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3/12/13 10:23 P

I have no idea what if any trophies were given out when i played little league. I played because I loved the sport and I quit when it was no longer fun. When the "good" players on our team started screaming at the "bad" players (I was neither, I was a good hitter, but poor defender, so I was middle of the road) and acting like little Bs every time the team didn't win I quit.

I always found the parents who would scream at the coaches and sometimes the players to be a disgrace and unfortunately there seemed to be a lot of those type parents at our games.

To me, the value of competitive sports is learning team work, good sportsmanship and having fun. I think there's a lot of value in encouraging kids to do the best they can, regardless of whether they win or not. The trophy issue just isn't that important to me.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
3/12/13 9:38 A

@Rena: I suppose it's up the parent's to decide if they want their children to participate in an activity that's competetive or non-competetive but if they are going to participate in an activity where trophies are awarded to winners and none to the others then it should be understood from the start.

I think this concept is but a small facet to the changing of our society (for better or worse) and that it all adds up and it's ok, imo, to talk about these issues.

emoticon

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DIDS70 Posts: 5,368
3/12/13 9:13 A

"Same job, same pay"
Wholeheartedly agree.


"but one employee does a crappy job but still gets rewarded the same monthly bonus check"
Bonuses are entirely different than doing the job. Bonuses are NOT mandatory. You have to earn a bonus. It belittles the bonus the bonus process when someone gets the same amount just because they have the same job and didn't put any extra effort.

As far as kids and trophies-- I completely agree that every child should not receive a trophy or some other type of entitlement that they participated. let the kids fall and receive and their lumps. They will become better people for it.


:)
RENATARUNS SparkPoints: (4,337)
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3/12/13 6:44 A

What's the point of the process? Is it for competition, or is it for enjoyment or celebration of an activity? If the point is not competition (and for little kids why should it be? Half of them don't care who's better and who's worse, and the other half get upset if they think the "worse" one is them), then why is it necessary to impose that from the outside with different trophies or medals?

I'm not saying competition is bad, I'm a competition fiend, really, I thrive on it. But I ran a ton of little races for kids when I was young. Some had medals, some had none, some gave the same medals to everyone, others singled out people who had scored highly. I usually got a medal at some level or another when they were offered. And I still can't say that having different medals or the same one or none in any given race made any difference to me that matters 35 years later.

People make too much of this, IMO. What's generally called "helicopter parenting" is bad, really bad for kids, but the two things are not at all the same. Its' just because they're perceived as acting in the same direction (out of an urge to protect kids) or are both equated with some sort of non-trendy liberal mushy-mindedness that they're so often lumped together.

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3/12/13 6:37 A

As a parent, I have learned that I am doing nothing but setting my kid up for failure if I don't let him succeed and fail through his own doing. This builds self esteem....when he picks himself up and works harder to succeed or accomplish a specific goal, then that becomes an attribute....He looks back and says with pride, "Hey I did that".

Disappointment is part of life and it is the "getting up" that will prepare them for life.

It is hard to see to see my son upset or very disappointed but I am there if he needs a hug or to talk but I am not there to fix the problem just guide him in the right direction if he asks.

My two cents for what it is worth.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
3/12/13 6:27 A

@Obiesmom: "Helicopter Parents" - I had never heard that term before but then I looked it up.
www.wakeforestmontessori.com/wp-content/up
loads/2012/11/helicopter-parent-mom.jp
g


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ERINTFG SparkPoints: (40,902)
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3/11/13 10:02 P

My husband had to fire one of his (adult) employees a few years ago and the guy's dad called and reamed him out about.

That is crazy. CRAZY.

When I was in high school I acted like a jerk at work and got fired. My dad marched be back in there and made me apologize to my boss and beg for my job back. I can't imagine him marching in there and yelling at my BOSS. LOL

Erin
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3/11/13 4:43 P

Competition is part of learning. If everyone receives the same reward, the lesson is lost.


Do or do not. There is no try. - Yoda
OBIESMOM2 SparkPoints: (82,812)
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3/11/13 3:04 P

I heard an interview on the radio with an author. She had recently written a book about how 'helicopter parents' really damage their kids in the long run. She also did corporate presentations. Whenever she could, she spoke to the HR folks after her presentation. More than half of the HR folks shared a story about an employee's parent calling to discuss an unfavorable review or an unacceptable raise.

let me say that again: an employee's PARENT called because their precious angel didn't agree with their annual review or wanted a bigger raise!

