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RYOKOSITH Posts: 160
2/3/13 1:05 P

A lot of good advice so far in this thread, though I must second Becky. At the very least, as Childe has suggested, you've worked yourself into a habitual pattern which is almost reflexive at this point. When it gets to the point it's virtually an unconscious reflex, all the more you have to work at forcing yourself to counteract them until you extinguish the undesired/unhealthy behavior.

While I can understand loving your friends and wanting to be involved in their activities, the way it's been presented sounds like you're buckling to peer pressure. I suppose there are a couple questions you have to answer for yourself here:

1: What is my priority here, socialization or personal health?
2: Can I be friends and enjoy their company without drinking so much (if you know drinking might be one of your triggers), and if not is it because of my own expectations or would they really not want to hang out with me any more if I didn't binge? If they are truly your friends, they shouldn't care how much you drink but that you are there with them. (At least that sounds logical...but logic and college behavior don't always equate I suppose. :p )

You're luckier than many people...you've realized there might be a pattern that is getting out of control and as such are in a place that if you choose can try to reverse it. But to do that might involve changing some behaviors you might be reluctant to change. You do have a lot of support here if you decide to allow it, even if you end up just lurking here at SparkPeople, so don't leave the site. :)

Edited by: RYOKOSITH at: 2/3/2013 (13:08)
CHILDSCA1 Posts: 28
2/3/13 12:46 P

Here's my thought...the foods you are describing (junk food) more than likely have MSG in them. MSG has been known to cause addiction. Over 80% of processed foods contain this addictive chemical. The food companies want us to become addicted so we keep buying their food and making them money. Try to stay away from anything processed. Stay away from anything that could trigger a craving such as diet sodas. The more whole foods we eat, the less we want the processed junk food. Lastly, ask yourself why you are binging. It goes deeper than not being satisfied with food. There's an emotional link there. Good luck to you! You can overcome this. emoticon

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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2/3/13 12:41 P

@Becky- Thank you. Your thoughts and input are always appreciated. After this 4 day drunken fest next week, I'll try my more freedom approach. If that doesn't work maybe I do in fact need to talk to someone.

I think the problem comes from how anal retentive I've been about counting and tracking calories. It really helped me with planning what to eat, and being an engineer something about the math and numbers was comforting. Now with being back with friends, its like its not letting me relax and that stress may be causing me to snap. That was why I kind of thought about just quitting. Trying to decide right now if I should track during Carnival, since I'll go over everyday for sure, almost on drinks alone.

Again, thank you everyone. I won't be having pizza or beer tonight with the game. I need to get my body back on track. The "I'm not feeling well" excuse will be used, and surprisingly that's the one I get the least amount of flak about.

DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 26,594
2/3/13 12:07 P

I know I am entering this thread late...but wanted to give 1 piece of info.
I sense that there are many issues "possilby" going on...the food binging, wanting to lose weight, wanting to get more buff, the alcohol consumption, etc....

Have you ever checked at your college campus for nutrition counseling or health counseling services??? many colleges now offer such services. I think a good counselor can help really assess your situation and determine the appropriate direction to take.

SP Registered Dietitian Becky

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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2/2/13 11:08 P

"It could be as simple as habit. You've kinda trained that urge in, and now you've got to train it out."

Good point. I used to binge like this even as a little kid. I remember once stealing a whole box of granola bars from the pantry and eating them all in my room at like midnight. But this would happen maybe once every other month and normally at places where good food was abundant. (I would eat more than anyone by far at a church potluck when I went off) But this wanting to binge on subpar food much more frequently may be a lasting impact from my body wanting a little more food this last year. Just have to beat the urges one at a time and hope they come with less frequency and intensity as time goes on. Thanks

DRAGONCHILDE SparkPoints: (56,917)
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2/2/13 11:03 P

"I understood why I would want to binge when I was "dieting" for a deficit or surrounded by Christmas treats, but not why that urge has stayed with me now."

