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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,385
1/17/13 2:57 P

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I understand your daugther's concern about the dog getting into things. Raisins and many other foods can indeed be quite dangerous for dogs. Sounds like your daughter is over-burdened with her situation the way it is and going through a lot of changes. Not an easy thing for a Mom to watch at all. Keep us posted how things are going and hopefully having a place to share about it here will help a little. Know that you are not responsible for any of this. She is an adult and will do what she wants. You can only do what you can do.
You may have some leverage if she needs your support and sees that you care about her and the dog's well-being.
Hang in there,
emoticon

You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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3HOURLADY Posts: 1,624
1/17/13 2:31 P

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Houndlover, thanks for the tips. I learned not to conftront her about things or else she won't tell me anything. I think what happened is that her husband brought home a puppy a couple of years ago, a yellow lab mix, and didn't want it in the house, so it stayed in the back yard all the time, and ended up escaping, and got hit by a car. When he brought home the German Shepherd puppy my daughter fell in love with it, insisted it had to stay in the house, because she didn't want a repeat of the first dog. So she read up on dog training, got a crate and some training dvd's, and started with potty training. Then she tried to find a dog trainer, and the only one out here is this one she used. The dog got into some raisins on the table, and it cost $2000 and 3 days at the vet to get him over that, so she's real worried about what he puts in his mouth. She was spending a lot of time with the dog, doing training routines and taking him on long walks, until her marriage fell apart, and she moved in with me. Now she's running around a lot, and when she leaves the dogs here she has strict rules about everything. When I disagreed with her about the crating she took the dogs back to her house, and won't leave them here. We love her dogs, but we can't enforce all her strict rules. When Bear was staying here we would let him out to spend time with us. My daughter claimed she could always tell Bear wasn't crated enough because he was too "stimulated." I think this attitude of hers comes from her need to control everything. She's always been that way all her life, and is hard boiled about life in general. It's her temperament. She's battled weight all her life, and it's a daily challenge for her to keep the weight off. She's a dietition at a hospital, and is really good at it. But if anything at all critical is directed at her she gets insulted immediately, and refuses to discuss anything. I am very different from her, except for the weight issues, and I find her attitude about the dogs very disturbing. I never thought any child of mine would ever be this way with a dog. She knows I am not happy with the situation.

The dog trainer used those exact words you were talking about, make the owner the sole source of fun things for the dog, keep it totally under control at all times. I sent her the link you sent me, with the video of the GS puppies. It's so adorable, I thought maybe she'd check it out some more. Thank you so much for sharing this with me. It helps to know that I'm in the right place with this, and she's gone overboard with her dog. I'll keep plugging away to get her to see the light. And thanks for the medical info. I bet that's what's going on. Bear did have the runs a while back, and he threw up a couple of times. I'll tell her what you said about that.

LMB-ESQ's Photo LMB-ESQ Posts: 11,214
1/17/13 12:39 P

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You could start with your vet too. I know that my vet knows every trainer in town. While he is not in the habit of giving out dirty details about anyone, if he's asked about a certain trainer that he doesn't like, he'll say so.

***** Laurie in Northeast Ohio *****

Fortunate are you if you love a dog, for that dog will surely love you.

Fly Free my friend.... for only in true freedom can we find our true selves

Treat stressful situations like a dog... If you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away!

Neat Link: The Rules for Being Human rules4humans.com/


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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,385
1/17/13 12:25 P

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This is a tough situation, and not only because it's a family member. Most people who are directly and aggressively challenged in situations like this (what all of us would probably feel like doing) will get defensive and often let it out on the dog and or stop being open about what is going on.
I've dealt with this kind of situation many times when I was doing dog rescue.
It is not always clear if the person knows and/or understands that they are abusive so the first line of defense is to try to educate the owner.
Concerning this trainer, I would go the the next Humane Society/SPCA shelter and find out if they have heard about this trainer, if animal control has ever investigated against him. You may also be able to search this online by typing in this name in your county. If there is strong reason to discredit the trainer that might influence your daughter.
Another question to consider would be (and please don't take this as my accusing you at all), where did your daughter learn that it is ok to treat animals like that (neglect them). It may have nothing to do with how you raised her, but it may be something that she witnessed when she was growing up, either towards animals or towards other people. It could have been anywhere, at a friend's house, at a relative's house, out playing with other kids that mistreated animals. Or could it be that she considers a dog just a possession (that she probably paid lots of money for), that she can do with as she pleases?
Is there a possibility that she had false expectations of owning this breed and could be coaxed to give up the dog if someone reimbursed her for the cost of getting it? You may want to look up German Shepherd rescue groups in you area (google city, state and German Shepherd rescue) and see if they can be of any help with this.
Whatever you do, resist the temptation to make her feel too bad about what she has done to this dog but let her save face if at all possible (I understand that this dog has turned out to be a lot of work for your lifestyle etc.) because getting her mad will close the door.
Considering the dog not eating well, this is a common German Shepherd separation anxiety problem and could be related to the confinement. But there are other possibilities. German Shepherds get a disease that is called exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, where their body does not produce enough or any digestive enzyme. If the dog ever has diarrhea this may be what's going on. In any case, you could suggest taking the dog to the vet, offer to pay for the visit and ask all the questions about managing the dog while there. You could even call ahead of time and tip off the vet about what your concerns are.
Know that we are all trying to support you in this. Let us know how you are doing and what we can do to help. emoticon

