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NOBLEEQUESTRIAN SparkPoints: (5,640)
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3/2/14 12:25 P

The reason you don't feel fulls is because you have spend several years eating too much. Your stomach is a type of muscle and has expanded to handle the amount of food you consume.

Therefore it doesn't feel full when it eats healthy portions. It will take time for your stomach to shrink to your new diet.

ICEDEMETER Posts: 1,332
3/2/14 12:21 P

For me personally, I don't think I can "go back" to the old way of eating - because I never *thought* about what I was eating. Paying attention is my strongest tool, so that's something that has to stay. The nice thing, in my mind, is that paying attention means that I actually enjoy the food more, so it's actually been a happy change in that regard.

So, no, I won't ever go back to having just a piece of buttered toast, because I know that there is not enough fat and protein to combat the sugar crash that will happen as the toast digests. I will, however, have that piece of bread and make it in to a half sandwich, with 60g or 90g of meat - and the bread will be dark pumpernickel or rye (which digests more slowly, and, to me, tastes much better). Or I'll chop some onions and tomatoes, mix them with a bit of olive oil and some spices, spread it on the bread and melt 30g of cheese on top. Whichever I choose, it will be a good balance of carb / fat / protein and it will be something that I can absolutely enjoy eating.

Take your time every time you eat and figure out what you want and how to make it as satisfying as possible. If you're like me, it won't take long until you don't ever *want* to "go back" to the old way!

MOONSTRUCK1981 SparkPoints: (620)
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3/1/14 7:04 P

carb binging - been there, done that.

So far I've tried to eliminate the white breads and pasta (my big sins), substituting with whole grain which helps somewhat. But can you ever go back without going nuts? I mean.. I know that if I go to the kitchen right now and grab a piece of buttered toast I will go ballistic and not stop eating till I've had 4-6 slices of bread. But do you get to a point where you can actually just have that one slice and not set yourself up for disaster?

SEAGLASS1215 Posts: 577
3/1/14 7:43 A

This is a great thread, lots of helpful ideas and advice here. I, too, feel hungry when I try to 'eat good stuff' but give me a bagel, and I'm satisfied for hours...unfortunately that sets me up for a carb binge later in the day.
Nuts are good way to get healthy fat and can be filling - just need to watch the portions.
Adjusting the night time eating (cutting down on this so you feel hungry in the morning) is a great idea too - I'll be trying this one myself.

SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (243,503)
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2/28/14 6:42 P

That is fantastic that you have been exploring different types of therapy. Unfortunately for some, it DOES take a bit of trial and error to find what works best. I guess it boils down to we are all individuals and as such, respond in different ways.

Kris xx

MOONSTRUCK1981 SparkPoints: (620)
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2/28/14 7:41 A

I've been on quite a few different meds during the past 10 years and especially anti-depressants and anti-psychotics can have an adverse effect on your weight because they mess with the neurotransmitters in your brain that help control appetite among other things.

I have been in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy combined with exposure therapy for both my social phobia and the OCD but unfortunately the stress connected with the exposure causes my depression and other mental issues to get worse and the doctors have decided that the risks involved are too great and terminated that course of treatment.

I am in therapy though, just a different kind. I have a great therapist - very open, very honest. She focuses a lot on the connection between our emotional responses and how our body reacts. For instance feeling anxiety causes your stomach to knot, your heart to beat faster, your breathing to quicken and so on. The theory behind her kind of therapy is that it Works the other say around too. That by changing the physical responses you can affect the emotions as well. It actually seems to work. but it's still new to me :)

MOONSTRUCK1981 SparkPoints: (620)
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2/28/14 7:24 A

Great idea to make base- recipes and just modify them as you go along. We do tend to eat a lot of the same foods with only a few differences.

Cooking in batches might make everyday life a little easier. I imagine it would be a great help on those stressful days where you tend to just stuff whatever is closest in your mouth. Having healthy food made, ready to pop in the microwave could save me from cheeseburgers, pizza and whatever else I tend to eat in those situations. :)

RENATARUNS SparkPoints: (4,367)
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2/27/14 5:44 P

"As far as I've read the PCOS can make it more difficult for me to loose weight."