????

I just...don't...know what to say. Since many of these were Fortune 500 companies, I doubt they were using child labor. If you are old enough to work, you should be old enough to fight most of your own battles. Mommy and Daddy shouldn't need to call your meany boss because he picked on you.

but if it will make you feel any better, here's your trophy emoticon



Edited by: OBIESMOM2 at: 3/12/2013 (11:24)
The most handicapped person in the world is a negative thinker; a person who has the skills, abilities, talents and tools, yet chooses not to use them.
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Forget your perfect offering, there is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in.
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KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
3/11/13 1:34 P

Yup, that's kinda bothersome to me.

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MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 14,200
3/11/13 1:25 P

This is something that bugs me. When children all get the same trophy, no matter how they played. It celebrates mediocrity. There is no incentive to do better next year.

Allowance or no allowance. I didn't want to clean my room ever.

Edited by: MANDIETERRIER1 at: 3/11/2013 (13:26)


Eat what you like and if someone comments, eat them too

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KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
3/11/13 9:20 A

Now if we are talking about jobs then we're talking about an entirely different subject.

Same job, same pay.

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WHOVIAN85 Posts: 861
3/10/13 8:18 A

Of course I WANT to do good on my project for myself and to get the best grade in cass KJ, my point is that I don't feel its fair for people who work hard to get the same grade as those who put little to no effort into the things they do. Its comparable to a work environment, if two employees who are trained to do the same thing, but one employee does a crappy job but still gets rewarded the same monthly bonus check, I don't think that is fair.JMO

"The good things donít always soften the bad things ó but vice versa ó the bad things donít necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant."
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KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
3/10/13 8:04 A

RE: participation ribbons
They're not a bad thing, they can be awarded to any and all participants in addition to the top three trophy winners.
----------------------------------------
------------

As for incentive to do better; I don't remember exactly when my mom talked to me about this but she told me the difference between intrinsic behavior vs extrinsic behavior. She would say, "I don't want to pay you to clean your room, I want you to WANT to clean your room without pay because you'll feel better about it"

o_O!?

She was right, though. But mostly I think she was just being "cheap" with me.
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I_HEART_MY_FAM Posts: 1,809
3/9/13 8:18 P

I get your point top three winners and that is it for trophies, we all can not be winners all of the time. It builds character to pick yourself up and try again. Although I will say size of trophy is irrelevant, the inscription that says 1st, 2nd and 3rd place should be good enough. A participation ribbon given to each person is okay with me, but not necessary. I have seen some kids really light up with a participation ribbon, so how could that be a bad thing?

WHOVIAN85 Posts: 861
3/9/13 7:38 P

I agree with everyone's comments, hubby and I were discussing this not too long ago. At my school, I ran into the same thing with our class projects, some students did not put any effort at all into their projects, yet because they did something rather than nothing and my teacher is laid back, we all got A's. What incentive do I have to work harder to make a really great project when I can half-ass it and still get an A on it.

"The good things donít always soften the bad things ó but vice versa ó the bad things donít necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant."
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KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
3/9/13 5:06 P

well now, no need to clarify my point, it seems everyone knew what I was talking about!

We Are The Champions!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFfCKy0nKr0
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GLITTERFAIRY77 Posts: 8,023
3/9/13 12:47 P

Right, Patti. If we don't teach our kids how to deal with hurt feelings-how are they going to handle hurt feelings??? It's life!

MamiSheli53 is my MOM!!!

Abi~Rochester, NY

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PATTIJOHNSON Posts: 2,075
3/9/13 12:44 P

Agree fully! I remember being in a bowling league when I was young. All of the bowlers got patches to sew on their shirts (for participation). We all knew and saw the trophies up front that would be awarded to the top winners, so there were no surprises when we didn't get one in the end because we didn't bowl as well as others. We can't all succeed at everything we do in life, and having a few losses and disappointments early on in life makes us stronger adults and teaches us how to deal with difficult situations later on (like the loss of a job, say). Losing either causes us to try harder or to realize our limitations at least.

I'm sad that schools/sports for kids have come to a point where our children are no longer allowed to experience the "real world" of winning and losing.

Keep a sense of humor. Remember, laughing burns calories too!

Laugh until it hurts! It's one of the few things in life that's still free!!

Any effort is better than no effort!
GLITTERFAIRY77 Posts: 8,023
3/9/13 12:25 P

Beautifully put, Jaminurse!