Birgit


Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 1/17/2013 (12:29)
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LMB-ESQ's Photo LMB-ESQ Posts: 11,214
1/17/13 10:34 A

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Agreed, it's making me angry too. This is an instance where I might consider calling the humane society, or a rescue group, even if it is your daughter. She doesn't have to know it's you who called. I have a GSD also and she is active, easily stimulated, and dominant aggressive. But so what? She'd actually be worse if I crated her that much. The key is consistent, firm but gentle attention, with a mix of stimulating play and quiet time. GSDs are smart dogs. They learn the difference. And they thrive on leadership from their pack alphas, which should be the humans who run the household. Making him spend so much time in a crate is not leadership. I hope your daughter listens to someone and fires that idiot. She'd do better borrowing video tapes from the library.

***** Laurie in Northeast Ohio *****

Fortunate are you if you love a dog, for that dog will surely love you.

Fly Free my friend.... for only in true freedom can we find our true selves

Treat stressful situations like a dog... If you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away!

Neat Link: The Rules for Being Human rules4humans.com/


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0309COOKIE's Photo 0309COOKIE Posts: 8,436
1/17/13 10:24 A

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The more I hear about this poor dog(s), the more I feel they are being abused. If your daughter has found other interests that take up her time and she must now rely on crating to "train" the dogs for all those long hours, I feel the humane thing to do would be to find the dogs another home. Further, that trainer sounds unprofessional to me. Why don't you have your daughter ask a vet if crating a dog for all those hours is good for the dogs? This post is heartbreaking.

PENNI68's Photo PENNI68 Posts: 4,048
1/17/13 8:00 A

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I have to stop looking at and reading this post because the more I do the angrier I get. I have a German Shepherd, it is my 2nd one, they don't need to be crated like that to make them mind. They need positive reinforcement, love and affection. I know she is your daughter but if she treats her dogs like this she doesn't deserve to have them. This post is literally making me feel nauseous that someone treats their animal that way and actually thinks it's okay? Why even bother getting a dog....it's infuriating......I just wanna go get those dogs and bring them home with me!!
I am sorry you have to witness this.

Penny - New York


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BLUEJEDIBUBBLES's Photo BLUEJEDIBUBBLES SparkPoints: (31,265)
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1/17/13 5:54 A

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With my Kiki, a 4 1/2 year old Jack Russell, she's the victim too of such abuse. Wish I knew what the heck the man did to do her who owned her before, but she's terrified of crates. The first week home she spent most of it cowering and shaking in the corner. Now she's fallen in love with burrowing under the covers of my mom's bed, where she sleeps at now.

As for myself, I'm momma. She *knows* who mommy is, and treats me as such. I'm her everything. She loves me rubbing her back, walking her, rubbing her belly. She's more of a snuggler than anything else. Long story, but she's scared of hubby. Very scared. But getting better.

I know she was kept in a crate and taunted, handed treats told she was a good girl then smacked. Makes me sad some of the crap I know he put her through. But anyway-
breaks my heart to know what your daughter is doing to her dogs. That is no life.

Whoever said "Money can't buy Happiness" never paid a dog rescue groups adoption fee.