For sure, but there is the pleasant side effect that losing weight in itself can help alleviate the PCOS (along with reducing sugars I think? I'm not as sure about that. but I think that's what the metformin is about), so you can hold out hope that it will get easier as you go.

Congratulations on your progress thus far. (Edit: I don't have time to look at your tracker now but will do so later.)

Edited by: RENATARUNS at: 2/27/2014 (17:45)
SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (243,503)
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2/27/14 3:53 P

I batch cook, too, and containerize them in individual serve containers, dating and labeling them. I save them into my Groups section so I don't have to keep re-entering everything.

Below is a link that MAY help re meds/weight gain:

I am fortunate in that no p.meds affected my weight, and my late husband, who also had very bad OCD never had any weight-gain side-effect as a result of them, either. I realize that we were lucky in that respect.

Are you having Therapy as well? That can help significantly, too. If not, ask your Dr for a referral to a Therapist. OCD can respond really well to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, but the Therapist needs to be qualified to practice this, and a lot aren't. They can often help with weight-loss stressors, too.

Given your PCOS, I would really be inclined to ask for a referral to a Registered Dietitian.
Below is a link that may be helpful, but I guess you already know what it says - LOL!

Good luck,

MICHELLEXXXX SparkPoints: (12,094)
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2/27/14 1:19 P

Are you tracking your sodium? It can have a big effect on appetite.

ICEDEMETER Posts: 1,332
2/27/14 10:52 A

Good for you for working so hard at this! It's good to see that adding back some fats is helping, and please don't beat yourself up for an occasional "slip" - that's just part of life, so just keep going with all of the good things that you are doing.

I just want to give you an idea that made tracking my own recipes a lot easier for me. I quite often start with a "base" recipe, which ends up slightly different each time because I've maybe used different quantities or added some different vegetables. What I do is enter in the SparkRecipes side a listing for "Base Whatever-it-is" the first time I make it. Every time after that, I use the "recipe modification" button so that all I have to do is make the changes to the quantities or vegetables and then save it as "Today's Date Whatever-it-is". That saves me time in not having to re-enter things that I make fairly often, and also allows me to label things that I've batch cooked and frozen so that tracking them is easy in the future.

For example, I have a "Base Veggie Stir-fry" in my recipe listing. When I make it tonight, I will weigh the vegetables as I add them and then hit the "recipe modification" button on that base and make the changes to the quantities to match what I actually used. I will save it as "14 02 27 Veggie Stir-fry". This way I'm not having to enter the whole thing all over again, but still getting an accurate count.

Hope this is useful to you!

MOONSTRUCK1981 SparkPoints: (620)
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2/27/14 8:07 A

I do struggle with sugarcravings especially in the evening and I did kind of slip up yesterday. But I have been trying to stick to crispbread and sometimes popcorn.

It can be difficult finding the right foods listed. for instance we don't have the same cuts of meat, ground meats don't have the same percentage of fat as in the US, and it's the same with dairies. We also don't have the same brands.
I almost always cook from scratch because I don't see the point in using pre-packaged foods and we rarely eat out, so usually I'm able to calculate pretty much what's in our dinner. But I think I'm going to start just typing in the recipe I use for dinner in the SP recipe calculator and saving them. If it's just one recipe a day it shouldn't be too overwhelming.
I've been having a look around SP for new recipes but I find that a lot of them use specific brand stuff like pre-made tomatosauce or cans of mushroom soup.

I do have other problems than "just" being overweight. I was diagnosed with PCOS about three years ago and take Metformin. As far as I've read the PCOS can make it more difficult for me to loose weight.

I also suffer from social phobia, depression, anxiety, personality disorders and OCD, and some of the medications I'm on affect my sense of hunger and my ability to predict and care about consequence. Since I started taking these medications 10 years ago I've gained 65 lbs. So I am aware that this is going to be a long hard struggle but it is nice to see that with so many great people here there's always a soft place to fall when things get tough.

SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (243,503)
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2/27/14 5:25 A

After looking at your Nutrition Tracker, I suspect that if you increased your fruit/veges a bit, and decreased treat foods, like gummy bears, etc., or processed meats, you might find that you are less hungry.

Make sure that you make the changes gradually, because not doing so can cause problems with hunger etc., too.

The other thing that I note is that you mention entering a 'similar' food for something that isn't listed. Altho' this is better than nothing, there CAN be a huge difference in calories and general nutrition. It is subtle things, like maybe with a curry, the amount of butter/ghee or oil used, or even just a different brand can make a big difference.

Have you had a medical to check things like Hypothyroidism, Diabetes or PCOS aren't partly responsible for your weight? If not, it would pay for you to talk with your Dr and be checked. They are far more common than a lot realize.

I was very amused at your comment that you can't do much about your height ...... :-) That is sooo true - LOL!

Good luck

MOONSTRUCK1981 SparkPoints: (620)
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Posts: 10
2/27/14 5:03 A

Okay, there. Now I think i've managed it :)

EELPIE Posts: 2,700
2/26/14 7:42 A

Not yet!!

Create your sparkpage first. See how next to my name is has "view my sparkpage"?

When you create your page (you don't have to go all jiggy with it) make sure to save it. Then make your trackers public.

MOONSTRUCK1981 SparkPoints: (620)
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Posts: 10
2/26/14 6:03 A

There.. now my Nutrition tracker should be public.

I do eventually plan to enter the recipes I use often in the calculator I found in the recipes section here on sparkpeople. It's just an awful lot of work - partly because I often have a hard time finding the right foods or at least something similar in the system and also converting to US measurements. But I will get there. :)

SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (243,503)
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Posts: 26,590
2/26/14 4:42 A

To make your Nutrition Tracker public, you will first have to create a SparkPage. That is easy enough to set up - they are simple step-by-step instructions. If you go to your "View SparkPoints" page (on the right side of your page), you will see in the group of "One Time Challenges) (the second lot down), about the 5th challenge down is "Create a SparkPage" - click on that in the right column.

It is a good idea to include at least the protein/carbs/fats into your Nutrition Tracker when you enter the foods, because these can play a VERY IMPORTANT part in helping us to tweak our intake so that we not only meet our nutritional needs, but also helps when we are dealing with hunger problems (along with others)

Good Luck,

MOONSTRUCK1981 SparkPoints: (620)
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Posts: 10
2/26/14 4:06 A

I don't know how to make my tracker public. I've been looking but can't seem to find the right buttons to press. :)
but I'm not sure how helpful it would be since I've manually entered a lot of the local foods I eat. Also I don't have all of the nutritional info on the recipes I use for dinner only the calorie count.

I'm starting to get used to eating roughly every two hours but then I haven't really had any plans these past few days so I'm kind of wondering how I will handle it when I get busy.

I don't quite know what to do about my evening cravings. It's really just habit I guess. I'm used to snacking continually throughout the evening. I've been eating popcorn the past couple of nights but I would really like to kick the habit.

The advice on reintroducing some fat in my diet is helping me feel full and more satisfied.

RENATARUNS SparkPoints: (4,367)
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2/25/14 2:40 P

"the thing is I never used to feel hungry. Not like this. I would usually go all day without eating and not even realize it. I would have no food cravings of any kind. Not until I started cooking dinner and then hunger would kick in big time and I would end up eating way too much and then continue binging on chips, candy and ice cream till bedtime.

Now all of a sudden I'm more or less grazing all the time. I need to eat at least every two hours and I'm feeling grumpy, thirsty and have a headache all the time."

There's definitely something about eating a lot late at night that can make it very easy to lack hunger in the morning and then go a surprisingly long time afterward with no hunger cues either. As you've seen, that's not necessarily a weight-friendly way to eat,but it does mean you can get a shock when you make an effort to eat breakfast every day, NOT eat a ton at night, and then find out that your hunger keeps kicking in all the time.

