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SANDSURFGIRL SparkPoints: (1,035)
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1/20/13 11:57 P

All forms of medicine evolve over time. Germ theory and the importance of hand washing weren't discovered until the mid-1800's. So does that mean that all modern medicine is a crock because its founders had ideas that we now know are wrong? Medical doctors used to use leeches and believe in humors in the body, so are you going to skewer the entire medical profession?

Visit any celiac support site and the stories on there of misdiagnosis and bad advice from doctors would bring you to your knees with tears. My own story is a horrible one of years of doctors missing the disease, telling me there was nothing wrong with me and letting me slowly deteriorate with no answers. By the time I went to the E.R. where that blessed doctor figured out it was celiac disease, I thought I was dying. My children were 2 and 5 years old at the time. I kissed them and told my husband that if I died in that hospital, please take care of the children and don't fall apart.

I have been gluten free for 3 years and it has taken me this long to recover and be ready to exercise again and get back to a normal life.

So, I take things like this personally when somebody attacks a profession that uses proven, sound medical techniques to naturally help people heal when medical doctors are killing people and destroying lives with poor treatment and misdiagnosis all the time.

Because of celiac disease going untreated for so long, I also have a rare adrenal disease. I suffered tremendously and went through yet another bout of hell with doctors being clueless about what to do. I had to spend thousands of dollars to go to a famous specialist to get answers and find out what medicine to take. Every other endocrinologist I went to shrugged their shoulders and not one but TWO medical doctors told me it was all in my head and sent me home. One of them was an E.R. doctor. He sent me home even though I was collapsing and was peeing out so much fluid I was in danger of my heart stopping. My blood pressure dropped to 66/42 a few hours after that oh so educated medical doctor in the E.R. sent me home and told me off for coming in there several times in a row. I was immediately sent to a different hospital where I collapsed to the floor trying to walk a few steps the wheelchair.

So don't tell me how wonderful medical doctors are and how crappy chiropractors are. A chiropractor told me my health problems had something to do with wheat years ago and when I went to the doctor to get tests they laughed at me. So who knew more?

1/20/13 10:26 P

Since the treat the subluxation concept is no longer taught I am not sure what sort of comment to make. Subluxations exist but the current treatment options are oriented toward reducing fixations which allow the displaced (subluxed) vertebra to self correct.

Old theories still exist even in medicine if you check many still existing treatment plans and recommendations have never been subjected to a clinical trial but still used. I think the question is now beginning to belabour the point, without knowing the specific rational for the recommendation any comments as to it validity are nothing but conjecture.

I choose not to go into the prevalence of medical physician caused injuries and deaths due to bad practice decisions.

This discussion is not moot to me.

CAROL_HOORAH Posts: 1,367
1/20/13 9:46 P

I think (hope) that my chiropractor was just referring to jogging on a treadmill. And for me, I would say that wasn't good - I felt my spine compress as I was jogging, and I needed extra visits to get it back on track. Can't switch chiro's tho - I'm on "scholarship" with him, he's really doing me a favour - continual care with him for a year for a fraction of the normal cost bc of my financial situation!

SARAHANN01 SparkPoints: (0)
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1/20/13 1:50 P

I personally would find a new chiropractor. That just doesn't sound quite right. I have gone to chiropractors regularly since I was 15 (now 22) so I do not fall into the category of those who thinks chiropractors are "quacks." I have used a few chiropractors and not all were great. The one that has stuck is a big advocate for health and fitness. He also holds degrees in Athletic Training, Biology, and Nutrition. Maybe finding someone like that who can help aid in your weight loss efforts and give good alternative exercises (other than just walk) if your body really can't handle jogging would be better than the person you are currently going to.

UNIDENT Posts: 33,498
1/20/13 1:25 P

Of course you studied hard. Didn't I say chiropractic has a valid medical use, when done in a certain way? The original basis of it is bunkum, and many chiros still practice that way, while others stick to what it actually can do.

Sgt - any comment on the article posted stating that there's no validity to the "subluxations" theory?

BARBANNA SparkPoints: (108,384)
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1/20/13 12:40 P

Ask a real doctor. I am a registered and licensed therapist and I have never heard of bad cardio. If you are breathing than you can do some cardio at a low level even if you are on oxygen. Yoyr chiro-quackter is trying to earn more business from you.

