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KJFITNESSDUDE
Posts: 15,787
8/1/11 6:59 P

....bummer.....



GRACEFULIFE
Posts: 1,705
7/31/11 10:01 P

*looks for whipping a dead horse emoticon*

std.disclaimer: No actual horses were harmed in the making of this thread.

Edited by: GRACEFULIFE at: 7/31/2011 (22:02)


BREWMASTERBILL
SparkPoints: (31,080)
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Posts: 4,110
7/30/11 1:41 P

emoticon



MHCORRGI
SparkPoints: (117)
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Posts: 13
7/30/11 1:17 P

I think this horse is officially dead.



GRACEFULIFE
Posts: 1,705
7/30/11 9:50 A

Not to keep flogging a dead horse here, but I am hundred fifty tousand percent sure the cellulite thing is bunk. At least any more than any other weight loss approach that works for you.



MHCORRGI
SparkPoints: (117)
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Posts: 13
7/29/11 12:59 P

Not to keep flogging a dead horse here, but that's why I liked PB a little more than the more strict paleo is because he advocates the 80/20 philosophy after you've lost weight, which makes sense in any long-term eating program, really. Moderation and consistency seem to be my biggest obstacles no matter what I'm doing. If only there were a cupcake and champagne diet that worked, I'd look like Cindy friggin' Crawford.



GRACEFULIFE
Posts: 1,705
7/29/11 11:47 A

Nice, it turns out that there's a very good addition to Occam, entitled Einstein's Razor (according to the wiki entry on him): “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.” or “Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler.” This is evidently a warning against _too much_ simplicity. So between Occam and Einstein, chop it down as much as possible, but not too much.

So, fitting to the spark approach, it's all about balance. Wow, go figure.



BREWMASTERBILL
SparkPoints: (31,080)
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Posts: 4,110
7/29/11 7:20 A

"the razor is a principle that suggests we should tend towards simpler theories until we can trade some simplicity for increased explanatory power."

Most of the diets out there are exactly the opposite. They inject complexity for no proven benefit. This is the "shortcut" that people think they're finding to lose weight faster/easier. I have found no scientifically proven shortcut that works.

But still let me reiterate that I don't find this diet to be particularly bad. I think the strictness is probably unnecessary, but eating whole food with gobs of protein is something I tend to shoot for. Pair in your "refeeds" to keep the psychological factors at bay (twinkies, cupcakes, BEER, bacon, etc) and I see a recipe for long term success.

The best diet for you is the one that works and one you can stick to.

Edited by: BREWMASTERBILL at: 7/29/2011 (07:20)


KJFITNESSDUDE
Posts: 15,787
7/29/11 6:08 A

Sturgeon's Law
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sturgeon's Revelation, commonly referred to as Sturgeon's Law, is an adage derived from quotations by Theodore Sturgeon, an American science fiction author. While Sturgeon coined another adage that he termed "Sturgeon's Law", it is his "Revelation" that is usually referred to by that term. Commonly cited as "ninety percent of everything is crud" or "ninety percent of everything is crap", the phrase was derived from Sturgeon's observation that while science fiction was often derided for its low quality by critics, it could be noted that the majority of examples of works in other fields could equally be seen to be of low quality and that science fiction was thus no different in that regard to other art.




MHCORRGI
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7/29/11 1:52 A

Oh trust me, the more of these posts I read on sparkpeople, the more I engage Sturgeon's law.



GRACEFULIFE
Posts: 1,705
7/28/11 9:43 P

Mark Sisson == sensibility fail.

I highly suggest taking dietary advice from actual nutritionists. Note Mark's background as an athlete (read: bro).

Broscience alert level raised to yellow.

Nearly mandatory disclaimer: I'm also not saying his advice wouldn't work for some, if not most. But it partly depends on your definition of "work" and the time scale you'd expect for that as well. If you like the sound of it, try it - and that goes for every other approach too. But BrewmasterBill's suggestion of Occam's Razor would be a good one to keep in mind when considering WHY something works for you. I also, personally, like to keep Sturgeon's Law in mind.

Edited by: GRACEFULIFE at: 7/28/2011 (21:53)


MHCORRGI
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7/28/11 7:07 P

Huh?



KJFITNESSDUDE
Posts: 15,787
7/28/11 6:53 P

Ah, the search for that one "Shortcut" to rule them all! Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!



TURTLESDOVE
Posts: 1,061
7/28/11 6:22 P

thanks. You, too. Actually, I haven't had a twinkie in a couple of years. I like to eat doritoes and drink Seagrams margarita. Also, on occasion, I make these peanut butter bars that I'm addicted to. But anyway, you get the message.



