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WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
7/14/09 12:36 P

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John:
I've been doing the Pledge thing for ages. After all, "a clean bike is a happy bike." And a happy bike is a FAST bike!

emoticon

Edited by: WONGERCHI at: 7/14/2009 (12:36)
In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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JOPAPGH's Photo JOPAPGH Posts: 4,066
7/13/09 8:16 P

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"polish the bike with Pledge"

Now that is love emoticon

"John" or "JoPa" if John only makes things confusing.
Pittsburgh, PA

Personal Bests:
* 5K. May 31, 2014 - Stride for Pride 5K. 21:37
* 10 mi. June 16, 2012 - Baltimore 10 Miler. 1:23:12
* HM. June 7, 2014 - Deckers Creek. 1:41:05
* Marathon. October 19, 2014 - Columbus, OH. 3:45:56



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WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
7/13/09 1:18 P

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FLOWINGWATER:
This is an easy fix - you have a bit of cable slop in the system which needs to be corrected with the barrel adjuster. There's a little knob at the end of the cable at the point where it goes into the rear derailleur - if you are having trouble hitting the gear from the next cog up, then turn it a quarter turn away from the bike and try again. If there's still a hitch in shifting, then turn it another quarter turn. Test the shifting in both directions and if you're having trouble shifting the other way, then turn the knob towards the bike. That should also cure your "clicking" gears.

It's unlikely to be chain/cassette wear. It's wise to change chains every year, though this depends on your mileage. I change chains every year.

Chain lubing:
I lube after ever ride in the wet. After a wet ride, clean the chain, dry off the bike, then dry off chain with a rag. Then add 1 drop of lube to every link, wait a couple of minutes, shift through all the gears, then wipe off the excess with another rag. Takes 10-15 minutes depending on whether I polish the bike with Pledge or not.

If the bike's gritty, then I give it a full wash. I do this so often that I can do a bike in 15-20 minutes.

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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GIANT-STEPS SparkPoints: (65,379)
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7/13/09 12:58 P

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Equipment has been getting less durable as more cogs are squeezed onto our clusters. When "ten speeds" had a double in front and 5 cogs in back drivetrains lasted a loooooong time. Narrow chains like the Sedisport allowed 6 cogs to be put in the space of 5 or 7 in the space of 6 but the way Sedis made the chain narrower was to simplify the link design; it was a strong and good shifting chain but it didn't last nearly as long as the older design. One good thing about Sedisport chains is that they were cheap; cyclists replaced them frequently; sometimes simply because the chain was especially dirty. Back then I replaced my chain every 1,000 miles which in the Summer was about once/month.

Going to 8 cogs wasn't as bad because manufacturers widened the rear hub rather than narrowing the cogs and chain. Putting 9 cogs in the same space required narrower cogs and chains. These were more expensive and less durable than their predecessors. Soon 9 was obsoleted by 10 and now as many as 11 cogs can be shoehorned in the same space that once held 8. Each increment increasing costs and reducing durability.

I believe we have past the point of diminishing returns for adding cogs in the back. Back when bikes only had 5 cogs adding another was a Godsend. We could add another lower or higher gear or narrow the gaps between them. Going from 6 to 7 was also quite nice. By the time we got to 8 most riders I know no longer bothered to change clusters for different rides because 8 was enough for them to have gears for almost any condition. 9 speeds already seemed like guilding the Lily but the industry just didn't know when to stop.

Back when I worked in bike shops I stockpiled a lot of 7 speed friction freewheels and extra cogs. When my supply of these parts got low I kept myself in freewheels a little longer thanks to Ebay but I finally relented and upgraded to 9 speed index. Now that 11 is state of the art I should probably start hoarding 9 speed clusters and cogs before they become hard to find.

1,400 miles isn't very long for a cluster to last but if you got a lot of sand or other abrasive into the chain it is certainly possible to wear everything out this fast. If your chain is skipping chances are your chain and cogs are worn out. If only certain cogs are worn it may be possible to just replace those specific cogs and the chain. Note that some models of clusters are riveted together making replacement of individual cogs impossible.

How well you care for your drivetrain will have a large effect on its longevity. If you get in the habit of thoroughly cleaning your chain frequently you will get more service from your drivetrain. Thorough clenaing involves removing the chain and soaking in solvent and scrubbing with a wire brush. The clip on gizmos do not do a very good job cleaning your chain.

