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FANCYQTR's Photo FANCYQTR Posts: 4,943
10/16/12 10:14 P

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I raised my dogs on raw because Blue had really bad digestive issues (turned out that he could not have any grain). Can you hold the chicken neck while Mattie eats it? That is what I was told to do when I first started feeding raw. Blue would eat the entire neck in one gulp, too, so I started looking for turkey necks for him. Mostly what I fed them was chicken backs and ground beef. Then I would add cooked veggies since they say that veggies can't be digested by dogs raw. The main book that people started feeding raw from was "Give Your Dog a Bone" which you might want to check out.

There are a couple of groups on Yahoo that are basicaly all natural feeding. I think k9nutrition is the one that is very much raw feeding. I was on another list when I was feeding raw, but I think it has quit. I think if you go to Yahoo you may find quite a few groups.



Darlene


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TXDOGLOVER Posts: 45
10/15/12 7:55 A

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Dumbelle,
That is a problem a lot of dog owners have when first feeding raw meat and bones. You worry that they will swallow whole and sometimes it does happen. It makes you cringe the first time you give them something that big. Butcher shops alot of times will have raw, meaty bones (think the big knuckle bones, ham hocks type) that they can chew the meat off of and get into the cartilage part. My Greyhound used to swallow the chicken necks whole when we lived in Fl and I could get them. I switched to larger bones that he couldn't swallow whole.
I do want to add (though I'm sure you know) that you never want to give cooked bones as they can splinter, but raw is okay.
Hope this helps.

The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different- Hippocrates


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DUMBELLE's Photo DUMBELLE Posts: 14,068
10/14/12 2:58 P

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Lots of really good information from all of you. Thank you so much. Actually Birgit, I wasn't kidding about the chicken neck! She'll probably just swallow the next one whole too! What can I do? Will that do damage to her throat? Are chicken backs better? Also, when they talk about raw meaty bones, what exactly are they referring to. You must think I'm really ignorant by now after all of these questions, and you would be correct lol.
Would I need to add calcium and magnesium or anything else in making my own, or would she get everything she needs with the probiotics, krill oil and spirugreen that I give daily? Thanks all, Susan ps. I'll check out those other websites too

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 7,974
10/14/12 11:09 A

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Yes,
I've used that one. I know there is another site like it and I would usually compare between the two sites and see what the differences are. I'll have to look for the other one. You might find it by searching for dog food review.
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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LMB-ESQ's Photo LMB-ESQ Posts: 10,898
10/14/12 10:48 A

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Has anyone relied on this website? www.dogfoodadvisor.com/

It looks pretty comprehensive, but I have no idea how to judge its accuracy.

***** Laurie in Northeast Ohio *****

Fortunate are you if you love a dog, for that dog will surely love you.

Fly Free my friend.... for only in true freedom can we find our true selves

Treat stressful situations like a dog... If you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away!

Neat Link: The Rules for Being Human rules4humans.com/


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TXDOGLOVER Posts: 45
10/14/12 9:17 A

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I fed raw for awhile, but it became time consuming since I work a full time job. I live in the middle of nowhere, with no place to buy organ meats, chicken necks. My grocery only sells packaged meats, but no organs, and it's very expensive. I do read my labels and have found food that is grain free, no wheat, corn, soy with organic/human grade ingredients mostly. I do supplement with raw meat rolls that I get when we go to the "big city" 3 hrs away. I add to their food healthy things I have in the fridge. Kibble is man invented, grains are unneccesary for dogs and cats, these things are thought up by people to make money. It's also convenient.I also feed "Honest Kitchen" foods, it is a raw, dehyrated good quality human grade (they taste test it themselves) pet food that I buy online with free shipping from a pet company that offers free shipping. I HATE paying for shipping!
A good source for information is "Whole Dog Journal" and "Bark" magazines, both have lots of articles on dog food and how to make your own. There is also a book "Foods Pets Die For" by Ann N. Martin that explains the road kill, and trash that is in lower quality dog/cat foods.
I am on the board on my local humane society and am lecturing next month on how to read dog/cat food labels, what's in the food and how to make some home-made foods, trying to get people to get their pets off the garbage foods. Hope this helps.