It could be as simple as habit. You've kinda trained that urge in, and now you've got to train it out. ;)

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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2/2/13 10:59 P

@Everyone- Thanks for the replies. I really feel like I'm just whining here, but talking about it is helping I think. I posted a blog about what I plan on doing after this big party of ours at school. Basically planning on eating 1500 cals a day and then giving myself more freedom for snacks, rather than planning on nice, big healthy meals to reach 2000 each day. Bill especially, I'd like your input on a regular cycle of eating like 1700 (so below maintenece) for 2-3 days then not feeling bad about going 800 over the next day. My weight would stay the same, but I'm worried about it maybe leading to burning muscle on low days and then putting on fat on the high days to a bad recomp essentially.

Basically going with a calorie range of 1400-2600 rather than 1800-2200.

@Dragon- I'm back at college now and not doing any serious jiu jitsu since I'm taking classes now. I still get a chance to lift during the week but its a vastly different lifestyle for me now than 2 months ago.

And I get 60-70g of fat a day. Mostly animal sources (including eggs) with dairy, nuts, and olive oil coming in behind that. I drink 2-3 glasses of milk a day so I do choose skim. In my mind that makes up for my love of cheese on eggs in the morning and with my sandwiches I have to pack for lunch on campus. I'd think my binges are more carb based (But maybe it just carbs holding the fat or something) Something else to think about so thanks

@meg- Your first paragraph sums up my eating since back at college perfectly. And unfortunately, all the drinking is social and college-esque, so not really just a 1-2 beers on a friday night. Its bar 1, bar 2, house party, club, find a ride back to our place to possibly even start an after party. I wouldn't mind drinking less, but I love my friends and I do enjoy these nights with them. I'm the only one who gets home and raids the pantry tho. (But last time I wasn't even drunk, and I ate even more than the time before)

Gonna drink like a fish next weekend and avoid the food binges next week. Then try a new approach with more freedom and hope that helps. Thank you all. I understood why I would want to binge when I was "dieting" for a deficit or surrounded by Christmas treats, but not why that urge has stayed with me now.

MEG-NATALIA07 Posts: 679
2/2/13 6:05 P

It seems like you've got some interesting patterns here. I took a look at your food log, very helpful, by the way. It looks like you stay pretty well on track, if not less than that for several days, then indulge. And then there's a bunch of alcohol that really impacts your caloric numbers.

I'm curious of you would stay more consistent if you had a real beer every evening, and worked that into your daily numbers...? Rather than good,good, good days..... then indulgent reward that sets you back 3-4 days. Sounds like you need better patterns, but not deprivation. Am I on the right track?

GRAMCRACKER46 SparkPoints: (28,301)
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2/2/13 5:48 P

Kylar (and others) all I can say is it's a lot harder when you are older. Think twice about doing damage now because it's hard to correct later.

DRAGONCHILDE SparkPoints: (56,917)
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2/2/13 5:15 P

You know what I think is causing this, Kylar?

From your posting history here, we know that you're a competitive athlete, and you are often on restrictive eating plans to cut weight quickly for weigh-ins. You eat well, but there's always skim milk, reduced fat everything. When you binge, it's all high fat stuff.

I'm betting you're not getting enough healthy fat to support your exercise, and your body is reaching the point where these binges are about catching up. I think you've gotten yourself in an unhealthy cycle of restriction and bingeing.

On days you eat heavily there's always alcohol involved... a lot of it. Alcohol lowers your inhibitions, and reduces your ability to say no.

This isn't a healthy cycle, and you need to really dig down and start figuring out WHY you're doing this.

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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2/2/13 5:10 P

@Bill, thanks for your replies. I'm really not sure what I was hoping others to say, sometimes I just ramble and bounce ideas off myself, other times I do the same thing but with you virtual people. I don't know that any sort of response would help, but sometimes this pointless rambling helps me get my thoughts in order, if that makes any sense. And I have identified a few key points that I think I can change to possibly fix this. So whether you realize it or not, I think you have helped me. I just gotta get through next week which will be chaotic and then I'll be ok. Or at least ready to try something new to stop my binge nights I've had since I was a kid.

