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Low-carb versus low-fat versus versus vegan???



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RUSSELL_40
RUSSELL_40's Photo Posts: 16,244
8/19/13 9:53 A

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I think it is important to remember that the OP has a medical condition that limits her fat intake.

Since energy comes from either fat, or carbs, with protein remaining at 20-30%, the lower the fat, the higher the carbs.

Red - you are going to have to aim for lower glycemic/ high fiber carbs, so you can have more servings of carbs, while maintaining a stable blood sugar. Some low fat protein will help you lower carbs consumed as well. You can only eat 400 calories from fat ( 45 g ), so at the very most, that will only be 33%. If you eat 1600 calories, it will be just 25%.

At that point, protein, and carbs will make up 75% of your diet. If 30% is protein, then 45% will come from carbs. At 1600 calories, that is 720 calories, or 180 grams of carbs. This makes the low carber in me cringe, but it is YOUR reality. You will already be at 45 g fat, and 120 g protein ( 30 % ), and the only thing left is carbs.

The difference will be in how you get to 180 grams of carbs. I eat 61 grams today , which is 1/3 of that number, but get 15 grams of fiber. At 180, you could have 45 grams of fiber. My carbs are tomatoes, mushrooms, and peas. So not very high fiber. It is not like I eat bran.

So you could be eating 27 servings of vegetables, and getting 45 grams of fiber if you triple what I eat for carbs. I doubt you will want that many veggies, so you will probably eat some beans, which also have fiber, and protein. You can get 45 grams of fiber quite easily if you want, this way, and at 180, still have just 135 NET carbs, which may be enough to keep blood sugars low.

If you eat less food, the percentage of fat would be higher, and the percentage of carbs would be lower, as well as how many NET carbs overall. That is what you need to go back to the dietitian for. They will be able to explain which carbs will not spike your blood sugar as much, and help you get X amount of carbs, and X amount of fiber, and work out a meal plan to follow.

You may not be able to eat very low carb, but you can follow the principles, and eat " lower " carb. You will probably end up on something between the " diabetic " diet, and very low carb, but avoid white grains, corn, potatoes etc. that spike blood sugars.

Since you fat, and protein are pretty much set, you will have to eat more carbs, and use the dietitian to help achieve what you want. If the dietitian isn't comfortable with it, get a new one. They work for you, and should be able to help you achieve YOUR goals, not THEIRS.

The only issue that may make a difference is your health issues. There may be some other things that you need to address, that you haven't stated here. If you follow random advice verbatim, you could do harm to yourself. A dietitian will take your wishes, as well as your health concerns, and give you your options. Any example given on here should be used as a discussion, so that you can make up a plan to present to a dietitian, and the two of you can than make some compromises, and settle on a plan that makes you both happy, and addresses your health needs, as well as you spiking blood sugars.



Russell - current BMI 28.6
197 - bmi 30 - done
164 - bmi-25


 current weight: 181.0 
 
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SLIMMERKIWI
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8/18/13 8:22 P



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If you haven't been back to the Dietitian and told her what is happening, then you need to make another appointment and go, armed with your printouts from the Nutrition Tracker, and records of your blood sugars. This is a good example of not everyone is the same.

Kris

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I am not a Dr - please check with your qualified Health Professional for a diagnosis and treatment plan


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AZULVIOLETA6
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8/18/13 5:25 P

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Where are your carbs coming from? If you are getting your carbs from vegetables, legumes, whole grains and (very limited amounts of ) fruit, you are more likely to lose weight and not have blood sugar spikes. The type of carbs that you consume do matter--a lot.

I was pre-diabetic, and I find that around 100 G of carbs per day is ideal for me as long as I am not eating white flour, white rice, pasta, etc. I get most of my carbs from oatmeal, whole wheat, salads, beans and whole fruits.

I find that I cannot reach my nutritional goals and keep my carbs low enough on a vegetarian diet. I was a vegetarian for 20 years and don't like meat much (still don't eat red meat) but I can't keep my numbers in the right place without it.

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NIRERIN
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8/18/13 5:18 P

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what did the dietitian recommend changing when you told him/her about the higher blood sugar with that particular diet?

-google first. ask questions later.



