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FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
2/1/14 9:59 A

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Mandie- You haven't done anything. The people on this message board actually started a thread about me after WW deleted one of the threads I started (rather than deleting the posts that actually violated terms of service).

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BARBANAL's Photo BARBANAL Posts: 4,106
2/1/14 9:57 A

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excellant advice Russell ! emoticon

God is good !


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MANDIETERRIER1's Photo MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 13,718
1/31/14 1:22 P

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When I first joined Weight Watchers. I looked through the message boards. I didn't like their message boards very much.

PS. If you feel that I was bullying you on another thread. Then I sincerely apologize. That was not my intent.

Made it to my maintenance weight of 125 pounds.

Eat what you like and if someone comments, eat them too

Please read my blog

http://erinwroteablogyall.blogspot.com/201
4/11/adventures-at-olive-bar.html


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FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/31/14 1:15 P

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They did the paper plate thing around Thanksgiving one meeting.

And yes, they are jerks. I reported a bunch of their comments, and they made a new post about me when WW deleted the thread.

Twitter/Instagram: @FtSoLK (From the Scales of Lissa Kristine)

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ALGEBRAGIRL Posts: 1,764
1/31/14 12:47 P

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'They made fun of me because I thought about bringing Dixie cups to a party for dip (which would also help me with portion control). They made fun of the fact that I had to deal with the same food temptations two holiday seasons in a row. The list goes on and on.'

Jeez, these people are jerks.
But they aren't confined to a group on a WW forum, this I know.
One thing I still have from an old WW meeting is a paper plate that was folded and used as a visual aid. Still have that and won't throw it out!

FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/31/14 12:30 P

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You didn't know me as a child. My idea of playing involved more storytelling than moving. I tried to get out of running in P.E. when I was five.



Twitter/Instagram: @FtSoLK (From the Scales of Lissa Kristine)

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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
1/31/14 11:44 A

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WW, and diet are not my strong areas, since I have only ever succeeded at one diet..low carb.

Exercise however, I love, and I will tell you for starters that doing something you think negatively about is not the answer. Find exercise you love to do. We did it every day as children. It is called PLAYING. Find a sport, ride a bike, swim in a pool, take a hike/walk, throw a frisbee around, do some gardening, or even just have a snowball fight. These are all activity, and therefore exercise. The difference is you will probably like volleyball better than doing yoga, or ballet, and keep doing it. I haven't been to a gym in over a year.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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ALGEBRAGIRL Posts: 1,764
1/31/14 11:31 A

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'What if you're at 1,200-1,550 calories per day, and you're only at 1,060 calories for the day? You're not hungry, but would you still try to eat an additional 140 calories to reach your minimum? I know I would... and that's how it works with WW.'

I think I'd eat the additional 140 calories. I think that what you mean is that in the course of the rest of the day, you know you have 140 calories available for a snack. 140 calories is not very much. Veggie and fruit-wise, you get a ton of food for 140 calories. If you're talking about a piece of meat, it's a very small amount but a leftover piece of roast chicken might hit the spot.

I don't think that what you meant is that as soon as you knew you were 'under' your caloric limit, you immediately had to eat those calories to make your limit, right then and there. Even when you are not hungry at the moment.

That's the way I interpret what you said. One thing my WW leader has said many times is that you don't buy yourself a whole lot by skipping using your bonus points, for example (I use bonus points - a number available for each week - on dinner or lunch out in a restaurant.) You can't save them up for the next week. So use them because you'll lose them. And using bonus points often means getting more varied nutrients. I definitely get the benefit of that when I go out to a restaurant. My husband and I agree that when we go to a restaurant, we order what we would never make at home, in fact what we may not even have the ingredients for. Then we share our meals with each other and get even more variety!

Edited by: ALGEBRAGIRL at: 1/31/2014 (11:34)
BUNNYKICKS's Photo BUNNYKICKS Posts: 2,328
1/31/14 10:36 A

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"tracking on WW, which meant that I needed to eat 4 more points"

NO, it meant you had to spend four seconds of contemplative time and realize that you had consumed multiple points-worth of "free point, but calorie-containing" foods, thus quickly recognizing that you were not shortchanging your body on needed nutrition and didn't need to worry about "eating when not hungry just to meet the magical minimum points."

But I THINK i may have mentioned this before.

Goal 1 - break 200 (46 pounds lost)**DONE**
Goal 2 - leave obesity behind (BMI 29.9, at 185#) **DONE**
Goal 3 - BMI = Normal (154# or less)


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LIZJEDI56 SparkPoints: (631)
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1/31/14 7:55 A

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Are You Kidding? That is the BEST thing to do! Fill up with 200 calories of Dark Green Leafy Veggies, Crisp celery and Carrots Squash, Fressh ripe tomatoes, beautiful Green Avocados, crisp beautil cilantro. Beautifull Kale (I personally love the Dinosaur kALE) I can't believe you said that! emoticon

FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/31/14 12:53 A

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Apparently it's a blend of yoga and ballet... Which means I'm probably going to be horrible at it.


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SLIMMERKIWI's Photo SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (135,633)
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1/31/14 12:18 A



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What is a "Yogallet class?"

Kris

Co-Moderator Dealing with Depression
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I am not a Dr - please check with your qualified Health Professional for a diagnosis and treatment plan


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FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/31/14 12:10 A

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Eelpie- I will repeat once more that I was double tracking as a transition. I was primarily tracking on WW, which meant that I needed to eat 4 more points. On WW, it's like eating below the bottom of your calorie range. What if you're at 1,200-1,550 calories per day, and you're only at 1,060 calories for the day? You're not hungry, but would you still try to eat an additional 140 calories to reach your minimum? I know I would... and that's how it works with WW.

