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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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8/15/12 7:20 P

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I say lay off the books, do your own homework, draw your own conclusions. This isn't about convincing anyone, it's about providing data for them to use it as they deem prudent.

Science isn't always right and bias free either, which is why we keep studying and keep learning.

I submit for your review, a study that lends a bit of credibility to non-celiac wheat sensitivity.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22825366

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,343
8/9/12 12:36 A

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I guess my personal interest is not to convince anyone. I personally want to encourage people to try something different if what they were doing was not working. Everyone has to make their own choice which research and also what experiences (their own and those of other people) to take into consideration.
Two books on low-carb and low-grain eating that have a lot of links to research are Nora Gedgaudas "Primal Body, Primal Mind" and this book by Steven Phinney and Jeff Volek:
www.amazon.com/The-Art-Science-Carbo
hy
drate-Living/dp/0983490708

Hopefully many people who are interested will make the effort to take a look at these books and then decide if they want to look up the research articles listed in the references.
I personally will not often go that far for time reasons and decide to put my trust in people who are respected researchers in their field. emoticon
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

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8/8/12 9:01 P

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The first study is a group of 34 people. That's an incredibly small study, you realize. The conclusion is "Non-celiac gluten intolerance" may exist.

The second study from 1981 has 15 people. It also took the normal diet and added 40g of gluten per day. For reference, the average diet contains 10-40g gluten. So they added 100-400% gluten and concluded "These findings indicate that excessive gluten intake can induce changes". The fact that a couple of people got diarrhea?

If you have more compelling studies, I'm definitely interested, but these are hardly convincing me that wheat in moderation or sugar for that matter, has any real detrimental effect on healthy individuals.

I do appreciate it, though. Always enjoy reading studies.

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EEVEE1's Photo EEVEE1 Posts: 4,426
8/8/12 8:24 P

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Here is one from the US National Library of Medicine. It doesn't go as far as saying don't eat wheat but it does show one study with regards to gluten in a controlled study. If you really want to read more about it, there are a few different studies there involving gluten and grains.
There are others, this was just the easiest to get to, and isn't conclusive one way or the other.


If you are interested, carry on and find some more studies, if you aren't interested than stop asking for research. As I have said earlier, for every study showing something, there are studies to disprove it. This happens in all areas of nutrition, health and other sciences. It is up to you to decide what is best and what works for you.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6111631 www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21224837

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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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8/8/12 3:55 P

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I didn't ask for a book review. I asked for one study that conclusively proves what is being asserted. I read a lot of studies and haven't come across one. I'm not interested in buying this book, I'm interested in real studies. Someone's opinion or conclusion of studies is not interesting to me.

So I ask again, you guys have the book with the plethora of studies, kindly point me to one in pubmed so that I may review for myself. Ya know, for science.

Thanks.

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,343
8/8/12 11:34 A

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I believe a mix of foods is very good, too. These days for me that means veggies, some fruit, nuts, oily seeds like hemp, sesame and flax, raw dairy, eggs, meat and fish. It's by far the tastiest diet I have ever eaten and I'm getting all my macro- and micronutrients from it. Many people have been taught that grains are essential for their nutrients but there are no nutrients in grains that can not be found in good quantities in other foods that will not spike insulin levels.
Insulin resistance or metabolic syndrome is the cause for obesity in a very large percentage of overweight people so reducing the amount of insulin our body produces makes sense in most cases.
Birgit emoticon

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BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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DIDMIS's Photo DIDMIS Posts: 103,337
8/8/12 11:00 A

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Thank you Birgit. Very informative. I priced it for Kindle and it is almost $10.00 I think I will take advantage of our library which I seldom do.
Irene

IRENE FROM TEXAS
The Lord bless you
and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine upon you
and be gracious to you;
the Lord turn His face toward you and give you peace.
Numbers 6:22-26 (NIV)



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MNJONES2's Photo MNJONES2 Posts: 2,016
8/8/12 10:42 A

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I feel a mix of foods is best - Protein, fruits & veggies and a carb. I try to eat that mix at my meals and that works for me.

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8/8/12 10:31 A

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oola I haven't tried it yet but it is one of my trigger foods and if it will help my belly fat and my scaly ears I am willing to eat rye.
Right now I am cutting back and when I have my blood work which I believe is for allergies I will know more from the doctor. This is something I had heard from years and my belly has always been big. I am in it for a healthy lifestyle and eat plenty of veggies, fruits, water.
Irene

Edited by: DIDMIS at: 8/8/2012 (10:33)
IRENE FROM TEXAS
The Lord bless you
and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine upon you
and be gracious to you;
the Lord turn His face toward you and give you peace.
Numbers 6:22-26 (NIV)



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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 8,513
8/8/12 9:50 A

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I don't think anyone is contesting the idea that wheat may have negative effects. So do many foods. However, the fact that a few people statistically have had even great benefit is not a reason to use eliminating it at a weight loss technique, in my opinion. Many people have excellent results initially from eating all raw foods. Most who start it are not doing it two years later. I look for behaviors that have been sustainable for 2-5 years for the many. Worldwide, eating moderate amounts of food consistently results in normal BMI's for the great majority of the populations, no matter that the mix of the foods are in that culture. I don't think enough attention and effort have been given to helping "losers" learn the skill of doing that.

