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WWREFUGEE1942 SparkPoints: (77,353)
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8/19/13 1:44 P

In Biblican times these kids would have been stone to death by the elders.

MEBAZI SparkPoints: (22,543)
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7/6/13 7:50 A

Simple. Call the police when there is a problem. Call the police, call the police, call the police. Simple. CPS isn't necessary.

CRIMELLA SparkPoints: (41,369)
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7/6/13 4:26 A

Anarie: Exactly what do you propose I say to CPS? They are outside during the day in the summer on the street they live on like half the other kids on the block. They eat,they bathe, they have clean clothes, they get regular haircuts. Even if I did call because of them being unsupervised, they are likely to lie and be more spiteful than now. Also, they look between 10 and 15. If oneof them is 12 they can legally babysit the other.

It is not parenting differences. Parenting is not the same as lying to cover your kids butt for something an adult would possibly get a felony for. I didn't dislike the kids until they began with the 'acting up' shall we say. Also, how have I treated them wrong or unfairly? I have asked over and over for the last year. I then told them over and over. On all of their inappropriate behaviors, towards kids, dogs, and property. Then I handed their mother my list with the consequences. Neighbors have also spoken to both them and their mother, in one instance even an aunt. Prior to the rock incidents I let them see the dog too and told them it was fine to come in when I was there and they were told it was okay just like everyone else. If they hadn't been trying to hurt him or bringing their aggressive dogs over to the fence to "see him" or trying to break my windows or hurting other kids then they would be permitted. They knew that. Were they adults I would have called the cops the first time. As you say they are people. People can choose not to behave and they can choose to behave.Knowing the rules makes it a choice nothing else. Kids have consequences to. My children can tell you what is right and wrong and how consequences work. My kids are younger than these ones.

The adults lie and claim the kids never did anything even with witnesses and when that doesn't work they have even tried to claim it was because of the racial difference. One of the kids in the family (a cousin) openly says he hates the one that hits the other kids. The cousin is allowed to see the dog when I'm there because he does not act like the others. I do realize the lies, attitude and probably behavior stems from the mother.

I'm looking into cheap webcams that are wireless since the computer is across the house from where I'd need it.

Sorry if I'm snappy it's been a long day and I'm tired.

Bed now. Goodnight.

EXOTEC Posts: 3,327
7/6/13 2:12 A

I agree with the suggestion of an electric fence.


And set the charge high.
There are electronic fenceless systems for dogs.

At least dogs are trainable, unlike these kids, evidently

EOWYN2424 Posts: 9,108
7/6/13 12:45 A

I've had my head hit by a football kicked hard by the neighborhood boys more times than I can count!

GOALWTIN7 SparkPoints: (2,121)
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7/6/13 12:12 A

I hate to see dogs tied up. It's even again the law here. Give the dog away if he is constantly tied up having rocks thrown at him.

ANARIE Posts: 13,185
7/5/13 10:31 P

Hmm. Big complications here.

First and foremost: Are these neighbor kids running around unsupervised? If they're going into strangers' yards uninvited, it's dangerous to THEM. If the parents let them tease and come into close contact with other people's dogs, that's dangerous to THEM.

Ask yourself this: If these children were nice kids but were left on their own in the same way, would you be worried about them? If they were absolutely adorable, would you be thinking that someone should do something to make sure they're safe? If you can say yes to that, forget the cops and call Child Protective Services to report potential child neglect.

If you can say no to that, then you're really just talking about parenting differences and the fact that you don't like these kids. That's okay; kids are people, and you don't have to like every person. But you might think about whether your dislike is contributing to the problem. You say that you let other kids play with the dog. It's pretty normal kid behavior to act out when other kids get privileges that you don't have. If an adult says, "No, Jimmy!!! You aren't allowed to play with that truck! Johnny gets to play with it because he's nice and you're not," what's Jimmy going to do? He's going to kick that truck down the stairs.

Assuming these kids are older than about 6, you can probably salvage them. Next time you see them, don't run them off. Talk to them like adults. Say, "Look, I know we've gotten off to a bad start. I made some mistakes in the way I treated you, and I'm sorry. Let's talk about what kind of behavior we expect from each other." Give them guidelines for what they would have to do in order to be welcome around your home the way other kids are.

The worst that can happen is that they'll give you that nasty kid laugh and go on like they are, in which case you haven't lost anything. But usually, "I didn't treat you fairly and I'm sorry" are absolutely magical words to anyone under 18.

The parents are a lost cause, so work with the kids directly. Kids who are unruly generally either don't know the rules or haven't been treated according to the rules themselves. If there's no reward for following the rules, they're not going to do it.

(The $5 webcam is still a good idea, though!)

DRAGONCHILDE SparkPoints: (61,313)
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7/5/13 6:42 P

A webcam is very inexpensive, and you could easily set it up in a window or something.

HEre's one for $5!

You can spend somewhere around $20-40 for a decent wireless webcam.

