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JHOLLNAGEL Posts: 1,768
6/21/08 1:31 P

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W

I'm going to have to remember this when I decide to go the heart rate monitor route. I think or pretty much know that I'm going too hard on easy days and not nearly hard enough on hard days.

Jim

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REBCCA's Photo REBCCA SparkPoints: (256,492)
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6/20/08 2:14 P

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WONGERCHI, Awesome indeed, thank you so sincerely for taking the time to post this most appreciated information. I am also most interested in HR over speed or distance goals. emoticon


Edited by: REBCCA at: 6/20/2008 (14:12)
...where attention goes, energy flows...


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WMARKS's Photo WMARKS Posts: 77
6/20/08 12:22 P

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That was awesome, WONGERCHI. Thanks for all that info. I love all the technical talk.

I think I'll probably end up getting a new cateye at some point with HR/Cadence (Right now mine has neither function), as I don't really run at all.

Thanks again!

Hoya Saxa.


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DDBYRD's Photo DDBYRD Posts: 32
6/20/08 11:45 A

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Very interesting information.WONGERCHI

You have but one life to live, so live it well, love God, and leave a legacy.


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WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
6/20/08 11:25 A

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REBCCA:
Don't say I didn't warn you.... This is what I wrote on another thread which touched on HR zones - I've just cut and pasted from there:

The best way to set up your HR zones is to do a max HR test but that's damn hard work. I did mine for running and it took me a week to recover from it. It was informative to do once, but I don't think I'll do it again, thanks.

An easier way to get your zones is to do a Lactate Threshold test (from Friel's Training Bible, great read, BTW) - I do it every 6-8 weeks or so for both cycling and running and work out my zones from there. I like this method as it's reasonably easy to do, is a good workout in itself and doesn't take ages to recover from. Also, LT is very trainable so this will move up with time and your zones can be adjusted as necessary.

So how do you do this? First, make sure you're well rested. Then hop on the bike (road or trainer, I prefer doing this on the trainer as it's consistent everytime) and warm up well - 15 minutes. Then you're going to do a 30 minute all-out effort in a gear that you can maintain ~90RPM in for the duration. Your LT will be your average HR for the last 20 minutes of the time trial. Once you're done, cool down for 15 minutes.

So you've got your LT HR, this gives you top of Z4 - anything above this is totally anaerobic, and hurts like hell after a couple of minutes. To work out the other zones, here's what you do:

Top Z1 (Recovery zone): LTHR x 0.826
Top Z2 (Endurance): LTHR x 0.890
Top Z3 (Tempo pace): LTHR x 0.933
Top Z4 (LT intervals): LTHR x 0.99
Top Z5 (Anaerobic): LTHR x 1.093

Remember this is NOT max HR so the multiplication factors are different.

I never ride for distance or speed - HR is the key for me. This helps me to avoid the common mistake that people make by going too hard on their easy days and not hard enough on their hard days. An easy or long ride day should be Z1-2, no more. You will be shocked at how easy this is! I'm building in some tempo stuff (Z3) at the end of the long rides just to get used to riding hard with tired legs (this weekend it's 2:00 Z1-2 then 1:00 Z3). Intervals I do Z4-Z5 depending on the interval.

I'm a strong believer in getting your RPE figured out with HR as HR can be off for one reason or another (overtraining, fatigue, dehydration, heat etc). For me Z1-2 is conversational, Z3 is "irritatingly" hard, Z4 is a "don't talk to me" hard and Z5 is a "cough up a lung" hard. Interestingly, my breathing pattern changes with intensity too, so that's also a good guide.

Hope this helps!

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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WYLDMOONWOMAN's Photo WYLDMOONWOMAN Posts: 489
6/19/08 10:08 P

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I am a total hippie chick deadhead...I found a great steal your face jersey on team estrogen.com...I had to get the matching socks...I love them!

~Lisa~

I am bringing sexy back!

"Never had such a good time in my life before, I'd like to have it one time more...One good ride from start to end"
Grateful Dead



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6/19/08 9:58 P

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Thanks WyldMoonWoman,
I also noticed there was a 20% drop in calories burned when I upgraded to a really light road bike.
I am interested to know how your calorie burning changes as you lose weight. I smoke about a pack of cigarettes a day (American Spirits) but not while biking.
My man is a major huge Deadhead. I am a fan too. I am guessing from you steal youy face sock you are too.
Rock on!

Edited by: REBCCA at: 6/19/2008 (22:00)
...where attention goes, energy flows...