MAGELLAN1's Photo MAGELLAN1 Posts: 550
7/13/09 7:19 A

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i would take it back to the shop that changed it and let them adjust it for you. since they just replaced it for you i would think it would be no charge.

my boyfriend tells me the third ring on the cassesette is the ring that most people use most often, and that is then ring that is most likely to wear out first. when thats worn you have to replace the whole thing.

in the future, you need to lube the chain after each time you ride in the rain, for you this may mean every day some seasons. wipe it with a rag first, then lube.





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RICK53403's Photo RICK53403 Posts: 662
7/12/09 11:25 P

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I'm not an expert by any sense of the word but it does sound like some adjusting. If the problem goes away if you shift into that gear from below but regularly appears when shifting in from above, there appears to be an alignment issue. Just my opinion though.

Good luck and I wish I could ride a lot more but a 25 mile commute each way is a bit much.

2012 Goals:
1. Run 800 miles
6/9/12 - 162 mi

2. Walk 300 miles
6/9/12 - 124 mi

3. Ride 1,900 miles between the trainer and actual road work
6/9/12
326 miles Trainer
522 miles Road

4. Run the 10 mile Lighthouse Run in less than 90'

5. Get my 5K time to less than 25'

6. Complete at least 1 century bicycle ride

7. Complete at least 1 Pull-up
Managed 2 in March


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FLOWINGWATER's Photo FLOWINGWATER SparkPoints: (39,430)
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7/12/09 9:40 P

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Thanks again for the replies. I'm learning a lot!

To answer questions:

The chain skipped whenever I switched down into the third ring on the back. If I switched down another gear and back up, it was fine, then. It didn't matter how much force I was putting on pedals.

Regarding whether I got caught in the rain once or twice: I live in Western Washington. In the fall and winter, it's not about getting "caught" once or twice - it's a regular thing to ride in the rain...LOL! So, yeah, I have ridden in the rain, mud, slush, leftover gravel/grit from treating icy roads - regularly.

I already had the chain and cassette replaced. It was one of those things. The bike was in the shop, and I needed it to ride home. So, I had it replaced, but I'm doubting whether it needed it. They did give me the old chain and cassette, so I'm thinking of taking those into another bike shop to get their opinion on whether it needed to be replaced.

It seems like the gears still aren't quite "right", even with the new chain and cassette. That third ring on the back is still a bit dodgey. Plus, now it seems to make a "clicking" sound whenever I ride - in whatever gear. So it may still need some adjusting.

I'm maintaining my loss! Maintenance range: 117-122.

“Life is full of beauty. Notice it. Notice the bumble bee, the small child, and the smiling faces. Smell the rain, and feel the wind. Live your life to the fullest potential, and fight for your dreams.”


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TRAILTRIPPER's Photo TRAILTRIPPER SparkPoints: (17,057)
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7/12/09 8:00 P

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Hi,
I am thinking that you may just have to tweak the alignment of the rear derailuar. Yes, clean and lube as mentioned from others.
There is are 2 set screws on the derailuar. Have some one hold it up and go through the gears. Adjust as needed.
Unfortunately you may be right about them recouping monies from the agreement you purchased with the bike. If you go in unsure some LBC will use that to sell something. However, in all my years of dealing with bike shops (I am female which sometimes makes a difference)they are always changing. You will probably find that you will leave and go back over the years depending on who they have on there staff.


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MAGELLAN1's Photo MAGELLAN1 Posts: 550
7/12/09 7:36 P

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if you have been riding to work and perhaps got caught in the rain a few times, didnt lube, you could need a new chain. if your chain is bad, i could cause your cassette and chain rings to wear. it is feasable that you could use new parts. if you get low end parts, it could cost less than 100 in parts to replace the whole drivetrain, plus what ever labor costs.
if you dont feel comfortable with the bikeshop that you bought the bike at you can take it somewhere else and have it looked at for a second opinion. But it is very possible that there are being honest.



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SCOTTCR1's Photo SCOTTCR1 Posts: 103
7/12/09 6:59 P

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Flowing,
Cleaning the chain is a great habit - probably doesn't solve too many "problems" aside from prolonging the life of your chain/drivetrain... but 1400 miles is equivalent to a teenager in bike drivetrain years :) Grab a rag, apply lubricant (or degreaser solvant/paint thinner if you have some), spin the pedals backwards several dozen times, then take the rag and grip the chain with it while again spinning backwards. The rag will get black and nasty quick.

