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CAKKIEREE's Photo CAKKIEREE Posts: 104
9/14/12 2:08 P

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The answers above are all quite good, the only other thing I can think to add is this great article by Chris Kresser about the Paleo Template. We all have to figure out which grey area foods that are common allergens (namely, dairy) are ok for us. Even if a food is "Paleo" if you have an individual allergy (eggs, nuts), you will not include it in your "template." I personally include dairy because it really doesn't bother me. I learned of Paleo before Primal and that some Paleo folks ate dairy, so I called my diet Paleo...it's sort of jargon-y.

http://chriskresser.com/beyond-paleo-mov
ing-from-a-paleo-diet-to-a-paleo-template

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WYOJEN95 Posts: 85
9/13/12 11:06 A

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I am certainly lower carb...try to keep things about 30%, which is still a lot more than 100g a day based on 1600-1700 total cals a day and a way lot more than adkins 20net a day. I am trying to bust a weight loss plateau I've been on for a long time. And it seems to actually be working.

All the links are very informative, thanks!!

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RUKIDDINGME123's Photo RUKIDDINGME123 SparkPoints: (30,455)
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9/13/12 4:28 A

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WOW! Thank you all so much for all the great advise and information.

EGALITAIRE & _RAMONA I can't thank you enough for all the information you have provided and I really look forward to reading all the links.

I'm thrilled I decided to post here what a great group you have!

Thank you again,
Lisa

*~*Lisa*~*

"Genes load the gun and lifestyle pulls the trigger"

_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 5,534
9/12/12 10:27 P

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Good points EGALITAIRE, and I agree with you. This is why:

Can You Be an Endurance Athlete and Primal?
www.marksdailyapple.com/jonas-coltin
g/
#axzz24r9qFQwU


How to Fuel Ultra-Distances: The World’s Toughest Mudder
www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-fuel-
ul
tra-distances-the-worlds-toughest-muR>dder/#axzz24r9QRSK4


Multi-Sport Athlete, Greg Parham Talks About
The Paleo Diet For Performance
www.livingpaleo.com/guest/Greg-Parha
m-
Talks-About-The-Paleo-Diet-For-PerfoR>rmance.html


How to Fuel a Marathon While Primal
www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-fuel-
a-
marathon/#axzz26JSGMHQl


Our whole family is fat adapted, and energy and endurance have ceased to be a problem around here, LOL!


...And here are some articles on fat adaptation:

What Does It Mean to Be Fat-Adapted?
www.marksdailyapple.com/what-does-it
-m
ean-to-be-fat-adapted/#axzz22H0HXngl


What Does It Mean to Be Fat-Adapted? – Part 2: Q&A
www.marksdailyapple.com/what-does-it
-m
ean-to-be-fat-adapted-part-2-qa/#ixzR>z22KB3rF5T


Metabolism and Ketosis
www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-
an
d-ketosis/metabolism-and-ketosis/

This article explains really well why/how healthy fat makes the transition to Paleo so much easier... and how coconut oil is a unique fat.

Guest Post by Modern Forager: The Tropical Oils
www.marksdailyapple.com/guest-post-b
y-
modern-forager-the-tropical-oils/#axR>zz24rEOr04v







Edited by: _RAMONA at: 10/6/2012 (14:27)

'An Apple A Day' keeps the doctor away...
www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-bluep
rint-101/#axzz28X8ooJ1H



NOTE: My weight tracker is NOT a truthful representation of my weight. Instead, I am using it as a tool to help me visualize my goal as though it's already been achieved!

www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=2108522


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EGALITAIRE's Photo EGALITAIRE SparkPoints: (30,785)
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9/12/12 8:36 P

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In part this still comes back to definitions - what is the definition of "low-carb". However, whether you are talking less than 50 or just less than SAD, the paradigm that carbs are necessary for peak athletic performance is being increasingly challenged.

As part of his competitive hockey aspirations my son worked with a trainer this summer. The trainer has worked with professional athletes (NHL players) and has fashioned his program after what those athletes eat - and I can tell you, the %age of carbs is very low. It is essentially a Primal-style diet. And these are professional athletes in a sport that requires endurance.