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3HOURLADY Posts: 1,624
1/17/13 2:29 A

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Houndlover, thanks so much for the information. This dog trainer had a more adversarial attitude toward the dog, like "we can't let him think he's in charge, so we have to control him at all times." He said to crate him even more if he resisted it or else he would become way too dominant and dangerous. Bear is a nice dog, almost timid and submissive to the little dog that's older. He just wants to play. In the last few weeks his appetite has been poor. He eats half his food, and just leaves the rest. So I don't know if he's not getting enough activity, so isn't hungry, or if he's depressed, or if he's got a bug. But I've been told to butt out, so I keep quiet. I think the long hours in the crate stunt his development. He never gets a chance to run around because of the fear that he'll get out of control.

I really disagree with such strict crating, and I am grateful for the information you shared. It gives me more confidence in my position on this.

HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,385
1/17/13 2:14 A

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" Seeing a dog locked in a crate hour after hour is hard to watch. Whenever I try to show affection to the dog I'm told not to, because it will stimulate him too much. "

This is sickening! I'm so sorry you had to put up with this. While I know that you may not be able to do much about things going on outside your home I hope your daughter will be open to doing some reading about kinder training methods.
Of course showing affection will stimulate a young dog, it should. He needs to play to develop normally. This guy sounds even more creepy than most Schutzhund trainers would be. I wonder if he would lock a child up in a closet all day, too. Yikes!
Hang in there and try to patiently educate. Maybe her husband is more receptive.
emoticon

Birgit

Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 1/17/2013 (02:16)
You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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3HOURLADY Posts: 1,624
1/17/13 2:06 A

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Flowerdale, that's a really good observation. My daughter's husband really hated this dog trainer. He was convinced the guy was fooling around with my daughter, because the two of them had such a good rapport. I know nothing was going on, still the dog trainer was putting out vibes that were disturbing to my son in law. I never met the dog trainer, but I don't like his training advice. I'm sure there is a better way than extended crating to get a dog under control. Seeing a dog locked in a crate hour after hour is hard to watch. Whenever I try to show affection to the dog I'm told not to, because it will stimulate him too much. All I can think is "why have a dog if you can't enjoy it?" And as for neutering, I found that it makes for a better pet that doesn't roam, doesn't get in fights with other dogs, and doesn't pee on everything.

HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,385
1/17/13 2:05 A

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I suspected that this was a German Shepherd "specialist". There is an approach to training for breeds like German Shepherds that is called Schutzhund (German for protection dog) training. You can google the term and will find a ton of info about it. This method of training and testing was orginally developed in Germany to test dogs before breeding for their suitability as working dogs for police, military etc. where dogs need to be able to be fearless and have qualities that make them largely unsuitable as pets. The dogs are trained and handled with a lot of force and they are supposed to resist this force without showing shyness or fear.
Schutzhund competitions have become a popular sport in this country for quite a while. There is a ton of video on youtube about it you want to see what it looks like and there is a national organization that explains the rules. There are different levels of treating and training dogs for Schutzhund but it rarely involves using much positive reinforcement and this sounds like an old-style trainer.
I would use some of the books and videos produced by Ian Dunbar as a guide but if you go to the Association of Pet Dog Trainers website there are lists of trainers in each area of the country who use positive methods in training. After the treatment this dog has received it may indeed become very hard to handle and too aggressive to make a safe pet for the average household. There is a reason that German Shepherds are on the list of many insurance companies to not sell homeowners or renter's insurance to owners because they have gained a reputation for aggression problems. Some of these problems are due to bad breeding, but some are learned, often in an effort to make the dog protective of house and home. Let's just say that the barking of a dog (regardless of size) is a much safer burglar alarm with a lot less liability attached.
Birgit


You can talk to God all you want and that's great, but the changes happen when you start listening to him.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN OTHERS.




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FLOWERDALEJEWEL's Photo FLOWERDALEJEWEL Posts: 36,851
1/17/13 12:23 A

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When I read that the trainer was a "he" it said it all. Many men (not all I'm aware) have a tendency to want to bully anything to get the results they want.

It also explains the not getting the nuts taken off early, I'm surprised he didn't find a way to keep them permanently. I've lost count of the men I've seen automatically cross their legs at the thought of castration.

All of the suggestions here are of no use if your daughter won't listen. I don't know the laws in the US but it may be worthwhile checking if that amount of crating is lawful, at least it'd give you some ammunition to try to get your daughter to change her mind.