FIELDWORKING SparkPoints: (29,946)
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1/20/13 12:35 P

I think the idea that chiropractors are a "quack" is because people don't think of it as being a "real doctor." It's like being a veterinarian. People ask them why they didn't become a real doctor. What's funny is that it's more competitive to get into vet school than it is for med school. I do apologize for the side track.

FIELDWORKING SparkPoints: (29,946)
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1/20/13 12:31 P

Maybe talk with your regular doctor about doing cardio and mention what the chiropractor told you. It doesn't hurt to get a second opinion. Your doctor may be able to clarify

SANDSURFGIRL SparkPoints: (1,035)
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1/20/13 12:49 A

I'm so glad you got on this thread Sergeant major!

When I was trying to decide what to do with my life, I looked into being a chiropractor. I interned for awhile with 3 different doctors. I chose to be a teacher instead, but I know from my experience that chiropractic school is rigorous! It was really close to the amount of time to become an M.D. It's about 9 years of schooling to be a chiropractor and 11 years to be an M.D.

I didn't have an undergrad degree in a science and I was going to have to take a lot of prerequisite classes before I could even start chiropractic school. My degrees worked better for teaching so I went that route instead.

Stating opinions as fact based on total ignorance is just wrong. If you don't like something, then say you don't like it, but don't say that it has no merit because you don't like it and try to discredit something that is valid.

MALA77 SparkPoints: (8,357)
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1/19/13 11:40 P

I don't think I have ever EVER heard a doctor say that cardio is bad!!!! WOW!!! I mean I can see if it is impacting your joints too much and causing pain, but cardio, like someone else responded is good for your heart and lungs!!! But if's joint pain or something like that, elliptical machins and recumbant bikes are good because you won't have to step down each time. Your feet just stay placed on the foot surface. But, cardio bad??? Nah!!!!


1/19/13 11:17 P

Chiropractors are licensed as health care profession in all 50 states in the United States. is a part of the National Health Care in Canada and is taught and practiced in many European countries. I believe there is also a college in Australia.

In the United States the requirements for licensure are a minimum of two years undergraduate work at the college or university level plus four years of professional school including an internship in all 50 states. Prelicense requires the same or a similar examination in the basic sciences taken by medical doctors and osteopaths and a rigorous knowledge and clinical examination meeting standards established by the government approved licensing boards in all states. Postgraduate work is available in several specialty areas including sports medicine, all of which require post education examination.

Riddle me please any form of "quackery" which has similar standards and government established and approved licenses. People in all professions err however their errors can in no way call into question an entire profession.

Yes I have a bias I am a retired licensed chiropractic physician and certified chiropractic sports physician. I also have an undergraduate degree in physical education.

Edited by: SERGEANTMAJOR at: 1/19/2013 (23:37)
1/19/13 7:06 P

Just got back from swimming one hour crawl.. I do feel good... will sleep good... can feel the I could have treaded water for an hour instead but i like the extra edge I feel from working a little harder... According to my fitness section treading water burns about 20 percent less calories so if I stayed 15 minutes longer it would probably burn the same... but I also feel better at endurance tasks . I read last night that vigourous exercise kills estrogen so this cardio also keeps my cancer under control a bit too...

35BYMAY SparkPoints: (1,477)
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1/19/13 3:22 P

Cortisol is not the enemy... who started this misinformation anyway?

GZELLEFRO SparkPoints: (87,871)
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1/18/13 10:32 P

You can do cardio without impacting your spine, or your other joints. Swimming is a prime example. If your chiropractor told you not to do cardio, ask him about swimming. I think he (she)'s thinking that it's causing stress to your joints. I'd clarify with him. Good luck.

SANDSURFGIRL SparkPoints: (1,035)
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1/18/13 9:44 P

You're totally right. Don't want to hijack the thread. The info is out there. If chiro isn't your thing, then it's not your thing. For me, I couldn't imagine not having it in my health arsenal.

I really do recommend the Younger Next Year book. He has some amazing info on how exercise heals your body and how being sedentary actually triggers your body to break down muscle, etc. It was really eye opening for me and so inspiring. He has a PBS special, which is how I learned about the book.

