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TINIERTINA's Photo TINIERTINA Posts: 5,004
3/20/12 9:42 A

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Somehow, an article that has to do with P.T.A. fundraisers in a rapidly-gentrifying neighborhood of New York City landed in my hands this morning (I found a rejected Sunday newspaper and read it) ... I see another analogy - substitute the word "yoga class" for "cupcake" or "fundraiser". Not the worst analogy, IMHO ...

The Parent-Teacher Association’s decision to raise the price of a cupcake at its monthly bake sale — to $1, from 50 cents — was supposed to be a simple way to raise extra money in the face of city budget cuts.

Instead, in a neighborhood whose median household income leaped to $60,184 in 2010 from $34,878 a decade before, the change generated unexpected ire, pitting cash-short parents against volunteer bakers, and dividing a flummoxed PTA executive board, where wealthier newcomers to the school serve alongside poorer immigrants who have called the area home for years.

“A lot of people felt like they really needed to be heard on this,” recalled Dan Janzen, a mild-mannered freelance copywriter with children in first and third grades who leads the school’s development committee and devised the price increase.

One mother expressed dismay at being blindsided, while others said they were worried about those at the school without a dollar to spare. Ultimately, the PTA meeting at which the issue came to a head was adjourned without a resolution.

Such fracases are increasingly common at schools like P.S. 295, where changing demographics can cause culture clashes. PTA leaders are often caught between trying to get as much as possible from parents of means without alienating lower-income families.

Sometimes, the battles are over who should lead the PTA itself: many of the gentrifiers bring professional skills and different ideas of how to get things done, while those who improved the school enough to attract them become guardians of its traditions.

[Big middle part]

www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/education
/a
t-the-pta-clashes-over-cupcakes-and-R>culture.html


[Conclusion:]

But some of the wealthier parents were disappointed that one of their lower-cost events, a $5 winter concert series titled Beat the Blahs, drew a meager crowd to hear Cumbiagra, a local band that plays music from Colombia’s coastal region. Estela Bernabe, who has a fourth grader at the school and sometimes clocks 12-hour shifts as a baby sitter, said she thought she spoke for many in saying her absence was not politically charged. “I’m working,” she explained. “I just don’t have the time.”

A truce of sorts, meanwhile, has been called in the cupcake wars. The price is still $1, but two words have been added to the regular notice in the school bulletin: “Suggested donation.”

I like your posting of the serenity prayer, GARDENGIRL54.

I am in SparkPeople's answer to Debtors Anonymous (my debt brought on by periods of extended unemployment and being a displaced worker - not by spending on luxuries) ... and have to follow the 12 Steps ...



Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal.

- Igor Stravinsky

Find a way.

--Diana Nyad

(Said after swimming from Cuba to Key West without fins or shark cages)

My blog is at tiniertina.wordpress.com/ (topics vary; words are the most important things)

Now 103 pounds less than at age 24–w/o surgery!
GARDENGIRL54's Photo GARDENGIRL54 Posts: 802
3/20/12 9:06 A

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I would just like to say that, while there will always be someone out there with more money - that doesn't mean they are richer.... and I appreciated the comment about contentment.

With yoga - as in all areas of life - we must find a balance. Money, time, energy.... I know that yoga is a business like any other and, as such, instructors must make a living like any other business person. A well trained instructor has put in numerous hours in training and teaching. They deserve compensation for the work they do.

Yoga as medicine is an area that really intrigues me. Being a scientific minded person, I enjoy learning more about the science behind the practice. Personally I have been able to come off one medication and reduce another since practicing yoga regularly. My life is richer.

This thread made me think of the Serenity Prayer:

God grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can;
And wisdom to know the difference.

Namaste

Gardengirl54

Healthy by choice, not by chance!


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TINIERTINA's Photo TINIERTINA Posts: 5,004
3/19/12 8:16 P

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I see where you're going with this thread now, DENNETJ ... it could take one series ... or, as with me, 5 series of classes ... 3 workshops and a few sessions I won in a contest ...

