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GABY1948's Photo GABY1948 SparkPoints: (434,244)
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10/20/15 12:05 P

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Can I join this thread so late? It looks REALLY good so will catch up later but want to subscribe to it now!??? emoticon

Gaye / Michigan

"TRUST THE PROCESS!"

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JEANKNEE's Photo JEANKNEE Posts: 11,258
10/16/15 10:48 P

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Potatoes appear to do me no harm. I find our experiences so interesting.

As much as I like oatmeal, I've learned that it leaves me feeling empty and ravenous within about 90 minutes. I may give it another go this winter and experiment with eating protein along with it and see how that goes.

In the morning, eggs and bacon with a slice of buttered toast appear to support my body best. Recently, I've been adding an apple to my breakfast. I am really enjoying our fall apples and squashes.

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VTRICIA's Photo VTRICIA Posts: 2,419
10/16/15 9:47 P

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I like the DASH plan, which in it's original form emphasized vegetables, fruits, whole grains, dairy, legumes, with some lean meat and nuts. They have retooled it to appeal to the lower carb/more protein folks.

I don't know that I'd say go high glycemic, though I am a defender of potatoes. But when people point out that whole wheat is higher glycemic than table sugar, I am, like, "I know, that's because sugar is half fructose".

I prefer to eat less meat for environmental, especially water use, reasons.

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 10,933
10/13/15 2:51 A

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Interesting journey, Jeanknee. I have very little overt negative reactions to foods, besides the tug to overdo a few of them (got that mostly licked these days.) Glad you seem to have found your combo. Got Greek yogurt in the fridge now.



“To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats. Six years and counting! nosdiet.com/ *Be happy with this moment. This moment is your life.
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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JEANKNEE's Photo JEANKNEE Posts: 11,258
10/12/15 2:32 P

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Yes! Less manufactured food is a boon. I am doing better in that regard.

I have severe allergies to three broad classifications of antibiotics and an allergist that was way ahead of his time suggested that I was winding up in the ER with anaphylaxis reactions because of the antibiotic residue present in our meat supply.

He strongly encouraged me to quit eating meat which I did for an entire decade. People around me reacted like I was being treated by a quack and many did not hesitate to say so. The allergist was right. It was the antibiotics. I had strep throat years later. The suspected antibiotic was prescribed. I balked. They insisted. I took the drug and landed in the ER in full blown anaphylaxis.

I have returned to meat eating; but, do not eat much. Ironically, the vast majority of my weight gain occurred while I was vegetarian. I look for meat free of antibiotics, growth hormones, and dyes. Thankfully, I have not had any more food/medication related ER trips.

You are so right about it being almost impossible to hit on the right combo straight away and that things change along the way. So true!

One of the things that I routinely eat is non-fat Greek yogurt with berries. Berries are my favorite fruit and I've discovered that I really like Greek yogurt. Other dairy is kind of dicey for me. As an infant I was not breast fed. I was unable to tolerate cow's milk or soy and was fed goat's milk. And, my system is just fine with goat cheeses. It also appears that my body tolerates organic whole milks (we're talking cow's milk here) much better than reduced fat, non-organic varieties. Don't understand why. But, that's been my experience.

It's certainly been an interesting adventure and I appreciate those of you sharing your experience. I have found it tremendously supportive and helpful!

Edited by: JEANKNEE at: 10/12/2015 (14:33)
Jeanne
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 10,933
10/12/15 8:51 A

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I am similar, though for other than health reasons I've been eating less meat, and having decent results. This is why it takes 2-5 years for maintenance to reach the 75% success rate. It's almost impossible to hit on the right combo straight away, not to mention that things change along the way! But less manufactured food is a boon.

“To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats. Six years and counting! nosdiet.com/ *Be happy with this moment. This moment is your life.
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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JEANKNEE's Photo JEANKNEE Posts: 11,258
10/12/15 8:30 A

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Oolala, I appreciate your feedback too. Thanks!

I have found through tracking, observation of my body, and trial and error that the following nutient breakdown helps me be at my best ...
Carbs - 40%-45%
Fats - 30%-35%
Protein - 20%-30%
Fiber - 25g -50g


Jeanne
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 10,933
10/12/15 8:21 A

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So, Vtricia, basically it means to eat mostly whole foods, including some carbs with a higher glycemic index, and get exercise?

Edited by: OOLALA53 at: 10/12/2015 (08:23)
“To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats. Six years and counting! nosdiet.com/ *Be happy with this moment. This moment is your life.
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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JEANKNEE's Photo JEANKNEE Posts: 11,258
10/10/15 4:03 P

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Thanks Tricia!