@Nausikaa- I know what you're saying about bad on the organs. And no, it isn't a wild number. I tallyed up everything in the morning and this isn't even the first time I've broken 5,000 in a night. Over Christmas I went to town on some of my mom's almond bark monster cookies and I could feel my heart hitting so hard, it was shaking me in the bed that night. That was a moment where I thought I was literally killing myself with this crap. Thoughts of giving myself diabetes (since its almost always simple carbs or sugar) came to mind. Looked at the nutrition facts in the morning and the almond bark had lots of trans fats. And I ate about 15 of them. That explains the heart pain.

@CallMeCarrie- No, not possible to get sugary foods out of the house... They weren't even mine. Ate the roommates stuff. (But yes, I have binged on non-sugary things before. I ate an entire 12 pack of 100% whole wheat tortillas once. And plain granola with raisins never survives near me) We've got a lenient house where unless there's a problem, mostly everything is fair game. I'll buy a box of cereal and a tub of ice cream on my next grocery run and they'll know any of them can go for those.

And as for my profile pic, I don't look near that anymore. That was me a few months ago when I was in fact the same weight, but had just recently drove myself down to make featherweight. I was still coming off my 6 month of dedicated eating at a deficit. Now its weird. Same weight (152ish), little stronger now, but barely have the abs even outlined first thing in the morning. After breakfast or even just some water they're completely gone. That doesn't bother me at all, but it really puzzles me how I looked like that 4 months ago.

Again, my thanks to all of you for listening to someone who feels like a little kid again ramble on with his problems

LEKSIPATSY Posts: 380
2/2/13 4:56 P

I think you've gotten great advice but I would like to reiterate that you should really not eat less before drinking - that makes you a cheaper date haha but its not good for your body. It's not practical to say that you shouldn't drink since you are in college and all but if you feed your body well beforehand you are less apt to binge during the fact. Maybe give yourself some leeway once a week to go over your range w/alcohol, keeping in range with eating. That way you can have some fun, but your body gets enough nutrients for the demanding lifting you are doing.

I tried the light beer gig when I was dieting but that stuff tastes completely gross. Now I just try to stick to 2-3 drinks and make them something less caloric but not grossly so (wine, vodka w/diet tonic, etc.).

I think its good that you are thinking about how to approach this binge eating now, instead of later. Enjoy college but don't wait until your late 20s to figure it out - it gets harder to keep weight off as you get older, unfortunately.

CALLMECARRIE Posts: 1,598
2/2/13 4:23 P

Looking at what you eat when you binge..... is it possible to get all cake, Frosted Flakes, and Drumstick ice cream cones out of the house? You can do a lot of damage in a short time with those kinds of calorie-dense foods. It's a little harder to binge on, say, All-Bran. Not that you have to eat All-Bran, but why tempt yourself with sugary foods?

I agree with the idea that maybe you're not eating enough on a daily basis. You don't seem to be gaining a lot of weight overall. On your six-thousand calorie days, if, say, 2500 calories are normal for you, you're gaining about a pound. A week of penitence and you're back to normal. Maybe eating more on a regular basis would keep you from the pattern of binging and remorse.

Definition is great and all that, but since you have to have such a low body-fat percentage to get great definition, you're almost guaranteed to be hungry a lot. Is it worth it?

And for what it's worth, from a woman's point of view, sometimes guys who don't have quite as much definition are actually more appealing. To me, super-muscular, defined guys kind of broadcast "Self-absorbed here! I spend a lot of time thinking about how I look!" Other women may not agree, but that's just my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

I wish you well, it has to be very frustrating. You're still doing very well on your overall weight-loss. Don't leave Spark, I enjoy your contributions too.

Edited by: CALLMECARRIE at: 2/2/2013 (16:25)
NAUSIKAA Posts: 4,848
2/2/13 4:04 P

Kylar, there is a problem here. Yes, okay, weight is okay, lifts are going up, so it sounds like a wacky bulk cycle BUT (I gather you're young?) eating such a massive amount in one sitting / short period of time is NOT good for your body. A big meal is one thing, but 5000 calories is seriously scary. (Do you mean actually 5000 calories? Or were you throwing out a wild number? Because I seriously doubt that there are 5000 calories in a box of cereal, at least, I really hope not!!)

