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COACHPENNY's Photo COACHPENNY Posts: 10,392
7/26/10 11:53 A

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I found Bob's comments about "fomenting unrest" among us and his fantasy that he had "had sown dissension" pretty amusing as well. Only an egotist could possibly mistake a united front for dissension and unrest.

Something for all of us but especially for Bob...

A quote from Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

"When we let freedom ring,
when we let it ring
from every village and every hamlet,
from every state and every city,
we will be able to speed up that day
when all of God's children,
black men and white men,
Jews and Gentiles,
Protestants and Catholics,
will be able to join hands and
sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual,
'Free at last! Free at last!
Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!'"







“A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones who need the advice.”

Bill Cosby


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BRIDIE5 Posts: 8,121
7/26/10 8:57 A

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LMAO..no dissention, Bob..it's unanimous..we're all in agreement about what your private agenda is, but thanks for the entertainment. emoticon

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CARLI_MAE's Photo CARLI_MAE SparkPoints: (54,703)
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7/26/10 1:51 A

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Subject: What About Bob?

Allegation #1 that our President is a Kenyan & using a Chicago bank to funnel money to Kenya ...

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan
native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.
"Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.” -- source: Washington Post; also available at ...
fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthc
er
tificate


Birthers keep insisting that the HI birth certificate is not good enough because it's not the handwritten form a doctor or midwife fills out at the hospital. The reality is that it's been years since many States stopped keeping the originals and went instead to computerized records. Here in IL, for example, I needed to obtain my nephew's birth certificate for my brother who'd moved his family to CO ... nephew was born in 1964, and it was now 1980. I was given the exact same type of document as that shown for Pres. Obama. When I asked what happened to the other form with the cute little footprint, etc., they laughed and said "this is now the official State record, accepted nationwide for all legal purposes." This is what the State of HI has been telling the press over, and over, and ... sigh ...

Shore Bank is a small bank with community branches on the South side of the city, mainly along South Lake Shore Drive. I know this because I live here!

Allegations that the bank has any international, let alone Kenyan ties are completely false. They do provide some community outreach services via Black Christian churches in the area ... nope, no Muslim connections whatsoever.

Allegation #2 -- the President's academic records/transcripts are sealed, but Palin's high school record is available ...

The photo of Sarah Palin's h.s. graduation form and SAT scores have been found by expert typographers to be most likely fakes;

AND, more importantly, just about ALL academic records are sealed by reason of the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) (20 U.S.C. § 1232g; 34 CFR Part 99) is a Federal law that protects the privacy of student education records. The law applies to all schools that receive funds under an applicable program of the U.S. Department of Education.

www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/fer
pa
/index.html


I pulled this up because it occurred to me that whenever I've been asked for my academic transcripts by a prospective employer, and any appended references and miscellaneous information, I had to personally request they be released in writing to the schools, colleges, and universities. Once you've built up a few years of job experience, fewer and fewer employers ask for this information except in academia; and they are similarly bound by the law cited above, as well as other confidentiality policies.

If you look for basic information on public figures and elected officials, this is basically what you find:

McCain College Background :
United States Naval Academy - class rank 893 out of 898 - 99% did better than him. (Makes GWB look like a genius, huh? And let's not forget the guy crashed 5 military planes in his less than exemplary military service, and, according to several army medics/surgeons I know who were in 'Nam ... chances are the guy is seriously messed up mentally, and in constant chronic pain from a combination of his service and being a POW. Who knows how many drugs he's on?)

Palin College Background:

Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in journalism

Obama College Background :

Occidental College - two years.
Columbia University - B.A. political science with a specialization in international relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) magna cum laude

Biden College Background :

University of Delaware - B.A. in history and B.A. in political science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

IMO, the public doesn't need to know any more than this, but you can be sure the

Federal Government has every last detail. No one's made such a fuss over any other President we've had, so tell me again how it's not about racism???

