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VEG954 Posts: 3,766
7/19/14 8:45 P

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This the end of day 3 on KETO diet.
Over feeling sick and had a great day today.
Will be trying turbo coffee recipe for breakfast.
Can't wait!

HEALTHYPRIYA's Photo HEALTHYPRIYA SparkPoints: (18,693)
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6/11/14 8:59 P

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thanks for your guidance, will plan that for tomorrow morning breakfast



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DIETITIANBECKY's Photo DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 26,624
6/11/14 6:44 A

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An egg sandwich (2 slices bread or English Muffin??) This would be about 30 grams of carb.
You may want to add on a serving of fruit too....bringing meal total to 45 grams.

Becky

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6/10/14 9:52 P

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Becky

Points well noted,
as i workout early morning, an egg sandwich should serve as my post workout meal made with carbs and proteins





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6/10/14 9:47 P

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Thanks HMBROWN1



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HEALTHYPRIYA's Photo HEALTHYPRIYA SparkPoints: (18,693)
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6/10/14 9:45 P

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RUSSELL_40

your points sounds very logical, yes i was so low on carbs

The need for changing diet was -
as i have reached my goal measurement, and i used to run a lot, say 25kms a week, i was worried of loosing muscle mass
i thought of adding more proteins in my diet so i can feed my lean body mass
adding more proteins immediately made me go low on carbs as its fills up
and there i could not run :(



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DIETITIANBECKY's Photo DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 26,624
6/10/14 7:32 P

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For those who participate in moderate to intense exercise lasting 60 minutes or more, carbohydrate intake can greatly impact energy level and the ability to workout.

You do want to have a high carb meal or snack (30-45 grams) about 1-2 hours prior to working out. These should be quick-digesting carbs. These carbs will turn into blood glucose and provide about 100 calories.

However, one's "real" energy comes from muscle and liver glycogen stores. To keep these glycogen stores filled, it is most important to have a high carb meal or snack within 30 minutes after you stop your exercise program.

So to have the best energy for your workout, it is more important to focus on your post workout meal/snack. And the carbs you eat for the next several hours following your workout; rather than the carb amount prior to exercising.

Here is more on the topic:
www.sparkpeople.com/resource/nutrition_art
icles.asp?id=1082


Becky
Your SP Registered Dietitian

HMBROWN1's Photo HMBROWN1 SparkPoints: (30,729)
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6/10/14 1:32 P

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I hope you get your energy back! I would see a doctor also. Best wishes!



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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/10/14 10:04 A

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Often on lower carbs, you will find a temporary setback as far as stamina, or strength, and have to build back up. If it remains a problem, seeing that doctor, or dietitian might be a good idea. You want to not only be lighter, but also have the energy to exercise more as you get lighter. There is a benefit to exercise that you don't want to lose just so you can lose weight a little faster.

Hopefully this IS temporary, and you bounce back. Another idea might be to eat some of those carbs right before working out, so you have glucose to burn, especially when running. You do have 170-180 grams for the day. Why not have a greater percentage of carbs at the meal right before any exercise? So if you eat 3 meals, instead of 33 % at each, try 40-50 % at the meal before exercise, and 25-30 % at the other 2.

You are eating less fuel, and running out. It's that simple. I use ketones, but need to stay below 50 grams carbs a day to stay in ketosis. At 170-180 grams, you are still burning carbs most of the time, just with less of a supply. You need more carbs around your workout.

One thing I haven't seen is why you changed your diet so much.. what was the goal when you made the change? Was the old plan not working? Also, how long have you been on the new plan? ( sorry if I missed any of this info in previous posts ).

With every new plan, one should ask 1 ) Does it accomplish the goal? and 2 ) Does it cause any negative issues?/ are they temporary. or fixable?


"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

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“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

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HEALTHYPRIYA's Photo HEALTHYPRIYA SparkPoints: (18,693)
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6/9/14 9:23 P

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thanks RUSSELL_40 for your motivational words



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HEALTHYPRIYA's Photo HEALTHYPRIYA SparkPoints: (18,693)
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6/9/14 9:22 P

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Dear Becky

If its concerning i will get appointment with the doctor, yes i am not able to run now, so switched to easy cardio 2 times a week, rest yoga and strength training

regarding diet, i just read articles and decided to try IIFYM style, where i need to fill my diet with proteins and fats and rest Carbs

i am thinking of started tracking in sparkpeople instead of another site where i had been tracking so i can open my Food tracker with you all

if its really concerning i will consult a registered dietician too



Edited by: HEALTHYPRIYA at: 6/10/2014 (02:18)

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DIETITIANBECKY's Photo DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 26,624
6/9/14 8:20 A

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Dear Priya--
I just read your post that you could "not" do any running last week, due to a lack of energy.
This is concerning.
Do plan a follow up appointment with your doctor.
I know that you reported that your labs were all normal.
What does the doctor suggest???
Are you to see a specialist??
If the doctor thinks this is diet related; are you being referred to a Registered Dietitian?