Azul- I'll have to see if there's something existing happening in the area. There were a couple groups that looked interesting: a real food group (that goes on trips to local farms for berry and apple picking, creameries, restaurants that serve organic food, etc) was one of them. There's also an indoor cycling class for $10 on Wednesday evening, and $10 walk-in Zumba (but there is a local grocery store that does free fitness classes including Zumba).

Actually, the same grocery store has a walking group that meets at 8am on Thursdays. 5 times around the store is equal to about 1 mile. I could even do the walking group followed by a free Yogallet class

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CLAYARTIST Posts: 3,277
1/30/14 11:12 P

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ok

AZULVIOLETA6's Photo AZULVIOLETA6 SparkPoints: (63,029)
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1/30/14 9:15 P

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Meetup groups don't have to be public speaking. I go to a language conversation group every week that is 5-10 people. We just sit around and talk...sometimes the leader doesn't even show up. :)

Dances: salsa (standard/LA), casino, rueda de casino, cumbia Colombiana, bachata, mambo, cha-cha-chá, merengue, reggaetón.

Currently learning: Mexican cumbia, danzón, Cuban rumba

Dances to Learn in the future: flamenco, tango Argentino, samba, belly dancing, bhangra, ballroom rumba


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EELPIE's Photo EELPIE Posts: 2,669
1/30/14 6:38 P

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Eating something when you aren't truly hungry is not a good idea.

I think it's actually reinforcing bad behaviour. It's like me saying "I'm not hungry, but that yogurt is there...I might as well eat it, simply because it is sitting there."

Now, at 140 calories, that doesn't sound too bad, does it? But that is over 900 calories a week that did not need to be consumed. One month of that is 3900 calories, which is over a pound.





The best exercise in the world is to bend down and help someone up.


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FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/30/14 6:31 P

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I was ok calorie wise regardless. There are some things I will have to unlearn from WW and that is one of them.

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EELPIE's Photo EELPIE Posts: 2,669
1/30/14 6:28 P

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I do.

But to keep doing it...makes me sigh.

The best exercise in the world is to bend down and help someone up.


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SLIMMERKIWI's Photo SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (135,633)
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1/30/14 6:24 P



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Rather than 'sigh' ..... rejoice in the fact the OP is realizing that calories DO matter, not just points.

Kris

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I am not a Dr - please check with your qualified Health Professional for a diagnosis and treatment plan


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EELPIE's Photo EELPIE Posts: 2,669
1/30/14 6:21 P

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"I did feel a little pressure to have a snack (yogurt) just because I had 4 points after dinner. I didn't need it, but I had the points left over."

Sigh.

The best exercise in the world is to bend down and help someone up.


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FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/30/14 6:05 P

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I'm just not a large group leader type. Public speaking and such scares me. That's really what I was saying

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AZULVIOLETA6's Photo AZULVIOLETA6 SparkPoints: (63,029)
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1/30/14 5:58 P

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"I am going to look at Meetup.com. I do like the idea of starting a group at the library, but I'm not much of one to go out and DO it."

Just because doing this kind of thing is not how you have defined yourself in the past doesn't mean that you can't try it out now. You are at the age where all possibilities are open and you can define your life in any way that you want...so go do it!

Dances: salsa (standard/LA), casino, rueda de casino, cumbia Colombiana, bachata, mambo, cha-cha-chá, merengue, reggaetón.

Currently learning: Mexican cumbia, danzón, Cuban rumba

Dances to Learn in the future: flamenco, tango Argentino, samba, belly dancing, bhangra, ballroom rumba


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FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/30/14 5:45 P

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Unfortunately, it isn't just the veggie thing. They made fun of me because I thought about bringing Dixie cups to a party for dip (which would also help me with portion control). They made fun of the fact that I had to deal with the same food temptations two holiday seasons in a row. The list goes on and on.

Twitter/Instagram: @FtSoLK (From the Scales of Lissa Kristine)

Facebook: "HoneyLissaBee.com's From the Scales of Lissa Kristine" (public page; "like")

ftsolkhoneylissabee.wordpress.com


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FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/30/14 5:33 P

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I'm giving tracking on here a try this week to see how I do. I double tracked on Tuesday because it did help me readjust to calorie counting. However, since I wasn't sure I was going to continue with calories, I did feel a little pressure to have a snack (yogurt) just because I had 4 points after dinner. I didn't need it, but I had the points left over.

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SLIMMERKIWI's Photo SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (135,633)
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1/30/14 5:29 P



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If whoever is attacking you for eating all the produce, they need to take a look at my Nutrition Tracker, as well as a number of others - LOL!

I generally eat around 10-14 serves a day. I USED to eat MORE!

Now, generally the 5+ a day has been revised UPWARD to 7 serves+ a day. I think that you need to eat what you LIKE and PREFER, but eat wisely, and hopefully healthfully.

I can't stand those who say you have to 'eat this' as in a specific food item, or 'don't eat that' - again specific items. It just comes down to common sense - eat within the range for you, and get a healthy mix of carbs (not processed), fats (hopefully mainly healthy ones) and lean protein, AND get a variety of fruit/veges daily, having a rainbow of colour.

Kris

Edited by: SLIMMERKIWI at: 1/30/2014 (17:44)
Co-Moderator Dealing with Depression
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Team Leader Essential Tremors :-) (Benign and Familial) www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
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Co-Leader Crohn's Can't Stop Me
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ndividual.asp?gid=17464


I am not a Dr - please check with your qualified Health Professional for a diagnosis and treatment plan


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LIS0707's Photo LIS0707 Posts: 71
1/30/14 5:17 P

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I'm glad you've gone about reporting the bullying - it's important to not let it get to you too much. Those people have issues of their own that they're never going to face up to unless they constantly get reminded that their behaviour is inappropriate. If you can block them, so much the better.