Peace and long life - Jules

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3HOURLADY Posts: 1,624
1/17/13 12:06 A

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I wish I could do more for her dog, but I'm disabled, on crutches with really bad balance problems so I can't get out to walk him. When my husband mentioned he would like to walk the dog my daughter said "no" because she worried the dog was too strong and willful, and would get away. She wants to do it all, have total control, but doesn't have the time, or money to hire anyone. She ended up with this dog trainer because we live in a rural area, and he's the only one out here. He has German Shepherds too, and this is the way he thinks they need to be trained. It never did set well with me, and I don't like the method at all. But, there are a lot of 10 month old German Shepherds that end up at the shelters, or on Craig's List because people adopt them when they are little, then don't know how to train them properly as they grow up. They end up being way too much dog for the owners.

Houndlover, in your experience what's the most humane way to train these big dogs with prey drive? It's a big responsibility to own a big dog, and requires a real commitment of time and energy. It seems to me that extended crating time doesn't really address the issue, and just makes it a quick fix for the owners, but it's a lousy quality of life for the dog.

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1/16/13 8:10 P

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Where the frackty frack did this dog trainer go to school or learn to be one? Maximum bone development my arse. Every rescue group I've worked with, every vet I've ever had and every trainer I've dealt with has always wanted the dogs (male and female) fixed as soon as they were old enough/any health issues that would complicate it being fixed taken care of.

Most normal, healthy dogs can be fixed as early as 6-10 months, depending on breed, size, weight and any underlying health issues. Some vets will fix dogs as early as 12-18 weeks.

If she wants to keep the dogs, she needs to fire her trainer like, yesterday. She needs to hire someone to come in for 2-3 hours a day (you, someone desperate for some extra cash....SOMEBODY) to play with the dogs, walk them, feed/water them. Show them some kind of attention.

I even worked with one trainer who refused to work with male dogs of any age UNLESS they were fixed. That was the same trainer, who upon learning of someone using a shock collar on their dogs made them wear said shock collar for about 45 minutes while randomly shocking them on a low setting to show how much it was hurting the dog they claimed to love so much. They got the hint, threw it out.

Something is very, very fishy with that trainer. Can you show her your post and our replies?

If she wants good, honest advice on how to fix the damage she's done, have her look up Victoria Stilwell at: positively.com/ and her forum to ask for advice on fixing/undoing the damage: positively.com/forum/

Limited crate time, no shock collars, all hard work.

Whoever said "Money can't buy Happiness" never paid a dog rescue groups adoption fee.


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3HOURLADY Posts: 1,624
1/16/13 7:34 P

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Thank you all so much for your posts. I really appreciate the insight about the "helplessness" training that's going on with this dog trainer. My daughter originally spent all kinds of time with her dogs after work, training them, and working with them. Then she got busy with other things, and now barely has time to walk them. The dog trainer told her that she shouldn't neuter the dog until it's over 2 years old, for "maximum bone development," but now the dog is humping everything in sight. It's a really beautiful nice dog, but it's getting neurotic from being restrained all the time. I agree she needs a much better trainer, and more time for her dogs. I just wasn't sure if I was correct or not. So I am really thankful for your voices of experience with this. I plan on forwarding that link to her.

LMB-ESQ's Photo LMB-ESQ Posts: 11,214
1/16/13 6:59 P

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I just re-read Houndlover1's post about competition-oriented trainers who keep dogs in crates all the time and I can't agree more. I had a track-rescue greyhound for many years who lived like that during her racing life. She was crated ALL the time, except when racing or training, or being taken out to potty only twice a day. Even at the greyhound kennel after she left the track, things were better for her because they worked at socializing her, but she still had to be crated more often than not.

Among her issues at the time we adopted her:
1. Not even remotely housetrained
2. Could not step up into the car to be taken anywhere
3. Could not walk up stairs
4. Afraid of the bathroom, esp the sound of a flushing toilet
5. Afraid of the sound of a ringing telephone
6. Stood out in the yard and trembled because she didn't know what to do with her freedom
7. Followed us from room to room because she didn't want to be left alone.
8. Would retreat when strangers came in the house.
9. Once I had to run fast out the front door for an emergency on the street and when I came back in, not five minutes later, she was cowering and crying in a corner.

So this is what over-crating and not socializing or working with a dog can do. With lots of love and patience and gentle coaxing, my greyhound got over all these issues and she turned out to be once of the best dogs I've ever owned. She died a couple of years ago from cancer, and I still miss her terribly.

The point is, a dog with those issues is not a happy dog and not a well-trained dog. Dogs are social creatures and they need interaction with their packs. I do believe in crating, and I crate my dogs, but only when we cannot be home to supervise them. It protects them from each other and from anything that could hurt them in the house, and it protects my house from them. It gives me peace of mind and gives them a rest break in their "den." But we don't overuse it. When we're home, they're with us. I feel that if a dog is always in a crate, then why bother having a dog?