Becky
Your SP Registered Dietitian Nutritionist

RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/9/14 7:12 A

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It really isn't that hard Priya. Most of us don't eat healthy, so small changes have a huge effect on weight, and health, and you don't need to be perfect. Just eat as healthy as possible. The same is true with exercise. Do what you can, and push yourself a little, and it will increase as weight drops, and you get healthier, without forcing anything.

We can all argue for what works for US, but the truth is, all we need to do is improve what WE are doing to see benefits. That may be walking for an hour, if you can't run, or eating at home, instead of fast food. These may still not be part of the perfect plan, but if they are better than what you are currently doing, it is fine. You can improve in steps.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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HEALTHYPRIYA's Photo HEALTHYPRIYA SparkPoints: (18,693)
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6/9/14 12:59 A

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i read all the replies, very informative

Thanks Becky, RUSSELL_40, JUSTEATREALFOOD, MICHELLE for your imputs on this, points well noted

i will eat good fats and carbs for energy, proteins 80-100 grams
hope i can get back to running, last week i could not go a single day



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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/8/14 6:55 A

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Maybe the difference is if you go beyond regular exercise, which I don't..lol. Maybe the high fat gives me enough energy for moderate exercise for 2 hours, but if I increased intensity, or duration to some extent, I would need more carbs. My guess, is that with the extra exercise, I could burn off the extra carbs.

Thanks JERF. I would never go above 16 % personally ( 80 grams @ 2000 cals ), so I will have to limit exercise I guess, but 80 grams is double my normal amount, so maybe I could run some short races at that level.



"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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JUSTEATREALFOOD's Photo JUSTEATREALFOOD Posts: 1,288
6/8/14 6:32 A

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Anecdotally, I eat high fat, low carb, moderate protein 60/20/20 and am able to compete in long distance mountain bike races, 50km in length without consuming any food or liquid other than water during the race.

I have found when I am very active day after day in summer I do need more carbohydrates to help my muscles recover fast. A maximum 40% of calories from vegetables and fruits for one or two days a week, after a really big training day or race, but not every day. And let me define big here, I'm talking about a day when I'm mountain biking hard for more than 4 hours.

But that's just me.



Edited by: JUSTEATREALFOOD at: 6/9/2014 (08:04)
JERF - Just Eat Real Food


I'm a Certified Personal Trainer.

I eat mostly vegetables, fats, meats, some fruit and dark chocolate. Unprocessed and preservative free. And it's changed my life!

5'4"
Goal weight 125lbs
36 years old
2 kids

Keeping my blood sugar levels low on my high fat/ low carb/ moderate protein diet.


Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.

- Vince Lombardi


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MICHELLEXXXX SparkPoints: (6,920)
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6/8/14 5:16 A

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I know quite a few LC moderate distance to marathon runners.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16


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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/8/14 4:59 A

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journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFullt
ext?type=1&fid=794724&jid=PNS&volumeId
=57&issueId=01&aid=794716


When reading this, I note that 3-5 day studies show high carb diets to be superior in exercise to exhaustion, but that over 14 days, they seem to be relatively the same, one people adapt to a ketogenic diet. I think most of the diets still were pretty high carb compared to me though ( 20 % ).

Still, there are other health concerns to worry about, but it seems really divided on whether either diet has an endurance benefit, with studies seeming to go both ways. For someone like me, who does MIE for 90-120 minutes a day, I tend to be within how long it takes a person on a high fat diet to reach exhaustion.

Maybe I could go for 240 minutes on a high carb diet, but it really isn't about which one is superior, but whether I can get enough energy to get through my 90-120 minutes of exercise every day. If both diets can achieve this, then it is really a matter of choice, and preference, and the only real argument is whether high fat is dangerous.