This is fascinating to me. I have no doubt that I would enjoy a nutrition and physiology courses.

My mother was a diabetic. Diabetes runs rampant on that side of the family - both Type 1 & Type 2. I remember her doctors being much more concerned about her fat intake than her carb intake. What you've shared in these posts, helps me understand why.

emoticon

Jeanne
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VTRICIA's Photo VTRICIA Posts: 2,419
10/10/15 3:39 P

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Jeanknee asked me to follow up on this:
"I am confused about the last portion of that statement regarding the glycemic index. From what was shared previously in the post I can follow the logic concerning the low fat craze. But, I'm not seeing the connection with the glycemic index."

It's been established through experimentation that fructose and high fat diets both increase insulin resistance, even though they are glycemic lowering. And it's because somewhat counterintuitively, insulin resistance is not directly caused by high levels of insulin (it is also true that high glycemic carbs are not the only reason insulin increases, an excess of calories from any source will raise insulin).

More importantly, insulin resistance is a cell's defense mechanism against excess quantities of ATP. So anything that results in an imbalance of ATP will contribute to insulin resistance. It could be empty calories from carbs or fats, or it could be a sedentary lifestyle.

ATP is simply the medium we use to transfer energy in the body. It gets assembled (mostly) in the mitochondria and then gets used in a variety of cell processes, especially muscle fiber movement and in sodium pumps which are what charges our nerve cells between firings. So it's not the case that ATP is by itself bad, just like glucose is not by itself bad.

When we use an ATP, it breaks up into an ADP + P, but that P (phosphate) is the most highly charged molecule in the body. A lot of molecules are -1 or -2, and some minerals and electrolytes are +1 or +2. Because phosphate is a -3, it can do things you won't get with any other molecule, and if you tie up all your phosphate in ATP, the individual cells will start to have trouble regulating pH and performing basic energy breakdown. You can't fix it by consuming phosphate directly because it will kill you. But you can work on it by eating whole foods rather than empty calories, and the cellular components of the things you are eating will come along with the things you need to use them.

So let me know if you want to know more than that. It gets further into the mitochondria, which are essentially bacteria that live inside the cells of all multicellular organisms, and how the cells have tamed them... sort of.

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 10,933
10/10/15 11:53 A

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I will step in on the low glycemic question, although it won't be from the standpoint of the book mentioned because it's been so long since I read it, but the critiques I know of say that because the glycemic effect of individual foods are so easily affected by other foods eaten together, it becomes almost a moot point. Sure, if someone eats nearly ALL high glycemic carbss, it would make a big difference to shift to all low glycemic ones, but that, despite claims to the contrary, is NOT a "simple" change for MOST people. (I always think in terms not of the exceptions but of what is likely.) If someone is eating a variety of foods at meals and over a succession of meals, cutting out familiar favorites like potatoes, carrots, and bananas can be harder than would compensate for the benefits gained, especially if people end up overeating the low glycemic choices, which is always a possibility with the denser carbs.

“To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats. Six years and counting! nosdiet.com/ *Be happy with this moment. This moment is your life.
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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JEANKNEE's Photo JEANKNEE Posts: 11,258
10/10/15 10:47 A

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Tricia, I found your post last month regarding the cellular chemistry to be interesting.

Particularly these two statements ...

.." but by eating a lot of sodium we give the cells sugar for free." Wow! Do I know that to be true from my days as an athlete in high school! I was actually "prescribed salt" to keep myself from crashing energetically during events. Looks like my electrolyte balance must have been so far off that my cells could not grab the sugar needed to fuel the demands of my activity.

and

"The takeaway is that just like the low fat craze wound up making people fatter, it's possible to go to far with glycemic index."

I am confused about the last portion of that statement regarding the glycemic index. From what was shared previously in the post I can follow the logic concerning the low fat craze. But, I'm not seeing the connection with the glycemic index. Can you help out this poor dense person that isn't seeing it? I don't have the nutritional background or understanding of physiology that you do and I'm curious. Thanks!



Edited by: JEANKNEE at: 10/10/2015 (10:50)
Jeanne
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GABY1948's Photo GABY1948 SparkPoints: (434,244)
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10/10/15 9:26 A

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emoticon

Gaye / Michigan

"TRUST THE PROCESS!"

Living by Romans 6,7 & 8!





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MAREE1953's Photo MAREE1953 SparkPoints: (146,873)
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9/20/15 6:43 A

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Interesting thread. emoticon

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GABY1948's Photo GABY1948 SparkPoints: (434,244)
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9/18/15 8:32 A

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I'm sorry just saw this...NOT really a plan...just use sparks tracker and us the per centages there of amounts of fat, carb, protein...it has worked for me for a LONG time!