Some of this might be perfectly normal hunger. In general if you eat only 200-300 calories at a time during the day you are going to be wanting more food in about two hours, A fine thing if you're happy to eat that often, maybe a problem if you are not. Some is very likely the result of a sudden large reduction in calories. I most definitely felt this myself, though I was mentally prepared for it and expected it to be worse than it actually was, so when my stomach size and hormones (or whatever) adjusted after about six weeks, I was pleasantly surprised to be feeling so good. And some of it may have to do with what you are eating.

As others have said, if you post your tracker you will probably get feedback that's more specifically helpful to you. You may wind up with suggestions to increase calories somewhat for now and cut down more slowly; you may be able to incorporate more sustaining foods and cut down on things that don't keep you full as well, you may do better on fewer larger meals; it's hard to say. A lot of it comes down to experimenting what works for you personally, becasue everyone is different.

SONICB Posts: 4,375
2/25/14 12:14 P

I would never have picked out that you weren't a native speaker of English!

Like you, I don't get that full feeling from eating only carbs & lean protein. Even if my stomach is not growling, I just don't feel satisfied. Try adding some healthy fats to your meals--avocados, roasted nuts, olive oil, etc.

2/25/14 11:36 A

Making your tracker public will help you get lots of great suggestions.

Edited by: JUSTEATREALFOOD at: 2/25/2014 (11:36)
MICHELLEXXXX SparkPoints: (12,094)
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2/25/14 11:34 A

I suggest making your tracker public.

SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (243,503)
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Posts: 26,590
2/25/14 4:22 A

Did you change a lot of things all at once? That is often a major cause of what you are experiencing. If so, I would be inclined to go back up and GRADUALLY work down, but try to keep your fats/carbs/protein within the ranges that SP recommends.

Avocado, nuts and seeds , as well as sardines, salmon, tuna and herrings are good sources of healthy fats as well as many other healthy attributes.

Good luck,

MOONSTRUCK1981 SparkPoints: (620)
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Posts: 10
2/25/14 2:59 A

the thing is I never used to feel hungry. Not like this. I would usually go all day without eating and not even realize it. I would have no food cravings of any kind. Not until I started cooking dinner and then hunger would kick in big time and I would end up eating way too much and then continue binging on chips, candy and ice cream till bedtime.

Now all of a sudden I'm more or less grazing all the time. I need to eat at least every two hours and I'm feeling grumpy, thirsty and have a headache all the time.

FLORADITA SparkPoints: (63,888)
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2/24/14 1:29 P

I found I really needed to learn what was real hunger and what was just my tummy rumbling due to digestion etc.. Have any of us really experienced true hunger? Once I realized I have rarely if ever missed a meal in 50 years, I decided to test myself to see what it truly feels like to not have food on my stomach all the time. I have learned to like the feeling of having an empty stomach and enjoy eating whole healthy foods to fuel my body rather than eating junk to feed my boredom, stress and habits. It is a whole different experience when we explore why eat what we eat and why we feel we need to constantly eat. If we are eating to fuel our bodies and be the healthiest we can be rather than feed our emotions, food begins to take on a completely different focus. I know for myself, food took on an exaggerated role in my life and as I have added in healthy activities and opened up my world to things other than eating, food has found a more balanced place in my life. It has taken many years to get to a healthy place with food. Mindless and endless eating was such an ingrained habit, it takes time to break the unhealthy relationship to food.

OHCINDY Posts: 137
2/24/14 1:21 P

Hi there, I agree with Exotec on the healthy fats. Since I've changed my diet to 10 - 15% carbs, 25% or so protein and 65% - 75% healthy fats, I am rarely finding myself feeling that constant hunger. If I have a fairly high fat breakfast, I will literally not feel truly hungry for several hours.

MOONSTRUCK1981 SparkPoints: (620)
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Posts: 10
2/24/14 1:10 P

Wow, lots of great advice.