They still seem unable to say that high fat can be an alternate source of energy, even if less desirable to the average person. That would seem to be an explanation in my energy surge since upping fat, and cutting carbs. Of course, when I up carbs, while also eating high fat, I lose energy, which is confusing. They are 50/50 whether high fat can provide enough energy, but really don't explain how. Maybe because we all know carbs are energy, and they assume we know fat is too? It would be nice to see it in print though, and then we could set about making a high fat diet that could be done in a healthy way for those who follow that way of eating.

I think a lot of people are scared to do low carb, because they think they will be lacking in energy to do their 80 minute workouts. It would be nice to know which ratios of macros provide enough energy. It seems like moderate carb precludes keto-adaptation, and may be why people experience exhaustion. They aren't burning fat, and eat too few carbs.

To me, it seems obvious that one would either need to eat a ketogenic diet to burn fat, or eat more carbs ( 50-60 % ) to fuel your body. Being in the middle would result in you using less energy. Cutting carbs, without switching to burning fat, would leave one depleted, and tired.

That doesn't mean that you can't lose weight on a 20 % carb, 60% fat diet, but you may have less energy than if you do 5 % carb, 75% fat.

Because of this, I think most people would shy away from eating a diet like this, and therefore most will stick to a 50-60 % carb diet, but I hope more studies are done to explore this possibility, so that we understand low carb more, since I can do 20 % carbs, or 5 %, and be low carb, but I don't want to be exhausted just so I can lose weight.

Personally, I can't lose weight or control my diabetes on anything over 80 grams a day, so I don't have a choice, but most people do, but may not know there may be another choice. Still, before that happens, we need to figure out what about a high fat diet could cause energy increase, and the different ways you could follow a high fat diet to cause a increase in energy, or experience a decrease in energy, as well as if there are any health concerns proven to occur from pure fat, not fat and carbs combined.

I think high fat gets blamed for eating poorly, the same as low fat does. We owe it to the public to do studies with low fat, and high fat doctors supervising their own diets, but overseen by a person or group who is unbiased, if that is possible.

It has to be getting hard to ignore all the people who have more energy on a LCHF diet than their high carb associates. Most of the people I know at my gym eat low-moderate carb. I know that for most, it is just what is popular today, but it is amazing that at the gym, the amount who follow low carb is much higher than the average.

I do tend to get there first thing in the morning, when most of the people are " fanatics ". Even the low fat, high carb people succeed, because they tend to get much healthier carbs, like fruits, and vegetables,higher fiber, and real bread, instead of the garbage bread at the grocery. Later in the day, there are more overweight people, who may be eating poor carb choices.

Interestingly, no one pays attention to the individual food choices it would seem, or it doesn't get mentioned at least. Just hitting the right macro percentages doesn't mean you are eating healthy. Maybe the high carbers in one group are eating quinoa, plain oatmeal, bakery bread, and lots of fruits and veggies, with fats coming from avocados, and olive oil, and fish. The next group could be eating pizza. The same is true with low carb. One group could be eating lean fish and chicken, with eggs and butter, lots of fish, vegetables, berries, nuts, and cheese, with avocados, and olive oil, and the other group could be eating huge steaks, in butter, with a small side of corn.

Therefore they seem to avoid the influence of actual nutrition.

In the end, I just want someone to explain WHY I have so much energy. I see a study saying high fat can give me as much energy as high carb, or close, but what is lacking is WHY. You have to explain that. You can't just make statements, and think people will accept them as fact. I am not even asking them to prove it, just explain what their belief is. I want to be convinced, but there does not seem to be much evidence either way, or a great desire to do more than state what either side believes to be true.

Edited by: RUSSELL_40 at: 6/8/2014 (05:49)
"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/8/14 4:29 A

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Thanks Becky. I know runners would love to be able to burn their own fat on runs, instead of carbs, since there is a limit to the glucose/glycogen your body can hold, whereas, 10 lbs. of fat is 35,000 calories to help fuel you through the race. Especially with endurance races, they have to consume lots of carbs or " goo " and have to worry about gas, or diarrhea from consuming so much food to fuel their body. Food produces waste. It is impossible to consume 35,000 calories of food throughout the race, but if it is already on the body as stored fat, then if you can tap into it, you can use it for energy.

Few people have figured out how to do this with any success however.