Gaye / Michigan

"TRUST THE PROCESS!"

Living by Romans 6,7 & 8!





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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 10,933
9/12/15 4:40 P

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Gaby, I couldn't find what diet plans you've chosen in your blogs.

“To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats. Six years and counting! nosdiet.com/ *Be happy with this moment. This moment is your life.
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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GABY1948's Photo GABY1948 SparkPoints: (434,244)
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9/12/15 2:29 P

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I have had this book for a long time just have not had time to read it. AFTER the Beck reboot I shall have to MAKE time! emoticon

Gaye / Michigan

"TRUST THE PROCESS!"

Living by Romans 6,7 & 8!





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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 10,933
9/11/15 7:13 P

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I read this book back when it was first published back in 2009. I see now that In Defense of Food was published a year earlier. I never read that whole book, but I imagine the warnings are similar. Then I was surprised to see Sugar Fat Salt come out in 2013 as if it was telling us something new. Not that we can't use hearing the message again.

I have a problem with the knee-jerk reaction to seeing that certain foods can be addictive. There is more than one way to deal with addiction. By trying to use more drastic strategies than are needed, I believe we undermine the success on a wide-scale basis that we could be having. The failure rate of sticking to such regimens is extremely high even though it's easier at the start. Yes, success happens long term but it's an exception.

That being said, almost everyone, heavy or not, could benefit from making these intense foods a relatively small proportion of their intake. Whether they do it overnight or over time is a separate issue.

“To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats. Six years and counting! nosdiet.com/ *Be happy with this moment. This moment is your life.
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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VTRICIA's Photo VTRICIA Posts: 2,419
9/10/15 1:43 P

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(I'm bumping this thread from way back)
I read this book for my first nutrition class as I was approaching my first year of maintenance.

Some interesting insights from the cellular chemistry of insulin resistance are that fructose (and each sucrose molecule is a glucose and a fructose), while it does not raise insulin levels, is know to increase insulin resistance. This is likely because it bypasses some of the ATP feedback enzymes involved in glycolysis.

Sodium gets around insulin resistance at the cell membrane by driving the GLUT 2 glucose (and fructose) transporters. Normally our cells use up to 1/3 of their ATP getting sodium out of the cell so it can bring more sugar in, but by eating a lot of sodium we give the cells sugar for free.

Saturated fats stiffen cell membranes, which keeps the insulin receptors from being as responsive, and all fats contribute to the Acetyl CoA needed inside mitochondria. When mitochondria operate in a high ATP environment, they make superoxides instead of H2O. Insulin resistance is the cell's response to this imbalance. It's meant to prevent more sugar getting in.

Exercise uses ATP (technically, breaks it into ADP and HPO4) which is why exercise is one of the best remedies for insulin resistance.

The takeaway is that just like the low fat craze wound up making people fatter, it's possible to go to far with glycemic index.

I have learned to appreciate basic foods, without the layers.

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MNJONES2's Photo MNJONES2 Posts: 2,035
2/19/12 9:45 P

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Thanks for all the information I am going to look it all up.

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DENISEFULLER's Photo DENISEFULLER SparkPoints: (33,938)
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2/17/12 5:01 P

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I'm number 19 on the hold list for Wheatbelly.

I started SP at 138 lbs in October 2010. My goal weight was supposed to be 125, which I reached on January 17, 2011. I have stayed at 125 (give or take a few pounds) ever since.


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,862
2/16/12 11:51 P

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I'm experimenting with even lower carb now and I have to say that all the appetite for sugary and high-carb things has gone away already. I hope this continues because if it does this is going to be very easy. I know that fat by itself is not a trigger for me at all and salt really isn't either.
My diet today was about 2 fistfuls of raw veggies, two fistful cooked broccoli and mushrooms with 1/2 cup cheese sauce (just cheddar and lots of heavy cream recipe) , lots of olive oil and some coconut oil, 1/2 cup nuts/flaxseed, one cup yoghurt, 1/2 cup berries. My daughter made some chocolate mousse just by melting dark, orange flavored chocolate and then setting it in ice water and whipping it. I was completely full after dinner so I had about one teaspoon of it with whipped cream, delicious taste but I had no need for more. That's pretty amazing for a fairly recent chocaholic. emoticon

Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 2/17/2012 (00:02)
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KRISZTA11's Photo KRISZTA11 SparkPoints: (84,804)
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2/16/12 12:26 P

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I'm halfway through the book now,
and I like it very much.

My favorite piece of information is that prehistoric human diet contained about 10% fat, and very little sugar (mostly ripe fruits) - fat and sugar was rare and precious, no wonder most of us have the instinct to like and crave them.
If we add abundance of food, and food industry goals (ie. producing food people like most at the lowest cost and highest profit) and sedentary lifestyle... that is really a high risk to overeat.

