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TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
8/1/11 8:24 P

ha ha you are so funny. I lose another 15 pounds and I gonna post some more pictures.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
8/1/11 7:00 P

hahahaha, she STILL refuses to elaborate as promised.
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GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
7/30/11 9:42 A

KJ, let me just say... hooray for boobies. Not my normal shout but hey they are dames about, I'm trying to keep it down a bit.

Other than ratios and proportions, I think a lot of "body attractiveness" for both genders is down to leanness. I think for optimal sex appeal a woman is typically in the range of 18-20% body fat, men in the 14-16% range. This provides a fit but not freakish look. Of course it's not that quite that simple since it depends also on the amount of muscle mass, but I also think that preferences on muscle mass are more individual. However women seem to dislike even reasonable amounts of muscle mass on women (including themselves). My suspicion is that for the most part men are good with almost any level of muscle women can put on without 'roids as long as they aren't too lean.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
7/29/11 5:08 P

( . Y . )

!?!?!?!!!!!

Edited by: KJFITNESSDUDE at: 7/29/2011 (17:08)
TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/29/11 1:52 P

Grace, I was going to disagree with you but then I googled the two and found out that Charlize is a size 8 and Jessiba is a 6, so I guess you are right. The other ones you mentioned must be a size 0 or 2 at best. Thanks for the info. I know that when I look my best I am a 8 or 10, so now I don't feel so bad. Thanks again. Amy

GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
7/29/11 1:37 P

Jessica Alba and Charlize Theron are the least of the thin celebrities. Nothing like calista flockhart at her thinnest, or even Angelina in Salt. That last completely wrecked the illusion for me, because I know there is no possible way that a truly fit super-spy with anything like the sort of capabilities demonstrated would have arms that thin. Even her running style in that film didn't look like the movements of an athletic person.

Also, are pinup models typically as thin as the celebs you refer to? I'd posit they are not, though it of course depends on the era. Sure, none of them are "big" but the women that men most lust after (and this is once you get beyond characters they have played or other aspects as portrayed in the media) just aren't stick thin either. Physical attraction is much more about ratios and proportions. And once people are beyond 35 or so the emphasis on physical attraction typically begins to fall away somewhat anyway.

And of course this is all ignoring individual variations in drives... KJ and his breast fetish down there being one of the poster boys of course. emoticon emoticon

Edited by: GRACEFULIFE at: 7/29/2011 (13:39)
KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
7/22/11 12:20 P

....and yet, STILL no mention of her large boobs...
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TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/22/11 11:19 A

YES!YES!YES! Thank-you very very much.

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/22/11 11:07 A

Amy, that's precisely what I said earlier. They're not doing it for men, they're doing it for other women. We're in agreement. So go out and impress other women and when you're done with that, get naked for your man and he will be impressed every single time.

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TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/22/11 11:04 A

LOL! But you're right. Now I get it. Majority of women don't want to please the MAN, they want to please the WOMAN! Am I right or am I wrong? Answer me and then I will shut up! Thanks, Amy

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/22/11 10:54 A

Ding! Correct answer. So if you'd like to continue this thread, I think the guys would find it much more enjoyable if you told us more about your naturally large boobs. LOL!

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/22/11 10:50 A

yeah you're right. My husband likes nascar and disovery channel. He doesn't look at TMZ and crap like that. As far as I go, he likes for me to have sexy curves, not be rail thin. I am just 15 or 20 pounds more than he likes. I have a little too much added fat. When I am a size 8 or 10, I look great. I am a size 12 right now. If I was a size 0 or 2 or even 6, I would look unhealthy and gross. I have naturally large boobs and wide hips. I just wouldn't look right being anything less than a size 8. When I see these magazines and they say, "so and so is a size 0, i'm like, man, she must be a skeleton". I'm not going to read this fake world garbage anymore.

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/22/11 10:15 A

You're missing the fact that it's mostly other women tuned in to find out what the "hot celebs" are doing. I can tell you who watches Entertainment Tonight at my house ... hint, it ain't me. It's timely, the guys were just having this discussion this morning about a girl at the office who is skin and bones. We agreed universally that we much prefer a healthy, toned woman over "the stiff breeze will blow her over". Just because they're on TV doesn't mean it's universally accepted. For the record, let it be noted that men MUCH prefer the women you see in playboy. emoticon

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/22/11 10:05 A

thank you. I kinda already knew that most men like meat on their womens bones but how come celebrities try to get so skinny? I don't really get it. IF most men like a little extra padding, the hot celebs should have extra padding, right? What am I missing?

