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JIBBIE49's Photo JIBBIE49 Posts: 55,413
3/21/12 1:07 A

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planning and knowing how to handle money to me is a HUGE part of good health, since worry about money problems can lead to illness and family break-ups. So, money planning is wise and not a disorder (unless you spend it to get a high, or out of anxiety, but they are the problem, like drinking.)

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MOONSHADOW145's Photo MOONSHADOW145 Posts: 2,193
3/19/12 6:01 P

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My doctor says BMI is supposed to measure populations, not individuals! I was so surprised to hear that. Actually that was my old doctor. I have a new one now (I moved) and haven't talked to her so much about weight issues.

It was my therapist suggesting tracking was a sign of an eating disorder. I agree that any healthy behavior can become disordered but I was so sure my tracking was just fine that I almost didn't go back to her. I'm glad I did because there was some other stuff she's been very helpful about.

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 8,327
3/4/12 3:26 P

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The BMI, which is the instrument used to determine what is overweight, etc., is a pretty good instrument, but is does not predict exactly if you will have health problems. It determines probability.

I do think it is possible to be "overweight" and possibly even "obese" and not have health problems, especially if a person is not consistently eating far beyond hunger and is eating mostly unrefined foods. Yes it is possible to be a person who carries more weight naturally.

I personally am just as much disturbed by individuals using what I consider drastic means to stay at low weight. I think that most obese people are not mean to live at the low or possibly even mid-level of their BMI normal range. I've read on Spark of people who are at the low end of BMI after losing over 100 lbs. keeping it off for years but, taking low calorie food to family holiday events because they can't trust themselves to eat a moderate meal. If a person needs to eat like that to stay at a target weight, something is wrong. Yet people like that are lauded for sticking to their guns.

I don't consider what I am doing anymore as dieting. I tracked for a long time and planned my meals ahead and learned a lot from it, but I don't do it anymore. I weigh less now than I did two years ago, and am actually continuing to lose weight. I consider what I am doing as feeding myself mostly healthy foods consistently moderately. I have a few guidelines to help me do that and I feel sane about food. Even Beck says you don't necessarily have to do all the habits forever, except savor your food, eat when hungry, and stop when full. Most people doing that will get hungry several times a day and live at a reasonable weight.n But most overweight people do need some kind of guidance and monitoring for the first few years of changel

*"The goal of weight loss is incompatible with recovering from disordered eating." Center for Clinical Interventions
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KRISTALD76's Photo KRISTALD76 SparkPoints: (9,752)
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2/27/12 9:51 A

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I'm curious what point of view those other webcasts had?

My opinion is similar here that I want to eat healthy as my diet. It is a lifestyle not a time limited issue.

I skimmed through some of the responses here but truthfully not in depth. I did see that someone questioned tracking foods being a disorder, or maybe it was planning ahead. Regardless I think both are good to do, just like eating healthy is. Yet, as with any activity, it can turn into a compulsive behavior. Just be mindful of yourself.

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CINDILP's Photo CINDILP SparkPoints: (78,439)
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2/26/12 6:54 P

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Heidi: My husband and I are taking a course to help us have better control over our finances. We are being told to set up a budget and track our spending. Is that a disorder? Or is it a disorder to be out of control and have debts? On a previous season of the biggest loser a financial adviser was talking to the contestants. She clearly told them that there was a relationship between weight and finances. People who track food are also the ones that find it easier to budget their money and stay on a budget. So, is it a disorder to track our food? Judith Beck says no. She encourages us to plan our eating. I think there is a point where tracking food can become disordered, but for most of us here, it probably hasn't reached that point.
Cindi

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SPARKARINO's Photo SPARKARINO Posts: 8,962
2/25/12 11:57 A

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I certainly believe that health comes in a variety of sizes and body shapes and that beauty can be found in diversity of all kinds. And our media does not reflect that, with its obsession on thin as beautiful and the hypocrisy of extolling thin celebrities as role models when they are in some cases resorting to drugs and eating disorders to stay that 'beautiful'!