I'm definitely glad you've had success so far with it. I'm also glad that the trend has allowed more products without wheat to come to market as I AM interested in its alternatives and have been cooking and eating a variety of grains since I took a macrobiotic cooking class over 20 years ago. But I'm not a total vegetarian, either. emoticon

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,343
8/8/12 2:13 A

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As the current leader of the Wheatbelly team I decided to comment at least briefly. The book "Wheatbelly" by William Davis is quite comprehensive and it is hardly possible to give a summary in a short post. I just want to say that Dr. Davis explains that there are several issues with modern wheat (not so much with ancient forms of wheat like Einkorn or Emmer), among them gluten, substances that make wheat addictive, and high levels of starch which trigger a huge insulin response. My copy of the book is out on loan to a friend who is a pharmacist so I can't quote from it at the moment. I do know that she is reading it with her husband and kids and they have already decided to never to eat wheat again. She grew up on a wheat farm.
The book is now available in many public libraries and it is very readable. The blog by Dr. Davis is also very accessible and can be found here:
www.wheatbellyblog.com/
His book just made it to number 1 on the New York Times Bestseller list for the Hardcover advice and miscellaneous category.
I can only say that my weight is the lowest it has been since I was 16 since I have given up wheat and other grains and high-carb foods about 5 months ago and I eat 2-3 meals a day, don't need snacks and have no food cravings any more. For anyone who struggles to maintain and needs to count calories and/or exercise a ton skipping wheat may be worth trying for a month. emoticon
@Brewmasterbill,
the book has a lot of references for the research articles you would probably find more interesting.
@Didmis,
thanks for sharing this important issue here, I wish I had thought of that myself.
emoticon
Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 8/8/2012 (02:16)
You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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EEVEE1's Photo EEVEE1 Posts: 4,426
8/7/12 7:42 P

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I know a few people who feel it pretty quickly when they have wheat products. One of them is usually fine with the cheap white bread and only reacts to grainier products.
I feel the difference when I have too much and have thought about getting rid of it, but I like it too much to give it up yet.

Facts om books are just as reliable as facts anywhere else. And really, it doesn't matter what facts you find, someone else has more studies and facts that counter it. Only you truly know how you feel. If you feel better, then it is something that you need to cut out.

Success consists of a series of little daily victories.

Laddie Hutar



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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 8,513
8/7/12 7:36 P

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I like the statement that a book is an opinion. It took me a long time to see it, though there are still books I've found helpful. Nowadays, I concentrate on ones that promote simple moderation. I, too, have lost weight (16%) eating wheat. and I think of those Italians, the second lowest average BMI in Europe, eating pasta every day and bread usually more than once a day. Wheat and not even whole grain. But they don't snack and they don't stuff themselves.

I just think before we go to extremes, try moderation. Statistically, cutting out any food group or even food (like sugar) does not lead to weight loss after 5 years. Personally, I think it promotes the sense of failure many dieters have when they can't stick to such regimes.

And it seems this group doesn't eliminate anything, though we probably have a few vegetarians? I think we probably tend to eat fewer processed foods in general? OH, who knows!

*"The goal of weight loss is incompatible with recovering from disordered eating." Center for Clinical Interventions
*The No S Diet saved my emotional life! Four years and counting. nosdiet.com/ *Be happy with this moment. This moment is your life.
*Get to the next meal hungry!
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NELLJONES's Photo NELLJONES SparkPoints: (232,231)
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8/7/12 4:24 P

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My son is a Registered Dietician. He tells me that different things come into vogue as the "secret" to losing weight. More vitamin D! Less gluten! It's a roller coaster that a bunch of marketers are happy to jump on to sell as much as possible until the next big "secret" comes out. Alas, the true secret is that there isn't a secret. Just plain old boring moderation, vigilance, persistence and common sense. It hard to make money on that, though.

Nell
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DIDMIS's Photo DIDMIS Posts: 103,337
8/7/12 2:50 P

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At least I met a fellow maintainer. emoticon

IRENE FROM TEXAS
The Lord bless you
and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine upon you
and be gracious to you;
the Lord turn His face toward you and give you peace.
Numbers 6:22-26 (NIV)



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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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8/7/12 2:40 P

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No one is offended or taking anything personally. I'm just skeptical by nature. If you don't have quality studies, I'll just opt out of the discussion. No big deal. Thanks.