Spark Diet advice to eat lots of foods and vegetables, and to eat fat and sugar in moderation worked very well for me so far : ))

Kriszta

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-just add healthy foods gradually to stop losing
-work out every day - 30-60 minutes is enough to maintain weight and good mood
-do not try to balance overeating by extreme workouts, it is not going to work
-avoid overeating, instead of satisfaction you get stronger cravings


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4A-HEALTHY-BMI's Photo 4A-HEALTHY-BMI Posts: 6,081
2/15/12 5:43 P

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I wish I could just eat until the "full meter" goes off, or rely on volume estimates for food groups, but like Dawn, I need a food tracker. And it needs to be accurate, so I weigh everything I eat.

I mostly keep an eye on protein, sugar, fiber, fat, and sodium.

For me it's all about controlling cravings (which can lead to binges) and keeping the system functioning well.

The formula I have figured out for my own body is a kind of trial-and-error thing:

~150g of protein per day
less than 100g of sugars (and yes that includes everything in my fruits and vegetables)
~40g of fiber per day (to keep the protein moving through, LOL)
~15%-20% of calories from fat per day
less than 2000 mg of sodium per day

At at an intake range of 1500-1700 calories per day this works out to a macronutrient ratio of about 40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fats. I eat almost no starchy vegetables or grains or legumes (which are mostly starch), except on rare occasions.

Knowing what the combined starches, fats, salts, and sugars do to me mentally (i.e. trigger cravings) has really helped me eschew them. And for that I think I have Kessler to thank.

Edited by: 4A-HEALTHY-BMI at: 2/15/2012 (17:46)
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DAWNDMOORE40's Photo DAWNDMOORE40 Posts: 3,277
2/12/12 3:41 P

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I use my tracker which tells me when I am getting enough carbs, protein, fat and calories and also sodium for the day. Even if I am within my ranges, I am still hungry. I don't know maybe your right! Maybe I just don't get full. Thanks for your suggestions. emoticon

"When you get to a plateau, think of it as a landing on the stairway to your goal. And maintenance is a lifelong plateau, so a bit of "rehearsal" for maintenance isn't the worst thing in the world.

"Your past does not equal, nor does it dictate, your future.


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,862
2/12/12 1:21 P

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I've never used the fist approach but if I did it would look about like this:

2 fists veggies (often raw) or 1 fist veggies, 1 fist fruit (1/2 fist very sweet or starchy fruit)
1-2 thumbs starch/grain or 1/2 fist legumes (they are part protein but more carbs)
1-2 fists protein and fat from meat/dairy/eggs

Birgit


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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 10,933
2/12/12 11:41 A

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Some people don't have a fullness response. That can make things a little tougher. They have to rely on estimated portion sizes. I use my hands as my estimations of volume. I try to limit my starch at a meal to the volume of my two fists, sometimes less. The protein to the volume of one palm. The fat to two thumbs. Of course, these are averages. If I have lasagna out, I eat about 1 1/2 fists' size. I almost always have two fists of veggies. I don't eat snacks and have sweets only on weekends. If I'm hungrier, I can add yogurt or fruit or milk to a meal.

“To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats. Six years and counting! nosdiet.com/ *Be happy with this moment. This moment is your life.
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,862
2/12/12 11:32 A

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I have found that cutting out all processed foods is the easiest way to get rid of sodium. I ended up having too little and needed to start adding some again. I'm eating no more than about 1500 mg now
Birgit

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DAWNDMOORE40's Photo DAWNDMOORE40 Posts: 3,277
2/12/12 11:02 A

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I am still trying to get my eating patterns down. I have good days and bad days, but the important thing is getting back on track! My biggest issues right now are that I work out a lot and I eat but I don't ever seem to feel full no matter what I eat. I have always wondered if it had something to do with my gall bladder surgery I had a little over 2 years ago? I try and watch my sodium too, but the funny thing is, even though I am making healthy choices, it's easy to meet your other nutrient goals and still go over what they feel a person should have for their daily sodium intake which is on 2300 mg a day! I just keep up the postive attitude and never give up! emoticon emoticon

"When you get to a plateau, think of it as a landing on the stairway to your goal. And maintenance is a lifelong plateau, so a bit of "rehearsal" for maintenance isn't the worst thing in the world.

"Your past does not equal, nor does it dictate, your future.