So, to continue the analogy--there had been a brief period of time when I COULD afford to go to Weight Watchers meetings ... SO long ago, when they were more like $15 an hour (I honestly don't know the price of these meetings) ... but, then again, it also could be a philosophical thing with me, since I'd sworn off Weight Watchers in 1986 ... in addition to not being able to afford them ...

Some people decided they'd learned all the yoga they needed to keep practicing "FOREVER" on their own, with their first hatha yoga book, or their first LP record (remember those?), or their first set of classes ...

Likewise, SparkPeople is a free site. It will attract people of means, but it also will attract the rest of us ... THAT'S what I meant.

That wasn't meant to be a dig.

Certainly, some people don't have the time, even if they have the money, to make it to a meeting of Weight Watchers.

So, to continue the analogy, there are now free or low-cost yoga classes online (and, just like SparkPeople, you need to be more self motivated than to go to a live class ...
specials.forbes.com/article/09Pmb5L7
qr
eaZ
just like to the brick-and-mortar Weight Watchers meeting ...believe me, I know ... even if the results are not there, the quality of support is there if you want it ...)


Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal.

- Igor Stravinsky

Find a way.

--Diana Nyad

(Said after swimming from Cuba to Key West without fins or shark cages)

My blog is at tiniertina.wordpress.com/ (topics vary; words are the most important things)

Now 103 pounds less than at age 24–w/o surgery!
DENNETJ's Photo DENNETJ SparkPoints: (13,510)
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3/19/12 6:24 P

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I choose to go to classes at this time because I can afford them. I will probably take a couple months worth and then continue the practice on my own. I see them as a place to gain the knowlege to do it on my own until I can spend the money to continue.

~Jennifer,MLS(ASCP)cm ~
~Reed City, MI~


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TINIERTINA's Photo TINIERTINA Posts: 5,004
3/19/12 4:57 P

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Would you like it if Sparkpeople started charging you $20 an hour like Weight Watchers does. Expect so-called "class warfare" on a diet plan that is free, which does not only include those who would rather pretend it does not exist.


Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal.

- Igor Stravinsky

Find a way.

--Diana Nyad

(Said after swimming from Cuba to Key West without fins or shark cages)

My blog is at tiniertina.wordpress.com/ (topics vary; words are the most important things)

Now 103 pounds less than at age 24–w/o surgery!
FEB_SHOWERS16's Photo FEB_SHOWERS16 Posts: 2,057
3/19/12 3:45 P

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SHRLZI, I love how incredibly wise you are! Thank you for your comments re contentment. I am very disappointed to see so much hostility and class warfare on a yoga thread. In your posts, you offer solutions that are consistent with yoga philosophy. Namaste

Marie








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TINIERTINA's Photo TINIERTINA Posts: 5,004
3/18/12 10:24 A

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Yup, lemme see the menu:

I'll have mine in a download from online today, oh, and hold the food proselytizing. Yes, I'M good, and I don't care what the rest of the sangha eats. Wherever they are--as long as they don't poison themselves. Namaste and thanks.

And Sara Ivanhoe is one of the best ...

Really, if you can learn yoga from a Sara Ivanhoe recording, you could learn yoga from anywhere ... !

Edited by: TINIERTINA at: 3/19/2012 (13:39)

Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal.

- Igor Stravinsky

Find a way.

--Diana Nyad

(Said after swimming from Cuba to Key West without fins or shark cages)

My blog is at tiniertina.wordpress.com/ (topics vary; words are the most important things)

Now 103 pounds less than at age 24–w/o surgery!
SHRLZI's Photo SHRLZI Posts: 4,088
3/18/12 3:40 A

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this might be an opportunity to practice santosha - contentment - if you have found an inexpensive way to do yoga, kudos to you. If others have the resources to go to India and Bali (or prioritize to scrape together the money), kudos to you as well.