I also read an article a couple of weeks ago that included an interview of a researcher who was studying ultra-marathon athletes (100 mile races). The essence of the story is that this years' winner was on a "low-carb" diet - the details were not shared but will be published in a peer reviewed journal in the future.

Which correlates with my own experience of increased endurance after being Primal for a number of months.

So, I think it really depends on the definition of "low-carb", but I think what is missing in some of the CW is the concept of being "fat-adapted". Once your body has adapted, performance with fewer carbs actually seems to go up.

At least that's the way I see it.





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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 5,534
9/12/12 6:05 P

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Hi, WYOJEN95!

Anyone who is strict Paleo/Primal eats much lower carb (including Paleo athletes) than anyone eating SAD (Standard American Diet according to the my plate/food pyramid which recommends 300 grams of carbs at the upper limit) at 50 - 150 grams of carbs per day (considered ideal carbs). Most Paleo/Primal eaters consider the SAD diet to be a higher-than-is-good-for-you carb diet, as opposed to Paleo/Primal being 'low-carb'.

Having said that, if you go look at the links to the comparison chart below, you'll see what the two do/don't have in common. EGALITAIRE also gave a really good summation at the beginning of this thread.

Paleo/Primal/Atkins Comparison Chart
primalpalette.com/post/3572403538/ph
ot
o-paleo-atikins-primal


You also get a really clear picture of how carbs figure into Primal eating (which is typically a bit higher carb than is Paleo) here:
www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-succe
ed
-with-the-primal-blueprint/#axzz25oAR>7g8EU



Basically, it really is up to you how much carb you want to eat... if you do fine and are able to maintain your weight at a desireable place eating higher carb, then you should continue to do so! :) The real benefit to lower carb is that you become fat adapted for fuel/energy (the usual goal of Paleo/Primal), rather than carb adapted, and many athletes are now discovering the benfits of doing so! Mark's Daily Apple has a lot of information regarding fat adaptation and fueling for athletes.


Mark's Daily Apple Archives:
www.marksdailyapple.com/archives/#ax
zz
26IOZaZOf




Edited by: _RAMONA at: 9/12/2012 (18:11)

'An Apple A Day' keeps the doctor away...
www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-bluep
rint-101/#axzz28X8ooJ1H



NOTE: My weight tracker is NOT a truthful representation of my weight. Instead, I am using it as a tool to help me visualize my goal as though it's already been achieved!

www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=2108522


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WYOJEN95 Posts: 85
9/12/12 5:50 P

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I am new to paleo/primal as well. But my understanding was that it it NOT a low carb diet. You can make it low carb, but that low carb is not even recommended if you are semi athletic.

I'm doing it purely for the allergy factors. And two weeks into my 30 days my asthma is amazingly better. I have been eating (or trying to) eat whole foods for a long time now because I had long term primary infertility. But it was suggested to me to try paleo for allergy elimination purposes.

I think it is one of those things you can take to whatever extreme you choose. I personally am okay with eating potatoes (sweet/yam preferable) palantines and fruit.

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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 5,534
9/12/12 2:09 P

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LOL! I hear you SIMPLEMAW... you're right... what the three nutritional models have in common is GREATER than is how they differ!

I think the diagram is such just so the explanations can be cleary written into the circle where they belong and in the long run reduce confusion... really, it's a pretty standard Venn Diagram.


'An Apple A Day' keeps the doctor away...
www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-bluep
rint-101/#axzz28X8ooJ1H



NOTE: My weight tracker is NOT a truthful representation of my weight. Instead, I am using it as a tool to help me visualize my goal as though it's already been achieved!

www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=2108522


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SIMPLEMAW Posts: 4,136
9/12/12 2:02 P

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I have one complaint about the Primal/Paleo/Atkins diagram. Looking at it, you'd think that most foods were forbidden on all three diets. Did you see how tiny the bit that they all allow is? After all, it's only meat and veggies and fat and nuts and seeds and fruit! Or, as the diagram says, meat and fish and veg. That's still a lot! The three circles should come close to overlapping, with only small areas to represent the things that are not allowed.