Carli -- sick and tired of political witch hunts!
H.S. Grad top 5% of class of 798
B.A. Brit. Lit.; Secondary Ed.; Minor French; Teach.Cert. 6-12
MAEd. Guidance & Counseling
MLS w/Spl. Cert. K-12, Grad. CumLaude (that's an A- avg)

Edited by: CARLI_MAE at: 7/26/2010 (02:13)
♫ Carli

“Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells one it is right.” ~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


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7/26/10 1:21 A

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I wouldn't say Bob was "formenting unrest" or "had sown dissension" - I'm sorry but that makes me laugh! I'm more than reasonably sure those words are Bob's and not Ladyirish's - none of us were uneasy, at least those of us posting. I just decided not to waste my time because Popeye's intention was so clearly NOT to look for a way to bridge a gap.

I hope he joins the Soapbox or whatever the name is of the other team - current events or something.

By the way - though I'm speaking to the choir here to the rest of you - there is nothing in the Quar'an about women needing to be veiled. Fears. Fears. Fears.

As I've said, I choose hope over fear. And, Bob, my profile image wasn't for you - it's a reaction to the "news" station that puts out anything but news - assassination of Sherrod was just the latest.

Whenever possible, be kind. It's always possible.
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COACHPENNY's Photo COACHPENNY Posts: 10,392
7/26/10 12:55 A

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Jeez Bob, tell us what you really think....

Just more reasons to think that Bob was on a mission from his God. Preach to the heathen liberals. Save us from ourselves. Oh seriously, did Bob really think he was going to find a bunch on mindless cattle to herd along?

"My intention was to learn something from y’all that would help bridge the gap between left and right." No, not really convincing. However, I am convinced that Bob was trying teach us the error of our ways.
Problem is that words without a point of reference, without truth, without proof are just someone's opinion not fact.

I would encourage Bob to join or form a team that suits his purpose, rather than trying to manipulate an existing team to mirror his beliefs.




“A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones who need the advice.”

Bill Cosby


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POPEYETHETURTLE's Photo POPEYETHETURTLE SparkPoints: (218,252)
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7/25/10 7:32 P

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I received a Spark Mail from Lady Irish today. The gist was that I was fomenting unrest in the Liberal team. I hadn’t seen that, but I will bow out.

After reading the comments following my last post, I knew exactly what she meant. The vitriol almost seemed to burn holes in my computer monitor.

If I have sown any dissension among you, regardless of how you feel, I apologize. That was not my intention. My intention was to learn something from y’all that would help bridge the gap between left and right. You complain because you didn’t understand my agenda, and to prove I had some nefarious scheme going, you followed my comments – shocked that I would say something when I was in another forum, freely expressing my beliefs. Shocked to then find out I was politely restraining myself when speaking to this team.

Did it dawn on you to compare what you said on your other threads and what you said on this one? I was invited to join another of your threads, and when I did, reading/’hearing’ what was said, I didn’t make a single comment.

Carli, your comment about Exxon Mobile was used as an example when you were plainly speaking about personal taxes. I think that would best be addressed in a topic about corporate taxes.

You paid approximately 5% tax on an estate of $220,000 that had already been taxed before. Losing that $10,000 was just an “aw, shucks”? It’s difficult for me to believe that was your exact opinion.

You denigrate President Bush’s attempts to do something to help jump-start the economy – which from my viewpoint while shopping in Wal-Mart, was a pretty much “found money”, spend it while we have it reaction. Too little, but it didn’t add a trillion dollars to the National Debt, either.

Unemployment? 37,000 new applicants for unemployment filed last week – not something the administration had expected, was it?

The worry about a conspiracy taking over the country and basically ignoring the Constitution? Yep. What would you call it when the Administration “tells you” that “you will buy a product”? A product more than 50% of the citizens of the United States didn’t want and still don’t want to be forced into taking. A program that will require you to report your BMI? A program that requires its citizens to be counseled about the benefits of euthanasia after a certain age? Isn’t that tantamount to starting a “state religion”? And isn’t it a gross violation of the Constitution? The ability to require citizens to purchase something is not one of those “allowable actions” given the federal government.