Edited by: RUSSELL_40 at: 6/8/2014 (04:58)
"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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DIETITIANBECKY's Photo DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 26,624
6/8/14 3:42 A

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This article by the American College of Sports Medicine has a good review of macronutrient distribution for the athlete to achieve the greatest success with training and competition.

journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2009/0
3000/Nutrition_and_Athletic_Performanc
e.27.aspx


Since there was a concern with energy level and workouts; I thought it appropriate to refer to such guidelines.

There is on-going research to determine "if" there are eating plans or techniques that can make the transition to burn fat for energy most efficient. Long-distance/endurance athletes would like to make this transition beneficial during competition. An ideal technique has not been found and is still under investigation.





Becky


RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/8/14 2:28 A

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My question is why I have tons of energy eating 10 % carbs, and 60-70% fat.

I am lead to believe that there is a transition period from burning carbs to burning fat, and maybe this 2-3 day lack of energy is that transition phase. I am wondering what you think about that Becky, since at 3 % carbs today, I am supposedly going to have no energy, but I did 105 minutes of cardio/ weight training, and having trouble getting to sleep because I am brimming with energy.

Is being in the middle 40/20/40, preventing the OP from using glucose, or ketones, and she is lacking energy because she spends so much time transitioning between the two, or how does this work. If so, I think a person would have to either eat plenty of carbs, or low enough to stay in ketosis most of the time, to have energy. Is this why so many people eating 100-200 grams of carb so low in energy? Seems like they would use up glucose/glycogen quickly, and then take time to switch to burning fat.

Is there any info on this? I love the energy I do have, but also would like to know why I have it, and whether a person needs to either commit to staying in ketosis, or eat 50 % carbs to keep energy levels up.

Edited by: RUSSELL_40 at: 6/8/2014 (02:29)
"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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MICHELLEXXXX SparkPoints: (6,920)
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6/7/14 5:38 P

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Could you go to bed at 10pm so you can make it to the gym in the morning?

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16


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DIETITIANBECKY's Photo DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 26,624
6/7/14 11:45 A

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Actually, if you follow the nutrition research regarding athletic condition (sports nutrition); the low carbohydrate intake could "easily" be the "cause" of the lack of energy for the original poster.

Based on the very first post of this thread, I calculate the following (estimate):
21% of calories coming from protein (very good)
39% of calories from carbohydrates (too low!)
and 40% fat (too high)

The carbohydrates maybe providing enough blood glucose for the immediate needs but then when the body relies on stored glycogen for maintaining the workout intensity---there is little available due to the lower carbohydrate intake day after day. Too low of carbohydrate intake can impact greatly your energy level during your workout. This is strongly supported in sports nutrition research.

You may feel better if you focus on getting at least 45%-50% of your calories from carbohydrates using healthy types of carbs such as fruit, milk, yogurt, beans, lentils, whole grains, starchy vegetables. This is the recommendation by leading sports nutrition organizations. Using the ranges of your SP program will also be appropriate for your needs for energy during your workout; while still wanting to lose weight. Be sure to set your weight loss goal to no more than 1 pound lost weekly.

If you are doing intense training, then be sure to take in a meal or snack with a higher carb amount within 30-45 minutes of your workout....this will refill your glycogen stores appropriately so that you have the energy needed on the next day.

Becky
Your SP Registered Dietitian

RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/7/14 10:29 A

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Our bodies first source of fuel is carbs, and then fat. Protein maintains/builds muscle, and in an emergency can be converted to glucose, but not in great quantities.

So what you have done is cut carbs, which I wholeheartedly support. However, instead of replacing them with protein, which your body will not use, since you probably don't have that much muscle to provide for, you should be making up the carbs, with the body's other fuel source.. FAT. When you burn up the carbs then, you will switch to dietary fat, then body fat, and still have energy.

You are replacing an energy source with a muscle building macro, and therefore are lacking energy. Replace it with healthy fats instead, and you will probably have loads more energy in a few days.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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HEALTHYPRIYA's Photo HEALTHYPRIYA SparkPoints: (18,693)
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6/6/14 12:09 A

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i used to track my food on Myfitnesspal and i continued tracking there as i have my food/recipes already created there
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/healthy_priya

i will switch to SP tracker soon, i just need to recreate my recipes and food here

i eat around 1500-2000 calories a day and will put 8 hour sleep on my top most priority



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SLIMMERKIWI's Photo SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (132,501)
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6/5/14 11:21 P



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Rather than a big block of time at the gym, you could always go for short bursts of exercise during the day. A 10 minute walk at lunch time, a few squats or wall push-ups every now-and-then during the day and still focusing on getting more sleep, AND ensuring that you are eating a healthy balance of food, and you might find your energy returning. As Dietitian Becky has stated, sharing your Nutrition Tracker could benefit you considerably.