The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different- Hippocrates


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 7,974
10/13/12 11:04 P

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Susan,
I remember that there is a controversy about deer/wild game. I think it may have to do with worms, can't remember.
As far as the chicken neck, I'd let it thaw at least partially or all in the fridge. Cutting up? You're kidding right? emoticon Then your dog will have to chew the furniture to have some chewing satisfaction. emoticon

As far as organ meats, I personally feed them about once a week. Heart is technically a muscle although often considered an organ meat so I don't necessarily count it. Some dogs don't care for organ meats like liver or kidneys and I don't make them eat it. They get some eggs or fish on those days.
Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 10/13/2012 (23:05)
You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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DUMBELLE's Photo DUMBELLE Posts: 14,068
10/13/12 7:01 P

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This dog in my user picture is my last dog, Cookie, who died from an autoimmune disease last September (funny you mentioned that), and she was totally a "run way model" as my daughter put it and was very thin. She was only 6, however when she died and had megaesophagus from pretty much birth (I didn't have a life from the time I purchased her). Mattie is a whole different story; she's a little chunky monkey, according to some in our family lol and is very stocky. I will attempt to take pictures of her, but I am totally challenged in this area.
Anyway, should I thaw, then cut up the chicken neck for her? I'm thinking that would be the right thing to do? Do you feel also, that deer is ok? There seems to be controversy regarding that too! You didn't mention the organs; when do I feed those? Susan


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 7,974
10/13/12 1:20 P

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I assume from the picture that you have an English Cocker. The amount depends on energy level (usually high in this breed) and activity level (how much you let her run and play off leash). She looks normal weight in the picture but it's a little hard to tell. You should be able to easily feel her ribs but not see them. There should be an hourglass shape to her when looking from on top. If you like post pictures, one standing from the side and one standing from on top, and I'll take a look. If you think her weight right now is good just weigh her once a week and see where the weight goes.
I would start with about the amount of 2 chicken necks twice/day or about 8-10 ounces of meat and bones twice a day. A probiotic and spirulina won't hurt but you may not need it when feeding raw and she'll help herself to some grass when her body needs it.
Cockers can have bad issues with autoimmune diseases so feeding this way should be helping her long-term health for sure.
I remember the first time I saw one of my dogs crunch down a chicken neck. It sure reminded me that there is a wolf/coyote in every dog, LOL.
Enjoy watching her relish her experience. emoticon


You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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DUMBELLE's Photo DUMBELLE Posts: 14,068
10/13/12 10:23 A

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A couple of weeks ago I purchased raw chicken necks and liver to start this new regime. I thought I would give her deer that my husband got last season as well.
I gave her one frozen chicken neck in the morning and she ate it whole. I just about died. She came from a household of several dogs and a cat, and I'm sure she thought I would take it on her lol. However, everything was fine, but I haven't tried it again since.
The pet shop said to give her a couple of chicken necks for breakfast, then muscle meat and vegies later, when I feed her in the afternoon. I'm just not sure how much muscle meat and vegies to give her later. As well, I don't know when you give the organs. I do give her a probiotic, krill oil and spirugreen tab daily. Maybe she doesn't even need that, I don't know.
I know that you said not to worry about exact measurements, but would just love to have the basics on where to start. She weighs 25 pounds. I'm a very worrisome mom I guess!!!!!!!