ELLES26 Posts: 447
7/5/13 5:06 P

I agree with GlitterFairy. Video evidence and try once again to show the parents what you are talking about. If that doesn't work, then take the next necessary step. I certainly applaud you to try to do something.

CRIMELLA SparkPoints: (41,369)
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7/5/13 5:01 P

One of the boys a neighbor across the street and I have both seen threaten and hit other kids. We were told that it was another boy from down the street even after we saw him go into their four-plex's main door. She and I both have 3 kids and between the 6 of them they know not to go in the other yard even to see other kids (instead invite the other kid over after getting permission) and all of them know if the boy is out there to go inside and if they are even touched by him to tell us. It saddens me that we've had to explain all this and that boy's behavior to our kids (aged 4 - 11) and have to make them go inside whenever he's out. It feels like we're punishing them for his poor behavior even though we're protecting them. It's all we can do on that front though.

Even though we've bought this place within the last couple years, when I get done with college we plan to move out of state. We originally planned to let my mother and sister in law take over payments but with the way this family is I'm considering just outright selling it. I know my husband wants to be able to come back here and come back to a home, and he loves this state but running the risk of their damage while we're living in another state just doesn't seem like it's a fantastic idea as much as we may love our little house...

It'd be nice if parents parented but some just refuse to be responsible or discipline.

GRACED777 Posts: 4,348
7/5/13 4:42 P

We have a 13 year-old girl who is mentally/emotionally always going to be about nine years old and who is autistic living in our one story apartment complex. She has been running around the complex with no supervision for years,and her single mother doesn't take responsibility for her increasingly destructive behavior. She kicks over planters holding flowers, breaks solar walk lights, and just the other day told me she punched the refrigerator door because she was mad at someone. She says, "I like hitting things."She needs attention, but is very disruptive. None of us know what to do when we don't see her doing the malicious behavior very often, and her mother says we are making up stories about her. So I can sympathize...

CRIMELLA SparkPoints: (41,369)
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7/5/13 4:20 P

Thanks. I've never heard of Zmodo... I'll look into them now.
And would the vibration be too strong for toddler aged kids? The girls down the street come see him every day and lean over the fence to reach him or throw sticks and toys for him to fetch.

And yeah he loves outside. He get anxious being inside and even with his dog house he hates to use it (so I put his food in there to try and get him more okay with it that only works sometimes). When he was indoors at my mother in laws before I got him, he would tear up the floor and doors. Out in our yard, he gets to see people and play all day and either go under the shade or in the doghouse or if he wants sunbath or play in the rain lol. That dog LOVES the rain.

FEDGIRL4 Posts: 2,180
7/5/13 3:17 P

CRIMELLA, it is a misknomer about the electronic fence. You don't get shocked unless you touch the prongs within the shock distance of the fence. You set the distance. And it is a very strong vibration. I know. We have the fence. We also have a dog door.

We could not afford the either the physical wood or electronic fence either, but both helped keep our dogs inside and kids out of our yard.

I wish I could help with the unruly kids except to make the parents responsible, especially if they hurt your dog, hurt your kids, or damage your property. If the police refused because they figured the parents would lie, it sounds like they have dealt with those folks before or folks just like them. Cameras are not that expensive. They seem like it though. My hubby has one by the company Zmodo for his business.

GLITTERFAIRY77 Posts: 8,023
7/5/13 2:46 P

Ah. I see. Some dogs just do better as outdoor dogs. My female boxer HATES the rain because her former owner would keep her outside in all weather and forget about her-which is why she's ours now. We've had her for 6 years this August.
ANYhoo...How incredibly frustrating!!! Every time you can, though, have the camera on so you can catch them in the act. Pictures/video doesn't lie, unless you have really advanced equipment and a CGI program in your computer....I'm guessing you don't, cuz I totally don't either.

CRIMELLA SparkPoints: (41,369)
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Posts: 345
7/5/13 2:33 P

Wow more replies in the short time than I thought I'd get.
Let me try to respond to everyone...

Cameras - we can't afford them right now since we are helping friends and family (one was homeless with a 5 yr old, the other's house burned down) or we would. It is being planned.

Get neighborhood watch - we supposedly have one but only 3 of the people on the block actually help out (us included).

Get neighbors involved - one of them routinely chases them away from him when they act up and we had a long talk last night and now he will be alerting us and calling the officers rather than just us (he and his family live in the same 4 plex as them)

let him off his tether - we do when we are out there but the fence out back does not close off and we haven't had the ability to fix it yet (and the fence we do have these kids climb over anyway)... He isn't getting tangled in it, he is tangling the chain itself. He is good about being out of it, just running in circles to avoid the kids was getting it bunched up. He has quit having it happen to the extent it was. I routinely untangle it when we go to the park simply so he can have the full length. I did not originally get the dog, I took it in. He is not a full time indoor dog for a multitude of reasons...
He has plenty of social interaction. We go on walks, the kids (mine) play with him, other neighbor kids are welcome to and routinely do pet him or play fetch with him (I do allow kids in the yard with permission and supervision and I do allow the kids that don't try to abuse him to pet him and such on their way past or when they are outside.)

