Author: Sorting Last Post on Top ↓ Message:
JHOLLNAGEL Posts: 1,768
3/7/11 9:21 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Wongerchi

Yes I would agree that most of us push harder on the pedals when climbing ..... but is that the real way to climb hills? If you watch a race they are spinning no differently then they would be on a flat part of the course. Thus, my belief of a smooth and fluid pedal stroke.

I do agree with your comment on the rollers and dirt as well with sand. I think a full off season on rollers will most definitely refine your pedal stroke and efficiency. Cyclo cross racing has taught me this as well. I naturally learned a lot of my bike handing skills in one season through the school of hard knocks through racing;-) LOL

 current weight: 229.0 
 
238
226
214
202
190
DDOORN's Photo DDOORN Posts: 23,803
3/6/11 2:29 P

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Yep, I'm usually of the plain and simple approach also...I guess I shouldn't have been, but was so surprised over how much analysis and thought can go into such a seemingly simple task as to just getting over that hill! :-) I'm guessing it's the racing type that might want to go to such extremes, although I shared this with a fellow member of our local cycling club and he vouched that he followed much of what the article suggests and found it helpful during his cross country tour back in 1999.

Don

Co-Team Leader for All Health Pros, Binghamton Area Losers & Laid Off But Staying Strong SparkTeams

Don't die with your music still in you. -- Dr. Wayne Dyer

"We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same." --- Carlos Castaneda

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." --- Buddha

rules4humans.com


 Pounds lost: 112.3 
 
0
30
60
90
120
NEEDTOBE145's Photo NEEDTOBE145 SparkPoints: (0)
Fitness Minutes: (4,865)
Posts: 305
3/6/11 1:36 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Thanks for the advice. I just ride for pleasure but I look for exercises to help me ride. I will be careful after reading your comment!

Great advice for any sport I think.

 Pounds lost: 7.0 
 
0
7.75
15.5
23.25
31
SARACYCLE's Photo SARACYCLE Posts: 329
3/5/11 2:09 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
I use the hills as my trainers and stomp on the pedals, keeping focused on my objective, to get up and over that hill, so I can ride down the other side. Crazy as it may sound, it works for me!

Sarah


 Pounds lost: 45.0 
 
0
20
40
60
80
WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
3/5/11 12:48 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
JHOLLNAGEL:
The reason why I'm so touchy about this is because I have been in trouble with some of the mods on other forums for trying to get folk to think about why, exactly, the sacred cow is sacred.

I actually think you don't pull up more on a hill climb, even if you are overgeared. What does happen is that you push down harder. Try it on a hill sometime and see...

Your logic doesn't track in the paragraph about me either - if I am such an all-around cyclist and don't need to do the drills, then surely the easiest way to get stroke proficiency is to actually BE an all-around cyclist? Actually, I think this is the right way to go - rollers in the winter, and riding in the dirt will give you all the feedback on your pedal stroke you will ever need.

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


 current weight: 190.0 
 
210
202.5
195
187.5
180
SARACYCLE's Photo SARACYCLE Posts: 329
3/2/11 11:14 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
I realized something about pedaling, after reading this. I don't even think about it, when I'm on the bike, as I just do it! Right now, my only thoughts are should I go clip less on the mountain bike, as I'm not quite there yet, if I can't jump out of them fast enough, when I come to a screeching halt. Plus, I don't really want to careen over the side, if I'm clipped in.
And when riding the road bike....oh, who cares.....just pedal like a banshee up hills and ride the crest of the wave downhill.

Sarah


 Pounds lost: 45.0 
 
0
20
40
60
80
GIANT-STEPS SparkPoints: (65,379)
Fitness Minutes: (439)
Posts: 3,641
3/2/11 5:18 P

Send Private Message
Reply
People do not always do what they think they do and athletes are as superstitious a lot as any group. They are so anxious to find a competitive edge that they are attracted to anything that sounds like it may help them. When I was a pup people talked up a technique called ankling. The idea was to use the ankle to lengthen your stroke. You would push the ball of your foot down on the down stroke and pull it back up on the upstroke. Even owners manuals of many bicycles had a section about ankling as if it was a magical technique that will transform any new bike owner into a serious athlete. Problem was that no real cyclists did this. Riders who attempted too much sometimes injured themselves to the extent that they could no longer ride. Whenever I hear someone suggesting I do an exercise that feels unnatural (and pedaling with one leg falls into this category) I get suspicious. I don't care how many experts recommend something, if it doesn't feel right I don't do it.
There are only two things I have ever done to improve my pedaling technique. Riding rollers and riding a track bike. A jerky pedal stroke on either one will be immediately obvious. When you can ride smoothly on rollers and on a track bike you have good pedaling technique.