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CONRADBURK's Photo CONRADBURK Posts: 488
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OOLALA53: Good advice! We can learn from your wisdom. It has taken me several months to go 100% Paleo, and I am still tweaking my eating plan to find what macronutrient ratios are best for me and what fruits and veggies to eat. Variety is the key to success. The greater variety of fruits, vegetables, meats and nuts that I eat, the happier and healthier I feel! No one wants to eat broccoli at every meal! Make your tastebuds happy and enjoy the full variety of fresh fruits, veggies, and nuts. Thanks for posting. I love to read these comments from people who are successful at maintaining.

Happy sparking!
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 10,933
2/11/12 8:10 P

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Kessler tells us that it is the combination and HIGH ratio of fat, salt, and sugar that makes us want to eat past that natural appestat, not the presence of them at all. Before the 1970's in the U.S, people used all of these in cooking, but we were slimmer as a nation. Snacks were just becoming popular and processed foods started their growth. Personally, I think these two have been the biggest culprits, along with humongous servings.

I got a burrito last weekend on Saturday night that lasted me for three meals when I cut it up and added salad or cooked veggies. I added a fruit at one meal.

I haven't had to completely cut processed foods out to get more sensitive to their flavors. I, too, had a lunch this week that included grape tomatoes, cut up carrots, and green pepper, none of which had any dressing and they were scrumptious!

If people gradually make changes, I think they stand more of a chance of having changes last. This doesn't mean some haven't been able to make drastic changes quickly, but the odds are against it.

Keep trying to find changes that fit into your life. Decrease your dense foods, increase your water rich foods, and get hungry for your meals!

“To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats. Six years and counting! nosdiet.com/ *Be happy with this moment. This moment is your life.
*Get to the next meal hungry!
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ELECTRALYTE's Photo ELECTRALYTE Posts: 10,207
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That's funny because I was just reading "Wheat Belly" today and thinking to myself that you would have to have a PhD to understand much of it!!
I have to just read slowly and hope stuff absorbs. emoticon

it's been up to me to inspire me.
~ Eric Clapton ~

"Atheism is a non-prophet
organization"
~George Carlin~

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
~Jimi Hendrix~

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality."
~John Lennon~

70 lbs. done!


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CONRADBURK's Photo CONRADBURK Posts: 488
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Thanks for your comments in this thread. I am still working on perfecting my diet and am open to other's ideas. I have several Paleo/Primal books and am carefully reading them, but the amount of information is vast! I have a PhD in organic chemistry and a lot of time to study because I am retired, but still I realize that I have a lot to learn. Thank you all for your posts and your ideas. I love Paleo/Primal eating and feel 100 percent better since adopting a strict 100% Paleo Diet. I think that I may be especially vulnerable to unhealthy foods, so I am being very careful to follow a strict 100% Paleo Diet! My thought is that most people are not like me and can get away with 80 or 85% Paleo. The question is, "How strict do you have to be to get the full health benefits?" I don't think anyone knows yet. It is possible that 80% adherence is good enough to get full health benefits, but maybe not! The more I learn, the more I realize that there is still a large unexplored area of nutrition that has yet to be explored by science. It may turn out that there is not one optimal diet for everyone. This may be because of individual genetic differences. Anyway, keep sparking and you will discover the truth!
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ELECTRALYTE,

We have lost control over our food supply. Even organics
can not be totally trusted. The brand is manipulated by the
food giants. They sometimes become contaminated with GMO's.

If you choose to rely on food "experts' for resolution, sooner
or later, another "expert" or study will come along to dispute
the previous model. Remember when eggs and butter were
to be avoided?

We can only do the best we can do in this environment. No
food or diet is perfect, no research or book the definitive answer.
Do be open to always learning about nutrition, but bring your
skeptic with you at every turn of the road. And trust that today's
'knowledge' will be overturned with new 'knowledge.'

We, each, need to work with our own bodies. Our bodies
have their own wisdom. Even the way we think about food
makes a difference as to how our bodies respond to our diet.
Get out of our heads and into our bodies. That is where
we live, day to day. Our own health is just too important
to be left to the experts of the moment. There is so much we
can do for ourselves. It is a personal journey for each of us and
that journey needs to what based on what works for us individually.


Edited by: ROSEWAND at: 2/11/2012 (18:15)
Lost sixty pounds.
Have been in maintenance
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ELECTRALYTE's Photo ELECTRALYTE Posts: 10,207
2/11/12 4:21 P

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I wish I would just shut up, but this is a very thought provoking thread!
The trouble is there are food villians. With round-up and weird seeds, fake sugar etc. etc.
We can't avoid everything. It's really difficult.
We can lose weight eating nothing but M&M's. (I've done that!)
It's about much more that weight loss, our very health is what we are trying to protect.
I keep reading about nutrition, I care about that very much. How much "poison" is ok?
I wish we didn't have to worry about our food supply, but that isn't the case. emoticon

Meat, soy, wheat, sugar, dairy, and on and on.......I read labels till my eyes water. emoticon

it's been up to me to inspire me.
~ Eric Clapton ~

"Atheism is a non-prophet
organization"
~George Carlin~

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
~Jimi Hendrix~

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality."
~John Lennon~

70 lbs. done!