REDMOUNTAIN
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8/18/13 4:54 P

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Thanks for all the great advice. I have seen a doctor and dietitian, but find the amount of carbs the dietitian recommends causes higher blood sugars.

The journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Let go and let God.


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SUNSHINE6442
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8/18/13 12:50 P

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Russell is right on point...low carb is not dangerous for a diabetic! The usual recommendation is between 30-45 carbs per meal and 15 carb for a snack 3 times a day equaling 180 carbs. I, personally try to stay to 30 carbs per meal.

I agree with Russell......It's how much and what kind of carbs you eat. Complex carbs are slow digesting and they don't raise blood sugar as fast as simple carbs.

Yes, Fiber and water are a diabetics best friends...Low fat protein...sirloin, pork loin, flank steak, chicken without the skin, turkey breast.

A healthy diet should include 2 to 3 servings of lean protein each day...good protein choices are......
Fage 0% plain Yogurt, cottage cheese, flaxseeds, chia seeds, quinoa and kasha which are extremely high in protein, barley, Beans and nuts are also good choices of plant based proteins... Pumpkin seeds are especially high in protein, low in calories and fat. Sunflower seeds have protein & almonds are particularly high in protein, peanut butter, Parm and Romano cheese..

Also

Pepitas
They have a nutty flavor and a touch of pumpkin's sweetness. They are high in phosphorous and are a good source of magnesium and zinc, iron and copper. 1 Ounce has 8 Grams of protein making them a smart snack or salad addition. Pepitas are already shelled.

Gouda is a good source of protein. Get the low fat version and eat 1 ounce sliced thin.

Wasabi Peas are high amounts of protein, which add up to 4.3 g per 1-oz. serving.
Get at Trader Joe's or WALGREENS...watch the carb count

Eat at least 100 carbs grams daily so your body does not go into a state of ketosis....

Lots of research has validated the Mediterranean diet’s ability to prevent cardiovascular disease because of its emphasis on produce, monounsaturated fats, and protein from fish and other forms of protein, with only a small amount from red meat....same for diabetics.

Check with your diabetic doctor about taking a CoQ10 Supplement for your heart as CoQ10 supplements have been shown to increase heart energy, reduce LDL oxidation and inhibit coronary heart disease...it also enables the mitochondria to produce energy, works as a strong antioxidant, increasing energy production in the heart.....increasing the heart’s ability to contract, lowering blood pressure, heart failure, angina, hypertension and heart attack...100MG of CoQ10...Trader Joe's has a 90 day supply for $17.99 If you have documented heart disease you doctor may up your dose to about 200 mg per day.


Check with a qualified health professional for individual advice as all diabetics are different and this is not mea nt to be medical advice.

Edited by: SUNSHINE6442 at: 8/18/2013 (13:11)


RUSSELL_40
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8/18/13 11:21 A

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I am a low carber who is diabetic, and has CHF. The low carb has improved my conditions, getting me off all my diabetes, and cholesterol meds. Don't listen to the people saying low carb is dangerous.

Of course, you may want to just skip the more rigorous levels of low carb, and just start at 100 grams of the best carbs you can eat. You can still eat the Atkins approved carb list, just eat more vegetables, and cut out some fat, by eating lean meats. That way you will eat clean carbs, which will have almost as many veggies as a vegan diet. No reason to not eat 10-15 servings of vegetables, and a couple of low glycemic servings of fruit, or some beans to fill in your menu. Remember the carbs counted is NET carbs, so total - fiber. High fiber veggies will allow you to eat more carbs. You should be able to round out your diet with a few servings of low fat protein.

Low carb is a range, not one set of rules for the diet. Some are at Induction ( 20 g ), and others go as high as 120-140 g a day on maintenance. You don't necessarily have to be super low on carbs to be on a low carb diet. What is a constant is that they avoid, or severely limit carbs that cause them cravings/ weight gain, or in the case of diabetics, high blood sugar. As your fat goes down, your carbs will come up, since we either burn fat or carbs for fuel, in a mixture, depending on the main emphasis of our diet. So go ahead and eat quality carbs, and the lower fat required by your medical condition, and if it works for you, don't worry about what to call it. At that point it will just be the way you eat.