The other thing I will ask is what range does SP suggest that you use?

Also, where it comes to fatigue, it is likely that you just haven't been allowing yourself enough time to sleep, but if this is not only occasional, is it possible that you could have a sleep disorder. A lot of people don't realize that they have one until they are checked for it. That can cause a lot of fatigue.

Kris

Edited by: SLIMMERKIWI at: 6/7/2014 (13:30)
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6/5/14 10:04 P

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thanks everyone. last night slept at 11 and today woke up at 7
to get enough sleep i had to miss my morning gym at 6am

will try to get SP video done in evening, working on my sleep now

Thank you



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HEALTHYPRIYA's Photo HEALTHYPRIYA SparkPoints: (18,693)
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6/5/14 10:02 P

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Thanks Becky

before joining SP, i was tracking on another website food tracker, so still tracking there only, haven't shifted to SP food tracker yet



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FIELDWORKING's Photo FIELDWORKING SparkPoints: (24,673)
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6/5/14 1:37 P

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Are you getting enough iron in your diet? A lack of iron can cause you to feel sluggish.

Edit: I just saw the part about the iron levels being normal. So, I maybe it's in what you are eating even if your ratio's are good. Sleep may be another option as well.

Edited by: FIELDWORKING at: 6/5/2014 (13:39)

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JUSTEATREALFOOD's Photo JUSTEATREALFOOD Posts: 1,288
6/5/14 7:52 A

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I also think sleep may be the key here. I personally need a minimum of 7.5 hours sleep to feel okay and anything less leaves me tired and hungry all day. Ideally I would sleep 9 hours a night.

JERF - Just Eat Real Food


I'm a Certified Personal Trainer.

I eat mostly vegetables, fats, meats, some fruit and dark chocolate. Unprocessed and preservative free. And it's changed my life!

5'4"
Goal weight 125lbs
36 years old
2 kids

Keeping my blood sugar levels low on my high fat/ low carb/ moderate protein diet.


Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.

- Vince Lombardi


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DIETITIANBECKY's Photo DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 26,624
6/5/14 7:10 A

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Seeing your nutrition tracker may help with giving suggestions. Let me know if you need the steps to make it public.

Sleep deprivation could definitely be involved. Are you able to get 8 hours of "quality" sleep nightly and then see how you feel after 3-4 weeks.

Becky
Your SP Registered Dietitian

CARRIENIGN's Photo CARRIENIGN SparkPoints: (29,020)
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6/5/14 5:35 A

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I'm in almost exactly the same boat. :/ I get the recommended macro ratio and eat pretty healthy. I've tried eating under and over calories and I haven't seemed to figure out anything to help, yet. My work schedule only allows about six hours of sleep for three or four nights a week.

“Believe in yourself and all that you are. Know that there is something inside you that is greater than any obstacle.”
--Christian D. Larson


 current weight: 124.6 
 
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MICHELLEXXXX SparkPoints: (6,920)
Fitness Minutes: (5,730)
Posts: 2,040
6/5/14 5:19 A

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I would focus on getting 8hours sleep/night for a few weeks then reassess.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16


 current weight: 105.0 
 
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HEALTHYPRIYA's Photo HEALTHYPRIYA SparkPoints: (18,693)
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6/4/14 10:52 P

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i Lost Fat but i am loosing energy, is it 100 grams proteins?

Situation BEFORE -
i had energy for morning workouts specially 5K - 10K Run, but by evening i used to crash with no energy left
it used to be 1300-1500 cals diet with approx
70 grams proteins
200+ grams Carbs


Situation NOW-
i have increased my diet to 1800-2000 cals a day,
proteins 100 grams,
Carbs - 170-180 grams a day
i don't crash at end of day but i have no energy to exercise
I Did 2 sets of lat pull down and i could not do any more
i just went to sit in steam room, running looks like dream, i was huffed puffed with just jogging


Tests - yes i got my tests done in details, thyroid, iron, magnesium, blood sugar and all reports were normal


Sleep - only 5-6 hour sleep per night :(



 Body Fat %: 31.7
 
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