Maybe stick with the WW meetings for the rest of your paid up period, and yes, use the tracker so you can discuss things with your leader, but don't have it public.

In the meantime, if you're finding the SP tools and community better for you, look forward to making the transition fully in a couple of months when you're done with WW.

Also, people who are dumping on you for eating too many veges are probably just jealous that they can't seem to make it work for them. Sounds like you're doing pretty well, go you!



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BARBANAL's Photo BARBANAL Posts: 4,106
1/30/14 4:52 P

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Is a calorie of sugar the same as one of fruit, protein etc ????

God is good !


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ESCHULMA's Photo ESCHULMA SparkPoints: (103)
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1/30/14 4:24 P

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Calories are what matter at the end of the day. Points are a simplified way to help people track things. If WW is being obnoxious, one more reason to dump their system.

Some fruits can be high calorie. Bananas for example. I still eat them, but I track them too. Some vegetables like chickpeas and beans can be high calorie as well. Again, if you track everything, there are no surprises.

A separate issue with eating lots of vegetables is that your digestive system may protest (and not just over the extra fiber, which can be adjusted to). But if you are happy with them, and under your calorie limit (I'd ignore the points, honestly) you are fine.

STEPH057's Photo STEPH057 Posts: 252
1/30/14 4:02 P

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I tend to agree with EELPIE. At this point, it might be doing more harm to track with both. If you like WW and the points system and you're losing weight with it, stick with that program. Just use SP for the community, but don't track anywhere other than WW.

But if WW isn't really working for you and you aren't seeing the results you think you should, maybe stop tracking there for a while and switch over to just SP.

As I said, I also track with both. For me, it's mostly out of curiosity. I try to only pay attention to my WW points, but tracking calories is kind of a safety net for me. When I go over my points, it's refreshing to me to see that I'm still within my calorie range and I'm not as hard on myself.



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EELPIE's Photo EELPIE Posts: 2,669
1/30/14 3:53 P

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" I just think that there could be some flaws with the program in how it works for me. It's like fitting a round peg into a square hole. It just doesn't fit 100% perfectly."

This was told to you a week ago.

If you want to track you calories on here, track your calories on here. For me, it makes more sense, and I have found that it works. I'm about to reset my weight goal tracker down for the 3rd time down in 4 months.

Wanna know what worked the best for me? Tracking my numbers.

Trying to mesh both of these together is not working for you.


The best exercise in the world is to bend down and help someone up.


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FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/30/14 3:39 P

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Thank you, Azul

I generally don't touch my weekly points, but will use activity points.

I don't think there is anything wrong with WW. I just think that there could be some flaws with the program in how it works for me. It's like fitting a round peg into a square hole. It just doesn't fit 100% perfectly.

I am going to look at Meetup.com. I do like the idea of starting a group at the library, but I'm not much of one to go out and DO it.

Twitter/Instagram: @FtSoLK (From the Scales of Lissa Kristine)

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EELPIE's Photo EELPIE Posts: 2,669
1/30/14 3:13 P

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"I know the OP is going to ignore any and all input to this conversation. So I do ask myself "why bother" contributing to the thread. But maybe somebody-other-than-the-OP will gain some benefit from the conversation."

I feel your pain!

Anyway, for the record, I've nothing against WW - I never did it (ha ha... is it really this mind blowing?), but I have a good friend who lost weight on it just fine - had a good time, and made local friends at the meetings. It worked really good for her, and she raved about it...maybe she didn't overthink it?

The best exercise in the world is to bend down and help someone up.


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STEPH057's Photo STEPH057 Posts: 252
1/30/14 2:49 P

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As someone who tracks with both WW and SP, I've also noticed a discrepancy between points and calories - mine just tends to go the other way. I am either at (or just under) my points and WAY under my calories (like by 300-500), or I'm over my points but within my calorie range.

You mentioned that you go to meetings. I strongly encourage you to talk to your leader about things - specifically about your points vs. calorie intake. Maybe he/she can shed some light on how the WW program really works that will help explain things better? I've often wondered this myself, but I only have an eTools account and haven't found any good resources online.

Just a few questions, because I'm curious:

How do you handle your weekly points? Do you divide them up for the week and add 7 to each day? Or do you just use them as needed?

If you want to share, what's your daily points allowance? And calorie range? If you'd rather not share that, I understand :)

Edited by: STEPH057 at: 1/30/2014 (14:59)

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BUNNYKICKS's Photo BUNNYKICKS Posts: 2,328
1/30/14 2:38 P

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Ok now even though I have a preference for Spark, I gotta jump in and defend Weight Watchers just a little bit here. There is NOTHING in the WW system that inhibits or prohibits a person from eating lots of produce.

Now of course, the "free" zero point produce has the potential to be "abused" - that is, if you eat five hundred calories worth of zero-point foods, it's STILL FIVE HUNDRED CALORIES even though you can make it look like you are "under your points" on paper. I guess WW assumes that most people are not going to be physically capable of regularly eating five hundred calories-worth of bok choy each day... and they established their "guidelines" (note the word "Guideline" - it's a guide, not a law) based on how your typical person tends to eat.

So. The "typical" person doesn't eat as many fruits and veggies as they probably should. Now along comes a person that does eat a lot of fruit and veggies. But it's all "free" so they don't count any of it, and suddenly the magic WW formula 'isn't working' for them, because despite appearing to have low "points" they have excessive "calories". What to do, what to do? Throw the entire plan under the bus and announce it is a failure and that it promotes underconsumption of fruits and veggies? NO. How about instead, just be mindful when you are eating vastly more than "typical" in the fruits/veggies category. Once you've eaten more than a couple hundred calories-worth of "free" food, start counting a token point-per-serving beyond that. Voila. Now your points "look right"; you end the day at your minimum points or more, so you are not tempted to force yourself to eat to "meet the minimum" - all while keeping the calorie-count that those points represent within the range needed to promote weight loss.