***** Laurie in Northeast Ohio *****

Fortunate are you if you love a dog, for that dog will surely love you.

Fly Free my friend.... for only in true freedom can we find our true selves

Treat stressful situations like a dog... If you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away!

Neat Link: The Rules for Being Human rules4humans.com/


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GINA180847's Photo GINA180847 SparkPoints: (128,370)
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1/16/13 9:54 A

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I agree this is excessive crating and bad for the dogs.

"The world is one country and mankind its citizens" one of the many truths spoken by Baha'u'llah and "Love is the light that guideth in darkness, the living link that uniteth God with man, that assureth the progress of every illumined soul."


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PENNI68's Photo PENNI68 Posts: 4,048
1/16/13 8:21 A

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I have to agree that I see this as abuse. My dogs are crated for their own safety at times when I can not be at home, but never when I am there. They are allowed to run, play, and get the exercise and attention that they so badly need and require!

I have to agree with most of the people here, that dog is not calmer from being in a crate he/she is very depressed and it is cruel of your daughter to stick that dog in a crate for that long of a period of time.

I am glad you are advocating for these animals, she needs to find them a new home or start treating them with the respect that they deserve. Maybe your daughter should speak to a reputable breeder in the area, who raises that breed specifically and they could give her more accurate information on how to successfully train the dog or guide her in the direction of a proper more respectable and knowledgable trainer.

I hope your daughter comes around and I think that trainer she is using needs a little training of their own...maybe we could crate that trainer for 16 hrs a day for a one week period and see how much they like it.




Penny - New York


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LMB-ESQ's Photo LMB-ESQ Posts: 11,214
1/16/13 8:04 A

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Yeah, I'll throw in my two cents worth, i think it's abuse too. You don't train a dog by crating him, you train him by working with him. Part of training is the bonding process, and you can't bond with the dog if he's in the crate for what sounds like 90% of every day. It's too much. Dogs need exercise too. They need to run and play and socialize. That's all part of the training. Either tell your daughter to fire the trainer, or tell her to find new homes for those dogs. She clearly doesn't have time for them.

***** Laurie in Northeast Ohio *****

Fortunate are you if you love a dog, for that dog will surely love you.

Fly Free my friend.... for only in true freedom can we find our true selves

Treat stressful situations like a dog... If you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away!

Neat Link: The Rules for Being Human rules4humans.com/


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MYBULLDOGS's Photo MYBULLDOGS Posts: 8,440
1/16/13 6:55 A

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my bullies were crate trained by using a large dog cage. the door stays open. they run to the cage if they have done something wrong. they walk to the cage and take a nap on there own. i see nothing wrong with a dog cage if handled correctly.

MYGOLDENBOYS3's Photo MYGOLDENBOYS3 Posts: 666
1/16/13 6:05 A

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I would like to know what the credentials are of this dog trainer. Excessive crating sounds abusive to me. My dogs are crate trained to ride in the car, attend dog events where they need to be settled or wait for their turn in the ring. They were crate trained when puppies to help with potty habits. Now there are no crates in my house. I trust my dogs in the house. However, dogs are dogs and when they are loose, they will sometimes mischief to get into. They are like children in that respect.

I guess my question would be...why does she have dogs? It really doesn't sound like they have much of a relationship! emoticon

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FLOWERDALEJEWEL's Photo FLOWERDALEJEWEL Posts: 36,851
1/16/13 5:04 A

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I'm afraid she really needs to find homes for her dogs, she obviously doesn't have the time to afford them a proper socialization etc.

Just because somebody claims to be a "trainer" does not make it so. I've seen many doctors that I wouldn't take my dogs to and I've seen some atrocious "trainers" Advocating such a strict regime of crating is totally abusive and definitely not good for a dog.

I'm loathe to quote the Dog Whisperer as I'm tired of hearing about him, but his ideas about treating a dog like a dog make a lot of sense and I'm sure he would see this as a recipe for disaster.