I think there are several Things going on here. I was given a range of 1400-1650 kcal I think but I raised i to 2000. I was probably eating 2500-3500 kcal a day before I started this. Plenty of bread and pasta, loads of candy, fastfood and chips.

Being able to identify feelings of actual hunger af being full are definitely an issue for me and that will just have to take time and practice. Eventually I'll have to face my tendency towards emotional eating as well but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

I try to get a fair amount of fibre, eating spelt flakes for breakfast and 2 slices of a very dense, wholegrain rye bread full of grains and seeds which is a stable part of the diet here in Denmark. However, everything is low fat. I've never used butter on my bread, but I have cut out all the sauces, fat on meats, full fat dairies and so on. Maybe I need to reintroduce some of that. It's most certainly worth a try. Perhaps I could try combining it with the advice about eating strong flavors and make a nice garlicky tzaziki to go with my vegetables.

Drinking more fluids is also a goal of mine. I don't usually drink much. Only when I feel very thirsty and from what I've read that is not nearly enough.

Things are looking up, however. Dinner tonight contained both bulgur and potatoes - all within my calorie range but more caarbs than I have gotten in the past week - and I feel physically sick to my stomach. I'm sooo full.

MEGAPEEJ Posts: 732
2/24/14 11:25 A

Did you drop a large amount of calories from last week to this week? For example, when I first started I was eating about 2500-2800 calories a day, and was originally given the 1200-1550 calorie range - so my body was pretty much getting HALF of what it was used to! After a few days of being hungry all the time, I added a little more time to my goal and a little more exercise and was able to move in to a higher calorie range, and just a few hundred more calories really helped me feel more satisfied.

I also agree with a previous poster that adding fat really helps with that full feeling. I could eat a pound of veggies for lunch and be hungry not too long after - or I could eat a quarter of a pound of veggies with just 2 tbsp of full fat dressing (adding just 100-150 calories) and be satisfied until my planned snack 4 hours later.

ICEDEMETER Posts: 1,332
2/24/14 11:14 A

A couple of things that occur to me are:

- You've only been at this for a week: is it possible that you just dropped your daily calorie range too quickly? If you were previously eating 2700 calories each day and suddenly dropped to 1300, then your body is not used to it and is going to tell you that it's starving! What you might want to do is to do the drop to the weight-loss range gradually - going back up to your previous level and then dropping a couple of hundred calories each week until you are at the weight-loss range. This will give your body time to adjust.

- While all of the things that you listed are great, I don't see any fat on there. Fat is very satiating, so you might want to check what you're eating to make sure that you have enough. Think about using a little extra olive oil, or adding some nuts, or eating some fatty fish.

Now, this is a personal quirk of mine and may not apply to you, but I find that I don't feel satisfied unless I've had a hit of strong flavour. I have found that using a lot of spices or small amounts of flavourful sauces are absolutely necessary for my body to realize that it's "done". You might want to try making a dip out of full fat greek yoghurt with onion, garlic, dill, and mustard in it for when you are munching on the veggies (this will give you both fat and flavour). You may want to consider adding a couple of tablespoons of hot salsa, or a cherry sauce, or a hot garlic aioli, or a spicy cheese sauce on top of either your meat or your vegetables. The hit of flavour might be what your taste-buds are looking for to be satisfied.

I also need a high amount of fibre for my body to register as "full". This means that I eat more of the high-fibre vegetables (broccoli, cauliflower, celery) with each meal, and I also include an evening snack of popcorn (40g of popcorn with 1/2 Tbsp of butter and a dash of salt), which gives me enough volume and fat to be full.

I hope that this gives you some ideas, and wish you all the best as you continue!

EXOTEC Posts: 3,327
2/24/14 11:08 A

I follow a restricted-carb diet on prescription of our endocrinologist. I've done some deep searching into the lifestyle since we were started on this path (mostly because it sounded dangerously "off" to me too, having been raised on the Standard American Diet).

What any (or most) low-carb proponents will stress is that fat will make you feel full, or will stop hunger. Your list of sample foods doesn't include any of that... unless you count the chicken breast, and I'll bet you're using the "boneless-skinless" type. That has no fats, either.

