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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/23/12 9:10 P

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DYER?

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=5425006


Current Program bb531.wordpress.com/about/

"In god we trust, all others bring data."

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there." - Rip


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MJREIMERS's Photo MJREIMERS Posts: 3,943
7/23/12 5:47 P

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What a great thread! I agree with the emphasis on cardio. I reached my goal weight and started doing my weight training and the pounds started coming back on. I know everyone says muscle weighs more than fat, but after one is trying to lose for so long and to see it creep back on is somewhat frustrating. I also think one needs to keep in mind age. I'm almost 45 and I know my metabolism has dropped, again. I still have menopause to look forward to...NOT!

Now I try to do cardio everyday and weights every other day. I'm hoping to build lean muscle.


~Mako~


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ROSEWAND's Photo ROSEWAND SparkPoints: (95,844)
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7/20/12 1:29 P

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I have successfully lost then maintained for nearly two years
with HIIT which I do three times per week for 35 minutes,
but only 15 minutes in each session at high intensity.
Four years agoI started walking, now I run.

The key is: it never gets easier. I train to my heart rate
and as I have become amazingly more fit, of course I
apply more effort. I walk twice a week. I have don a
little upper body strength training. But the core of
my program is HIIT using a treadmill.

Combining HIIT with a mostly unprocessed diet has made
maintenance fairly easier for me. And I am in the best
shape of my life in my late sixties.

Lost sixty pounds.
Have been in maintenance
for four years.
Goal weight 126


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GOING4MUSCLE's Photo GOING4MUSCLE Posts: 5,223
7/16/12 11:00 P

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I've done the Total Gym (still use it just for weighted leg work on ramp), P90X, Tae Bo, and then to free weights/barbell. I just feel it's more important to find what it is that works for you and your body, then burn out is less likely to occur. So this was the main reason I stopped doing the steady cardio, as it was such a struggle and I dreaded every moment.

As for the "progressive overload", yes, I do agree that is the ideal way to keep challenging the muscles, and I did just that. I was lifting upwards of 60-100 pounds, after many, many, many, months of growth. I became quite buff (almost too much), but it came with quite a cost....I ended up with needing surgery for a fallen bladder.

So, today, I am on a lifetime weight restriction and am very mindful of doing a 'safe' pelvic floor strength training routine. Its been 11 months since surgery and I've progressed to MY max weight limits (depends on body position) so that just leaves room for improvement, through increasing reps. Sometimes we just have to make do with what we are able to work with.

Honestly, though, I'm more than pleased with my body shape and tone, today. I am much leaner, today, than I ever was, back when I was lifting so excessive. Sure, I have to be content with the amount of muscle I have, now, cause other than 'maintaining' it, there's no room for more 'growth', due to the restrictions.

But, heck...I'm 50 years old, wear size 1 jeans, am low fat/lean, have maintained a 73 pound weight loss for over 2 years (with little effort), so the muscle amount I do have, must be doing the trick! No complaints here!! emoticon

**~**Shelly**~**

Starting Weight: 185lbs
Current Weight: 116lbs

Maintenance: 7 years, June 2014

















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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/16/12 11:00 A

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In an effort to widen the net a little, I made a post this morning and encouraged folks who are interested in exploring this over to this thread.

www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
ur
nal_individual.asp?blog_id=4972579


Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=5425006


Current Program bb531.wordpress.com/about/

"In god we trust, all others bring data."

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there." - Rip


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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/16/12 7:50 A

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CELIAMINER,
Do not vary your routine until it stops progressing. You could always go to your trainer with this:

startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:
Th
e_Program


Scroll to the "Practical Programming (2nd Ed) Novice Program" and print that off for your trainer. Have her coach you on these lifts. I hope she knows them well. Otherwise you could also buy the book "Starting Strength" which goes through the lifts in mind numbing detail.

Also, I think your trainer is doing it backwards. You should be doing the big lifts first. I'm not sure what your PT has you doing, but if you're doing benches, squats, deadlifts LAST, that is definitely backwards.

It'd be cool if Shelly could confirm based on her experience, but for me, doing less is more. My workouts are done about 2x per week and last about 30-40 minutes, including warm up.

Recovery is key, so doing 1-2 strenuous workouts per week is all that is required. Assuming you're working to failure, you'll need this recovery time.

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=5425006


Current Program bb531.wordpress.com/about/

"In god we trust, all others bring data."