If I drive a 10-year-old compact car out of choice or necessity, should I rant about people who spend money on a Ferrari? Or practice contentment toward myself, and loving-kindness to those whose values I may not agree with?

Blessings to all of you!

...there is a place in you where you have never been wounded, where there's still a sureness in you, where there's a seamlessness in you, and where there is a confidence and tranquility in you. ~John O'Donohue
being.publicradio.org/programs/2010/
inner-landscape/transcript.shtml


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IMREITE's Photo IMREITE SparkPoints: (257,345)
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3/18/12 2:25 A

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Some yoga studios are independent locations They only make income from when people sign up for and take a class,. Large gyms make their money based on monthly fees instead of per class. Some of them only charge $10 per month, but if they have too many members, they don't care, they just shove people in or try to get you on different equipment. It is also common for people to pay for membership bu rarely or never attend. Smaller studios can not manage to have too many people because of space. instructors will also struggle to show you correct form if there are to many people.

I had a trial period at a gym and they did not charge more for their yoga fusion class. I did not like it. It was fast paced and they rarely made sure to explain poses, go over breathing, or give modifications, or review form. it other words, it was more fusion and little yoga.

I do yoga videos at home. for beginners, there are a lot of good ones that will review form and breathing technique. sara ivanhoe has a great variety.

Don't forget to be awesome.


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TINIERTINA's Photo TINIERTINA Posts: 5,004
3/18/12 12:16 A

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And yoga has started to have competitions right here in New York City.

I'd thought that all the competitions I knew about, began and ended just before the All Levels class on Sunday afternoon at a certain studio I used to go to ...

The next time you see an AcroYoga exhibition and you think you have to/hate looking at/want more than life, to be those AcroYogis, just remember this:

(Requisite skills notwithstanding) The calories burned per hour in an average person doing AcroYoga are hardly more than at any beginner vinyasa class ...

That said--this proves that yes, there IS a God ...

I'm glad there is a long-overdue backlash such as is reported in this venerable New York City health blog:

www.wellandgoodnyc.com/2012/03/09/ho
w-
william-j-broad-became-yogas-public-R>enemy-number-one-an-interview/


Oh, and I just saw a video online of the former Master Teacher ... seems like he's put on a few pounds ... about the same amount as I did ... now I know why this YOUNG person was so scared of gaining an ounce and spoke like he had an eating disorder all the time ...

Edited by: TINIERTINA at: 3/18/2012 (00:48)

Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal.

- Igor Stravinsky

Find a way.

--Diana Nyad

(Said after swimming from Cuba to Key West without fins or shark cages)

My blog is at tiniertina.wordpress.com/ (topics vary; words are the most important things)

Now 103 pounds less than at age 24–w/o surgery!
TINIERTINA's Photo TINIERTINA Posts: 5,004
3/18/12 12:11 A

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And consider this:

thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/0
9/
14/exclusion-and-american-yoga/


"As she points out, the historical progression of covers illustrates how the magazine started out with explicit connections to India and traditional yogis (below) and gradually moved towards featuring (and thus creating) western yoga superstars."

and this:

(I have posted this already to these threads ... and I like to show the end of the article (lengthy) first ... if I could emphasize phrases here, it would be even better: )

If more women become willing to put aside their fears, open their eyes to cost-free or inexpensive paths to wellness, and position themselves as essentially worthy instead of deeply flawed, priv-lit could soon migrate to a well-deserved new home: the fiction section. And once that happens, we might just succeed in showing that for every wealthy and insecure woman who can pony up to reach great heights of self and spending, there are thousands more whose lives are comparatively uncharmed, who are happier working with creative and healthy alternatives instead of spending on what they’re terrorized into wanting, and whose stories will, someday, be valued for the strength they communicate, not the fantasies they sell.