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
7/21/11 5:12 P

You can't generalize to sway your point. So, tell us about the guy that told you that you're too skinny and should eat more. Tell us how many guys that you know for a FACT that lust over women like jessica Alba and the likes. I'll match you guy for guy and more that men also like women like JLo, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Brittney Spears (when she was heavier), Queen Latifah, Whitney Thompson,....etc

BBW means Big Beautiful Women and there are WAY more male fans of these kinds of women than "skinny as a rail" type women. Yup, really. I'm one of the millions who are fans of BBWs. Hourglass shape preferably.

That said, the men that the average woman likes: lets face it Brad Pitt IS HOT, are the kind of men that LIKE rail skinny women.....not women a little overweight and why should they? They work hard to get RIPPED so why should they settle for a woman who isn't as dedicated. Men or women who want to date a hot body, had better be hot body themselves. ALWAYS!? Nope, I'm I'll plenty of "EXCEPTIONS" as replies here but in general, I'm right.

All that said, I think you're hot looking BUT not as a BBW, as nice average weight looking woman.
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TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/21/11 3:40 P

very well put. Thanks. Oh, I just count my calories off of the food itself.

Edited by: TURTLESDOVE at: 7/21/2011 (15:59)
SANDFLEA28 SparkPoints: (3,238)
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Posts: 29
7/21/11 3:19 P

So, Turtledove, how do you 2 figure your calorie and cardio workout rates? Just curious, cause I haven't found a scale for that on any Sparky site.
BTW, I personally don't like to see anyone 'skinny', I think everyone should have enough meat on the bones to look healthy, in spite of lab-rat techs ideas. I am suppose to wgh in at 195, and feel like death warmed over, much better at 225-235, and am healthier too. So look, feel, and be happy for YOURSELF, not anyone else. Those that like/love you take you as you are, those that don't don't count anyway, :)

Edited by: SANDFLEA28 at: 7/21/2011 (15:25)
SANDFLEA28 SparkPoints: (3,238)
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7/21/11 3:14 P

Gee, sounds like what I told a galpal of mine, I was teaching her to drive truck and told her to lose 100# cause I didn't want to replace a spring on her side, LOL, and no, I wasn't being cruel, she had sat around and gained about 150+ #'s and at 5'4 she was killing herself, I have known her since she was about 6 and we are very close friends. She has lost about 50# so far, but has one major problem, as she puts it "I'm height challenged", LOL, looks like a gal Elroy looking at me over that flatbed trailer. emoticon . We are pushing each other to lose and I have got done 4 pant sizes, and she 3, so it's working.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/21/11 2:02 P

man, you must know my husband. You are exactly right. He wants to make love to me, fat or skinny. He prefers skinny, (by that I mean no love handles or bulge,you know) but he desires me either way because he loves me and I have what he needs. Don't get me wrong, I want to look good to please him the most but for everyone else, too. So I'm glad you understand. Although, he did tell me that if I got too big he would tie me to the bumper of his truck and make me run the fat off. LOL

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/21/11 1:08 P

Ya, I think it furthers my point. You're really not doing it for your husband. You're doing it for other people because it makes you feel good. There is nothing wrong with that at all. My real point here is that it probably doesn't matter much to your husband either way. Drop your clothes at the door and jump into bed with him and see if he goes "ewwww!!". LOL!

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/21/11 12:29 P

to be truthfully honest with you. I want to look good so that I will feel good about myself. I guess kind of like an ego boost. In school, I was an ugly duckling and people made fun of me. It didn't feel good at all. When I got in high school, I started wearing makeup and fixing my hair and keeping my weight in track and I got all this attention from the guys. It made me feel good. So you see, I am now a people pleaser. When I go to the store, men hold the door open for me. They want to pump my gas. They used to never do that kind of stuff before, so yes, of course I want to lose the 20 pounds that I gained because now I don't get quite as many looks from people. It's not that I want to sleep with them or anything like that, but it makes me feel good to be noticed. Do you understand?

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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7/21/11 12:00 P

Men are generally happy if you put a naked woman in front of them. I'm of the school of thought that women generally try to look better for other women. This is why primary motivators are typically weddings and high school reunions. Too cynical?

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/21/11 10:37 A

I see you've been down this road before, haven't you? No, you are assuming I asked him, "do I look fat?". I'm not that stupid. Whenever I go on a diet, my husband knows by my eating habits. He always tells me that I should eat, I look fine, I'm sexy, blah, blah, blah. That is what confuses me. He tries to make me eat and then says things about the sexy celebrities. That my friend, is what I'm talking about.