The answer is so simple.

I know the OP is going to ignore any and all input to this conversation. So I do ask myself "why bother" contributing to the thread. But maybe somebody-other-than-the-OP will gain some benefit from the conversation.


Goal 1 - break 200 (46 pounds lost)**DONE**
Goal 2 - leave obesity behind (BMI 29.9, at 185#) **DONE**
Goal 3 - BMI = Normal (154# or less)


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AZULVIOLETA6's Photo AZULVIOLETA6 SparkPoints: (63,029)
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1/30/14 2:28 P

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"Right now, with calorie counting, things are shifting. I'm looking at number and thinking things like "if I have the 5 oz chicken breast instead of the 6 oz one, I can add another serving of brussels sprouts to my dinner" or "If I only have a quarter cup of ricotta pudding, I can have it with a cup of frozen cherries." I don't worry that I'm overeating, and before I considered that I could be overreating, I would have had a half cup of the pudding and a BAG of cherries... all within my points."

Yes, yes! This is great. By the way, I peeked at your tracker--you did great on January 28th in spite of eating out. If every day looked more like that, I think that you would really be on the right track.

Now if we could just convince you to exercise for more than 10 minutes a day. :)

Dances: salsa (standard/LA), casino, rueda de casino, cumbia Colombiana, bachata, mambo, cha-cha-chá, merengue, reggaetón.

Currently learning: Mexican cumbia, danzón, Cuban rumba

Dances to Learn in the future: flamenco, tango Argentino, samba, belly dancing, bhangra, ballroom rumba


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1/30/14 2:27 P

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I invited you to check out the sparkteam here on SP that was founded after PP proved to be a very flawed program for so many of us. I had a similar experience on the WW boards as Honylissabee did. In fact our leaders started with our own thread on the boards on WW and they kept deleting any post they didn't like. Eventually we moved here. We have a very supportive group.



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EELPIE's Photo EELPIE Posts: 2,669
1/30/14 2:02 P

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Some suggested you join their weight watchers team.

Did you join?

The best exercise in the world is to bend down and help someone up.


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1/30/14 1:38 P

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No. I am not ignoring him. I was simply making a point. WW is great for people who don't like veggies and fruit. I always exceed my 5 servings. It does help that I generally consider a portion of fruit to be about 1 cup. I fill half my plate with veggies, so I get a couple servings at each meal, and I have fruit and veggies with each snack.

Look at my lunch for today. I have about 5.5 servings there. I do suffer from full plate syndrome where I need to fill my plate. I just use a smaller plate, and I fill empty spaces (like in my lunch box) with fruit and veggies (mostly veggies).

And I like having a bedtime snack of fruit and a little treat. If I eat an orange in the morning, I've reached my 2 servings before noon.

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ALGEBRAGIRL Posts: 1,764
1/30/14 12:41 P

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In WW, the new thing with points plus is that fruits and vegetables have zero points. THAT's what's so strange about some Weight Watchers on a WW forum saying that you shouldn't fill up eating produce.

WW does nothing BUT encourage fruits and vegetables. Also, it's important to specify just what a serving is. A serving in the food pyramid is not the same as a serving on some other plan, for example.

WW made points plus fruit and vegetable heavy (encouraging with zero points) but ramped up the points plus count of some other foods (slightly, as far as I can tell). It's really about where the emphasis is - and the emphasis is definitely on fresh fruits and veggies.

The produce section of the supermarket is the area of the supermarket that takes a hit economically-speaking, because people are well aware of how fragile and perishable fresh fruits and veggies are. I got that information from a person in the food business who spoke at our local foods group meeting recently.

Anything that encourages a consumer to get past that hurdle is great, IMO.

Edited by: ALGEBRAGIRL at: 1/30/2014 (12:42)
EELPIE's Photo EELPIE Posts: 2,669
1/30/14 12:12 P

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So you are ignoring what Russell said.

The best exercise in the world is to bend down and help someone up.


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1/30/14 12:05 P

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Even sticking to 5 servings a day of produce may not be good enough on WW.

I will see how I do at my weigh in on Monday. If I do well, I may try to reintroduce my REST goals

Ranges (stay in or under my calorie range 6 days per week- under only applies to exercise calories)
Exercise (10 minutes 5-6 days per week minimum with 2 strength sessions)
Steps (10,000 steps per day)
Tracking (6-7 days per week)

I don't always track dinner on Mondays.

I will say that exercise is more rewarding on Spark. 240 calories gets me a SMALL sweet potato on WW (3 points). On here, it almost covers 2 tablespoons of peanut butter, celery, and raisins.

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1/30/14 11:02 A

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RUSSELL_39 makes a lot of good points.





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1/30/14 10:59 A

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2 cups of brown rice is comparable in calories to 2 cups of white rice but has 4 times more fiber!

carrots, brussels sprouts (my favorite), etc. have fiber, too. You're more likely to eat a cup of carrots (4 grams fiber) than 2 cups of brown rice (8 grams fiber). Or maybe not - depending on the dish you're preparing.

Remember when fiber was one of the factors when you figured your points, using your little slide ruler thingie? I was told at WW that fiber still figures in the points plus system, so it's still there..

Edited by: ALGEBRAGIRL at: 1/30/2014 (11:05)
SASAHAMMER Posts: 129
1/30/14 10:55 A

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During a routine check at my doctor's office she went through the standard health questionnaire about seat belt usage, alcohol, smoking, etc. When she asked me if I ate 5 servings of fruits and vegetables everyday I said no. She looked up from her computer to give me "the talk". Before she got started, I said "It's closer to 8 or 9". She laughed and said that's okay and then said she needed more patients like me.