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I agree with OOLALLA53.

There seems to always be a "food villian" lurking in our midst.
Is it sugar, or, or fat, or carbs, or now wheat and even grains?

Why give foods such power over our health? Eat in balance.
Eat for Joy. Eat for health. That is how we find harmony in
our diet.

For each of us that balance will be different. I, too, lost weight
easily eating some wheat, and some sugar. I continue to eat t
hese foods in maintenance. I have successfully balanced my
brain chemistry so that I am able to eat some of these foods
in moderation and in the context of a mostly low-glycemic diet
so they do not trigger insulin issues or unnatural cravings.




Lost sixty pounds.
Have been in maintenance
for five years and nine months. Goal weight 126


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,862
2/11/12 1:50 P

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The sugar is the big one for me. I have not eaten table sugar for a long time but really enjoy sugar in the sweeter fruits. I can taste the sugar in sweet onions and peppers, but barely. I guess it's a process. Occasionally a teaspoon of raw honey in my tea hits the spot. Still so much better than a soda pop by a long shot, emoticon .
With salt my doctor told me to possibly add a little more because I lose a lot when running and my blood pressure is a little low.
Concerning the fat, I eat more of it to replace carb calories and for me it does not seem to be addictive at all unless combined with sugar. So much we don't know yet as far as individual differences.
Thanks for all the encouragement. emoticon emoticon

Birgit

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CONRADBURK's Photo CONRADBURK Posts: 488
2/11/12 1:14 P

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I have not always appreciated the delicate taste of plain foods. Several years ago I experimented with my veggies by adding all sorts of highly flavored spices, but no salt. I believe that cutting out salt completely has allowed my taste buds to recover, so that I can detect and appreciate more subtle tastes of vegetables. Cutting out the sugar really sensitizes your tastebuds to sweetness. The other day I had some plain sweet green bell peppers (with just a little Vigo extra virgin olive oil) that tasted so sweet and delicious I could shout for joy! They were cooked to perfection!
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2/11/12 11:05 A

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Conrad,
have you always liked plain foods? I'm wondering if I can get there. Right now, I really don't enjoy my meals without some strong flavors. I use hot pepper sauce, garlic, onions and herbs a lot, too. It would be nice not to need them to enjoy food. I'm going to try to reduce the amounts of sugar and salt which are already in moderation gradually over time and see where it takes me. Of course it helps to keep the whole family happy, too. I agree that eating a mix of carbs, fat and protein at every meal helps. emoticon

Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 2/11/2012 (11:07)
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CONRADBURK's Photo CONRADBURK Posts: 488
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HOUNDLOVER1: I love plain food so much I don't need any recipes! I love plain vegetables, fruits, meats and nuts. Combining them all in a salad is incredibly delicious! I enjoy having some protein, fat, and a few carbs at every meal. Having a balance of all three at every meal is more satisfying, and I believe more enjoyable. It is worth remembering to enjoy everything in moderation. Too much protein at one meal is not satisfying. Too much fat is also not satisfying. Good eating!
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Coming back to the message in "The End of Overeating". I made a connection tonight. We have been trying hard to eat more raw vegetables and more vegetarian healthy dishes this week. After eating two very large raw salads and a vegetarian Chili that my daughter made for me I realized that we can make "addictive" foods mentioned in the book work for us. I realized that both the Chili and the salads had all three addictive foods from the book but in healthier forms: fat in the form of olive oil and nuts and avocado for the salads, full-fat sour cream for the Chili, sugar in the form of a small amount of molasses that my daughter added to the Chili, raisins added to one of the salads, raw honey added to the dressing of the other salad. All these dishes had some unrefined sea-salt and apple-cider vinegar in them as well. We managed to make these dishes really tasty and got in a ton of healthy ingredients. Sugar, fat and salt are addictive in larger quantities and in refined forms. But used in small quantities they can be what behaviorists call a primary reinforcer (something that we naturally like) and in this case be attached to flavors that we don't care for as much initially (like new veggies or beans we have never eaten before). After getting used to these new, healthy foods we are more likely to eat them on their own as well and it can become rewarding for us to eat them on their own. The other thing that can be used as positive reinforcement for new foods is to chop them into smaller, bite-size pieces. I've shredded or finely chopped some of the tougher to chew veggies working on the same principle mentioned in the book that foods are more appealing if we don't have too much trouble chewing them. At the same time processed food can be made a lot less appealing by thinking of it as "pre-chewed" or just like the stuff in the little jars for babies. That sounds very different from "refined" foods. I'm looking forward to finding new ways of using positive reinforcement for eating healthy foods in the next couple of days, good material for another blog. emoticon

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CAROLJEAN64's Photo CAROLJEAN64 Posts: 12,397
2/10/12 10:20 P

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There are so many great resources out there and at times it's hard to figure out what to believe. I think our own lives are the best lab ever. When our brain and body begin conversing, there can be long lasting change.

