and that I have been honoring the Lord and Lady every time I go to my aerobics class and every day that I eat a healthy lunch at school. I feel so much better now. Thank you for this post. I think it will really help me. emoticon

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MISS_BETH12's Photo MISS_BETH12 Posts: 3,982
10/15/09 10:59 P

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The thing is, you can be disabled but also healthy. For example, my uncle is paralyzed from the waist down but he is a very healthy person. So disabled doesn't always mean your not healthy. Sometimes it means that, yes, but not always. But I do see your point though. :)

I don't know about everyone else, but I am in desperate need of doing a meditation. I haven't done one in a long time, and I think it will help me feel more in tune with myself and my spirit. And well, I can use some healing right now. :)

"Fall 7 times, get up 8." ~Chinese Proverb


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CATHWREN's Photo CATHWREN SparkPoints: (55,019)
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10/13/09 1:40 P

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Bethie said: I think it makes sense; if your physical self is healthy, so will your spiritual self.

I'm not completely sure about that; disabled people can still be spiritual and healthy people can still be spiritually bereft.

But there is a connection. I DO believe that they influence each other. Certainly it is harder for me to be spiritually healthy when I'm in pain and when I'm more in touch with my spirit I'm either in less pain or it doesn't bother me as much.

There is also the possibility that a person who is disabled or unhealthy will focus more on their spirit because it their only escape.

Then there is the question of how to use spiritual or energy healing. I practice several modalities most of which are heavily shamanistic. While I have used it successfully with seriously ill people, mostly I use it to ease the spirit so that healing is simpler for the body. Before I do anything else, I clear the chakras and make sure the chi is flowing smoothly between Earth and Sky. Sometimes that alone is enough but if not, I'll also address places of dis-ease with more specific "treatments."

How do others practice actual healing between body and spirit?

)O( )O( )O( )O(
CathWren


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MISS_BETH12's Photo MISS_BETH12 Posts: 3,982
10/12/09 6:51 P

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Thank you! I wish more people were replying to this, because I think it's an intriguing subject!

I agree, I think when we take care of ourselves, we are honoring the God and Goddess. I know when I eat right and exercise I feel more in tune with my spiritual self. Of course, my temple recently got some "renovations" but it is something that will ultimately make me the healthy person I desire to be and I know that I will be more and more in tune with my spiritual self as I lose weight. By the way, I really like how you phrased this: "The sacrifice of weight as a gift to the God or Goddess, or honor the helping spirits that guide us. What better way to accomplish such a thing but in a temple." That's awesome! You rock too! :D

"Fall 7 times, get up 8." ~Chinese Proverb


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OLGRIMSFATE's Photo OLGRIMSFATE Posts: 26
10/11/09 11:20 P

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Its interesting you used the term temple. I was thinking about that very thing the other day, and it was one of several reasons I had decided to start the Spark program in the first place. The Shamans, Native American medicine men, Chinese Herbalists and even the Christians all believe that the body is the sacred vessel that contains the spirit, or vital essence of a person, and some the seat of the God itself. So the nature of eating, working out, exercising a healthy lifestyle, is more then just making ourselves look better and feel more healthy. We are honoring the God or Goddess with our bodies, honoring the spirits who help us, and finally honoring ourselves. For me it was the constant dishonor of my self that lead down the path to my issues with my weight in the first place. So I guess you can almost say that eating, and exercise, IS a physical act of worship. The sacrafice of wight as a gift to the God or Goddess, or honor the helping spirits that guide us. What better way to accomplish such a thing but in a temple. =) Bethie you rock!

Concentration rooted in intention through the transfer of energy, communications, healing and sacrifice, are the cornerstones of all magic and the building blocks of all change.

Given to me by a close friend of mine.
MISS_BETH12's Photo MISS_BETH12 Posts: 3,982
10/11/09 9:02 P

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I find this to be a very interesting topic!

I have to admit, I never thought of it this way. I think it makes sense; if your physical self is healthy, so will your spiritual self. I mean our bodies are our temples, are they not? I think it's hard to be balanced if you are taking care of one and not the other.

Very interesting! I look forward to more replies!

Edited by: MISS_BETH12 at: 10/11/2009 (21:02)
"Fall 7 times, get up 8." ~Chinese Proverb


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JEWITCH's Photo JEWITCH Posts: 18,863
10/11/09 12:34 P

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I think the Shamans of old were more in touch with the Spirit/Body connection, in fact, I think we as people were more in tune to that connection than were are now. I agree with you that that balance is very important. I think our physical body needs to be in balance so that our spiritual being is able to maintain its balance.



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OLGRIMSFATE's Photo OLGRIMSFATE Posts: 26
10/11/09 10:54 A

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Shamanism looks at our bodies and our spirits as a partnership in balance. Even though one is physical and the other is spiritual, it is important to realize that if one part is out of balance it affects the other. Most of the time a shaman will heal a physical problem by fixing an imbalance on a spiritual level. But lately ive been wondering if Shamans of late have been ignoring physical problems and there effect on the spirit not the other way around. Ive spent many years focusing on spiritual health, and using that as a means to fix my physical body. But maybe ive been wrong. Maybe my body is out of balance and it is affecting my spirit. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. What do you think?


Concentration rooted in intention through the transfer of energy, communications, healing and sacrifice, are the cornerstones of all magic and the building blocks of all change.

Given to me by a close friend of mine.
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