Any bodybuilder will tell you that to keep increasing your lifts and muscle mass, you will lose definition and gain bodyfat at the same time and you do that with increased calories -- but it's much safer to do this by simply increasing your daily calories by about 300 calories. So if you had 2300-2400 calories/day instead of 2000, you would probably have the same result (less definition, continuing to progress w/ lifting, increased mass) BUT at least you would not be potentially harming yourself with these huge binges.

You're really stressing out your organs if you're taking in 5000 calories at once. I do cheat days 1-2x/month where I eat about 2500 calories so I do understand the idea of a periodic significant caloric increase but it should be done within reason.

(That said, some people really do need to eat 5000 calories/day but they do it every day and not once in a while and their bodies are used to it. When my brother was a competitive athlete his coach had him eating about that much and he was fine, but he was conditioned for it I guess.)

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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2/2/13 3:55 P

I guess I don't understand your response at all. You want to fix a problem that doesn't fully exist just yet. You see a pattern that disturbs you, fair enough. The likely behavior you need to change is pretty clearly identifiable and you're unwilling to change it, so you want us to say ?????

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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2/2/13 3:50 P

"Weight stays the same, lifts go up is what I'm gathering. I fail to see a real problem here."

Good point... I guess I'm maybe ok. But I'm not seeing how that's going to stay being the case if this keeps up. I'm hoping to cut it off before it turns into some serious fat regains. And eating more and drinking less would be a good solution. But the problem is I like my friends and my friends like to drink. I already turn down about half the serious opportunities for drinking and never instigate them. But when I do go out, I do enjoy drinking a little too much. Sorry.

Its just on me then to not being a complete idiot with the binge eating. Need to force myself to stop this crap, and not stress out as much about slight overeating maybe? Currently getting my thoughts in order and a new eating plan is starting to come to mind. Maybe giving me less stress about my eating so then I don't freak out on weekends and let my guard down with a couple drinks in me.

GRAMCRACKER46 SparkPoints: (28,301)
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2/2/13 1:30 P

I would hate to see you give up SP partly for selfish reasons. I always learn from your input and insight.

Sorry you are having this struggle. Hopefully this is a learning curve period for you. May you find your answer. Good luck to you.
emoticon

Edited by: GRAMCRACKER46 at: 2/2/2013 (13:31)
BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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2/2/13 1:28 P

Ya, I don't really care about the weight the next day, I'm talking about trends overall. Weight stays the same, lifts go up is what I'm gathering. I fail to see a real problem here.

Your body is looking for equilibrium. It wants to stay at a particular weight. The binges are facilitating that. You might try eating more and drinking less. Personally, I've limited my drinking to no more than 1 day a week and this year my goal is to do it about once a month.

So honestly, eat more, drink less is my recommendation. See where that takes you. I'm no psychologist, doctor or trainer, so if it's anything beyond simple, I simply cannot help.

Edited by: BREWMASTERBILL at: 2/2/2013 (13:28)
KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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2/2/13 1:15 P

Scale wise, My weight shoots up 5 pounds next two days, then I can get it to drop back to where I want it after about a week, but even when my weight's back to where I want it, definition never quite comes back to where it was (maybe that would take a little longer but then the cycle of binge and moderate cut begins again) Possibly the weirdest thing about this whole thing is that my lifts in the gym are continuing to go up slow and steady.

And yeah, my last super binge was a night when I was good and drunk, but this last one I only had like 3 or 4 beers throughout a whole evening. But these super binges of mine go way back. 3 times over Christmas break, 2-3 since then. And even back years ago I'd had this binge until I'm overfull, then eat more problem. Its never the day after when I'm feeling a little rough, but many times in the past it has also been completely unrelated to drinking. The fact that they come on my drinking nights is actually new.

I'm starting to get the temptation to just give up spark and do whatever I want. Be glad I lost my obese weight and put on 5-10 pounds of fluff without worrying about it. But that's just giving up

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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2/2/13 12:54 P

I dunno, what's going on with the scale. Is it moving up quickly or mostly holding steady? Also, the drinking is pretty huge IMO. For me personally, it's not so much the bad food choices during the drinking, it's the severe plunge in sleep quality that makes me ravenous the next day. You put me on a cut, then go on a bender and I can guarantee a 4-5K+ day the next day. You notice the binges possibly coinciding w/ the benders?