Lost 65 lbs and maintained since 2006.


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ELECTRALYTE's Photo ELECTRALYTE Posts: 10,207
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Great argument, and that is basically what I have learned from "Wheat Belly" so far.

The reason wheat belongs in that category is because it is much more nutrient dense the way it exists now than how it was 50 years ago. It gets turned into simple sugar that elevates insulin faster than table sugar (sucrose) and it's often consumed in much larger quantities. At least with sugar everyone knows to watch out.

That said (devil's advocate) emoticon Is it realistic to say "I am NEVER going to eat ANY sugar again? Can we live with that? Would be very difficult to give up sugar and wheat and whatever else for the rest of our lives.

it's been up to me to inspire me.
~ Eric Clapton ~

"Atheism is a non-prophet
organization"
~George Carlin~

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
~Jimi Hendrix~

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality."
~John Lennon~

70 lbs. done!


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,862
2/10/12 7:43 P

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I like this: "Understanding food is part of it, fearing food is not". We tend to fear what we don't understand. On the other hand there is also fear that is our body warning us of danger. That kind of fear should not be ignored. Fortunately food is not in that category because we can avoid it. I think everyone who has access to more food than needed for survival has a somewhat emotional relationship with food. Good food should be enjoyed. It's the overavailability of very nutrient dense, easy to eat foods that's the problem. The reason wheat belongs in that category is because it is much more nutrient dense the way it exists now than how it was 50 years ago. It gets turned into simple sugar that elevates insulin faster than table sugar (sucrose) and it's often consumed in much larger quantities. At least with sugar everyone knows to watch out.
Birgit

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 10,933
2/10/12 6:20 P

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I've lost 25 lbs. eating wheat in moderate portions at least several times a week. Maybe I could have lost more or faster, but it's not worth it to me. The first and foremost goal in my opinion is just to eat less in general. And yes, less processed. calorie-dense food is better just because of the issues Kessler brings up. His book was also a catalyst for me, but the suggestions for behavior change were not structured enough. I also don't believe in villifying foods; it gives them too much power. It sets it up for us to believe that we have to eat too much of them. I just find that I enjoy less intensely flavored and less processed foods in general, but I am not going to deny commercial foods completely. Yesterday, we had a lunch meeting where pizza, salad and cookies were provided. I had two small slices and some salad, no cookies. I felt satisfied and good. I enjoyed the pizza immensely, but I've trained myself not to eat bigger portions. I don't fear food out, but I also don't choose to eat out a lot. I aim at eating about the volume of my two fists of dense foods (starch, protein, fat) at any one meal. I supplement with freggies, mostly vegetables. I'm sure sometimes my calorie count is higher, sometimes lower. It all balances out. There have to be some limits; we each decide what they'll be and how to implement them. Understanding food is part of it; fearing it is not, in my opinion.

emoticon

“To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats. Six years and counting! nosdiet.com/ *Be happy with this moment. This moment is your life.
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
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2/10/12 4:41 P

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I will have to look for Wheatbelly.

I read The End of Overeating several years ago and really believe what he says. Fat, salt, and sugar are definitely not only triggers, but addictive. Excellent book and one of those you wish everyone would read and believe.

--Anne from Idaho
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2/10/12 4:14 P

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Conrad,
I agree wholeheartedly, "Wheatbelly" is more relevant for more people and if you've read neither I would put it first.