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WYLDMOONWOMAN's Photo WYLDMOONWOMAN Posts: 489
6/19/08 9:48 P

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You are on the skinnier side, Rebcca...my GF that gave me the monitor is 135 lbs and burns less calories that me...I am still really out of shape, 55 lbs overweight, recently quit smoking, and I know my body is working much harder than hers...I'll keep track and see if I burn less calories as I lose weight and increase my cardio endurance and report back!

~Lisa~

I am bringing sexy back!

"Never had such a good time in my life before, I'd like to have it one time more...One good ride from start to end"
Grateful Dead



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6/19/08 3:59 P

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Thank you for the great information WonderChi!

I have been bicycling 1 year today (minus 5 Winter months of no riding). Today's ride included at least 10 miles of uphill grade with another 3 miles of really steep grade and another 8 miles of gentle up and downs. I would love to see the detailed post on "getting your own zones set up". According to my HRM I was 'in my zone' for 100 minutes and burned 670 calories. It seems such a discrepancy from the other posters that it would be great to see the 'own zone' set-up.
TIA emoticon

...where attention goes, energy flows...


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WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
6/19/08 3:37 P

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Ah..... HRMs. A topic close to my "ahem" heart.... I have a Garmin Forerunner 301 (for running and duathlon) and a Garmin Edge 305 (for biking). If you can afford it, get one with a GPS system - totally invaluable for matching HR with terrain - especially if you're stuck in hill repeat hell like I am!

I train using HR (and RPE) pretty much exclusively. It's a great tool provided you get your zones set up right, which is the trick. None of the HR formulas out there work for me and they are most likely to be out for a significant fraction of the population too so getting your own zones set up is paramount. I wrote a detailed post about this somewhere but I can repost if need be.

Calorie burning:
I was interested in figuring out how Garmin calculated the cals burned so I emailed them and basically got a reply saying that it was proprietary info and couldn't tell me. Similar sort of thing with Polar too....

Anyway, I'm pretty confident with the cals burned for running as you're always doing work when you move your body through space. However, I'm of the opinion that the cycling one is overly generous, especially if you're doing lots of freewheeling/going downhill. I've watched the calorie counter zoom by as I'm coasting down a hill doing not a lot in the aero position at 40mph... I think it's pretty good if you're on a trainer though as you can't really stop pedalling!

GTOWNHOYAS09:
It all depends on what you want to do. I've been using my Forerunner for both running and biking - it has a GREAT handlebar mount which is really solid. I "upgraded" to the Edge because I wanted cadence and some way of recording speed and distance when I was training indoors. Winter training, my LT tests and hard power intervals are done indoors - the last two because I need consistency and my form always goes during the power interval sets....

If you don't want GPS then the price goes down quickly - I know Cateye now makes a great wireless speed/cadence/HR monitor for around $150. There are also a lot more bike computers out there - you pays your money and takes your choice.

If you're doing multisport then I'd get a wristwatch one with a chest strap. Make sure it can do HR zones for 2 different sports as the zones will be different! The equivalent zone for running is about 7-10bpm above the same zone for cycling.

HEALTHYGAL01:
I had no problems with my Edge setup apart from a dodgy battery in the sensor unit. Try changing that too if you can't get speed/cadence. For cadence, make sure that the cadence magnet is mounted correctly - it should pass close (no more than 5mm) to the sensor for an accurate reading. This was a bit of a fiddle for me, more so than the speed magnet.

Have you tried wetting the HR sensors on the HRM? That helps loads with the pickup. Occasionally I find I have to get the HRM close to the unit to get pairing but once I've done that it's OK.

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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HAPPY-DESTINY's Photo HAPPY-DESTINY Posts: 19,566
6/19/08 9:35 A

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DDBYRD: Yes..I did the same thing and it's pretty close!

"A man who wants something will find a way; a man who doesn't will find an excuse."

Stephan Dolley Jr.

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DDBYRD's Photo DDBYRD Posts: 32
6/19/08 9:30 A

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Thats the nice thing about the Polar F4, before you can even use it you need to program, your weight, age, gender, ect, ect.

I compared it to some web sites as far as min - max heart rates for my specific age, weight, & age and it is dead on.

You have but one life to live, so live it well, love God, and leave a legacy.


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HAPPY-DESTINY's Photo HAPPY-DESTINY Posts: 19,566
6/19/08 9:19 A

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Have you checked your moniter to see if it is set to your age/gender/weight?? I am 202pounds. I can bike for 75 minutes at 15 mph and burn 1241 k-cals. I go much faster than that...but not as long!

"A man who wants something will find a way; a man who doesn't will find an excuse."