I haven't heard about cortisol spikes from exercise, but cortisol is NOT a bad thing unless you have Cushings and your body produces too much of it when you don't need it, or you have Addison's and you don't produce enough of it. Cortisol is a necessary hormone. Without cortisol you die. People with Addison's will die quickly if they don't take their cortisol and if they have an Addison's crisis, they must have an injection on the spot or they die. They carry injection kits with them.

I have been cured of Cushings. I still have insufficiency of another adrenal hormone called aldosterone. Because I have such a rare disease, I went to the foremost expert on Cushings and adrenal disease, the doctor who teaches other doctors about it and is the leading researcher, and paid a ton of money out of desperation. When I was hospitalized for my adrenal and endocrine disease, the doctor at the hospital had trained under him. He told me to keep exercising and do cardio. So if he says to do cardio to get strong from my endocrine diseases, I believe him.

That's the reason I got on this thread. I have suffered from endocrine disorders and have run the gamut with it. I have never heard anyone say not to do cardio because of cortisol and believe me, I saw a lot of docs trying to get diagnosis and treatment. I am on an Addison's support board even though I don't have Addison's because their disease is the closest to what I have. A large number of the people on that board are runners and triathletes to keep their health at optimum and beat their disease.

Overtraining is not the same as regular cardio and I doubt most people overtrain to point of health damage.

UNIDENT Posts: 33,498
1/18/13 9:28 P

I think there is no future benefit in continuing the 'is chiro quakery or not?' argument. I've provided some links, you've provided your opinion, and now any interested parties can do their own research and make up their own minds. I don't think this is the topic the OP intended to generate.

SANDSURFGIRL SparkPoints: (1,035)
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1/18/13 8:12 P

How can you say that chiropractic isnt accepted in serious medicine? Its included in care by insurance companies and medical offices often have them on staff. Its effectiveness for pain has been proven by science. To say it is placebo and not legitimate is just plain wrong and ignorant. Stop reading propaganda and look at the science. No it does not cure cancer but pain and healing from injury it will help and cure. You have a belief against it based on prejudice not facts.

LARKUN7701 Posts: 25
1/18/13 7:32 P

The difference between gastroenterology and chiropractic is that one is a medical discipline(gastroenterology) which is certified, studied and an accepted specialty by serious medical practitioners.

Chiropractic on the other hand was founded by a man that treated it more as a religion than a science, who practiced magnetic therapy and other quackery. Chiropractic is about as effective as a placebo because that is what it is.

That being said the point about taking control of your health is a good one. My wife is also celiac and dairy intolerant and her GP wasn't able to diagnose it, she had to see some specialists before it got figured out.

SANDSURFGIRL SparkPoints: (1,035)
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1/18/13 7:16 P

There are bad chiropractors out there who dispense bad advice. I would put this one who says no cardio in that category. But there are awful MD's out there too.

I have celiac disease and 7 years before I was diagnosed I was referred to the top gastroenterologists in my area for celiac testing by another doctor. Both of those gastro docs talked me out of testing and said absolutely no way did I have celiac disease. Well 7 years later an ER doctor diagnosed me with a simple blood test and because of the "quackery" of those medical doctors I suffered for 7 long years more than I should have.

So should I say that gastroenterology is a useless profession? NO. Those doctors were misinformed and made horrible mistakes that cost me dearly with my health but they are not their profession.

I would agree that chiropractors who claim to cure things like cancer and other disease are way out of line, but chiropractic is valuable. I would also say that chiropractors who are in it to make a buck and keep their patients coming 3 times per week for months on end are ruining their profession. I've had 3 great chiropractors over the years and all 3 of them did effective treatment where one or two appointments got me fixed up quickly. I see my chiro when I tweak something, get adjusted and don't see her again for weeks or months. If I get a migraine occasionally, I get adjusted immediately and it's gone within an hour or so.

Quack Watch is some of the biggest medical quackery out there and it's a travesty that anyone would believe that man. He is out to destroy any treatment that doesn't involve drugs or surgery and that is not only ignorant but irresponsible. There are those natural treatments that haven't stood up to the tests of science, but many of them have. I think that quack from Quack Watch is probably paid well by the pharmaceutical industry.