I agree with your assessment - you probably don't recognize when to stop eating. I had a difficult time differentiating between "hunger" and "appetite" for a long time. If I wanted food, I just counted that up to "hunger", which isn't the same at all. I've had to learn that "full" isn't "as much as I can eat", too. Full means eat until you're no longer *actively* hungry... not until you can't put another bite in your mouth, or until your taste for what you're eating subsides. This is, I suppose, why we're told to eat slowly. It gives our bodies time to evaluate the food we've given it, and - more importantly - to *tell* us we've had enough! If we just keep on noshing, those nutritional feedback loops that tell us when to stop don't have time to let us know!

Meanwhile, try not to let the fearmongering about healthy fats dismay you. Try eating some foods containing fat in their normal proportions. Eat skin-on chicken, use real butter and whole dairy, hard cheeses, coconut oil, bacon... fattier cuts of meats. See if those additions help you at all. Maybe you can put some nut butters on your celery sticks? Make some snack cubes of cheese and meats to go along with your veggie snacks, or try some dips. Don't cut down on your veggies! those are good, and the basis of most low-carb diets. But add some things which will help you reduce the hunger.

As one addicted to carbs, I know that if I eat any, I'm totally craving more. I just can't go there. It sets me up for a binge that takes me a couple of days to get over. All I have to do is eat some nut butter or cheese on a few crackers, and I'm done! All I can think about is more carbs for hours or days afterwards. Oh, I torture myself, and do eat some - just because I am such an addict. It's my own fault. I know what's coming. And then I have to have even *greater* resolve to get past it than if I'd just resisted in the first place.
I can understand your sentiments about the potatoes and pasta. My downfall in that short list is the rice. I think I will always (and forever, amen) crave rice. My second-most-dangerous temptation is breads. Bakeries drive me crazy with the aroma. I just have to get away from there as quickly as I can, or I'll buy everything on the shelves.

As for the transition... well, I just had to go cold turkey. If you try to "back into it" slowly, you'll just torture yourself. You just have to S-T-O-P. Once you get past the first couple of weeks, you can start adding things back in slowly until you determine what your body can handle. You can do it, though.

And your English is fine! better than some native-raised English (or American) speakers, I'd say. Besides, we read for content. I think nobody's likely to offer grammar lessons! LOL


EELPIE Posts: 2,700
2/24/14 11:01 A

Well, I did find that it took my stomach (organ, not my tummy) a few weeks to start shrinking so that less food made me feel fuller.

You are are on the right track with the eggs and chicken - protein helps you feel fuller.

Bulk up on fiber rich foods. Fiber also will help you feel full: Here is a partial list of high fiber foods:
. Also think of whole grains.

Snacks - make sure you get them. Instead of eating 3 big meals a day - include up to 2 snacks of under 200 calories each - this way you are eating every few hours (smaller amounts, but more often). Here is a great list of under 200 calories snacks:

Drinking a lot of water throughout the day also helps create a feeling of fullness.

MOONSTRUCK1981 SparkPoints: (620)
Fitness Minutes: (20)
Posts: 10
2/24/14 10:17 A

Hi everyone

I have only been at it for about a week but I find that I have a hard time feeling full. It's not because I don't eat, because I do. I eat more or less constantly. Loads of carrots, cucumber, hard boiled eggs, tomatoes, chicken breast, apples.. you name it. And I still don't feel full.

I used to eat huge amounts of carbs. Lots of bread, White rice, pasta, potatoes and so on. And now I have tried cutting my carbs as low as I can without going nuts and eating an entire Loaf of bread, and instead I'm eating lots of lean proteins and greens. But i feel hungry all the time.

I have a theory that it might be because I don't really know what "full" feels like because I'm used to eating till I have this huge ball of starch like a cannonball in my stomach. So I'm thinking this "healthy full" is going to take some getting used to.

Does anyone have any experience in this area?
Any great ideas on how to deal with the transition?

(English is not my first language so please bear with me)

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