The thing I think that bugs me most is that anyone who catches them both the kids and parents lie even with witnesses. I am hoping that someone other than my family calling the cops will get results but aside from the issues they seem to have with my dog (but with none of their own 4 dogs) is things like my windows (one is already broken).

Thanks for commenting and trying to come up with ideas. :)

And while I'd love to electro the fence, the other kids and the dog'd get zapped too lol I had already considered it.

BLUENOSE63 SparkPoints: (108,021)
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7/5/13 1:53 P

Yes I agree regarding the tethering of the member had a dog strangle itself that way...freak accident but happens. If you cannot afford cameras, I would suggest staying up a night or two, catch them in the act and call the police right then......until then leave the dog in the house and take it out for one long walk instead.

CAMEOSUN SparkPoints: (86,617)
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7/5/13 1:47 P

Electric Fence. emoticon

Seriously, though. The camera sounds like a great idea. Keep it hidden & you will have proof. Years ago, different town, we had bad neighbors & the police took care of it. Then we moved. Is it possible you could move? For piece of mind/health/safety. Because with people like that - - confrontation usually leads to more trouble from them.

OBIESMOM2 SparkPoints: (245,679)
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7/5/13 12:57 P

you may not even have to go for a full fence. A dog run or just a decent sized fenced area can be enough for a small or medium size dog.

I will say that the fence and dog door are definitely the best $ we've spent on our house. Our 3 have plenty of room to run and play outside, and if we are running late getting home, we don't have to worry about them needing to get out.

GLITTERFAIRY77 Posts: 8,023
7/5/13 12:53 P

Oh, I didn't even see the part where the dog is tethered. A family member had a dog suffocate that way. You may want to consider investing in a fence so he can roam freely without fear of him escaping.

MISSRUTH Posts: 4,267
7/5/13 12:41 P

It seems like security cameras would be the best bet. Hard to argue with video evidence. The alternative would be to hide in the bushes with a camera and try to catch them in the act.

I'd also have to agree that tethering a dog is not a really good idea.

OBIESMOM2 SparkPoints: (245,679)
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7/5/13 12:19 P

is it possible to organize a Neighborhood Watch in your area? Usually the cops will help. Maybe with the participation of everyone, you can catch the little hellions in the act.

we have several brats in our neighborhood who seem to take great delight in teasing our dogs. I'm sure their parents will be more than happy to sue us when one of the 'little angels' manages to get bitten (our dogs are in a fenced yard, NEVER loose).

LOVE4KITTIES Posts: 4,690
7/5/13 12:12 P

Set up surveillance cameras. Call the police when you see the kids do stuff they aren't supposed to do. Involve your other neighbors in this--ask them to call the police too, when there are problems.

I would very much encourage you to stop tethering your dog outside. Tethering is widely considered to be inhumane and is known to be unsafe for your dog (both reasons being why it is actually illegal in many places). Dogs are social animals and tethered dogs become bored, lonely and anxious. Sometimes, this can even lead to aggression. They get tangled up (which you state is happening to your dog) in their tethers and this can lead to injury or even death. Why have a dog if it is going to be kept tethered outside? Why not bring it in and make it part of the family or, if you don't want to do that, why not rehome it so it can be part of someone else's family?

GLITTERFAIRY77 Posts: 8,023
7/5/13 12:07 P

See about getting cameras with monitors on them, THEN bring them up on charges. If you don't have proof, you have no case.

CRIMELLA SparkPoints: (41,369)
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7/5/13 11:59 A

How do you handle them?
I went from having to untangle my dog 3+ times a day to giving the mother a letter saying that I (or other members of my family or household) had caught them throwing rocks at my dog, throwing balls at my windows, feeding my dog (he can only have certain foods or he gets sick so they were told not to), coming in my yard without permission, threatening other kids, etc. The letter said if they were caught again I would call the police. I have since then only had to untangle the dog 1-2 times a week. I have been told that they are still periodically throwing rocks, and have tried to break into my house, and I have caught one using a stick to destroy part of my tree (that the dog is tethered to), etc... Last night someone threw firecrackers at the dog. I went out (because the kids came and told me someone did it) and the mother said (paraphrasing) 'someone threw a firecracker at your dog. and you blame my kids for hurting him'. When I pointed out that there was noone else around she said "Well next time I won't help. I'll just let them kill your dog." ...Now see, she didn't detain anyone, couldn't describe them or anything. All she wanted to do was argue and claim her family was just being targeted. Other families won't let their kids near those kids either for the same reasons. Other neighbors have caught them throwing rocks at their windows. One was told they didn't do it and when he said he saw them was told it was an accident.
Last night's incident the police didn't come out because they didn't believe the neighbors would be any more helpful to them and thought that it was probably them and they were lying but no 3rd party saw it to verify.
I'm at my wits end here...

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