RYOKOSITH Posts: 160
2/2/13 12:53 P

Have you ever had anything like the binges before and now they're just far more noticeable, or are these a relatively new thing since you've been dieting?

If it has been happening for a while, I'd wonder if there might be an emotional trigger as well. Not saying that is the case here since as the previous poster noted we have far too little info/knowledge to go on, but then again often we don't realize what all has gotten us to the state we are in now without closer examination. On the off chance it might be deeper than simple "calories in/calories out", perhaps keep a journal for couple of weeks to see if you can look back and notice if there are any patterns before a big binge.

Outside of that, you might try making an adjustment to up your calories during regular days and see if that helps or if that doesn't work perhaps see a doctor or specialist.

EDIT:
Well, I'm a slow poster. :p
I couldn't speak to how the alcohol consumption might be throwing you off since I've never been a drinker myself. If treated like how I try to treat soda now, I'd say probably best to limit it and avoid alcohol binges (much like avoiding soda binges) and be more moderate with the consumption. For me sucking down a bunch of soda, even if I "budget" for it, can make me crave sucking down a bunch of junk food and more soda.

That's probably as (un)helpful as I can be. Hopefully other posters will have something more useful to add on. :)

Edited by: RYOKOSITH at: 2/2/2013 (13:00)
KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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2/2/13 12:50 P

Also, nights I know I'm gonna have a few beers I tend to eat fewer carbs earlier in the day so I can still end up around 2200 and feel good about the day. Bad idea? I'm just trying to find a way to balance staying in shape wtih college and I'm struggling. Mainly account of drinking heavy twice a week with friends but I'm my own worst enemy if I keep binging like this.

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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2/2/13 12:47 P

Thanks for the input, not sure if its mental or not (if it is, its gonna be all on me to fight it) and yeah, I'm aiming for about 2,000 cals on normal days with 150g protein.

I thought that was an ok range since I'm only about 150 lbs and trying to keep the definition I have now for the first time in my life.

BMR= 1550 cals. times 1.2 for walking around and such is 1850. I lift 4 days a week and that's about all I get for real exercise now that I'm back at college so I figure that's another 150 cals a day. If that's under a little that might be ok because with the college lifestyle I can't avoid every opportunity for pizza, beer, and taco bell on weekends so I'd be ok with going over once in a while. Just not this crap of over a day's worth of food as a freaking late night snack... That was my reasoning for 2,000. Am I about right or could that be contributing to the problem?

BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (31,080)
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2/2/13 12:40 P

I think I'm missing a lot of information to help, so I'm speaking in general terms. "Normal" days look like you're eating 1900-2100 calories. That seems like too little assuming a reasonable amount of activity. I find that when I eat too low for a week or two, eating far above maintenance is almost a guarantee. I don't consider it wrong, this is how the body works when deprived. If you want to limit crazy binges, eat more during your normal days would be my recommendation. If you think this is some psychological issue rather than physiological, seek the advice of your doctor.

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,233)
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2/2/13 11:47 A

I just don't know what to do. It seems like every 7-10 days I just go off and eat everything in site. I'm not talking about over eating, or eating half a bag of potato chips. I mean like 5,000+ calories in a night... I hate myself for it, but it's like nothing at the moment would make me happier than a gallon sized bowl of cereal or something like that

Its always small carbs, the kind of things you always have room for. Cereal, toast, cookies... Never anything substantial because I know there isn't room in my stomach for that. Any thoughts on why I freaking do this? I've tried everything to stop this from cutting out all sugar, to allowing anything in moderation. My trackers are public if anyone wants to look at the horribleness. (Excuse my little naming system for my recipes which makes it easier for me to search)

Its not like I'm undereating or anything. And because my binges are always carbs/sugar I no longer have near the definition I have in my pic... would like to get that back without dropping to 1500 cals a day because I'm trying to build a little muscle back on by lifting 4 days a week.

I'm sorry, but now I'm honestly worried these binges where I eat two day's worth of calories are going to stay with me for the rest of my life. That's all of a sudden an actual health concern to me now, not just my weight. And does anyone else do this? I'm not talking just binge eating, but eating about the equivalent of an entire box of frosted flakes and enjoying every second of it?

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