Read Unstuck, a book written by a psychiatrist who blows the lid on how little has been studied about anti depressants and how poorly those drugs did in trials. Yet they are prescribed like candy, despite life threatening side effects. So not all drugs are safe, nor are they effective. Read the abstract from the National Institutes of Mental Health on the studies done using magnesium supplements versus anti anxiety medicine and how the magnesium performed just as well or better in studies with no side effects. I cured debilitating anxiety with magnesium because I refused to take those addicting drugs that would make me sicker.

Cardio is good for you. Common sense will tell you that. There is no time in history except this modern era where people even had the choice to avoid cardio in their daily lives. In most countries people still do cardio every day because they walk everywhere and carry things, ride bikes, etc. That chiropractor is an idiot and he is doing his patients a disservice. But it's not because he is a chiropractor. It's because he's a dumb head. There are plenty of dumb head MD's that will give you bad advice too.

CHARMIAN2 Posts: 997
1/18/13 5:18 P

Chiropractors are NOT medical doctors

1/18/13 4:44 P

The vast majority of medical doctors advise cardo exercise and moreover there are lots of studies that suggest that intense, but brief cardio provides much more benefits that slow exercise.

Riding a stationary exercise bike for me is much less stress on my body joints than I find from jogging and it is a fairly intense workout for me... as my sweat-stained shirts can attest. As always, your personal doctor should know best but might suggest you check with an internist or a GP rather than a chiropractor about your personal risk and benefits from cardio.

LARKUN7701 Posts: 25
1/18/13 4:30 P

Unless your chiropractor happens to also being a licensed cardiologist his recommendation against cardio is garbage. If you are healthy enough to do cardio, the amount of real science that demonstrates the long term health benefits of exercise far out weigh the supposed science behind chiropractic.

Furthermore, back pain(the most common reason to see a chiropractor) is often the result of a weak core. Improving the fitness of your core muscles will probably relieve you of the need to go to the chiropractor in the first place.

I'd ask your primary care physician about what you can and can't handle as far as cardio and exercise go. Your chiropractor is not a reliable source for this information.

ARMARTIN527 SparkPoints: (15,818)
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1/18/13 4:10 P

Coincidentally, I just read an article about this topic (from 2011). Granted, isn't a medical journal, but they address the issue. I don't think it's really a big problem...

And the management plan seems simple enough..."One easy way to manage cortisol is to get sufficient rest between exercise sessions, and also enough sleep. A higher protein intake, especially branched-chain amino acids, also helps with recovery."

I think the benefits of cardio out weigh the negative effects of cortisol. And unless there's a personal reason for you to not do it (like if you have a heart problem), that just sounds like bad "medicine."

UNIDENT Posts: 33,498
1/18/13 4:09 P

Chiropractic has *some* benefit, especially in treating actual back problems. However, the central tenet that 'subluxations' of the spine cause diseases is complete nonsense.

Some chiros these days avoid the historic basis of chiropractic and focus on genuine science-based approaches. That is why I did say to the OP if her treatment for her actual back issue is working then great! :)

But many still work on the basis of these 'subluxations' and espouse silly concepts. I had one that used a little machine to gently tap on me - that was not anything that could possibly have manipulated bones or muscles, but that was supposed to help in some way. There is no real basis for that sort of approach.

An article written by 3 chiropractors and a PhD in physical education and published on December 2, 2009 in the journal Chiropractic and Osteopathy may have sounded the death knell for chiropractic.
Early chiropractors believed that 100% of disease was caused by subluxation. Today most chiropractors still claim that subluxations cause interference with the nervous system, leading to suboptimal health and causing disease.
What’s the evidence? In the 114 years since chiropractic began, the existence of chiropractic subluxations has never been objectively demonstrated. They have never been shown to cause interference with the nervous system. They have never been shown to cause disease. Critics of chiropractic have been pointing this out for decades, but now chiropractors themselves have come to the same conclusion.

SANDSURFGIRL SparkPoints: (1,035)
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1/18/13 3:38 P

Oh my goodness in this day and age I can't believe anyone would be so ignorant as to say that chiropractic has no science to support it. Quackwatch is well... a quacky website in and of itself. Chiropractic has been proven in research to help with back pain, etc. plenty. Just rolling my eyes at that silliness. And shaking my head.

