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WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
10/9/09 11:49 A

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SHANE:
The trick to the trainer is to have your workout planned in advance, get on, do it, and get off. It's not time in the saddle so much it's what you do with the time that matters.

That, and a big a$$ fan.

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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SHANECODER's Photo SHANECODER SparkPoints: (21,967)
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10/9/09 11:23 A

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That is a great idea! I have a 10 mile loop I do when REALLY short on time. The roads are well maintained in the winter. I can stand to be a little cold for 1/2 hour if I get a chance to warm up. The "warm-up" on the trainer could really extend my outdoor riding season.

During most of January, I'm stuck inside. I guess I need to improve my attitude about the trainer!

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GIANT-STEPS SparkPoints: (65,379)
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10/9/09 11:15 A

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Luckily I live someplace with usually mild winter because I hate riding on trainers. I do it sometimes because it is my only choice but in my book the best day on the trainer doesn't hold a candle to my worst day on the road.

I found one great use for trainers, getting warm. When it was really cold outside sometimes I'd ride 20 miles in the cold. Then come in and ride the trainer until I'm getting nice and warm but not sweating yet. Then I'd go out and ride another 20. This greatly extended my comfort zone when it is cold.

SHANECODER's Photo SHANECODER SparkPoints: (21,967)
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10/9/09 11:12 A

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Thanks WONGERCHI

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WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
10/9/09 10:39 A

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Shane:
The trainer is your friend. Especially here where the roads are snowbound in winter...

In fact, after this weekend the roadbike is going to get cleaned up, overhauled and then stuck on the trainer for the winter. This time of year, it's dark when I get home and riding outside in the fall is what cross bikes were designed for!

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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SHANECODER's Photo SHANECODER SparkPoints: (21,967)
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10/5/09 12:39 P

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Thanks WONGERCHI!

I'm hoping to spend more time on the trainer this winter. Last year I had a goal to ride on the trainer 2x a week. I rode on it twice all winter :(

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WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
10/5/09 10:37 A

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Shane:
I have one of these:

www.cycle-ops.com/p-118-fluid.aspx

I hate riding easy on the trainer. My indoor workouts are predominantly high(er) intensity this time of year. My "easier" rides are done on rollers but this is still high LSD/low tempo watts. However, if I'm not feeling it I will bail out and spin easy with the TV on though.

It is a slightly bass-ackwards way of training but my trainer limit is about 1:30 so doing long classical base-building rides is a no-go. What I like to do is work on technique and threshold during the winter and then use the initial spring rides to collect miles.

I change position every 10-15 minutes, get up out of the saddle, stretch, etc to relieve pressure. Sometimes I'll build in some standing low-cadence stuff just to relieve the contact points and to alleviate trainer boredom.

Definitely get the biggest, baddest fan you can afford or can put up with. Remember indoors you've not got that 20mph headwind to cool you off, so you need the big air movers. I invested in an industrial fan last winter and it was so much easier.

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


 current weight: 190.0 
 
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SHANECODER's Photo SHANECODER SparkPoints: (21,967)
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10/3/09 3:43 P

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Thanks for all your input!

I know being lighter will make me faster. I've already dropped 20lbs this year. I'm going to be about 190lbs at the end of the year.

WONGERCHI, what type of trainer are you on when inside? I have a trainer that holds the bike upright. The front tire sits in a big plastic holder. The problem is, it's hard on the saddle contact points! Any advice for inside training is greatly appreciated.

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10/3/09 1:28 A

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My race team trained together all week. We did our recovery rides together, our intervals, our LSD rides, and our hill work together. I tend to think this is why our team was so successful for our size. Our team only had 10 active racers but we placed as much in races as teams many times our size.

Edited by: GIANT-STEPS at: 10/3/2009 (01:31)
WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
10/2/09 2:41 P

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The hard group ride is awesome (and is a once-a-week staple of my summer training) but what do you do the other 6 days a week?

I guess it really boils down to what sort of speed the OP wants. If it's speed for crit or CX racing then racing or the hard group ride is the way forward. If it's TT then a good an ol' fashioned 10 mile TT every week is the key.

Oh, I forgot my most important workout of the week...

Recovery ride. 45-60' TOPS. Very easy spin, if you're sweating or breathing hard you're going too hard. People on beach cruisers should be able to pass you easily. Awesome day-after-race or day-after-hard ride workout.

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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JHOLLNAGEL Posts: 1,768
10/2/09 10:50 A

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Giant

Funny you should mention this. On our Wed Night Group ride we have a bunch of Pro-Racers and then 20-22 mph; 17-19 mph; 15-17 mph; and then the rest.

The grps of 20-22 & 17-19 mph try and hang on for dear life when the Pros start kicking it. We all try and hang until we no longer can breathe or pedal. The 20-22 mph then re-group and pace line the rest of the ride (of which for the last 2-3 Weds. I have managed to either stay with or bridged them;-p) and then 17-19 mph try and bridge the 20-22 mph.

So yur advice of riding with a group faster than you and hang on for dear life as long as you can works.

I went from a year ago last April of avg speeds between 14-16 to now second year of avg speeds 19-22 mph. So it does work .... sometimes it is frustrating but very humbling every week. It shows me I have a long way to go yet. Of course I should mention that I will be turning 48 this month and these Pros range from early 20's to mid 30's;-)

Jim

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JHOLLNAGEL Posts: 1,768
10/2/09 10:50 A

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Giant

Funny you should mention this. On our Wed Night Group ride we have a bunch of Pro-Racers and then 20-22 mph; 17-19 mph; 15-17 mph; and then the rest.