Stephan Dolley Jr.

powerfulchoices.myambit.com/start-a-
business/energy-526


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DDBYRD's Photo DDBYRD Posts: 32
6/19/08 9:19 A

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I use the Polar F4 HRM. It is real nice. You enter your personal data and it determines your min - nax heart rate, calories burned, time duration, ect. I can swim with it, run, cycle, ect. It is fairly inexpensive. I also have a cyclocomputer on my road bike.

You have but one life to live, so live it well, love God, and leave a legacy.


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HEALTHYGAL01's Photo HEALTHYGAL01 Posts: 3,484
6/19/08 9:14 A

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I have to agree - bicycle computer with rpm,speed and distance is really useful for training. My old wired cateye was great. My heart rate always comes up to range when I am on the bike (but I do use my bottom of the line polar system at the gym). If it goes above my range I can feel it and know to cool off.

I replaced the cateye with an Edge 305 when it first came out. I haven't had good luck with the HR and cadence functions. Since I had a biking hiatus I am going to see about a new battery for the heart rate strap. I talked to someone at the Garmin store in Chicago and he said they rarely have cadence issues and that they would work with me to correct that.

My coach believes that we should use power meters for really good training monitors and for accurate calorie burning measurement. DH uses one in his tri training and race. In theory, we can move the system from bike to bike but I haven't tried that yet (I am still rebuilding bike strength and endurance)
Sara



"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." R.E.Lee
"She who laughs lasts" MaryPettibone Poole


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KJEANNE's Photo KJEANNE SparkPoints: (39,116)
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6/19/08 1:55 A

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GTOWNHOYAS09
How about getting both? You might be able to get a chest strap HRM and a wired computer that has cadence too. In fact, Polar makes a cyclocomputer with HRM. I dont know I its any good.

But if you want a fancier model, I suggest you go for the computer first and get one with cadence. You can use it to track your progress. The HRM would be second.


Do not look where you fell, but where you slipped.
African proverb


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REBCCA's Photo REBCCA SparkPoints: (256,492)
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6/18/08 10:38 P

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WYLDMOONWOMAN, wow you must ride like the wind.
I have worn a HRM for years and never burn that many calories in 2 hours of riding up and down hilly trail. I think a HRM is one of my favorite ways to be motivated along with accurate information for tracking.

Enjoy! emoticon

Edited by: REBCCA at: 6/18/2008 (22:36)
...where attention goes, energy flows...


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WYLDMOONWOMAN's Photo WYLDMOONWOMAN Posts: 489
6/18/08 9:15 P

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I don't know much about the heart rate monitor vs. a cycle computer, but I would have to say that I can use this everywhere, at the gym, jogging, etc...not just on a bike, so it has more practical application.

On a side note, I have to be careful to not eat up all my burned calories now that I know what I am burning

~Lisa~

I am bringing sexy back!

"Never had such a good time in my life before, I'd like to have it one time more...One good ride from start to end"
Grateful Dead



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WMARKS's Photo WMARKS Posts: 77
6/18/08 9:10 P

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So what's the better investment: getting a wrist heart rate monitor or saving up and getting the cyclocomputer with wireless?

I'm not so lucky to get a free one!

Hoya Saxa.


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WYLDMOONWOMAN's Photo WYLDMOONWOMAN Posts: 489
6/18/08 8:36 P

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she got a really nice one, all she has to do is walk into the room with her computer and it has like a blue tooth in it, so she does nothing to get her reports...I am very lucky to have such a good friend

~Lisa~

I am bringing sexy back!

"Never had such a good time in my life before, I'd like to have it one time more...One good ride from start to end"
Grateful Dead



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PLAYINGOUTDOORS's Photo PLAYINGOUTDOORS SparkPoints: (12,881)
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6/18/08 8:29 P

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Lucky you at getting a FREE HRM!! And for burning 1186! Whew! You're right...no wonder we get hungry after a ride!

I have a HRM, but I always forget to put it on! I need to put it with my helmet so I remember to wear it.

emoticon

-------- __~@
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(`v)
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Playing Outdoors
WYLDMOONWOMAN's Photo WYLDMOONWOMAN Posts: 489
6/18/08 7:51 P

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A friend of mine gave me her old heart rate monitor and I used it today..I rode my bike hard for 75 minutes and burned 1186 calories!

No wonder I am always starving the day after a hard bike ride!

~Lisa~

I am bringing sexy back!

"Never had such a good time in my life before, I'd like to have it one time more...One good ride from start to end"
Grateful Dead



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