MOBYCARP SparkPoints: (173,607)
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7/20/11 7:22 P

Your husband told you that you didn't look like you were gaining weight . . . LOL.

Don't ask your husband. It puts him in a no-win situation. If you're gaining weight and he says so, he's insulting you. If he says you aren't, he's lying to you or he doesn't care enough to notice. A man hates hearing the woman in his life ask, "Do I look fat?" There is no right answer.

You should have a group of girl friends to talk about stuff like that. Your husband can't discuss it honestly.

TLCOVERT1 SparkPoints: (22,079)
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Posts: 1,169
7/20/11 6:14 P

If the original statement were true, (men only like skinny women), then Kim Kardashian wouldn't be very popular. She's a long way from being skinny. I knew one guy several years ago that was married to an obese woman, and had two girlfriends that were also obese. That's what he liked. Some guys like huge boobs, others feel anything bigger than a C is too much. When it comes down to it, legs are really important too. As the old saying goes, "She's got the kind of legs I like. Feet on one end and +++++ on the other."

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TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/20/11 4:37 P

thanks alot for all the info. Actually, I lost weight eating like this before about a year ago and then I started back eating way too many calories so I gained 20 back. My husband told me I looked great and didn't look like I was gaining anything and then a coworker of mine comes to visit and says it looks like I gained 20 pounds. I knew then that I had to get back on track. You know, I really didn't think I had gained that much because my clothes still fit just tighter and the scale always fluctuates according to what I eat. I hate scales. So I will see this time around. Thanks, Amy
BTW, did you see my other post about getting my feelings hurt? No one has replied to it yet. The title of the post is "getting feelings hurt"

MOBYCARP SparkPoints: (173,607)
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7/20/11 4:07 P

Meh. I don't worry a lot about foods being super-healthy. I've seen several articles about various nationalities that are trim and what they eat, with wide variations in dietary components. What the nations of thin people have in common is, they work harder physically compared to the nations of fat people. Duh!

Personal opinion: There are many different nutrients that can become problematic for some people and might need to be watched closely. Some of them get a lot of press written with the implication, or even explicit claim, that *EVERYONE* needs to watch such and such. I don't buy it.

My sister needs to watch her sodium level. She has medical results and advice from her physician to support this, and the consequences of her not restricting sodium line up well with the popular press on the evils of salt/sodium in the diet. OTOH, salt doesn't bother me. The most common symptom claimed from too much sodium, high blood pressure, isn't one of my problems. I think some people are sensitive to sodium and others aren't; if you aren't, your time is better spent watching stuff that makes a difference to you.

As to your burrito and chips, it might be okay. If you've been doing this a while; and you haven't noticed any problems with energy level, weight, or blood pressure; and your periodic physical checkups return blood work in normal ranges, then I wouldn't worry about it. But I'm a guy. Gals worry more about stuff like that. The guy reaction would be, if I can do the physical activities I want to do, and have good energy level, and my weight is doing what it's supposed to do, I don't have a problem no matter what guru says I'm eating too many carbs or too much fat. If my energy level isn't where I'd like it to be, I'll look for something to do about that. What I find might include eating differently.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/20/11 3:10 P

good point. Thanks Moby, however, isn't peanut butter on whole wheat and chicken noodle soup and beans good for you? They are considered healthy foods, but the breading on the burrito and the chips I know are not good for you. But it's a combo of healthy and not so healthy, so maybe it is ok, you think?

MOBYCARP SparkPoints: (173,607)
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7/20/11 2:37 P

deleting inadvertent duplicate post

Edited by: MOBYCARP at: 7/20/2011 (14:38)
MOBYCARP SparkPoints: (173,607)
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7/20/11 2:30 P

Weight gain or loss has two general components. The small one is temporary factors like hydration, water retention, and where your food is in the digestive process. That can make your weight fluctuate by some amount, with the precise amount varying between individuals but tending to be a higher number for larger individuals.

The longer term dominant component of weight gain or loss is energy consumption vs. expenditure. If you eat more calories than you expend, you gain weight. If you eat less than you expend, you lose weight. There are two practical problems with seeing this. First, the temporary factors obscure the picture in the short term. Second, there is no easy, accurate way to measure either calories in or calories out. The Spark method of recording food is about as accurate as measuring calories in can get, and even that is subject to user error, estimation, and (in the case of prepared foods) manufacturers or restaurants changing the size or recipe after you recorded the nutritional information. Calories out is tougher. A Bodybugg type system is as good as I've seen that would be accessible to individuals, and even that relies on some estimates that might not be accurate for everyone.