The grps of 20-22 & 17-19 mph try and hang on for dear life when the Pros start kicking it. We all try and hang until we no longer can breathe or pedal. The 20-22 mph then re-group and pace line the rest of the ride (of which for the last 2-3 Weds. I have managed to either stay with or bridged them;-p) and then 17-19 mph try and bridge the 20-22 mph.

So yur advice of riding with a group faster than you and hang on for dear life as long as you can works.

I went from a year ago last April of avg speeds between 14-16 to now second year of avg speeds 19-22 mph. So it does work .... sometimes it is frustrating but very humbling every week. It shows me I have a long way to go yet. Of course I should mention that I will be turning 48 this month and these Pros range from early 20's to mid 30's;-)

Jim

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GIANT-STEPS SparkPoints: (65,379)
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10/2/09 12:42 A

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The best way I found to get faster is to ride with a group that will challenge you. Ride with a group of stronger riders than try to stay on like your life depends on it.

Naturally building a good base fitness with LSD and building anaerobic capacity and ability to recover with intervals will make you faster but nothing builds mental toughness than to get beat up on by faster cyclists.

WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
10/1/09 12:02 P

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Shane:
This is a timely thread as I'm cooking up my winter training schedule, but the answer's pretty simple. To get fast, you have to ride fast. Big miles at a slow pace only gets you good at riding slow. Less miles at a faster pace, however, now you're talking!

I'm a duathlete (so I know a little bit about running too) and you can apply the concept of tempo runs and intervals to cycling. The problem is that in our world, cycling speed is far more variable than running pace. An easy run for me is around 5:45/k and I can hold that pretty much in any conditions. On the other hand, an easy ride for me is 30kph on the flat with no wind, or 15kph on the flat with a wind! So if I were to go by speed only, it would look like I've not improved with the headwind...

So first off you need some objective measure of effort unless your RPE is very well calibrated The simplest solution is measuring speed with an indoor trainer. You now can use speed as a proxy for effort indoors as you've now removed all the factors that affect the ride - stoplights, cars, wind, hills etc.

If you're serious about getting faster, I'd recommend the trainer and using it year-round. I do all my hard intervals on mine, even in summer. OK, it is deathly dull, but you get more bang-for-the-buck on your speedwork days too - an hour workout, no mess, no fuss.

Some workouts I like:

1) Straightforward tempo workout (outdoors, or indoors on rollers). After 15' WU, ride at an "irritatingly hard" pace. Conversation should be single words.

2) Threshold Intervals. These are like "Cruise Intervals" in running. My standard set is 2x 20' @ 60' TT intensity with 5' recoveries. This is my staple speed workout, I try and get in one per week. In winter I'll do these 2x a week with one workout building to 1x60' and the other staying at 2x20 (or building to 3x20 this year). If you're doing these right, the first set should feel pretty straightforward but hard towards the end, the second set should be hard from about 5' in. Conversation not possible.

3) "VO2Max" intervals. 5x5' all-out. I do these when I'm building up to something or just fancy a change from 2x20. I "roll into" the interval and try and build. Stop if you see significant speed drops during subsequent intervals.

IMO, increasing strength in the gym is a bit of a waste of time if you're doing it to get faster. The amount of force that you need to push down on the pedals is significantly less than you'd ever need simply getting out of a chair - in fact, it's very rare that you get a cyclist/runner who is truly strength limited. Don't get me wrong though, doing ST for all-round muscle balance and injury prevention is definitely the way forward in life.



EDITED to add:
Losing some weight helps too...

Edited by: WONGERCHI at: 10/1/2009 (12:02)
In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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BEVPRESLEY's Photo BEVPRESLEY SparkPoints: (131,792)
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10/1/09 9:08 A

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Yup, drop the weight, do intervals, do the climbs, do some leg strength training in the gym. Before long you will be flying.

beverly

One Day at a Time:
1) 10,000 steps daily
2) fruit & vegie at every meal and log
3) aerobic or strength train every day
4) 7 hours sleep daily
5) check in with SP daily

My resolutions for Nov are
1) track nutrition daily
2) 30 min of exercise daily
3) finish cleaning sewing room


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BILL60's Photo BILL60 Posts: 370,009
10/1/09 6:57 A

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Shane:
If you want speed, if you want to climb, if you want to better your time, the most important part is your engine. Drop some weight and you'll see some great results. Everything else is secondary. Good luck!!

Bill

"Excellence is but for the few."


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SWEETCYCLINHAMS's Photo SWEETCYCLINHAMS Posts: 1,249
9/30/09 9:56 P

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Hey, Shane.

What's worked best for me is walking lunges, 3 sets of 20 reps each, with the 60-70lb dumbbells (go as heavy as you can without sacrificing form), each time I go to the gym, regardless of what I'm working upper body.

I follow up with about 23 grams of whey protein, each time I eat (not exceeding 40 grams every 2 hours) for at least 2 days afterward, to build back what I've torn down.

Before the accident, I went from 15.9 mph average over 20 miles to 18.5 mph average over 50 miles per ride, non-stop. I'm in the recuperating phase now, so it's pretty much back to square one for me, following my reliable regimen. Maybe itíll work for you, too.

Take care and ride safe!

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SHANECODER's Photo SHANECODER SparkPoints: (21,967)
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9/30/09 9:20 P

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Anyone have some good advice on speed training. I've ridden a lot this season. Just rode my big bike ride of the season. Now I would like to work on increasing speed. I'm cutting way back on mileage, so I'm not too worried about any injuries.

In running, we use tempo runs and intervals. As I read about biking, there is a lot of conflicting advice. I'm more interested in your personal experience than links. Of course, links to training you have used and liked would be AWESOME!

Edited by: SHANECODER at: 9/30/2009 (21:22)
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