I don't think this is cause for concern. Eat the nutrient dense, calorically sensible food that fills you up and makes you feel satisfied. I think you are a step ahead of most people!

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1/30/14 10:47 A

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Please think about what Russell just said.

"The idea that produce will make you fat is so ridiculous"

Why this concept is hard to grasp is literally hard for me to grasp!!!

Two cups cooked carrots has 100 calories (2 cups!!!)
Two cups green beans has 60 calories (2 cups!!!!)
Two cups brussel sprouts have 80 calories (2 cups!!!!)
Two cups green peppers have 40 calories (2 cups!!!!!)

2 cups of white rice have 400 calories.....just saying.


Edited by: EELPIE at: 1/30/2014 (10:47)
The best exercise in the world is to bend down and help someone up.


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1/30/14 10:32 A

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Wow I stumbled onto this thread. Many of us had similar experiences with WW. We have a sparkteam entitled ClassicWW/tuning the plan to meet our needs. It is a great group of supportive women that took refuge here after repeated incidents on the WW board. Come along and join us.



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RUSSELL_40's Photo RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
1/30/14 10:31 A

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You seem to be a smart person. Stop and ask yourself if 6 servings of vegetables will make you fat.

Of course not. I am currently eating around 5 due to be on very low carb, but I cycle it, and go as high as 10-12 a day, and continue to lose. Despite my problems with grains, which are loved by most, the rest of the food is pretty much rated accordingly. Sweets are obviously the worst, and green leafy veggies are probably the best. Eat more of the good stuff, and less of the bad stuff. People tend to focus on one food in particular, even those who do not have an issue, and what ends up happening is we hear eggs are bad, or bananas, or produce. Sure they may be for some people, but not for all, and while those that have an issue, like me and bread, pasta, potatoes, corn etc., will need to avoid them, but the rest of the food, can be enjoyed by the people who have no issue with them.

That leaves quantity, which is what someone told you was your problem.. too much produce...lol. Ignore the person and just laugh it off. The idea that produce will make you fat is so ridiculous that you should be re-thinking WW, and the idea that because someone is so focused on points, they ignore the obvious truth that most produce is healthier than anything else they will be eating, and more is usually better. Besides some high calorie vegetables, it will be almost impossible to eat enough vegetables to gain weight.

So, unless the person was worried about you undereating from being too full on produce ( 100 calories ), their concern is misplaced. Finding where one overeats is simple if you were to track it on SP. You would just look over at the calories, and note which food items were larger in calories, and think to yourself.. maybe the slice of cheesecake is a bigger problem than the 100 calories of produce! emoticon

Points for food allows interpretation of how much is a point, and what food to eat to get a point, and calories can vary wildly. Except for the idea that it cuts out some of the worst caloric offenders, it is amazing that it works at all. It might prevent you from becoming obese, but if it allows you to eat 1500 one day, and for the same points eat 1950 the next, if you need to stay below 1700 to lose, you probably won't move at all on the scale, and may tend with time to stray more towards the 1950 calorie menu, and actually gain. It ends up being a great way to not pay attention to calories, while keeping you from overindulging too much. So no one goes crazy on WW and gains a lot of weight, but many tend to slowly put on 3-5 lbs a year, which in a decade can be deadly. They just put the weight gain down to aging, because after all, they are on WW, a healthy plan.

I would get an SP calorie range, and stick to it, and see what happens. You can still use WW for the personal meetings,or set up your own free meetings. Calories matter. Even on low carb, and not following SP meal plans, I find that sticking to the Sparkrange works.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford


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1/30/14 9:57 A

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You are nothing BUT wise, HONEYLISSABEE! I used to love WW and used them - successfully - for a couple years.

But I think their Points system is deeply flawed, and I think they've only dug the hole deeper over the years...

So, I'd suggest ignoring that nonsense.



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FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/30/14 9:40 A

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I've always stuck to Sparkpeople for the support and message boards- even if I decided not to use the trackers. However, I thought that it would be a good idea to be more active on the WW boards since there are questions I have that I thought people who understood the program would be better suited to answer them.



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GRAYCATBIRD's Photo GRAYCATBIRD Posts: 1,596
1/30/14 8:47 A

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A lot of people have said things I agree with, but I really like what CallmeCarrie had to say. If it were me, I'd get off those message boards. If WW works for you, maybe just stick with the rest of the online program or go to f2gf meetings. The online environment can be brutal at times -- I guess some people don't care what they say, since no one is facing them in person. There are also very supportive online groups. In my experience, SP has been supportive. But it sounds like even here there are groups that are less than helpful. As for what to eat, I'd recommend asking someone who's in a position to know -- a nutritionist, a doctor, maybe one of the SP or WW experts. And even then, their knowledge can be questionable, because even those people sometimes fall for fad diets.

What a person eats should not be fodder for other people's judgments! It is not a moral issue.

Sue

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"Your stomach should not be a waste basket." -- Anonymous

Never, never, NEVER give up!



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1/30/14 8:37 A

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The thing about diet is is that it's all extremely personal. What works for you doesn't work for someone else. No two people eat exactly the same. Sometimes people think their way is the right way, which may be true for them but not for others.

Why participate in boards that are unsupportive?



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1/30/14 8:29 A

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Right now, with calorie counting, things are shifting. I'm looking at number and thinking things like "if I have the 5 oz chicken breast instead of the 6 oz one, I can add another serving of brussels sprouts to my dinner" or "If I only have a quarter cup of ricotta pudding, I can have it with a cup of frozen cherries." I don't worry that I'm overeating, and before I considered that I could be overreating, I would have had a half cup of the pudding and a BAG of cherries... all within my points.

Please read this carefully.

I think the light switch is clicking for you.