Your doctor will probably be clueless, so just tell him to refer you to a dietitian, and explain your goals/plan to the dietitian, and see if it is feasible. Together you can work out a meal plan. Hope you get things sorted out. It may be harder to lose with medical issues, but not impossible.

Russell - current BMI 28.6
197 - bmi 30 - done
164 - bmi-25


 current weight: 181.0 
 
361
311.75
262.5
213.25
164


BUBBLEJ1
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8/18/13 1:44 A

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I'm with Kris on this one - You need to see a doctor and get referred to a dietician

~Jess~

There are no shortcuts. No magic bullets. No secret spells. What works is hard work, dedication, and a daily dose of chocolate.


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SLIMMERKIWI
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8/18/13 12:42 A



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I think you would be best off asking your Dr for a referral to a Registered Dietitian. You have medical conditions, including diabetes, which needs to be considered. The Dietitian is the person qualified to help you on this one!

Good luck
Kris

Co-Moderator Dealing with Depression
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Team Leader Essential Tremors :-) (Benign and Familial) www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=30225


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I am not a Dr - please check with your qualified Health Professional for a diagnosis and treatment plan


 current weight: 151.0 
 
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ICEDEMETER
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8/17/13 10:24 P

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They're all spouting nonsense - my diet is best!

Just joking around, since I know exactly what you mean about all of the competing claims, but I am quite serious that my diet is best --- best for *me*.

That's what you're really looking for: the diet that's best for you, and it may very well be a mish-mash of information that you've gleaned from all of the competing sources. Quite simply, you're looking for a diet that gives you all of the nutrition, doesn't spike your blood sugars, and leaves you feeling your best. Ideally, it includes all foods that you really enjoy so that it's something that you can follow forever.

I'm not sure what negatives on cardiac health you are concerned with on a lower carb diet, since I haven't seen any studies showing that as an issue. That might be a topic for you to cover with your doctor, and ideally with a dietitian that is also a diabetes educator. If you haven't seen one, then you really should get a referral as they can be a tremendous help with setting up the diet that is right for you.

To start with, you might want to consider joining one of the low carb teams here on Spark to chat with others who have chosen that route. There are a lot of very knowledgeable folks there who can share their research with you to give you more info on which to base your decision.

I'd also recommend that you start tracking some of the micro-nutrients (fibre, iron, B12, calcium, and sodium) to start seeing what foods you might need to include in order to get your minimums on these.

Before you get in to see a dietitian, did you want to do some experimenting to see what feels right to you? You didn't mention just how much you have limited your carbs that resulted in fatigue, so maybe you might want to start with around 180g per day (45 per meal, plus 15 in each of 3 snacks) and see how you feel with that. I strongly recommend that you be very particular of which carbs you choose, to make sure that you are getting the maximum nutrition from them. In other words, skip anything white, processed, or starchy and concentrate on veggies. If you're feeling ok at that level but are still having blood sugar spikes, then start gradually dropping the carb levels until you reach a point where the spikes stop but you're not feeling fatigued. Contrarily, you might want to start at the lower end for carbs, and work your way up until you don't feel fatigued but the blood sugar spikes haven't kicked in.

It is confusing, but focus on finding the combination that is best for you.

Good luck!

Start weight: 240 lbs
Goal weight: 155 lbs (reached March 7, 2014)

Afraid of a colonoscopy? Believe me - they are much less frightening than surgery and chemotherapy.

Colonoscopies allow polyps to be removed before they can become cancer, or let cancers be found before they are too widespread. If you are 50 or older, or have any symptoms, please don't let fear stop you from covering your butt.

Get checked!


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REDMOUNTAIN
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8/17/13 9:09 P

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I am a diabetic and eating very many carbs causes my blood sugar to spike. I find if I limit my carbs, I don't get as hungry, but I get fatigued. I can't eat much fat because of a medical condition.

I see different thoughts on the ideal diet and they say theirs is the best, and they have studies and success stories, Atkins, Ornish, all of them. It is so confusing. I do know if I eat a vegan, heart healthy Ornish type diet, my blood sugar goes way up, but eating lower carb, I worry about the negatives on cardiac health.

The journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Let go and let God.


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