The real conspiracy that bothers me that none of those in the liberal camp deign to consider is the destruction of our country by Muslims. If you would (1) read the Koran, and (2) study history, you would find that from its inception, Islam has been about conquering the world and subjecting everyone to Sharia law. If someone refuses to bow their head, that’s easy, stick it on a spike as a warning to others.

Can any of you ladies really accept the restrictions that would be placed on you if Sharia law was the law of the land?

For those of you who contend that Islam is a peaceful religion, I refer you back to the Koran. Not one time in that book does it mention mercy to the “heathen”. Where they first recognized Jews and Christians as “Brothers of the book”, that was repudiated afteer the pedophile Mohammed died.

Mohammed, quoting from Islamic history, as the “Prophet of Death, I enjoy watching my enemies die”.

The many names they have for God? Not a single one of them is Mercy or Love – relating to how you treat others.

Am I concerned about Barack Obama? Yes I am. A person who works to block out his past is suspicious to me. If he had been in the Witness Protection program he’s at least have a fundamental background, even if it was simply a construction of a federal agency. Do you know of any other politician who has done something so guilty looking? What would you say if a Republican candidate had done the same thing? As a Republican, I would STILL be suspicious.

Ladies, I can say that this has been interesting.

Oh, MorrisDatter, is your new avatar something you came up with for a final good-bye? Don’t I remember something about conservatives dropping back to uneducated vulgarity?


emoticon wink emoticon wink

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7/24/10 10:48 P

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LOL ... Steph prompted me to take a peak at the Conservative team's general discussion, which pretty much made me decide I was wasting my time as well. I'd already sort of become skeptical when Bob didn't reply to my response on funding of abortions (edited for accuracy because I accidentally cited the Volker rule rather than the Hyde ammendment)

I joined this team mainly to converse with like minded folks, not to revisit my days on hs & college debate teams ...

Carli signing o'er & out as well ... emoticon

♫ Carli

“Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells one it is right.” ~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


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COACHPENNY's Photo COACHPENNY Posts: 10,392
7/24/10 10:33 P

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Carli, I reprinted that portion of the link (it was longer than that) for Bob's benefit. I'm not sure he gets why we use links and references. Just cherry picking information and making misleading and/or incomplete statements doesn't cut it. I agree, our defense spending abroad always eats up so much that there is never enough to address our domestic needs.

Steph, that's pretty much what I said to LadyIrish...What's Popeye's agenda? I think you are right.....why waste the time? He's joined our team for the wrong reasons.

My vote....Bob GO HOME.



“A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones who need the advice.”

Bill Cosby


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7/24/10 7:14 P

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Bob, I thought I'd be fair and tell you that I am not going to reply to your threads any longer.

When I look at what you post in the Con/Rep team, I end up disgusted. So, "why," you ask, "do you, Stephanie, look to see what Popeyte is posting in that team?" Because I wonder what your agenda is. Because in another thread you said you didn't believe any of that nazi/socialist stuff - right. Some very clear posts by you to the contrary - and it angers me to see you agreeing to the fears of your team members - fears that the country is being run by a covert Muslim who is bringing us to the edge of destruction with socialsim/communism.

I just am not going to waste my time. Your hidden agenda over here is clear - and I have no need or desire to discuss with someone living in and whipping up the fear that you clearly do.

over 'n out.
emoticon

Whenever possible, be kind. It's always possible.
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7/24/10 4:53 P

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Thanks, Steph, that was the jobs chart I had in mind. There's also one that shows the deficits under presidents going back to Roosevelt or earlier someplace. The largest deficits in our lives were created and grown under REPUBLICAN presidents! (Of course, abscense of a deficit doesn't mean we don't still have debt). Oh, but don't forget that one year under Bush they gave us all a $300 or $600 refund, regardless of whether you paid taxes or not (but you had to have filed, of course to get it) ... they made a big deal out of it and how much it was going to help the economy and all ... what a joke! I got the $300 which in this area, was about what folks were paying for an RTA pass to get downtown to work; or enough to buy groceries once or twice. Everyone I asked, except for folks living paycheck to paycheck, just stuck it in their savings account ... yep, big economic lift alright -- yeah, "you betcha, wink, wink" emoticon Of course a lot of the poorest folks didn't even know to file in order to get that little bit, because, well ... it wasn't very well publicized, and most folks who didn't have to pay taxes figured it was impossible that they could get a "refund" without paying any taxes.