The best exercise in the world is to bend down and help someone up.


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1/30/14 8:10 A

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I am not on WW but that is simply ridiculous. I think of 3 servings of veg a day as the minimum not the only number of servings you are allowed. My plate's website says the key message is to make half of your plate vegetables. So are they saying your protein and starch combined should only be 1.5 cups worth of food a day? Color me confused.

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1/30/14 1:02 A

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I honestly don't go around talking about it much, but I did decide to post it on my blog(s), and I don't regret it. I needed to be open about it in order to fully heal/recover. I didn't post it on WW.

I'm not sure how good a username change would do. If anything I tell them sounds familiar, they will attack me. They're also not known for being welcoming to newcomers.

I just find it bizarre that they tell us to eat less fruit (my friend had ONE grapefruit on Tuesday), but more higher calorie foods. Right now, with calorie counting, things are shifting. I'm looking at number and thinking things like "if I have the 5 oz chicken breast instead of the 6 oz one, I can add another serving of brussels sprouts to my dinner" or "If I only have a quarter cup of ricotta pudding, I can have it with a cup of frozen cherries." I don't worry that I'm overeating, and before I considered that I could be overreating, I would have had a half cup of the pudding and a BAG of cherries... all within my points.



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ANARIE's Photo ANARIE Posts: 12,466
1/30/14 12:07 A



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Maybe now would be a good time for a username change on the WW boards so they can't connect you to what you wrote two years ago.

And I'm going to gently repeat a previous poster's suggestion that maybe you should re-think whether you're over-sharing. You should be proud of your recovery, but that doesn't mean you need to let *everyone* know about past problems. Definitely you should have a support group, but when you reveal information in an open forum, you never know who is going to get hold of that information. You're probably proud of your job, too, but that doesn't mean it's safe to post on Spark or WW the address of your workplace and the hours you'll be working. It's easy to think, "Oh, these people are all supposed to be here to help me," and 99.99% of the time that's true. But the 0.01% of the people who are bad can really do you some damage.

Consider getting a new name and starting clean there, and only share sensitive details with individuals who need to know.



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CALLMECARRIE's Photo CALLMECARRIE Posts: 1,598
1/29/14 8:12 P

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It sounds like you've come a long way towards emotional and physical health. Maybe it would be a good step to remove yourself from online environments where you feel battered and beat up. Weight loss is hard enough without any extra emotional struggle. Don't let them get you down, you're doing great!

"I owe everything you see here to spaghetti."

-Sophia Loren


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VAINVT Posts: 1,433
1/29/14 7:54 P

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No matter what you ate, you should not be bullied. Not just because it is wrong, but because the emotional aspects of eating are so important. WW is made up of many people, and it sounds like you got someone who was not be helpful.

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1/29/14 7:44 P

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It was on there.

I don't have a thick skin about a lot of things, but I'm usually ok with mentioning that years ago, I struggled with cutting myself. I've managed to put it behind me, and I no longer identify myself as a "cutter".

However, people on there went too far. They were mocking me about this. Every time I post something, someone will bring up something I posted 2 years ago. They don't bother answering my questions. They are too busy bullying me.

And I will admit that I tend to get more "emotional" in writing than I actually do in person, but the person who started making fun of my history of depression really hurt me.

My skin is a lot thicker than you think.


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1/29/14 6:17 P

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Are you saying that you were being attacked on a WW board, or here on Spark?

If you are talking about the thread here from a couple of days ago where you listed two days of eating and asked for feedback...I saw lots of people trying to help you there. You absolutely DO NOT have a thick skin Lissa...you are incredibly sensitive and take all kinds of things as criticism when it doesn't seem that they are intended that way at all. Your idea of brutal may actually just be direct or stern.

If you are going to share what you are doing, you have to be willing to consider reasonable advice and to ignore unreasonable advice. Obviously there is nothing wrong with eating 100 calories worth of most vegetables, so that is someone you can put on ignore. Not all produce is created equal though, and a lot of FRUIT could be harming your diet...not a 100 calories worth, but if you eat 500 calories worth of fruit a day that could be a problem.

Please be careful about sharing very personal, private information about yourself in any public forum. If there is something that you are sensitive about, it's probably best just not to put that out there for strangers to see.

Dances: salsa (standard/LA), casino, rueda de casino, cumbia Colombiana, bachata, mambo, cha-cha-chá, merengue, reggaetón.

Currently learning: Mexican cumbia, danzón, Cuban rumba

Dances to Learn in the future: flamenco, tango Argentino, samba, belly dancing, bhangra, ballroom rumba


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1/29/14 5:09 P

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I'm not familiar with the WW points system, but this is just my two cents on eating produce:

I don't feel like you can eat too much produce, unless that is the ONLY thing you are eating and nothing else; or you're eating hundreds of calories worth of fruit which would stall your weight loss.

Eating a lot of produce fills you up, and gives you a satisfied feeling so you're not tempted to munch on unhealthier foods. This has been a good strategy for my weight loss. When I started with SparkPeople I made a conscious effort to eat a minimum of 5 servings of produce per day, sometimes a lot more, keeping in mind to not go over my calorie limit. All the produce has been quite filling and has helped me stick with my healthy eating plan.

I wouldn't worry about what other people want to say about what you choose to do on your eating plan. If you feel good eating 100 calories worth of produce, and are filled up by this, and you know you could have eaten 100 calories worth of one tiny chocolate which is totally unfilling, then who are they to judge?

Keep up the good work!
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Failure is not the falling down; it's the staying down.

"You must go through the valley to stand upon the mountain of God." --Mac Powell


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ACHANSO's Photo ACHANSO Posts: 961
1/29/14 3:50 P

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Yes, I would suggest not sharing your food diary.
Your choices are up to you--eating and food preferences are a very personal thing. I know that there are certain foods I would much rather "spend" calories on than my husband, and vice versa. The best diet plan needs to be a plan that works for you, that you can carry out without scrutiny.