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there." - Rip


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CELIAMINER's Photo CELIAMINER SparkPoints: (159,489)
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7/16/12 7:40 A

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Thanks for starting this thread, Bill. I'm new to maintenance, as I just "declared Spring" less than three months ago. I'm going to talk to my trainer about becoming more rigorous in my ST. Although she leads me through ST sessions and changes things up so I'm not just doing the same routine, she pretty much lets me pick the weight for each exercise. I've expressed that I'd like to ratchet up my bench press, but for me, that means bench press needs to be my lead-off exercise, and my trainer frequently starts me off with other lifts that fatigue my muscles too much by the time I get to bench press to make progress. Thinking I need to be more assertive in stating my goals and desires.

Celia
Maintaining since May 19, 2012


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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/16/12 7:21 A

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Umm, wow. Shelly, you look fantastic. I've combed through your sparkpage and aside from your jaw dropping pictures, you're a little sparse on what you've done to build muscle. Care to share with us? Increasing reps is overload. Each workout should progress in some shape or fashion, so it sounds to me like you're still doing it right. Once you cross about 20 reps though, I've read that you've ventured into the land of aerobics instead of anaerobic activity.

Tell us more.

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=5425006


Current Program bb531.wordpress.com/about/

"In god we trust, all others bring data."

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there." - Rip


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GOING4MUSCLE's Photo GOING4MUSCLE Posts: 5,223
7/16/12 12:38 A

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During my entire 2 years plus into maintenance, I have not done any "steady state cardio"...just 3 days a week of strength training and have not had any trouble with keeping the weight off. In fact, I even lost an additional 15lbs 'during this maintenance period', without much effort in trying to do so.

People around me always ask how I do it and I simply tell them by building muscle through strength training and eating clean. It's so true...We are what we eat.

Now, as for the, progressively lifting heavier or doing more reps, I'm now restricted on how much weight and in what body position I'm allowed to do, so the increasing rep count is my only option. But, luckily, it seems to be doing the trick, as its been almost a year since the restriction and I'm still holding my own. I'm not as 'muscular', as I had been in the past, but that's fine...I just want to be fit and healthy. emoticon

**~**Shelly**~**

Starting Weight: 185lbs
Current Weight: 116lbs

Maintenance: 7 years, June 2014

















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BESTSUSIEYET's Photo BESTSUSIEYET Posts: 3,505
7/15/12 7:05 P

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Interesting read ... Will be watching and learning!

"Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress." I Timothy 4:15

1 Cor. 10:23 "Everything is permissable, but not everything is beneficial."
(NIV)



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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/15/12 3:12 P

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"chronic cardio" ... nice term.

I didn't want to get into diet here (at least not yet) because that seems to be a religious topic. Unprocessed food with a relatively high protein and omega-3 fat content seems to promote favorable body composition.

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=5425006


Current Program bb531.wordpress.com/about/

"In god we trust, all others bring data."

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there." - Rip


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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/15/12 3:03 P

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Define "occasional" steady state cardio and what advantage would it provide over HIIT or rigorous strength training?

Let me also state that anything works for the largely untrained. You can get results in a video if you've previously done little strength training. Over time, though the video gets easier and the results wane. This happened to me with P90X. Barbell training will also fail to produce positive adaptations over time, but progressive overload is superior to anything else that we currently know of.

Edited by: BREWMASTERBILL at: 7/15/2012 (15:03)
Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=5425006


Current Program bb531.wordpress.com/about/

"In god we trust, all others bring data."

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there." - Rip


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JESSIHOVER1's Photo JESSIHOVER1 Posts: 602
7/15/12 2:53 P

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I totally agree that spark is geared towards pushing cardio as hard as you can. However I do think occasional steady state cardio is great. I do however disagree with the fact substantial strength training isn't in a video. I have had amazing toning results from doing Jillian Michaels DVDs.

I also think that spark is geared towards losing weight, not maintaining. I have found that since starting my maintenance period spark has been more harmful than helpful. They constantly promote ways to burn more and eat less, which for me has caused a bit of an eating disorder. I do think spark needs to come up with a better program for its maintainers if they want us to stick around.