For decades, self-help literature and an obsession with wellness have captivated the imaginations of countless liberal Americans. Even now, as some of the hardest economic times in decades pinch our budgets, our spirits, we’re told, can still be rich. Books, blogs, and articles saturated with fantastical wellness schemes for women seem to have multiplied, in fact, featuring journeys (existential or geographical) that offer the sacred for a hefty investment of time, money, or both. There’s no end to the luxurious options a woman has these days—if she’s willing to risk everything for enlightenment. And from Oprah Winfrey and Elizabeth Gilbert to everyday women siphoning their savings to downward dog in Bali, the enlightenment industry has taken on a decidedly feminine sheen.

bitchmagazine.org/article/eat-pray-s
pe
nd


WILDFLOWER769, you go, girl ...

I am proud of my home practice (although it is yoga fusion. It had started out as yoga-cardio fusion. I was hoodwinked into believing that, as such, it was "inadequate" or misguided, and that I needed a flesh-and-blood teacher.

I am the yoga teacher trainee that never was. I spent less than a third of what an average teacher training course takes here in New York City and allowed that series of classes to take 36 times as long as an average part-time one. I took just enough lessons in it, spread over a few years fairly recently (not a recent arrival to the practice, I took a sprinkling of classes in the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s .. it's just that I did not do it regularly. I had thought it was for the naturally flexible, etc. Not to mention that acquaintances were surprised that I, who had temporarily lost a lot of weight (but not gotten stereotypically skinny like some hippie) had been taking it up - offered for free (and old-school mellow) in those days in the mid-70s ...)


Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal.

- Igor Stravinsky

Find a way.

--Diana Nyad

(Said after swimming from Cuba to Key West without fins or shark cages)

My blog is at tiniertina.wordpress.com/ (topics vary; words are the most important things)

Now 103 pounds less than at age 24–w/o surgery!
WILDFLOWER769's Photo WILDFLOWER769 Posts: 29
3/17/12 10:29 P

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I'm not sure if I'm qualified to respond since I've only taken one Yoga class in my life but for years I have been doing yoga in my home from books and videos/ dvd's. When we finally got high speed internet I also realized that one of the benefits is you can find free yoga videos even on You tube and some I found pretty decent like Yoga zone. Yoga Journal. com has free stuff too and great explanations of the poses. If I had the money/ time/space to allow for me to take a class I probably would but that being said yoga doesn't have to be expensive, you just have to be creative about where you find instruction.

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FLAMENM's Photo FLAMENM Posts: 35,755
3/17/12 9:56 P

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I find yoga classes to be about the same cost as any other athletic class. Or any studio pass system. And definitely cheaper than a lot of continuing ed classes. I think Shrlzi bought up a good point. Yoga teachers are running a business. They have the same issues all small businesses have wiht overhead, benefits, utilities, rent, etc.

I don't have to go to a class, I choose to. But I also choose not to have cable YV, not to have a cell phone, etc. I have had a lot of heated discussions with members of my family recently along these lines. Yeah, my grocery bill is large. And my yoga bill is large. But it sure is les sthan their medical bills. I always remind myself I can pay my grocer or yoga instructor or I can pay a doctor later.

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PETALIA's Photo PETALIA SparkPoints: (83,853)
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3/17/12 3:45 P

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Wow. This is something I think about A LOT, economic class and health and wellness. In the US, preventative health care is not in the equation. Only a few health insurance companies offer to pay a portion of one's gym membership. In Britain, I hear one can get a prescription from their doctor for exercise. In the US, soda pop and coffee are considered foods and covered by food stamps; spirulina is not and not covered by food stamps. One can buy a large hamburger meal for $1.00 at many fast food places. A single apple costs perhaps $0.45? I remember when living in an impoverished area in NYC, the local supermarket had a lot of pink and processed foods. I worked in an affluent neighborhood. Their supermarket had an enormous produce section. There are a few community oriented free yoga classes available where I live now. This is not the norm. A person could get into fancy yoga clothes, fancy classes, fancy supermarkets (like Whole Paycheck whose CEO does not believe in health care for all and does not believe that health care is a human right...) Oh, this topic gets me ranting and ranting. I do appreciate SP for being free. I do appreciate all of us going towards wellness as best we can in this messed up world. Arrgh!