MHCORRGI
SparkPoints: (117)
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7/28/11 6:10 P

The cellulite part is what got me interested too! And I'm having the same problem with that damn twinkie...only my particular drug of choice is cupcakes and candy. I think it all boils down to finding the fit that works for you personally, for the rest of your life, not something you go on and off. I just need to lose my insatiable cravings for carbs and sugar, and paleo/primal people seem to mention that a lot. I just entered "paleo" on spark and found a few other threads that were interesting. Best of luck!



TURTLESDOVE
Posts: 1,061
7/28/11 5:54 P

oh yes, I like the part about reduction in cellulite. Everytime I lose weight, I still have noticeable cellulite. I hate that stuff. Now I am interested. If only I could put down this twinkie!! LOL



MHCORRGI
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7/28/11 5:44 P

I guess I should amend my first post. What brought me to Primal Blueprint in the first place was a friend of mine who lost about 25 lbs. using that method. She didn't reach her goal weight, but she hasn't gained any back either. She also talked about a visible reduction in her cellulite, which is a huge annoyance for most women I know. And she said she felt great, lost her sugar/carb cravings, etc. All in all, she felt it was a sustainable lifestyle that she could stick with. But that's just one person's experience; I was hoping to find more.

As far as any scientific proof for his diet, of course I don't have any. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of "scientific evidence" because I think interpretations of studies can be manipulated and one-sided. (Something I've gleaned from my "supposed" hundreds of websites and books I've read.) Bottom line, if it works, it works, and it worked for my friend. I've been counting calories, keeping calendars, charts, graphs and food lists for years and it's gotten me nowhere in terms of long-term success. You know that old saying about how doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome is insanity? That's kind of where I'm at right now.

I was just hoping to find others who had tried PB so I could hear about their experiences. I'll keep looking elsewhere.

Oh, and by the way, congratulations on your weight loss success. That's a huge accomplishment and is very inspirational, and I have nothing but the utmost respect for that feat.

MC



TURTLESDOVE
Posts: 1,061
7/28/11 4:59 P

very well put.

Edited by: TURTLESDOVE at: 7/28/2011 (16:59)


BREWMASTERBILL
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7/28/11 4:48 P

Ya, I haven't really given up anything that I didn't want to give up. I have cut back on beer a bit, but truth be told, I needed to anyway. I certainly don't eat out as much as I used to, but I still eat out.

This is all very doable, but people try to make it hard with all of these rules and guidelines and then get mad at themselves when they "fall off the wagon". Just stay within your calorie range, eat what fuels your workout and keeps you feeling full ... schedule in the occasional binge and be done. If that doesn't work, THEN try something else.



TURTLESDOVE
Posts: 1,061
7/28/11 4:40 P

good, I just like it when someone else doesn't give up what they like and lose weight, too.




BREWMASTERBILL
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7/28/11 4:35 P

I guess it depends on what your definition of junk is. If anything that isn't whole food is junk, then yes, daily. I also schedule regular "refeeds" where I basically eat whatever. I do this once every couple of weeks or so. Also, if the missus is cooking anything, I always eat that. Since she rarely cooks, when she does, I eat it. I also enjoy cereal a few times a week. But its in my calorie budget, so it doesn't matter. The weight still comes off.



TURTLESDOVE
Posts: 1,061
7/28/11 4:32 P

yeah, there is no way I could live on meat only for the rest of my life. Back then, yes,cause we never knew junk food existed so we didn't miss what we didn't have. Do you eat junk food?



BREWMASTERBILL
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7/28/11 4:24 P

But those would be caveman chips and margaritas, right? emoticon



TURTLESDOVE
Posts: 1,061
7/28/11 4:04 P

I just like my junk food in moderation, and if I stay within calorie range, I lose weight. I balance it out with healthy foods, too, but I would be too crabby if I couldn't have my chips and margaritas.



BREWMASTERBILL
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7/28/11 3:49 P

So TURTLESDOVE, why are you looking to do something different? Is SP's guidelines not working for you?



TURTLESDOVE
Posts: 1,061
7/28/11 3:47 P

Bill, I agree with you that I have yet to see any real proof of anything. I know it's mostly all about money. I betcha if I was to bottle regular vitamins and tell people they were weight loss pills,I would make money. I'm not gonna do that cause it would be illegal and dishonest, but just saying, people will believe anything when it comes to weight loss possibilities. MC, I know what you mean, I haven't read where people have done the primal blueprint and what was the outcome. People are always fixin to do it or talking about it.