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,095
7/15/12 2:46 P

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My experience is also anecdotal, but if it works for me it works for at least one person. I have experienced what Mark Sisson calls "chronic cardio" in his book The Primal Blueprint which is exactly the same thing: losing muscle mass when losing weight and then setting oneself up for easier weight gain. I believe a lower carb and possibly somewhat lower protein diet that does not trigger insulin production is part of what works for me along with lower-stress (meaning lower heart rate) cardio for fun along with strength training and occasional sprints (running swimming, biking, whatever gets your heart rate up high) will work for me and would work for many others.
Bigit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/15/12 2:11 P

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Much of my evidence is anecdotal but it is based on science too. Sarcopenia is the degenerative loss of skeletal muscle mass. This happens with age and it also happens with weight loss. One of the big reasons named during maintenance failure is unfavorable body composition. During an extended caloric deficit exacerbated by much steady state cardio, many of us, myself included were left in a "skinny fat" state. This state is very favorable for weight regain since fat is far less metabolically active than muscle. Some studies have recently noted that the BMR of two people at the same weight can be up to 20% different where one person dieted down to said weight and another was always at said weight. Why is this so? The studies I have seen did not seem to mention body composition, so I will purport that the dieted down subject has a far less favorable body composition.

SparkPeople, whether through policy or simply due to the nature of the members, is extremely pro steady state cardio. We encourage marathoners, tri-athletes and other endurance activities. Meanwhile, many of these folks either plateau or regain weight even though they are vigilant about their activity of choice. As one does more endurance activity, the body becomes more efficient and the calorie burn and subsequent recovery much less calorically expensive. Couple this with a lower BMR due to lower body weight and muscle mass and you have a recipe for plateaus/regain. This becomes even more so when the individual halts their excessive endurance training.

As a loser and subsequent maintainer and now observer, I learned this the hard way.

Doing steady state cardio is to your detriment. Ignoring or doing suboptimal strength training is to your detriment.

As a maintainer, we need to focus on two things in this order.

1) A good diet. Maybe you don't need to count calories any longer, but eating largely unprocessed food in reasonable quantities is huge.

2) Effective strength training.

I believe most of us here know what a good diet consists of. It might vary slightly from person to person, but as maintainers, I'll say we've figured it out for ourselves.

Item 2, effective strength training, seems to be largely lost in the SP community. For starters, effective strength training is not a video or a class.

It IS all about progressive overloading. This means that it never gets easier. Each session should be marked with some progress in the way of increased weight or increased reps. Muscular failure should occur or weight and/or reps should be increased to facilitate failure in the next session. Compound movements that recruit the most muscle fiber and elicit the most biological response are recommended. The "big 3" as they are commonly referred to as seem to accommodate both requirements. The big 3 are the squat, deadlift and benchpress. A program can simply do these three moves and nothing else combined with progressive overloading and be effective. Ancillary lifts that support the big 3 can be used when progression is stuck.

These three lifts done as little as once or twice a week are sufficient assuming muscular failure is achieved. In fact, more than twice a week may be counterproductive as it hinders the recovery process.

But what about my heart?

There is sufficient stimulus of the cardiovascular system during intense strength training that a person of reasonable aerobic capacity can largely maintain or improve VO2max. Also, one HIIT session per week not to exceed 30 minutes will build aerobic capacity sufficiently.

But I enjoy running/swimming/biking/hiking,etc.

That's fine. The point is never to take away from activity that you enjoy, but hitting that treadmill begrudgingly 5x a week is completely unnecessary. Understand that steady state cardio a) this does not have to be done in excess and b) that doing so in excess may be detracting from successful maintenance.

I've been practicing this ideology for the past few months. I've largely quit recording calories, my cardio has been near 0 with the exception of some hill sprints from time to time and my strength is up. Recently I notched a DECREASED race time for a 10K.

My experience is anecdotal, I understand, but I wanted to share my discoveries with you all because it goes pretty significantly against the grain. What's more, it makes a lifetime of maintenance a lot more achievable because of a huge decrease in time required and a huge decrease in chance of injury.

I post this here because I believe that folks within the healthy BMI range need to be focused on body composition to be successful maintainers. People who are obese can still benefit from steady state cardio.

I also wanted to open this up for discussion and have you share your experience and opinions. Of course, I'm open to questions as well.

The usual disclaimer applies, I'm assuming you're healthy, I'm also not a doctor, trainer or any professional for that matter. I'm just a guy trying to maintain. Consult doctors and trainers before undergoing any significant diet or training changes.

Simple, Effective Strength Training for Beginners www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=5425006


Current Program bb531.wordpress.com/about/

"In god we trust, all others bring data."

"You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there." - Rip


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