Next, apply lubricant by squeezing the bottle while pedaling (with your hand again) backwards. You can wipe it with the rag again but not too much.

For the lubricant type, I like either a brand called "White Lightning" or Extra-Dry Lube. Say far, far away from something called "Pedros Ice Wax". WD-40 is ok if it is an emergency, but it is not something you should use regularly.

So.. the big question is... does the chain "skip" ONLY when you output lots of power (standing on the pedals) or can it happen at other times. If it happens at other times, I would say you need a simple deraileur adjustment... takes 12.3 seconds, cost = Free to $2 :)

PS.. love the name of your bike :) I hope to do one very long ride to Vienna (and maybe back) this season. It's one of my favorite livable cities.

Edited by: SCOTTCR1 at: 7/12/2009 (19:02)
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FLOWINGWATER's Photo FLOWINGWATER SparkPoints: (39,430)
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7/12/09 6:39 P

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Thanks for the replies!

My bike is a Specialized Vienna 3, the shifters/derailleur are Shimano Alivio. (I hope that's the info you were looking for.)

I bought a $150 "lifetime service" with my bike at the bike shop. I'm getting the feeling that they're making money by saying I need parts when I don't. (I hate that!!)

I'm not mechanically inclined AT ALL! Plus, I've been taking it into the shop for maintenance, since that's what I paid for. I guess I've been taking it in about every 3 months, and I do about 160 miles a month, so no, I haven't been cleaning/lubing the chain often enough. emoticon Bad me! I'll figure out how to do that, and do it more often. Is there a special spray/lube-something that I use? (Sorry, I really am clueless. Before a year ago, I didn't ride at all.)

One other thing to note is that I ride all year long, in all types of weather. I don't know if that makes a difference...

Edited by: FLOWINGWATER at: 7/12/2009 (18:39)
I'm maintaining my loss! Maintenance range: 117-122.

“Life is full of beauty. Notice it. Notice the bumble bee, the small child, and the smiling faces. Smell the rain, and feel the wind. Live your life to the fullest potential, and fight for your dreams.”


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MTNBIKENV's Photo MTNBIKENV SparkPoints: (0)
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7/12/09 6:37 P

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I REALLY doubt it. I would get a second opinion. It just may need a tuneup.

Marnie
RENO, NEVADA

A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for.

PERRYR's Photo PERRYR Posts: 670
7/12/09 6:22 P

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I sincerely doubt that your chain and/or cassette are worn out at 1,400 miles.
Willing to bet that cable adjustment is all it needs.
What kind of bike and shifters do you have?
Assuming that you don't have much experience at your own repairs; try tweaking the cable adjustment barrel for the rear derailleur one turn at at a time to see if that helps. If that gets it close, be patient, and tune it in by 1/2 turn or less until it shifts just right.
Now, this is a secret just between us, OK? Have you been cleaning and lubing the chain every 100 miles or so? If not, tsk, tsk ....A dirty, dry chain will cause all kinds of symptoms. Same with the derailleur pivot points and jockey wheels.
A clean, well maintained machine will be a happy machine.





SCOTTCR1's Photo SCOTTCR1 Posts: 103
7/12/09 5:33 P

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in 1400 miles? I doubt it. Although it does depend a little on the make/model. I can usually do around 6-7000 miles before things go pear-shaped. Of course, if I do 4000 miles and replace the chain, odds are that I'll have to replace the cassette too, otherwise you get "skipping" when you output lots of power (ie standing and cranking hard). The skipping is not "changing gears" but rather a jerking sensation and affiliated cracks and pops from the chain cassette.

Sometimes a poorly adjusted "B-Limit Screw" can fix the issue:
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto
.asp?id=64

If you are not the technical type... like heathcare, seeking a second opinion at another shop is often a good idea.

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FLOWINGWATER's Photo FLOWINGWATER SparkPoints: (39,430)
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7/12/09 5:24 P

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Hi all,

I'm fairly new to cycling. I started commuting to work on my bike a year ago.

In October 2008 I bought a new bike. Since then, I've put about 1400 miles on it. I started having problems with my bike not fully engaging in gears, and my bike shop told me I need a new chain and cassette. I'm just wondering, is this normal wear? Is it normal to have to replace the chain and cassette after about 1400 miles?

I'm maintaining my loss! Maintenance range: 117-122.

“Life is full of beauty. Notice it. Notice the bumble bee, the small child, and the smiling faces. Smell the rain, and feel the wind. Live your life to the fullest potential, and fight for your dreams.”


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