CALLMECARRIE's Photo CALLMECARRIE Posts: 1,598
1/29/14 3:27 P

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And obviously, telling someone not to fill up on product is ridiculous. If they meant don't eat ten pounds of grapes in one sitting, yeah, OK, but we all know eating fruits and vegetables is a good thing.

"I owe everything you see here to spaghetti."

-Sophia Loren


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CALLMECARRIE's Photo CALLMECARRIE Posts: 1,598
1/29/14 3:24 P

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HONEYLISSABEE, you don't deserve that. I personally wouldn't go back more than once for that kind of abuse. People don't log on to message boards on weight loss sites to be ridiculed or belittled. If the administrators don't do anything about it, I would revisit the actual meetings but definitely not the message boards.

"I owe everything you see here to spaghetti."

-Sophia Loren


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ROSSTECH215's Photo ROSSTECH215 Posts: 46
1/29/14 3:21 P

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I'm feeling like no matter what "diet" you choose to be on, veggies should never be questioned. Eat away. It'll benefit you more than a snickers bar any day. Fruits I'd be slightly more conservative with due to the sugar. But really, nobody became obese by over indulging on veggies, maybe just a little dehydrated from diarrhea (sorry lol). If 100 calories worth of veggies keeps you full so you wont indulge on junk food I hardly see the harm. Also, you have to know what works for your body. A lot of these diet plans are cut and dry and suppose to work for everyone, which I don't agree with. Everyone's needs vary and the way you eat should be adjusted accordingly. A healthy lifestyle doesn't always mean avoiding everything you like, you can be healthy by eating well and exercising. Even if you aren't at your "ideal weight" (according to doctors or what you perceive it to be) you can still feel good about yourself knowing you are doing the best you can for the body you were given. End rant :-)

Edited by: ROSSTECH215 at: 1/29/2014 (15:22)

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1/29/14 3:14 P

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He had a portion of a bag of green beans (97 calories), a grapefruit, (96 calories) and spaghetti squash (54 calories)

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1/29/14 3:04 P

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I guess I'm puzzled by your statement that someone 'attacked' you for eating more than 5 servings of vegetables? How can it be that this person goes to WW? At WW meetings, the only thing that has been publicly repeated by the leader in my meetings has been: 'Overeating vegetables is not the problem' or something similar to that like, 'No one gets fat by overeating fruits and vegetables.'

I know that it's calories and really only going over your calorie limit that leads to weight gain so I don't argue with those statements and they do make sense to me. I buy one of those bags of pre-washed salad from the supermarket and I see that 1.5 cups is a serving according to the producer (Dole) and there are 2.5 servings in a bag. Now, I usually make a salad with the entire bag. A serving is all of 20 calories (!!!!) so if that's overeating, then I'm overeating with just 50 calories. How absurd is that!

Where the calories come from is the oil (fat) that dresses the salad, or whatever dresses the salad that contains fat. I 'dress' my salad with non-fat shredded cheese. It's very low in calories, contains protein and doesn't have fat so it's not a load of calories.

Any WW leader I've ever heard talk would say it's the points (calories) that count. Once upon at time, WW specified that you had to eat this much of this and that much of that and you checked all the items off every day. It was low calorie and it worked. Today's program is much more flexible and I think much more tasty.

Edited by: ALGEBRAGIRL at: 1/29/2014 (15:05)
STEPH057's Photo STEPH057 Posts: 252
1/29/14 2:58 P

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Is your friend eating significantly more fruit vs. vegetables? That's the only way I can imagine he's be under points but over calories. I track with both WW and SP, and I find that when I'm under my points allowance, I'm also under my calorie allowance. I think this is because I tend to eat a lot more veggies than fruit.

I really don't like the WW community. I was thinking about starting to post to my blog again on their site, but this might have changed my mind!



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1/29/14 2:49 P

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I've been on a reporting spree on there, but no action has been taken so far. I even decided to post a picture of a particularly rude post on Instagram and tagged WW in it (@ftsolk if you want to see it. No bad language- it's just downright cruel).

The message boards have really been turning me off from WW, and I'm not sure about continuing. On one hand, I'm sure my success on the program so far may be related to going to meetings every week and weighing in, but I also don't really want to pay for the materials and not use them.

I'm paid through March 31, so I will keep going to meetings and weighing in, but I'm leaning towards tracking on here. I was double tracking yesterday, but today, I've just been tracking on here.

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CORTNEY-LEE's Photo CORTNEY-LEE SparkPoints: (53,930)
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1/29/14 1:53 P

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I was told by my old WW leader that 0 point fruit and veggies were to encourage people to eat more fresh veggies and fruit, but we are still to stay within the "healthy guidelines" of 3 servings of veggies and 2 servings of fruit.

I never cared for the WW boards - the people there were always less than helpful





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VALCRAFTS's Photo VALCRAFTS Posts: 92
1/29/14 1:38 P

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I think I would report them to the WW administrator. There is no reason to be mean to others who are there for support too. The same goes for Spark People boards, the American Diabetes boards (I had a similar experience on there). The whole idea is to support one another.
emoticon
Wanted to add that if they are doing this to you they are probably doing it to others.

Edited by: VALCRAFTS at: 1/29/2014 (13:41)
Val
Formally FP4HLoser

"If we look at this as a spiritual journey, it won’t be such a big deal if we eat too much. We’ll just renew our minds and move on." Barb Raveling (Author of I Deserve a Donut"


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MOOSEMOON SparkPoints: (8,684)
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1/29/14 1:36 P

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Before WW went to their current plan you got charged points for everything - fruits and veggies included. I always maintained when I was doing the previous WW program that "no one ever got fat, eating too many fruits and vegetables". So I kept to my points and didn't really worry about that extra fresh fruit or veggie. It worked for me and now WW has kind of gone the same way.