The only difference between 'try' and 'triumph' is a little 'umph'!


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MOONSHADOW145's Photo MOONSHADOW145 Posts: 2,193
2/23/12 11:53 P

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Cindy, I've spent a lot of time thinking about the relationship between heath and weight and dieting. The reason I have some sympathy for HAES is because I know that I am still medically obese, yet extremely healthy. And my goal weight, which has been approved by my doctor, will still be in the "overweight" range. And I do believe that a lot of the diet industry and the things people do to try to fit a number of size, weight can be extremely unhealthy. So its been very interesting that a counselor I just started seeing for help with my anxiety seems to be concerned that my tracking food is disordered. I'm going to try to have some conversation about it with her next time, because it has been one of several signs that perhaps she may not be the right person for me, but your comment makes me wonder if she is bringing her own issues into this. Because I'm having a hard time seeing why she is focusing on this.

Heidi

Edited by: MOONSHADOW145 at: 2/23/2012 (23:54)
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2/19/12 2:48 P

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I've been gone all week at a training.

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. I think its important that we talk about this topic, because there are so many differing opinions out there. And its an issue that so many of us deal with in our own lives. And we do bring our own unresolved issues with us into the counseling room.

The HAES movement was represented and I have to admit that was the one I reacted the most about. I don't agree that we can be healthy even if we are in the obese range. There are so many who are here because their size was not healthy and I don't think that can just go away without taking steps to live healthy lives. Also, even if size discrimination was not an issue, there would be the health issue of the person who is morbidly obese and can't function occupationally or socially because of their size. For me, being healthy is the issue and I know I'm not healthy if I'm out of control with my eating and don't take steps to control what I eat and other factors. For me, as I lose weight and feel in control, I also start feeling healthy. And its then that other healthy attitudes are easier to do. But, again, I think we have to be careful with diets that are based on deprivation. That is where I believe that those diets are doomed for failure and add fuel to this subject. I also think that there is a connection between healthy mental health and healthy eating and exercise.
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SERIOUSLIM's Photo SERIOUSLIM Posts: 1,116
2/13/12 6:05 P

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I think that whatever diet i will be on should make me healthy. And since i am overweight and this is not healthy, i want to go to a more healthy weight. Therefore, for me it is about calories and learning to stop eating when i am full.

I do not want to use food to fill an emotional problem; so i am much more aware of my tendency to eat and am doing my best to decipher what i really want.
But overall, what is really helping me to feel that i am living my life rather than surviving,is the focus i have on goals and values.

Two books have made a huge difference in my overall approach to life and to dieting:
"In the realm of the hungry ghosts" by Gabor Mate, about addictions.a real treasure!
"the happiness trap" by Russ Harris especially the last chapters.
It is the missing link to Judith Beck's approach, or should i say, the foundation.

For the first time in my life i feel that i am applying myself, working towards a goal, rather than struggling to get pounds off.

It does not make it easy, but it makes it more meaningful.

"a relentless desire to live our best lives"
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MOONSHADOW145's Photo MOONSHADOW145 Posts: 2,193
2/13/12 12:52 A

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This is a great question Cyndi. I hope we don't replicate the tensions you experienced in your first conversation!

I have to say that, even tho I am aware of the "diet is what you eat" meaning, I have such a long and difficult personal history with weight loss diets that I don't like to think of myself as on a diet. In my experience, that's meant cycles of deprivation and loss followed by indulgence and gain. I know it doesn't mean that for everyone, but I think of my current (for the last three years) lifestyle as my new normal. When I stray too far from it for too long I don't like it: I feel bad physically and I want to get back on track. I know its just a matter of semantics, but its also a position (for myself) against a certain approach to weight loss that not only didn't work for me, but I think did a lot of physical and psychological damage. I spent alot of time and energy unlearning the "lessons" of my earlier weight-loss experiences.