MamiSheli53 is my MOM!!!

Abi~Rochester, NY

Aim for progress...NOT perfection.

Starting weight July 2012: 310
(dates of accomplishment for the following to come)
GW1: 280 passed 2/8/13-278!
GW2: 250
GW3: 220
GW4: 200
GW5: 175

I can do ALLLLLL things through Christ who strengthens me.


"It's a long, hard climb-but I'm gonna get there."

"If you stay focused on the past, you will never be able to see what lies ahead."
ATHENA1966 Posts: 2,900
3/9/13 12:23 P

We don't do our kids any favors by coddling them. Competition is a part of life. Folks who are sheltered from this reality, don't know how to cope when faced with disappointment.

Jami



The only thing that stands between a person and what they want in life is the will to try it and the faith to believe it is possible.
-Rich DeVos
GLITTERFAIRY77 Posts: 8,023
3/9/13 12:07 P

I think I agree with you. I am so against celebrating mediocrity and fostering a sense of entitlement. There is nothing wrong with competition. Without real competition, what is the point of the Heisman, the Lombardi, the World Series Penant, etc.? There is none. Teach kids how to be good winners, and gracious losers, and teach them that you cannot possibly win them all. Losing is just a learning process, just as failure is. We learn to strive to be better. The consolation prize? You get try harder next season.

MamiSheli53 is my MOM!!!

Abi~Rochester, NY

Aim for progress...NOT perfection.

Starting weight July 2012: 310
(dates of accomplishment for the following to come)
GW1: 280 passed 2/8/13-278!
GW2: 250
GW3: 220
GW4: 200
GW5: 175

I can do ALLLLLL things through Christ who strengthens me.


"It's a long, hard climb-but I'm gonna get there."

"If you stay focused on the past, you will never be able to see what lies ahead."
ADAPTOR Posts: 1,831
3/9/13 11:20 A

Yup, entitlement has definitely become more a norm nowadays. You might be on to something here.

in eastern Washington State (PST)

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Learn to let it go when appropriate, learn to breathe deep and slow in a focused manner, keep moving, and seek contentment and happiness.
LOVEXAVIE SparkPoints: (33,834)
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3/9/13 11:07 A

You are dead on, KJ.
We are raising far too many people who feel entitled for simply breathing.


CMCOLE Posts: 2,667
3/9/13 9:54 A

My hubby and I were discussing trials and upsets the other day, and how parents are all about trying to protect their children from disappointments.

When they get older, they can't handle them.
Better to get a taste of reality earlier in life

SHERYLDS Posts: 12,824
3/9/13 8:51 A

I am not a sports person...so I am clueless about trophies

but when it comes to a TEAM...I would like to see the entire team celebrated,
because in the real world, most real competitions come from the group effort,
even though the 'star' player in the limelight gets all the accolades.
And when there is a player who thinks they are the 'star' and hogs the control of the 'ball', that team often loses to the other team.

guess what I am saying is that a real win comes from collaboration and I would like to see more of that taught to kids, vs the SURVIVOR manipulation (only one person wins) we see so much of in the media.

forgive me for being off on a tangent
Real success comes from being able to balance goals
between what you want and what the team needs.

Edited by: SHERYLDS at: 3/9/2013 (08:57)
Sheryl from New Jersey, EST...2015 start wt. 231
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3/9/13 8:25 A

I think I agree with what you're saying. With today's children's sports, it seems like there is an attempt to equalize and make everyone a winner. And that is somewhat true. As long as you went out and did your best, you win but not everyone can come in first.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
3/9/13 7:37 A

This may come off wrong so I may need to post several times to clarify my thoughts and here they are:

First place winners ought to get a first place BIG AZZ trophy. Second place a smaller trophy and third place a plaque. The other 13 individuals/teams get a congratulations and thanks for playing this year.

When I was a boy in the early 70's my little league team stunk. We knew it, the coaches knew it, everyone knew it. At the big banquet at the end of the season we all had a great time and my team, along with many other teams, went home that night without a trophy.

Today, I reflect on that time and thank the LORD that that was what happened to me because what if we all had gotten the same sized trophy as the team that won all of their games? Maybe I'd be a burden on society now and suck up resources not of my own doings, idk, but I'm a much better person today, I think, because I wasn't given a reward for doing jack-squat.

*ducking in 3,....2,....1,.....*

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