KITTY1970's Photo KITTY1970 Posts: 5,005
3/2/11 12:40 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
emoticon emoticon

Every time I rely on Jesus He never lets me down.
Faith + grace = salvation


 October Minutes: 0
 
0
150
300
450
600
TIKATIK's Photo TIKATIK SparkPoints: (0)
Fitness Minutes: (822)
Posts: 32
3/1/11 10:01 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
It depends on the author, or cycling legend, etc., as to what they will tell you is best. I have also seen differing results from different studies. Ned Overend, mountain biking legend, believes in the pedaling in circles method. He was a god on the trails. Others tell you differently. I say go with whatever gives you the best time in a time trial and call it good, or go with whatever you feel more comfortable doing. Keep it fun!

 current weight: 224.2 
 
231
218.25
205.5
192.75
180
JHOLLNAGEL Posts: 1,768
3/1/11 3:57 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Wongerchi

I understand what you are saying and agree. However, I still contend that you slightly pull up without even thinking about it to assist the stroke to be more smooth. I still contend that this is more exaggerated during a hill climb.

I am not offended by your comments and nor am I trying to attack you personally. Friel is a well known author and cyclist trainer ... he is not the first author that I have read that has said the same thing as the article suggests.

Since you are a more seasoned and multiple discipline cyclist: Cross, TT, Crit you may not have to do these drills because you are already very proficient in your stroke.

I also realize that Friel and other authors recommend exercises for the hip flexor muscle in a strength training regime. I am assuming for this very reason that you stated of the hip flexor being a weak a muscle to begin with? So with strength training for this action perhaps the stroke method being suggest can become more procifient thus creating a higher cadence without bouncing in the saddle?

 current weight: 229.0 
 
238
226
214
202
190
WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
3/1/11 3:26 P

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
If you look at the force plot in the article (I have the PDF, just PM me your email and I'll send it), there is very little "pull up" done by the leg that's coming from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock. Because cranks are a coupled mechanism, the "push down" stroke from one leg effectively "pulls up" the other one.

In fact, actively pulling up means that you have to engage your hip flexors to initiate the pull up from bottom dead center (6 o'clock position). Hip flexors are designed to operate in a very limited range of motion (basically, they work to pick your foot up off the ground when you walk) and are very weak as a result. Especially compared with your quads, and you can go test this yourself. Next time you're in the weight room do a 1RM on your quads and then hip flexors and see what sort of differential you get.

The other interesting thing that comes out of the fact that a crank is simply two arms travelling in a circle is that the concept of "pedaling in circles" doesn't apply. Your feet (and because your legs are connected to them, your legs) are already travelling in perfect circles. So why force extra muscle recruitment when you don't have to? There is a significant energy cost in recruiting additional muscles in the pedal stroke.


Just in case anyone has the wrong idea, the reason why I'm doing this is to get everyone to think about what they are reading. Ask yourself why you are doing something and how will it benefit my cycling?

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


 current weight: 190.0 
 
210
202.5
195
187.5
180
JHOLLNAGEL Posts: 1,768
3/1/11 11:08 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Wongerchi

Most people just pedal on the down stroke. This article explains that this is in efficient. You want yur pedal stroke to be fluid throughout the whole rotation. Pushing with one while puling with the other. Hence no dead zone and no overdeveloping one leg over the other. The article is meant to provide work outs to be more efficient.

Yes I would agree that the stronger the rider the harder the push down. But the pedaling technique is more than just a push down with each foot. If you did just that you would start bouncing in the saddle at a much lower cadence. Most riders subconsciously probably pull up and push down at the same time without realizing it. This is more exaggerated probably during hill climbs.

The article is providing drills to overcome the bouncing at a lower cadence; thus increase our rpms and when we can do this in a smaller gear thus our speed is much faster as well.

Just my two cents worth at explaining;-)

 current weight: 229.0 
 
238
226
214
202
190
GLADGAD's Photo GLADGAD Posts: 5,608
3/1/11 10:46 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Thanks, Don. I save this. I am (again) in the base part of training.

-Carolyn

"God gave you your body as a gift, so you should take care of it." - My Mom
WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
3/1/11 9:33 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
So explain to me why you need to "improve" pedaling technique when it is well known that the stronger the rider, the harder they push down?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1997818

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


 current weight: 190.0 
 
210
202.5
195
187.5
180
SARACYCLE's Photo SARACYCLE Posts: 329
3/1/11 9:08 A

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Thanks Don for sharing this. I posted it for friends who have trainers. And it looks like I'll take my bike out and try all but the one where you put your foot on a chair (that would be way to wild to try outside)!

Sarah


 Pounds lost: 45.0 
 
0
20
40
60
80
DDOORN's Photo DDOORN Posts: 23,803
3/1/11 8:30 A

Community Team Member

My SparkPage
Send Private Message
Reply
Drills To Improve Your Pedaling Technique

syracusebicycle.com/training/coachin
g-
corner/drills-to-improve-your-pedaliR>ng-technique/


Wow...! There's a LOT more to pedaling than I thought!

Interesting read...!

Don

Co-Team Leader for All Health Pros, Binghamton Area Losers & Laid Off But Staying Strong SparkTeams

Don't die with your music still in you. -- Dr. Wayne Dyer

"We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same." --- Carlos Castaneda

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." --- Buddha

rules4humans.com


 Pounds lost: 112.3 
 
0
30
60
90
120
Page: 1 of (1)  

Report Innappropriate Post

Other Cycling - Road, Mountain, Fun, Racing General Team Discussion Forum Posts


Thread URL: http://www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/team_messageboard_thread.asp?board=0x1670x40248811

Review our Community Guidelines