Edited by: SIMPLEMAW at: 9/12/2012 (14:03)
HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,345
9/12/12 12:40 P

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What a great thread! Maybe I can finally get it straight which is which after I've been talking about it so much. emoticon emoticon

Birgit

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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_RAMONA's Photo _RAMONA Posts: 5,534
9/12/12 12:24 P

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Hi, and welcome!

Though everything has been pretty much covered, if you're a visual sort of person, I found these diagrams helpful:

Paleo/Primal/Atkins Comparison Chart
primalpalette.com/post/3572403538/ph
ot
o-paleo-atikins-primal



Paleo Diet Flow Chart
colebradburn.com/wp-content/uploads/
20
12/01/paleoflowchart.pdf



Is it Paleo?
coconutoilcooking.com/coconut-oil-bl
og
-posts/the-paleo-diet-coconut-oil/



...and if you're reading the Primal Blueprint, consider joining another team in addition to this one: Living Primal in a Modern World! You can participate or lurk as the spirit moves you!

www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
nd
ividual.asp?gid=53672


Edited by: _RAMONA at: 9/12/2012 (18:06)

'An Apple A Day' keeps the doctor away...
www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-bluep
rint-101/#axzz28X8ooJ1H



NOTE: My weight tracker is NOT a truthful representation of my weight. Instead, I am using it as a tool to help me visualize my goal as though it's already been achieved!

www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_jo
urnal_individual.asp?blog_id=2108522


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DAKOTA106's Photo DAKOTA106 SparkPoints: (10,634)
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9/12/12 11:21 A

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Wow well said guys! I have just re read Mark Sisson's book and am pretty much using that as a day to day guide. I do not do any rice or taters but I may add a little ff cheese once in a while but not often. Day 2 and feeling great after 1 day and blood sugar was almost normal! Now I've left the book for DH to read,would love to get him on board and off his blood pressure and choles. meds. but easier said than done. Grilled great steaks last night with roasted veggies and a salad.More than enough food for anyone. So about a hald hour later he says I'm gonna have a few pretzels. I asked if he was really hungry or just intended to pick for no reason,his answer was I just want something sweet or salty!! I'm just gonna do this for me if he wants to fine the right food is here if not he can stay fat and pay for those meds!! LOL. O.k. I know that's not nice but very frustrating!! Diane

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SIMPLEMAW Posts: 4,136
9/12/12 10:04 A

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What Egalitaire just said, ever so much better than I could!

First, if you are even just interested in the idea of Paleo and/or Primal, you should definitely be here! Lurk if you like, or ask questions, or whatever you want to do.

Second, as Egalitaire said, there doesn't seem to be a single definition of either Paleo or Primal, so comparing them is next to impossible. I tend to think of them as being on a continuum, with Paleo being stricter than Primal, with strict Primal butting up against laxer Paleo.

EGALITAIRE's Photo EGALITAIRE SparkPoints: (30,785)
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9/12/12 9:08 A

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HI RUKIDDINGME,

Welcome to the team - lurking is allowed.

Well, seeing as you asked, what is the difference, you actually first have to define what is Paleo. I am an admitted information junkie and tend to over-research. I have come to the conclusion that Paleo is a framework - depending on what author, or blogger, you are reading, they will have different approaches. So even defining Paleo can be a challenge.

Seems the same goes for Primal - every author has their own take - are legumes OK, just sometimes, never, what about dairy, is it OK if it is raw and grass-fed, and on and on and on.

I felt like I was chasing my tail trying to find a definition of what I was doing - then it occurred to me - why do I care about defining it. My goal is not to be able to describe what I do in one word, my goal is better health.

So I just started by taking what I thought was the most reasonable concepts from the authors, and from others here on SP and incorporating them into my plan. Most of it has worked, some hasn't, I just keep tweaking. My goal is "ever better" and I have given up on labels.