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 7,974
10/13/12 12:24 A

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Susan,
feel free to ask more questions. I may or may not have the answer but I'm sure someone here will. Some of it also depends on the dog, they are all different and like different things, just like people. emoticon

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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DUMBELLE's Photo DUMBELLE Posts: 14,068
10/12/12 4:37 P

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Birgit, you are amazing! Thank you, thank you and thank you for your information. It's so nice to be able to talk things through with someone who's fed raw and really believes in it. I probably will be asking you more questions, if that's alright. Susan

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 7,974
10/12/12 1:03 P

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I think the balance you mentioned is about right. Don't worry about details. Natural foods almost automatically have the right balance of nutrients and there is a good margin for error. Just think of all the dogs who survive on processed cheap food that consists almost entirely of soy, corn, rice and a little bit of animal by-products. Not a good place to be, but compared to that any raw diet is going to have a ton of nutrients. Just try some chicken parts with skin and bones and they can include necks, backs and even feet, they don't have to be organic but if you can afford pasture-fed that is always a huge plus, same for feeding beef. With beef I'd be more careful with feeding raw bones because many dogs get very obsessed with trying to chew up the bones and fracture their teeth on them. This is why I stay with ground beef and added egg shell. If you have access to wild game, rabbit, other types of poultry, lamb locally, those can be great, too. With organ meats, especially liver, it's more important that they are as naturally sourced as possible because the liver eliminates toxins from the body.
My dogs supplement their own diet by hunting in the fields for moles, mice etc. and an occasional snake. They all are very healthy and it actually reduces my food bill for meat. emoticon
There is no good reason to feed any grains to dogs at all other than saving money. Small amounts of dairy like plain yogurt, raw eggs, and small amounts of vegetables are ok but not really needed. I would look at bananas, peas etc. as a filler, mostly high in carbs which are not necessary. But they sure are better and safer than most grains.
If you are concerned about getting micronutrients (vitamins and minerals) right you can supplement those but, frankly, the best thing to do is to get some blood work done to test for mineral imbalances, really the same as in people. The most common minerals that need supplementing may be Vitamin D, magnesium, iron, selenium, zinc, but a lot depends on where the food comes from and over-supplementing can do more damage than good.
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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DUMBELLE's Photo DUMBELLE Posts: 14,068
10/12/12 9:07 A

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I sure appreciate all of your input. It's almost like a "raw" support group for me lol.
Kathy, I would love to get the name of that book if you could somehow track it down.
The Honest Kitchens has great products if you don't want to do all of the work yourself. We will use it when we travel down south for the winter because you just add water to the dehydrated mixture and wait 5 minutes. I'm trying to get her accustomed to it before Dec. I noticed big chunks of banana in it, and in the other brand (Mountain Dog food) from western Canada you see carrots, green beans and peas and it smells great!
My dilemma is that I don't know where to start in making my own. I know they recommend organic meats and vegies, and I'm all for that because I think that we humans should be eating organic as well. I have seen that Super Store in Canada has an organic meat section now (with green labels) if anyone is interested, and if you are unable to buy from a farmer in your area. It is a bit pricier.
I guess with making my own, I'm so worried about not getting balance there, because I know that is the worst thing that can happen. I was told recently that a good balance is 70% muscle meat, 20% bone, and 10% organ and you can add vegies to that as well. Would you all agree with that?
She weighs 25 pounds, so how do I start? Thank you for any advice you can give me. Susan

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 7,974
10/11/12 11:15 P

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I feed raw as much as I can afford, currently only about 1/3 of their diet, but we have 8 to feed. I feed raw chicken but mostly ground beef which is the easiest. When it's more than 1/3 of their diet I add ground egg shell for additonal calcium. I also feed canned salmon sometimes which is not raw but still has many benefits.
Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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WHATAZOO's Photo WHATAZOO Posts: 41
10/11/12 11:08 P

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I feed raw to my two dogs (110 pound Am Staff (?) and a 65 pound Plott Hound mix). I "make" my own - I use chicken quarters most of the time for the bone meal, about once a week - canned salmon or jack mackerel. I use beef, pork, turkey, deer for their boneless meal. I give them an egg every day (lately they have been pullet size - but I get them for free so I'm not complaining). I also give them fish oil and vitamin e. My Am Staff (Mack) had surgery on his knees, so he gets a gluc/chon and gluc/msm tablet 2x a day. I think it is easy - as long as I unfreeze what I need. LOL I read this yahoo group before I started (and continue to read) groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/ The owner of the group also wrote a book on K9 Nutrition. www.amazon.com/Raw-Natural-Nutrition
-D
ogs-Definitive/dp/1556439032/ref=sr_R>1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350011059&sr=8-1&ke
yw
ords=lew+olson
If you live an area larger than I live in, you might have options of joining co-ops/buying groups to cut costs.