Penny, you didn't have to reprint everything from your link ... I found it & the chart was perfectly clear. I think Barney Frank and Ron Paul are onto something with this thing they're working on to cut the defense budget. We have way too many troops all over the world where they're not needed and are just serving to allow other countries to save on their own defense costs by riding on our backs. Defense, going back at least to LBJ has been 2/3 of the budget. And we wonder why we have no money for anything else ...

And I believe it was during Ike's administration that the wealthiest 5-10% were taxed at the rate of 80%. And the so-called death tax ... ha! My folks died just before they started putting the cuts into effect, and I ended up shelling out around $10,000 on an estate worth about $220,000 ... but I just shrugged and said, "well, they might not have had anything left" and was thankful for what was there.

What really gets me was that the initial law, passed during the Clinton years, was supposed to be capped at 1.5 million. Bush extended it even further, which is outrageous, especially when you have assets in an estate which would ordinarily be subject to capital gains, such as tax deferred investments on which no tax has yet been paid by the deceased.

Edited by: CARLI_MAE at: 7/24/2010 (17:07)
♫ Carli

“Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells one it is right.” ~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


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COACHPENNY's Photo COACHPENNY Posts: 10,392
7/24/10 3:24 P

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"All of the whining during the Bush years was coming from the opposite side, as is standard in politics and really shouldn't be a surprise to any of us."

Wow, an extremely original excuse, which of course, makes the conservative argument against President Obama's policies invalid. You only whine if the "other side" is winning. Otherwise, get away with all that you can, while you can.

"Except, of course, those of us with "thick heads"."

Were you born that way or just stubborn?


******From the tax foundation outline******

******Outline of Major Tax Law Provisions in 2011 under Multiple Scenarios

Tax Parameter

Pre-Bush Tax Policy (a)

Bush Tax Policy (b)

Tax Policy Under Pres. Obama's Proposed Budget (c)

Ordinary Taxable Income Rates

a) 15%, 28%, 31%, 36%, 39.6%

b) 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33%, 35%

c) 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 36%, 39.6%


Estate Tax Exemption

a) $1 million

b) N/A

c) $3.5 million

Estate Tax Rate

a) 55%

b) N/A

c) 45%

*******

www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/2611
8.
html


Edited by: COACHPENNY at: 7/24/2010 (15:25)


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Bill Cosby


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7/24/10 7:24 A

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What I don't understand is conservatives fighting to protect the rich. I know y'all aren't all wealthy. Obama's tax system is, for one thing, moving the burden from the poor and lessening the burden from the middle class. But instead, the right wing protests and fights for no estate tax, for example. If an estate is worth under 3.5 million, its exempt! Over, yes, it's taxed.

I found several charts about job loss during the worsening Bush years comparing the job creation Obama is achieving. Even in "Business Insider" which I have the feeling you would believe over anything else, they cannot come up with an argument of any substance, so they claim it's "open to interpretation" - well, I know if you're a conservative "open to interpretation" is no doubt good enough - since you seem to live on another planet and believe that Nancy Pelosi is evil and full of lies, as is the rest of the administration. The numbers are all there in the Bureau of Labor Statistics under the DOL. No interpretation is necesary - they speak loudly and clearly for themselves. Here's Business Insider:

www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the
-d
ay-jobs-lost-in-the-bush-and-obama-aR>dministration-2010-2


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7/23/10 11:51 P

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I started to respond to your original post, Bob ... I forget when ... got as far as the last statement in the article, wrote ""Bush cut taxes for everyone who paid them, and the cuts helped the nation recover from a recession and the worst stock-market crash since 1929."

Bullpucky!

Then looked at Penny's citations, and ran out of time to find all the exact numbers, but Bush's tax cuts, just like Reagan's before him created massive deficits, and didn't result in much of any job creation. In fact, you can find charts that show that as of the end of GWB's term we were losing an increasing number of jobs, whereas we've been at least gaining some in these first months of Obama's term. The greatest job creation we've had over the last 3 administrations (not including this one since it's only 1.5 yrs) was during the Clinton years -- some 23 million if I recall.