BREWMASTERBILL
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7/28/11 3:39 P

I've read enough of Mark Sisson to know what he's about. I'm certainly not interested in buying the book, but the website sure sounds preachy to me. I don't find counting calories difficult. It takes 5 minutes of my day. Eating less and moving more (i.e the spark way, the free way) worked for me. If the Primal Blueprint works for you, great. The guy sure has a lot to sell ... books, seminars, supplements, oh my! Just because he pushes it less harder than the supposed hundreds of diet sites/books you've read does not make his methods or means superior. Just sayin'.

What I am interested in is the scientific evidence, specifically peer reviewed studies that back the assertion that this is a metabolically superior diet. I've been on a search for this forever and have yet to find it. Your help is appreciated.



MHCORRGI
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7/28/11 3:29 P

Have either of you actually read the entire Primal Blueprint book? I'm almost through it, and I don't get the impression at all the he's saying PB is the only way to lose weight or that he's all that heavy-handed in trying to sell you his products. From my experience anyway, I've been to a hundred other websites and read countless other diet books that push their products waaaaayy harder than he does. Just sayin'.

He pretty much presents PB as his theory, with scientific as well as anecdotal evidence to support it. Again, no more or less than any other health-related book. His approach is very different which is what intrigues me, but in the end it is just another theory about eating well and controlling your weight naturally, without all the calorie counting and obsessive exercising. (Which is admittedly what appeals to me.)

I do wish there were more folks on sparkpeople who have actually tried PB and had long term success with it, though. I'd love to hear stories from real people who have made it work (or not) in their lives.

MC



BREWMASTERBILL
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7/27/11 9:39 A

It's more than money. Ya, some people are in it for that, of course, but others treat their diet like a cult (particularly the low carbers and paleos). They preach it from the pulpit like it's the gospel. Very puzzling. Anyone claiming that something is metabolically superior across the board or claims to have some sort of edge (aside from drugs or surgery) should be avoided. Often times when you ask them to produce proof or evidence that the diet is superior, they'll refer to a blog post or worse yet, a website where someone is selling something. I've yet to come across an actual study that proves any superior diet.



TURTLESDOVE
Posts: 1,061
7/27/11 9:31 A

ok, yes, I totally agree with you. I am just amazed at these people that claim to be experts that tell you the ONLY way to lose weight is... You get the message. I think I finally got it through my THICK head that it IS and will always be about calories in versus calories out in terms of weight loss. It's all about money, isn't it?



BREWMASTERBILL
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7/27/11 9:07 A

Here is an idea, why not try the simplest approach possible that works for you. There is no metabolically superior diet. Some people do better eating less on low carb, some people don't. For me personally, it was about consuming less calories regardless of the source. You need to find out what works best for you. Simpler the better since you'll want to adopt some semblance of your diet for the long term.

Also, there doesn't need to be this on/off switch. You don't have to NEVER eat pancakes again. Eat pancakes from time to time.



TURTLESDOVE
Posts: 1,061
7/26/11 9:42 A

IDK Golfpro, I don't mean to sound funny, but maybe they didn't live long because they got ate by the dinosaurs, bears, and lions!! I see your point, though. The main reason I don't cut out a certain food group is because after I lose the weight I don't want to cut out certain things for the rest of my life. I can't see not ever eating pancakes again, can you?



GOLFPRO
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7/25/11 8:45 P

A calories definitely isn't "just a calorie". But in the basis of losing weight, it's close enough. The body processes sugar different than rice, yet both are carbs. Most of the very successful people on SparkPeople have been successful because they follow the food pyramid recommendations, which happen to be mostly healthy grains and carbs.

Southbeach proved that people can lose weight eating tons of protein. But from a health standpoint that protein isn't too healthy for the kidneys or heart. I followed the SP pyramid recommendations and was very successful with the program. That fact is, all things are okay in moderation, but the body actually needs carbs to survive. The ironic thing about the primal diet, if you stop and think about it, is just how long did the average "cave man" live?



TURTLESDOVE
Posts: 1,061
7/25/11 3:01 P

anyone do the primal blueprint thing? Have you heard about it? It basically says to limit carbs to about 100 grams a day as well as controlling calories. All of this info is making me sick. I know most of them are in it for the money, but has anyone just lost weight by just controlling calories and not worrying about carbs? The whole primal blueprint thing is on Marks Daily Apple and goes into great lengths as to why a calorie is not just a calorie. Thanks, Amy



 
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