There was a guy fairly recently who went on a Twinkie diet. He restricted his calorie intake to a weight loss range, got most of his calories from Twinkies, and sure enough lost weight. The point wasn't to claim that the Twinkie diet is healthy, as even the guy doing it says it's a lousy diet for health. The point was to demonstrate that thermodynamics is trumps a lot of the fluff that gets published about weight loss. The problem, of course, is staying within the calorie range while eating junk. In the real world, people don't restrict consumption of Twinkies to the weight loss calorie range.

Part of the reason for standard recommendations to eat a balanced diet is that it's easier to be satisfied on fewer calories with a balanced diet, and part of it is that there's more to health than simple calories in versus calories out. Much (not all) of the stuff written about with regards to weight loss describes real phenomena that do work in the direction claimed. However, a lot of ink is given to second- and third-order phenomena that don't give you much bang for your buck. The first-order phenomenon is calories in versus calories out. Flunk on that one, and it won't matter how well you eat veggies and restrict fat intake. Eat fewer calories than you expend, and you will lose weight; but if you have to restrict yourself to 1200 calories to do this, the second-order phenomena of getting the right nutrients for health within those 1200 calories becomes important. OTOH, if I can lose weight on a 2000 calorie per day diet, I don't have to be as strict about eating well because I have more room for junk while still getting enough of the essentials.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/20/11 12:23 P

agree. I hate to change the subject, but in the general forums there are so many posts that alot of them get lost. I tried asking this question. Do you think I (or anyone) can lose weight eating whatever you want as long as you stay within calorie range. For example, my typical day is this. Breakfast is coffee. Lunch is a frozen bean burrito with a 160 calorie bag of chips. Snack is 100 calorie popcorn. Dinner is pb&j sandwich with chicken noodle soup. It satisfies me to eat this way. I don't have appetite for breakfast. The beans in the burrito fill me up until dinner. The broth in the soup satisfies me for some reason and the peanut butter also helps to fill me up. I don't know. What do you guys think? I also got the Zumba wii game and been shaking my bootie off, (well, not quite yet) for 40 mins per day. Also, I change up my dinner sometimes because I do get bored but I still stay at 1200 calories. Amy

N0_EQL Posts: 625
7/20/11 12:04 P

For the same reason the "Chippendale Men" have a specific body type.

Women just would not pay to see men like me. LOL




TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/20/11 9:36 A

Yes, I would like to know that also. I don't get why women like dudes like Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt. I guess I'm just one of those ladies that don't see what other women see. So I guess it goes both ways, when I was making my argument, I could have included men also. I see your point. Never thought of it that way.

WILKERSONR Posts: 5,148
7/19/11 9:03 P

I have always be parcel to Kathy Ireland, I always have and always will. I told my wife before we got married if Kathy called up up I was gone. She accepted that.

MRAGGRO SparkPoints: (2,364)
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7/19/11 4:57 P

It's partly that the celebity women you talk about are put up on a pedestal and idolized. I was talking about this the other day with a friend and it's actually one of the primary principles of creating attraction. If other people find her attractive, then the idea can and will spread like wildfire. Part of our pack mentality from the days when we were still swinging in the trees (or part of God's Plan, if you're from that school of thought). A lot of our baser instincts and primitive psychology stayed with us in the present era, but instead of a pack alpha we are given societal alphas via mass media such as TV and the internet. It doesn't matter what some of them look like, we would lust after them regardless.

For the record, I don't believe in such a thing as "too skinny." Skinny is my body type of choice, gimme them rib bones! emoticon

Now, why do all you women lust after the chiseled, hairless fellas like Brad Pitt or anyone on True Blood, then tell us guys that looks don't matter and we just need to "be ourselves?"

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/19/11 4:25 P

that was a very nice reply. Thank you. Amy

GDARMENIO SparkPoints: (1,625)
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Posts: 15
7/19/11 3:37 P

Because Men are conditioned to salivate when shown pictures of the women you mentioned, however, the connection, love and intimacy of a real real relationship triumphs the fantasy of the aforementioned women.

TURTLESDOVE Posts: 1,061
7/19/11 2:10 P

ok, I'm not saying all guys are this way, wait, all the ones I've ever known are, anyway, why do men always lust after women like Jessica Alba, Charlize Theron, you get the picture, that are skinny as a rail, and then tell women like me that's a little overweight that you think they are too skinny and need to eat!! Hello, please explain this to me. I'm sorry for venting. Amy

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