Part of the stimulus bill passed under Obama DID include some tax cuts for the middle class.

Since the GOP delayed extension of unemployment benefits 4 times (a matter of .3% of the Federal buget) because they said "it had to be paid for" whereas tax cuts -- "oh no, we don't have to pay for that ... they pay for themselves!"

They'd BETTER let those tax cuts lapse & you can bet I'll be on all my reps to do just that, in case they should go wobbly on us again.

Exxon Mobile, the highest grossing oil company, which made some 45 billion in 2009 profits, paid $0.00 taxes. Bah!!!

Storm warnings here ... got to go ... I'll let Steph & Penny snatch the stats for me ... s/b over at CBO, I'd think.

♫ Carli

“Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells one it is right.” ~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


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7/23/10 11:10 P

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I understand about the government piling up debt. If I remember correctly, at the beginning of the Obama administration it was around a trillion dollars.

Two years into his presidency, it stands near two trillion and projected to increase every year by the GAO, based on their calculations from figures furnished by the administration. When it comes to the actual cost to the taxpayer, the GAO is usually closer than either the Democrats or the Republicans.

Now the American Power Act, our personal version of Cap & Trade, co-sponsored by Independent(?) Lieberman and Democrat Kerry is planned to "tax", require us to pay more for energy, then give rebates, spread equally among the states, not what they paid in to it, so the middle of the country is hardest hit. This has been calculated to cost the taxpayers a trillion dollars and rebate back 690 billion, keeping 31% of the taxes for government use and to "help pay down the deficit".

That's a lot of money shuffling around for the government to get an extra 310 billion from the taxpayers.

If no bill was passed, going to the taxpayers for the extra 310 billion would be a way to further aggravate we folk, including all of the centrists.

All of the whining during the Bush years was coming from the opposite side, as is standard in politics and really shouldn't be a surprise to any of us.

Except, of course, those of us with "thick heads".

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7/23/10 12:19 P

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I'll say it again just for good measure.....where was all the whining when Bush and Company were cutting taxes and spending the surplus. Conservatives in a coma?

Take a look at at the comparison links I posted below. Some things are reverting back to pre-Bush some aren't changing much at all.

What I find even more interesting is that as middle class taxpayers, we did not find any relief with all these "fabulous" tax cuts. In fact, our level of comfort with our finances was much better during the Clinton years.



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7/23/10 8:08 A

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Bush...the Zombie Years!!!!

"You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." -Margaret Thatcher

"You don't drown by falling in the water. You drown by staying there." -Unknown

"If you can solve your problem, then what is the need of worrying? If you cannot solve it, then what is the use of worrying?"-Shantideva


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7/23/10 5:05 A

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How quickly and easily they forget or misunderstand. Good thing we're here to try to help them get the basics through their thick skulls...

The government, Bob, has been piling up major debt since the end of the Clinton era. Bush's tax cuts brought with them hugely HUGELY increased federal debt. Bush's Folly was a solid and proven failure - and the deficit needs to be reduced.

Let's see, how can the deficit be reduced... borrrowing money from China? Oh, no, that brings about more debt.

The policies of that failed decade need to be wiped out. It's a shame we can't just wipe Bush out of our memory - but then we couldn't learn from his mistakes. So instead, we need to wipe out the ill-advised and ruinous tax cuts.

Edited by: MORRISDATTER at: 7/23/2010 (08:37)
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7/23/10 12:45 A

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The Tax Foundation
May 26, 2010

"Outline of Major Tax Law Provisions in 2011 under Multiple Scenarios"
www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/2611
8.
html


"Detailed Breakdown of Tax Brackets"
www.taxfoundation.org/publications/s
ho
w/26121.html




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Bill Cosby


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7/22/10 11:31 P

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This was an eye opening ouch.

Taxes that are called taxes; then things that look, smell, walk like and smell like taxes but are called something else.

www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Ar
ti
cle.aspx?id=541131


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