Now, as to his thing about cardio, THAT is what I would say is questionable. Very questionable. Read a book called Younger Next Year. He is an M.D. and the entire book gives you the science behind why cardio is beneficial and all the wonderful healthy promoting chemicals your body produces when you are working it hard.

Only in this day and age are we so sedentary because of technology. Think about how people lived for all of human history. They did cardio all day long. They carried their water, carried their children, carried food to their homes, walked everywhere, ran places even.

I would find myself a new chiropractor. That doesn't make sense medically or historically.

CAROL_HOORAH Posts: 1,367
1/18/13 3:17 P

The website you linked to has no markers of credibility. If you can find the same information under a heading that is government sponsored or in a peer reviewed journal, then I'll listen.

UNIDENT Posts: 33,498
1/18/13 2:56 P

Well, chiropractic itself is a quakery pseudoscience. Should we be so surprised that a chiropractor offered a mistaken recommendation regarding the effect of exercise on the body?

If you are benefitting from the treatment for your back that is great. But in general, the principles and practices of chiropractic are not supported by real science.

Do some research. Eg

CAROL_HOORAH Posts: 1,367
1/18/13 2:29 P

I had actually never heard of cardio getting a bad rap before, that's why what he said took me by surprise.

I trust him that in my case, jogging is probably not a good choice - I trust him because I trust my body, and my body told me that, when I was trying to jog and I could feel my spine compressing - and the extra chiro that I've needed since then. But I was super surprised when he termed cardio bad not just for me personally because of my bad back but for anyone in general!!! I think he is just refering to the high intensity stuff... I can't see how anyone woul dbe against swimming, cycling, etc, I think he just means busting your butt too much all at once, which makes sense to me. I was just curious what everyone else thinks on this issue, and what SP's stand is.

UNIDENT Posts: 33,498
1/18/13 2:27 P

Gosh there's a lot of ... um ... 'interesting viewpoints' out there, isn't there?

This article on Today's Dietitian describes the effect of stress related cortisol (which high intensity exercise can cause) on the body. It ends by recommending, among other things, "regular exercise".

Cardio itself has SO MANY positive and wonderful effects on the body that even if it does increase cortisol briefly during high intensity sessions, and even if that has a small negative effect, this is totally obliterated by the good that cardio does for you.

Just don't overtrain.

TACDGB Posts: 6,136
1/18/13 2:19 P

Unless you have health problems yes it can not be so good. But......I get so tried of cardio getting a bad name. Cardio is so good for the heart and lungs. It helps with my arthritis.

SP_COACH_NANCY SparkPoints: (0)
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1/18/13 2:09 P

Hi Carol,

Cardio has gotten a bad rap lately but as the previous poster mentioned it is essential when it comes to heart health, lowering our cholesterol, raising our good cholesterol, managing stress, helping us sleep better, making our bodies more insulin sensitive--and the list could go on. The best exercise program incorporates cardio, strength training and flexibility--it's all about moderation.

Coach Nancy

SLYSAM SparkPoints: (43,184)
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1/18/13 2:08 P

Does he mean for you personally due to an injury? If he means for everyone, I disagree. There are a lot of options for cardio--so it depends what he means. It sounds like he doesn't like high intensity, high impact cardio? In that case what about cycling at a moderate pace, dancing, low impact aerobics, slower swimming, water aerobics? It makes no sense that every activity other than walking would have negative effects on the body. Sometimes I swim at a local pool and am amazed at agile elderly people who swim laps regularly. I took a swim class that includes a 90 year old lady (we were all invited to her birthday party) and I would have guessed her as 70 or maybe even younger.

"Cardio" of all intensities (including higher intensity) is to strengthen your heart and lungs. A ,ot of other positive benefits are reported. Too much "cardio" can have negative effects, like any other exercise. I am really concerned about all the "experts" that tell people not to do cardio. It seems a little trendy at the moment.

JENMC14 Posts: 2,786
1/18/13 2:02 P

Cardio is good for your heart and lungs. It's good to get your HR rate up. There's plenty of lower impact workouts that won't wear and tear the body as much if you're truly concerned about that.

CAROL_HOORAH Posts: 1,367
1/18/13 1:58 P

My chiropracter does not recommend any cardio other than walking. He said that the cortisol surge through your system when you do 20 minutes on the treadmill is not worth the weight lost or the wear and tear done to someone's body.


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