I don't think it's prudent to count points and calories. Both WW and SP have great programs but they focus differently. You will be well nourished on either program. I think points are easy and calories require a little more work but maybe that's just me.

Keep up the good work. Don't let the jealous 'haters' move you off the path!

FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/29/14 1:11 P

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These people are just plain bullies. If they can't find something to harass me about in my current post, they'll dig up twisted versions of something I posted 2-3 years ago. They'll stalk me online (I'm waiting for them to comment on this post on there). It's worse than high school!

Twitter/Instagram: @FtSoLK (From the Scales of Lissa Kristine)

Facebook: "HoneyLissaBee.com's From the Scales of Lissa Kristine" (public page; "like")

ftsolkhoneylissabee.wordpress.com


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DIDS70's Photo DIDS70 Posts: 5,070
1/29/14 1:00 P

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on all social media and this site included- Haters will hate. You step outside the comfort zone or do something that someone else can't and worse- making a success of it, people will be mean and blunt. Thick skin or not, it does hurt. It does bring down confidence levels.

I never used the message boards on WW so I don't know if it is similar to these. Though this is more designed as a "weightloss" site, it is still social media and people will say whatever they want.

the only two people I shared my log with when I was in WW was my leader and my doctor.

Good luck sticking with it.

:)


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MISSRUTH's Photo MISSRUTH Posts: 3,671
1/29/14 12:44 P

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If I was over my calories, I'd be looking at my choices in food other than vegetables like green beans and (maybe) fruit. If I was over and ate 6 fruits, maybe I'll need to cut back on those a bit. But if the only fruit I ate all day was a grapefruit..... I'd look at the calories in some of my other choices that day.

I've never done Weight Watchers except sort of casually, a billion years ago, before they came out with the whole points thing, so I don't know exactly how someone could be over on the calories but under on the points. Maybe something more calorie-dense, that WW assigns a lower point value to? I don't know their methodology for points assignments for foods.

I'd agree with the pp's-- If other WW people are going to blast you for eating a lot of low starch vegetables and (a moderate amount of) fruit.... I'd quit sharing my food log with them.

Ruth in Cookeville, TN Central Time Zone


Promise me you'll always remember: You're braver than you believe, and stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think - Christopher Robin to Pooh


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FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/29/14 12:43 P

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I think I just needed to vent. The rude comments on there have gone beyond being "blunt" and have escalated to downright MEAN. People there are poking fun of my history of depression (which I've made a lot of progress through in the past few years), twisting around everything I say. They are downright vicious, and even though I have a thick skin when it comes to being bullied- especially about cutting, the people on there are pushing it too far.

In fact, their online community is part of why I haven't been able to stick to WW long-term.

Twitter/Instagram: @FtSoLK (From the Scales of Lissa Kristine)

Facebook: "HoneyLissaBee.com's From the Scales of Lissa Kristine" (public page; "like")

ftsolkhoneylissabee.wordpress.com


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BUNNYKICKS's Photo BUNNYKICKS Posts: 2,328
1/29/14 11:51 A

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" Apparently, eating more than that is a BAD thing."

Uhm. Based on a comment or two from random-anonymous people on a message board that "brutally attacked" you (lol?).

Why are you listening to that sort of feedback? Do what you know is best for you.

Goal 1 - break 200 (46 pounds lost)**DONE**
Goal 2 - leave obesity behind (BMI 29.9, at 185#) **DONE**
Goal 3 - BMI = Normal (154# or less)


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DIDS70's Photo DIDS70 Posts: 5,070
1/29/14 11:50 A

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i don't like the point system in relation to fruits and veggies on the WW plan. That is the main reason I quit WW. I also was told that my lifestyle was not conducive to the WW philosophy. To be honest it is not conducive to the SP philosophy either.
I went raw several years ago. Though I am not always 100% raw I do tend to stay between 60-90%. the 90% is more in the summer since fruits and veggies are more plentiful.

I do watch my fruit intake by trying to stay with the low glycemic fruits that get mixed in my smoothies, but veggies are a HUGE part of my diet (probably close to 9 servings). So as you pointed out, I would be at my calories but way under on points since most of my points come from fats, nuts and seeds.

If it is working for you and you are losing weight and you can stick with it through maintenance, you should be ok.

:)


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FTSOLK's Photo FTSOLK Posts: 1,244
1/29/14 11:29 A

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I decided to share my food diary on Weight Watchers since I've been following the plan for a couple months, and I was brutally attacked for the amount of produce I'm eating. On WW, I'm often under my points (though, my best friend is more likely to be under his points, but over his calories).

Now, we both know that we'd have to eat a lot of produce to stop losing weight. However, I am trying to stick to as close to an average of 2 pound a week as possible. I know it is a bit of a stretch goal, but if I can lose 40 pounds in 5 months, I'll be at a healthy weight by my 23rd Birthday.

Our concern, however, is that my friend ate around 196 calories of 0 point fruit and vegetables (1 grapefruit and some green beans). Yet, he was still over his calories and under his points.

So, do you think it's important to stick to the standard 1/2 cup (except for leafy greens) serving size of fruits and vegetables, and to only eat 5 servings a day? Apparently, eating more than that is a BAD thing.

There are days I'm past my 5 servings by lunchtime- without snacking, and eating mostly vegetables.

Twitter/Instagram: @FtSoLK (From the Scales of Lissa Kristine)

Facebook: "HoneyLissaBee.com's From the Scales of Lissa Kristine" (public page; "like")

ftsolkhoneylissabee.wordpress.com


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