I do think the diet industry in general has a lot to answer for, as many of the approaches out there are unhealthy. I think this is why there are some anti-diet folks out there. Another thing is the HAES movement, which I have some sympathy with, although I don't believe in Health literally At EVERY Size. But I do believe that its much more important to be healthy than to be thin, and that moderately overweight people who exercise regularly and eat well are probably healthier than their thinner counterparts who do neither. And that being 20-30 pounds underweight is far more dangerous medically than being 20-30 pounds overweight. Is that what the anti-diet people were saying?

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MORERED's Photo MORERED SparkPoints: (16,715)
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2/5/12 1:51 P

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Cindy, You bring up an interesting topic for discussion.

From my perspective, I always thought of diet as what you eat. So you can have a healthy one or an unhealthy one or somewhere in between. I try not to judge food as good or bad. Some are way healthier than others. I don't think it's realistic to eat a healthy diet for every single moment, every day. So, I've been retraining my thinking/eating such that I eat healthy most of the time with occasional indulgences.

That all being said, the bigger picture, for me anyway, is not the food or diet. It's really the role that food plays in my life. Somewhere along the line, food became my savior; my answer to problems; my coping mechanism. And that is the essence of what I must change. If I just change my "diet", it will be short term and not get me anywhere. in the long term. But if I change the role of food in my life, then that's where I will see real progress. If I deal with the emotional issues, instead of masking them by eating, then wow, who knows where I'll go (like the good Dr Seuss says).

Somehow dieting has become a taboo word, when I think it shouldn't be. At the end of the day, if we eat less and make better choices plus exercise more, we will see results. That to me is dieting. And dieting is just one part of the whole picture.

Edited by: MORERED at: 2/5/2012 (13:54)
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HEALTHYCHARLENE's Photo HEALTHYCHARLENE Posts: 147
2/4/12 7:40 P

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I looked up the definition of the word "diet" on Google. Here's what I found:

The kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats.

People can use the word to talk about a specific eating plan program, or we can talk about it in a more general sense as in the way we eat. It can be viewed either positively or negatively. The word itself just describes how we eat which could be healthfully or not. I've heard people say it is a negative word and "that it even has the word DIE in it." Of course they were making a point about changing behaviors for a lifetime.

That is what I want to do, same as you, IGOSSELS. I want to change my behaviors for the rest of my life, eat in a healthy way and exercise.

Warmly,
Charlene

“He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still” ~ Lao Tzu



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2/4/12 3:13 P

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I want to eat in a healthy way. I don't want to diet. I want to change my way of eating for life. Not for a short period of time. Yes I will have indulgences and I will account for them.

I love exercising and I do it for the fun and energy it provides me with. I don't exercise because I have to.

I eat mostly non-processed foods and enjoy making my own granola, peanut butter, jam and food in general. Is everything I make healthy? No but it's far healthier than a low fat store bought version.

The best day of your life is the one on which you decide your
life is your own. No apologies or excuses. No one to lean on,
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journey -- and you alone are responsible for the quality of
it. This is the day your life really begins."

New goals:
Eat Positively
Exercise daily (that one is already achieved)
Experiment with 3-5 meals a day
Avoid binge for at least 3 weeks.


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2/4/12 2:56 P

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I've been watching a webcast about dieting. That coupled with a conversation yesterday with some co-workers, has me a a little stressed.

The webcast has some professionals in psychotherapy talking about dieting. One was Judith Beck and she was wonderful! The other two take more of an anti diet perspective. The perspectives bother me personally, because I am really committed to being healthy and making healthy choices. But, in a conversation yesterday, I asked a co-worker who has recently returned to Weight Watchers about the new points system and the differences, I was accused of being negative by another coworker that I was being negative. Listening to the webcast today and thinking about it, I have a lot of emotions.

So, rather that ruminate, I decided to get some conversation going with people who also are on this journey about what you think? How do you view your journey to be healthier? And where does dieting figure in for you?
Cindi

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