The other thing I have noticed is that it seems everyone is different. Our physiology, our experience, our history are all factors in what works, so what works for me, may not work for anyone else. Ramona is a frequent contributor on this board and she has done a lot research on how the genders seem to respond differently to this nutritional plan.

And on and on it goes - we are an experiment of one.

So my encouragement is to use the framework and figure out what works for you and what doesn't. I would encourage you to do some of the things for at least 21 days (Mark Sisson) or maybe 30 (Whole30) to find out. A little here and a little there is better than not changing at all, but probably won't give you the data about your body that would be useful to deciding what to do long-term.

Here's some of the framework as I understand it.

Eat clean - whole foods when possible, grass-fed beef and dairy, wild-caught salmon, organic or ABF chicken.

Fat is not bad, including sat fat(trans-fat is a frankenfood from which you should run). Processed foods (this includes wheat and grains) and sugars are to be avoided. As are legumes and other grains.

What to eat - lots of raw veggies (limit fruit as fructose spikes insulin), animal protein (eggs, meat and dairy - the latter, if tolerated) and lots of fat. There were some great responses to a recent post on this blog asking about fat - here's the link.

www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/team_message
board_thread.asp?board=0x28224x49797087

Contrary to Conventional Wisdom (CW), fat does not cause us to get fat. Seems it may be more complex than just one class of nutrients, but that's a topic for another day.

Most followers of Primal/Paleo will find a balance of macro nutrients that work for them. For the last few months I have gotten my calories in these ratios - 60%fat, 25%protein, 15% carbs (almost all from veggies). I have recently been working on getting my fat number up to about 70% and my carbs down to 10% and protein to 20%. So far it seems to be working.

Well, those are my thoughts. Bottom line - you can't do it wrong, just find what works for you and label are only necessary if you are selling something. What's the name of my diet - I just tell people I avoid processed foods and sugars - enough said.

Have a good day - feel free to ask questions and share your stories - we are all learning from one another

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JAZZID's Photo JAZZID SparkPoints: (40,365)
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9/12/12 8:22 A

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Hi there.... Primal and Paleo are basically the same, but there are some differences.

Main Differences
The main difference between the Paleo and the Primal diet concerns the inclusion of dairy products. While Wolf and Cordain suggest eliminating dairy products, especially during the initial months, Sisson does not have any objection against the consumption of good quality, full-fat dairy products, such as butter, cream and full-fat yogurt. The Primal diet recommends choosing dairy products from pastured animals and consuming them raw instead of pasteurized. The Paleo diet does not forbid the consumption of dairy products but recommends that they be removed for a while and then reintroduced at a later time to assess your individual tolerance.

Different Approach
The recommended approach to start on the Paleo or Primal diet differs. Wolf recommends that you adopt a strict approach with the Paleo diet, excluding all non-Paleo foods, such as grains, dairy, legumes and processed foods, for at least 30 days to see whether the approach is for you. Sisson, however, recommends implementing the Primal diet with a looser approach, allowing a more gradual transition using the 80/20 rule, which suggests that you should eat Primal foods 80 percent of the time, allowing you to "cheat" for the other 20 percent of the time.

www.livestrong.com/article/545380-di
ff
erence-between-primal-and-paleo-dietR>/#ixzz26GjTOtZB


~ Dee

Edited by: JAZZID at: 9/12/2012 (11:17)

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RUKIDDINGME123's Photo RUKIDDINGME123 SparkPoints: (30,455)
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9/12/12 6:38 A

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Hi all,

I joined this group a week or two ago and I have just been lurking. I have decided to try going primal after years of attempting to do atkins. I'm about half way through reading the primal blueprint. The other day while lurking I spotted a post that was titled from primal to paleo
emoticon
I thought primal was paleo? Are they very different?

Help.

Edited by: RUKIDDINGME123 at: 9/12/2012 (06:38)
*~*Lisa*~*

"Genes load the gun and lifestyle pulls the trigger"

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