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CONRADBURK's Photo CONRADBURK Posts: 488
2/10/12 3:17 P

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I read this book a few months ago. It was interesting. A good read if you are interested in why people are overeating so much. However, I would give reading "Wheat Belly" by Dr. William Davis a higher priority on your reading list. There are so many good books being published on the benefits of eating wheat-free that I can't read them fast enough!
emoticon emoticon emoticon

Edited by: CONRADBURK at: 2/10/2012 (15:17)



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2/10/12 2:54 P

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Thanks, looking forward to getting more feedback on this. I strongly suspect that there are lots of individual differences here.
I also really enjoy bananas and will have them in my breakfast yoghurt and I have no doubt that it's the high amount of sugar/starch in them which I enjoy. Combining them with full-fat yogurt and nuts keeps me from getting hungry two hours later. I do make sure I only add either bananas or rolled oats or raisins to my breakfast, not several of them.
As far as grains there is no doubt that whole grains with their fiber keep blood-sugar spikes down but even with whole grains (other than wheat which I will never eat again) I need to mix them with fat or protein.
I'm now starting to read the third part of the book about behavior modification. This is the part the interests me the most because as an animal behavior consultant I have a lot of experience with behavior modification techniques (and not just in animals but in pet-owners as well emoticon ).
I've never consciously worked on changing my own eating behavior in any systematic way but I do see great potential here.
Birgit

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DONNAEDA's Photo DONNAEDA Posts: 30,939
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thanks for sharing this information

Donna
Brown Deer, WI
leader of Weight Watchers Support team - leader
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whole grain? emoticon
no grain? emoticon
gah!!!

it's been up to me to inspire me.
~ Eric Clapton ~

"Atheism is a non-prophet
organization"
~George Carlin~

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
~Jimi Hendrix~

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality."
~John Lennon~

70 lbs. done!


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ROSEWAND's Photo ROSEWAND SparkPoints: (148,742)
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2/10/12 1:58 P

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I read Kessler's book three years ago. It was very helpful
in many ways. It definitely kick started my weight loss
Ironically even though I almost never eat at corporate
restaurants, just the idea that they would manipulate our
brains to get us to overeat junk food motivated my rebellious
nature.

I think this is one of the most important books of the decade.
It explains how the latest brain research is used by food
companies and restaurants to increase their profits without
concern for our health or the obesity crisis that plagues
our society.

Once you understand this, you will never feel the same way
when dining out or eating highly processed foods at home.
Think of food as software that programs your neuron pathways.
When you program these pathways with healthy natural foods,
you definitely program your brain to want these foods, even
crave these foods. When you eat the way food giants want
you to eat, you will crave the foods that they want to sell you
and in way too large of portions. It is that simple.

According to the brain research, it is fat, salt, and sugar that
cause your brain to go haywire, not whole grains. Your brain
responses to these much differently due the fiber and slower
digestive process. And that has been my personal experience.
I eat whole grains without any craving or out-of-control eating.

Edited by: ROSEWAND at: 2/10/2012 (14:04)
Lost sixty pounds.
Have been in maintenance
for five years and nine months. Goal weight 126


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4A-HEALTHY-BMI's Photo 4A-HEALTHY-BMI Posts: 6,081
2/10/12 1:55 P

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That book is really good. CARRIE1948 turned me onto it.

I think it really accurately reflects some of the effect that starches have on me and explains how some of my cravings work.

I think it also kind of explains in a roundabout way why clean eating works so well for some people. Because the uberpalatable concoctions are also usually highly processed and can to lead to vicious cycles of cravings and binges.

Me? I'm capable of binging on clean raw foods until the cows come home. If they're there. The other night I had a problem with some bananas...
emoticon emoticon
emoticon
...which to be fair might have been triggered by a serving of fruitcake earlier in the day (see uberpalatable foods, above)
Bah.

And yeah, for some reason even completely whole grains will also trigger cravings later for me. I'm not going to say I'm doing any kind "paleo" thing, but seriously, I'm so much better off if I stick with a lean protein & veggies plan. Sort of like South Beach Phase One.

Edited by: 4A-HEALTHY-BMI at: 2/10/2012 (14:01)
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From BMI 53 (336 lbs) to under 30. Now aiming for less than 20% body fat.

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ELECTRALYTE's Photo ELECTRALYTE Posts: 10,207
2/10/12 1:54 P

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Sound interesting! Thanks! I have to finish Wheat Belly then I will look for it.

it's been up to me to inspire me.
~ Eric Clapton ~

"Atheism is a non-prophet
organization"
~George Carlin~

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
~Jimi Hendrix~

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality."
~John Lennon~

70 lbs. done!


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,862
2/10/12 1:42 P

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I'm half-way through reading this book and learned some new things. David Kessler uses the term "hyperpalatable foods" for foods that are processed to include a combination of sugar, fat and salt (I would add grain) that are likely to make people addicted to food. The effect of having all these foods present in combination in an easy to eat/chew form seems to be part of the problem. The book describes how the food industry intentionally makes foods addictive in this manner.
Here is a link for some quick reviews:
www.amazon.com/End-Overeating-Insati
ab
le-American-Appetite/dp/1605297852


I was curious who has read the book and what you think about it.
Birgit

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.

http://whippetsandducks.weebly.com/




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