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DIDMIS's Photo DIDMIS Posts: 103,337
8/7/12 2:37 P

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I'm sorry you took this personally. I did not send it to anyone personally. I have had good comments and some who didn't agree. That is their right.

IRENE FROM TEXAS
The Lord bless you
and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine upon you
and be gracious to you;
the Lord turn His face toward you and give you peace.
Numbers 6:22-26 (NIV)



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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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8/7/12 2:27 P

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Not buying a book. A book is an opinion. I was specifically looking for evidence. pubmed references are graciously accepted.

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DIDMIS's Photo DIDMIS Posts: 103,337
8/7/12 2:26 P

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BREWMASTER he has some books out on it.

IRENE FROM TEXAS
The Lord bless you
and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine upon you
and be gracious to you;
the Lord turn His face toward you and give you peace.
Numbers 6:22-26 (NIV)



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GOING4MUSCLE's Photo GOING4MUSCLE Posts: 5,224
8/7/12 2:13 P

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I've never been one to believe that ONE thing is gonna have the same effect on every body. I, myself, stick totally to whole grain, wheat products, and will avoid the whites..cause I know how the whites contribute to the insulin spikes, which I want to avoid.

But if someone believes wheat produces a negative effect on their body, then I think it's worth a shot to try to eliminate it from their diet. We each have to discover what it is that our body is asking for, or wanting gone, and that can only happen through trial and error.

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ROSEWAND's Photo ROSEWAND SparkPoints: (105,343)
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8/7/12 1:32 P

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Wheat has become the bad boy in the neighborhood.
It is probably because we eat far too much, especially
white combined with the Standard American Diet. No
one food is the source of our dietary crisis.

Moderation works for me. I eat wheat on a regular basis.
I even enjoy wonderful french baguettes several times a week.
My everyday wheat of choice is Ezekiel Bread with sprouted grains.
It is the best and does not impact blood sugar nearly as much.

I shrunk my waist from 35" to 25" while eating wheat and
even measured amounts of sugar. The key is to eat these foods
surrounded by low glycemic foods as your blood sugar is effected
by an average of everything you at each time. A good choice is to
eat a slice of baguette with a little olive oil. A bad choice is to eat
it first or by its self.

I love wheat both white and whole. I just remember to eat a variety
of grains in measured amounts.

Edited by: ROSEWAND at: 8/7/2012 (13:34)
Lost sixty pounds.
Have been in maintenance
for four years.
Goal weight 126


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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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8/7/12 11:21 A

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Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was looking for his basis for that comment. What study is that cited from?

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DIDMIS's Photo DIDMIS Posts: 103,337
8/7/12 11:14 A

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BREWMASTERBILL

From Dr. William Davis as the article says. I have been told most of my life that although I have reached my goal weight my large tummy comes from white carbs.

IRENE FROM TEXAS
The Lord bless you
and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine upon you
and be gracious to you;
the Lord turn His face toward you and give you peace.
Numbers 6:22-26 (NIV)



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KENDRACARROLL's Photo KENDRACARROLL Posts: 2,231
8/7/12 11:14 A

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No wheat seems to be the latest SparkTrend.
I, too, believe that moderation is key.

When you see a person on a mountain top, just remember they did not fall there!







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KENDRACARROLL's Photo KENDRACARROLL Posts: 2,231
8/7/12 11:14 A

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Sorry, trigger finger... :)

Edited by: KENDRACARROLL at: 8/7/2012 (11:14)
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EATNBOOGERS's Photo EATNBOOGERS Posts: 2,215
8/7/12 10:32 A

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Yeah that.

Kristine

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NELLJONES's Photo NELLJONES SparkPoints: (232,231)
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8/7/12 10:28 A

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There are some people who cannot process gluten, and some who have an allergy to it. For the rest of us it's just a matter of moderation. And enjoyment. The two can coexist.

Nell
Reston, Virginia

No one ever got up in the morning wishing she'd eaten more the night before.

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8/7/12 10:19 A

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[citation needed]

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
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"In god we trust, all others bring data."

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DIDMIS's Photo DIDMIS Posts: 103,337
8/7/12 10:15 A

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Cut Wheat Products From Your Diet And You Won't Be Hungry


Dr. William Davis says Wheat rapidly turns into sugar and accelrates aging and chronic illness in most of us. Whole wheat and white bread have essentially the same impact on blood sugar, which is to say you might as well be eating a big spoonful of sugar.

Slices of whole wheat bread increase blood sugar to a higher level than a candy bar does.

If you eliminate wheat from your diet, you're no longer hungry, cut out the appetite stimulant, and consequently you lose weight very quickly. Rye seems to be the best choice.




IRENE FROM TEXAS
The Lord bless you
and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine upon you
and be gracious to you;
the Lord turn His face toward you and give you peace.
Numbers 6:22-26 (NIV)



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