Peace and long life - Jules

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HOUNDLOVER1's Photo HOUNDLOVER1 Posts: 8,385
1/16/13 12:29 A

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3HOURLADY,
I am speaking as a professional dog trainer which I have been for about 25 years. It is definitely abusive to crate any dog that much. Sadly, there are indeed dog trainers who will not only say this ok but even recommend it. They are in the minority and often do the same with their own dogs. It is very likely that a dog that is crated that much will get depressed and to some degree used to it, but not in a good way. The term for this is " learned helplessness". A dog that is crated that much will often not have normal muscle development, obsessive-compulsive behaviors, including self-mutilation and other health problems.
Unfortunately there is nothing you can do legally because as long as an animal is receiving food and water and basic care animal protection laws are rarely strong enough to to anything.
The best I can recommend is to talk to other local trainers and see if they would give their comment. They probably know animal laws in your county as well and may have an idea on what to do.
In the meantime I would like you to take a look at this website, started by Ian Dunbar, the founder of the Association of Pet Dog Trainers, one of the most highly respected dog trainers and behavior consultants in the world. You will find lots of information on humane training methods on his website and the linked article sums up the issue very nicely. Maybe if you forward some of the info to your daughter she would consider it.
www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/crate-or-
no
t-crate-why


Is she is not open to this it may be that she has been thoroughly indoctrinated by a trainer that is competition-oriented. Some people keep their dogs in crates as much as possible to create an unnatural dependence on them. The dog only gets out of the crate when they are working with it, whether in the show ring, obedience competition or other competitive event and of course the dog is then very motivated to do what the owner wants. This is a very sick need for power and success on the part of the handler/owner.
There is the possibility that your daughter is genuinely concerned for your safety and/or your dog's safety or even the safety of her little dog. This may be legitimate, given the number of Shepherds and Huskies and crosses of those who have high prey-drive and pose a significant risk for smaller dogs. If this is the case you may want to offer to give the larger dog access to a fenced-in yard that is sufficiently secured (5-feet high minimum) and keep him separate from the others. That way he could be crated part-time and allowed to exercise part-time, making the situation much safer and better for everyone.
Hope you can work something out. Don't give up, these dogs may really need your help. emoticon
Birgit


Edited by: HOUNDLOVER1 at: 1/16/2013 (00:30)
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1/15/13 10:31 P

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That is really wrong. Maybe you could talk to the dog trainer and explain the situation? Either she doesn't know all the details, or she doesn't have a clue what she is doing. From what you are you are telling me it sounds like the dogs are being crated for 18+ hours a day. That is too long.
I would look into buying some books on crate training or do some research online. I am pretty sure that you will find that those books will say that leaving the dog in the crate that long is abuse. It may even be illegal in many states.

Here are some links to some websites that might be of interest:
north-attleboro.ma.us/shelter/crate.
ht
ml#use-abuse

www.cityofboston.gov/animalcontrol/p
et
care/cratetraining.asp

www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/t
ip
s/crate_training.html


All of these links talk about crate abuse. Do whatever you can for those poor animals because they are suffering.

Edited by: CHERISEWS at: 1/15/2013 (22:42)
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1/15/13 9:47 P

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I'm sorry, she needs to find new homes for the dogs. She doesn't have time for them. No reputable dog trainer will tell you it's okay to leave the dogs in a crate that often.

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1/15/13 9:43 P

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I don't think she has time for dogs.

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1/15/13 9:39 P

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Hi everyone,
I am concerned about my daughter's dogs. She works full time, and was leaving them with me. She insisted they had to be crated at all times, except to go potty. One is a huge German Shepherd/husky mix, and the other one is a teeny little Chihuahua/terrier mix. They are nice dogs, and when they are here we let them out to run around and play with our dogs. My daughter said not to do that because her big dog will get too rowdy, and will be hard to handle if he thinks he can play with other dogs. Also he might eat something bad for him, or destroy things. We always keep him tethered and closeby, and he never gets the run of the house, but our dogs love playing with him. Now my daughter is upset, won't leave her dogs here because she saw other dog hair on him, and figured we were letting her big dog out of the crate too much. Her dog trainer told her to keep him crated at all time so he would be perfectly trained. She spends time with her dogs on the weekend, and takes them at night to sleep at her house. But now she won't even bring them over here at all when she has to go to work. I never used crates with my dogs, so it seems like all day in a crate is extreme. I understand crating at night and during meals, and for time outs. But 10 hours a day, walks in the early morning, and after work, then crated again when she goes to classes after work, and all night in the crate seems like too much crate time to me.

Is this overuse of the crate, or is this ok with a big dog? She claims the dog is calmer when he's crated all day. I think the dog is depressed, not calm, and it seems sad. But she won't listen to anyone except this dog trainer. I would appreciate anything you have to say about this. Thanks.

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