Stephanie with Mack and Minnie

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KATHYSCOLLIES's Photo KATHYSCOLLIES Posts: 16,163
10/11/12 11:02 P

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Susan - nice to 'see' you again!

I would never use raw food with our guys, because it would preclude them from doing any kind of Pet Therapy work involving nursing homes, hospitals and schools, or demos with seniors and Girl Guides / Scouts Canada. There are by- laws in force in our area preventing it.

The issue mostly seems to revolve around different bacteria / viruses that are found in many dogs that are fed raw that can be passed on to humans. I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of this issue, because I do not feed a raw diet, so it's not a major concern to me.

We have talked it over with several vets to learn some of the pros and cons of raw vs commercial foods, and have opted to stay with as high a quality of commercial food that I can afford to feed 3 big dogs.

There is someone affiliated with OVC (U of Guelph) here in Ontario who has done years of research with commercial food preparation, as well as animal nutrition experts at the vet school and has since developed her own line of healthy recipes that you can make yourself that is nutritionally sound, with the addition of a supplement that she has also developed. I can't remember her full name, but the book and supplement are marketed under the name "Hilary's Blend". Our vets definitely recommend her, and we were very impressed with her recipes too. We chose not to use this program for a couple of reasons - many of her recipes contain beef in some form or another and both of our younger dogs have a very severe allergy to beef, plus there are times nobody feels like cooking for the humans in the house, sooooo................. I admit, we have taken the easy road on this one, but the dogs are all doing extremely well with our present regime, so we don't feel the need to change things at the moment.

I know there is someone (in the States I think) who has developed some breed specific recipes and has published a book detailing them as well as the research that went into them. My DD has a number of online friends who rave about this book, but I don't have a name for this one.

Good luck!

Kathy

A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.

Don't cry because it is over, smile because it happened!

"Aim small, miss small"
Mel Gibson, in the movie "The Patriot"


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DUMBELLE's Photo DUMBELLE Posts: 14,068
10/11/12 2:36 P

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Thanks for responding! I live in Manitoba, Canada, and buy raw dog food at a local Pet store called Mountain dog food, produced out west, but would love to start making my own.
I recently purchased a book by Dr. Karen Becker called "Dr. Becker's Real Food for Healthy Dogs & Cats" and am working through it slowly.
I understand totally your dillema with 3 dogs. I actually feed Mattie for less than a dollar a day. My last English Cocker died last September, and I was feeding her kibble bought from my vet's office, and the cost worked out to much more than that.
I think there are many good books out there besides Dr. Beckers.
I'd love to hear what else the person who has the Rotties gives her dogs and if she ever gives chicken or turkey, meaty bones, and organs. Susan

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LMB-ESQ's Photo LMB-ESQ Posts: 10,898
10/11/12 2:19 P

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I would love to feed raw. My BF has a friend who raises Rotties and feeds raw. She says their health improved drastically when she made the switch. Her feeding involves shopping weekly at the Amish market and buying fresh ground beef and adding in chopped fresh veggies. Unfortunately even at the cheap price she gets raw ground beef, it's out of my budget for three big dogs.

If anyone has recipes that won't break the bank, I'd love to hear them.

***** Laurie in Northeast Ohio *****

Fortunate are you if you love a dog, for that dog will surely love you.

Fly Free my friend.... for only in true freedom can we find our true selves

Treat stressful situations like a dog... If you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away!

Neat Link: The Rules for Being Human rules4humans.com/


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DUMBELLE's Photo DUMBELLE Posts: 14,068
10/11/12 1:40 P

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Just checked out the discussion forum and couldn't find any topic relating to "raw food". Does anyone else make or buy their dogs raw food? I know this can be a very controversial subject! Not trying to put down dry kibble in any way, honestly! We all have our own points of view, and I respect that. Anyway, would like to connect with anyone who feeds raw. Thanks, Susan

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