TINIERTINA's Photo TINIERTINA Posts: 5,004
3/17/12 11:28 A

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It's a "coincidence" that the teachers giving the 1/3 price "karma" yoga classes are the least experienced and/or the least certified ...

(Except I'd found a really decent one at the time (I'd clicked with her) some may not be so lucky! I would not go to the karma class of the one who'd taken her place ...)


Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal.

- Igor Stravinsky

Find a way.

--Diana Nyad

(Said after swimming from Cuba to Key West without fins or shark cages)

My blog is at tiniertina.wordpress.com/ (topics vary; words are the most important things)

Now 103 pounds less than at age 24–w/o surgery!
SHRLZI's Photo SHRLZI Posts: 4,088
3/17/12 11:23 A

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This is a question I often hear of yoga, but not so often about doctors, lawyers, professional engineers, etc.

Yoga teachers have the same expenses as any business: education and training, building rent, utilities and maintenance, insurance, bookkeeping, etc. In this country, yoga teachers are not part of a religious tradition and do not get the kind of community support that a priest or minister does, so classes are their only support (unless they have a 'day job' or family support).

Do the math -- what is the rent in your town for a 1,000 sq ft commercial space, the size you'd need to run classes for about 20 people? Double that (roughly) to cover other expenses. How many full-capacity classes would you have to teach at the going rate in order to just cover costs? How many time slots are there available when you would be likely to fill classes? (basically, evenings and Saturday mornings.) How much is there left over to cover your own salary?

A well-respected inspirational writer once said (in private) "It's a spiritual practice, but you have to run it like a business."

How would *you* propose to make low prices possible for yoga classes??

Which brings us to another point -- people seem to value things in proportion to the cost. I've offered donation-based classes and found that fewer people come to those than to my regular, "high-priced" classes.

go figure.
emoticon

...there is a place in you where you have never been wounded, where there's still a sureness in you, where there's a seamlessness in you, and where there is a confidence and tranquility in you. ~John O'Donohue
being.publicradio.org/programs/2010/
inner-landscape/transcript.shtml


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SHOOPETTE's Photo SHOOPETTE SparkPoints: (89,216)
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3/17/12 10:29 A

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This is such an interesting article and subject, I actually never thought about it, I always knew yoga to be expensive and accepted it.
Very good food for thoughts



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TINIERTINA's Photo TINIERTINA Posts: 5,004
3/17/12 10:15 A

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"So why do studios and classes have to be so expensive?

"Personally I think it has to do with how we’ve categorized yoga and “living a healthy lifestyle” in the community. I think part of the problem is that “living healthy” is intentionally marketed towards people in higher income brackets, and not much effort is made to reach people of lower income brackets. Take Whole Foods for example. Shopping at your neighborhood supermarket is give or take $50…double that when shopping at Whole Foods and buying all natural, organic food.

"A certain lifestyle is being marketed to a very specific subgroup of the public."

Read more here ...

thekulaapprentice.blogspot.com/2012/
02
/why-is-yoga-so-expensive.html


Don't get me started on lack of size diversity, lack of ethnic diversity, cliquishness in your big-city yoga studio ... you know (or can imagine) it's true.

I live in New York City where there are more yoga studios than there are Starbucks. In the current brou-ha-ha over Anusara and lingering economic woes, of course studios have been reaching out online ... and there is a sea-change happening ...

The market is finally stratifying greatly (and it should have been segmenting all along) ... and - of course - I won't be taking any private sessions soon. I'd never even taken personal training at a gym! Plus, I've been gym-free for nearly 4 years!


Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal.

- Igor Stravinsky

Find a way.

--Diana Nyad

(Said after swimming from Cuba to Key West without fins or shark cages)

My blog is at tiniertina.wordpress.com/ (topics vary; words are the most important things)

Now 103 pounds less than at age 24–w/o surgery!
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