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EELPIE Posts: 2,700
6/11/14 8:10 P

Becky, I can't find that quote - can you post it please. lol, I even did a "find" with firefox of those exact words, and I still can't find it. ;)

Thanks.

The best exercise in the world is to bend down and help someone up.
DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 27,253
6/11/14 8:07 P

Of course everyone is going to be getting some saturated fat in their diet.
All fat sources are a blend of the 3: poly, mono and saturated.
But the key is to keep:
total fat intake around 20-35% of total calories
with poly and mono's making up about 2/3 or more of the fat in the diet , and
saturated fat making up 1/3 or less (10% or less of total calories).

To give the impression that eating "tons of saturated fat" (yes that is a quote from someone's post in this thread) is a medically appropriate and healthy decision---is incorrect and misleading and dangerous.

Becky

Edited by: DIETITIANBECKY at: 6/11/2014 (20:18)
JUSTEATREALFOOD Posts: 1,820
6/11/14 5:21 P

I think that saturated fats have been unfairly demonized. The science just doesn't seem to support the conclusion.

Like it or not, saturated fats are in real foods and I eat them. They are an important part of my whole foods diet.

Everyone is of course free to do what they like, just don't say the science is conclusive, because it's not.

JERF - Just Eat Real Food

I'm a Certified Personal Trainer.

I'm not a doctor or dietitian. I'm just a real whole foods nutrition nerd.

I eat mostly vegetables, fats, meats, some fruit and dark chocolate. Unprocessed and preservative free. And it's changed my life!

5'4"
Goal weight 125lbs
37 years old
2 kids

Keeping my blood sugar levels low eating 60-70% fat /15-20% carb / 15-20% protein.
RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/11/14 11:16 A

LOL. Thanks for the book Becky.

I went back 3-4 days to read all the posts, looking for anywhere that someone said that eating saturated fats was what a person should be doing. I didn't see it anywhere, so I don't know what " dangerous " information people are sharing.

I think JERF believes that it may be beneficial, but she isn't advocating it to others, or suggesting anyone eat any kind of diet ( except real food of course ). That's in your name JERF.

I think the people here are smart enough to understand that this is a discussion. Most of the recent discussion has been on the idea that you couldn't even do a study, because finding test subjects would be so hard. No one as far as I can tell, is saying people should eat more saturated fats, or that they are even OK. Just that there are reports/studies? saying they MAY not be the cause of CHD.

That doesn't reassure me that saturated fats are OK, and I think the average person still thinks that saturated fat needs to be limited.

All I was wondering was with all these recent news reports saying that saturated fats may not be linked to CHD, if that made anyone more inclined to eat them, or even stop worrying about them. A few people answered, and I thank them. Seems no one is convinced by a 5 minute story on the 5 o'clock news, or even Good Morning America.

Seems like the rest of the people are more concerned with either saying they are bad, or that they are good, which really has nothing to do with this entire thread. If a person believes that saturated fats are bad, 1000 studies saying otherwise isn't going to have any effect on how they eat, and the fact that they avoid saturated fats.

I find that a lot of my low carb friends are expecting any day now that a study will come out, and everyone will say " Oh! bacon, and mayo are good for you! ". Even if that did happen ( if you could get people to eat only bacon and mayo ), no one would care. People already have ideas on what is healthy.

There is still the comfort factor, even if people believe something is OK. There are a lot of healthy food out there that people still do not like, and they aren't going to eat it despite what any study says. The idea of proving that saturated fats are good for you, only matters if there are a bunch of people clamoring to eat more saturated fats. I don't think there is.

If a person doesn't have any desire to eat saturated fats, and is told they can now do so, they still wouldn't. Cauliflower is good for you ( pretty sure at least ), but it isn't like people hear this, and have run out and started eating lots of cauliflower. I don't think it would be any different for saturated fats.

There is a difference between what people hear, and what they feel, and that was why I started this thread. I don't plan on changing MY diet, and I doubt others do either, so I don't care either way if saturated fats are good or bad, or neutral.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford
JUSTEATREALFOOD Posts: 1,820
6/11/14 8:21 A

Wonderful! Just reading through it all. Seeing a lot of

May cause...

Potential factor...

Still unclear...

Pivotal issues that must be examined further...

-----------------------
This is stated in the introduction.


"However, these studies demonstrate associations; they do not necessarily infer causality, such as would be derived from controlled clinical trials. "

-----------------------

"Population data on monounsaturated fatty acid intake and risk of coronary heart disease (CHD) are limited. How- ever, in long-term follow-up studies of the Seven Countries Study, higher intakes of monounsaturated fatty acids were associated with decreased rates of CHD mortality (Keys et al."

Bacon fat is half monounsaturated.

-----------------------

Just skimmed it gotta get the kids off to school and go for a run. Will read more later.

JERF - Just Eat Real Food

I'm a Certified Personal Trainer.

I'm not a doctor or dietitian. I'm just a real whole foods nutrition nerd.

I eat mostly vegetables, fats, meats, some fruit and dark chocolate. Unprocessed and preservative free. And it's changed my life!

5'4"
Goal weight 125lbs
37 years old
2 kids

Keeping my blood sugar levels low eating 60-70% fat /15-20% carb / 15-20% protein.
DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 27,253
6/11/14 7:27 A

A little light reading with your morning cup of coffee:
www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/DRI//DRI_Energy/769-
879.pdf


If a macronutrient goes up, then another must go down.
Are you looking at a study on a healthy weight male or an obese male.
What is known, what is not known.

This pdf link tells how the marcronutrient ranges were determined---with all the research articles listed. Even has charts showing overviews of each and every study. If you really take the time to read it all---you will see why the consumer is confused. Lots of helpful research is available, but most consumers only "hear" don't eat this--do eat that. Yes, there is even some info on diets made up of 60-70% fat.

Happy Reading.

Becky

Edited by: DIETITIANBECKY at: 6/11/2014 (07:29)
JUSTEATREALFOOD Posts: 1,820
6/10/14 9:05 P

I found this Meta-analysis study earlier today which is applicable here.

-------------------------

Association of Dietary, Circulating, and Supplement Fatty Acids With Coronary Risk: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis

Purpose: To summarize evidence about associations between fatty acids and coronary disease.

Conclusion: Current evidence does not clearly support cardiovascular guidelines that encourage high consumption of polyunsaturated fatty acids and low consumption of total saturated fats.

annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1846638<
/a>

JERF - Just Eat Real Food

I'm a Certified Personal Trainer.

I'm not a doctor or dietitian. I'm just a real whole foods nutrition nerd.

I eat mostly vegetables, fats, meats, some fruit and dark chocolate. Unprocessed and preservative free. And it's changed my life!

5'4"
Goal weight 125lbs
37 years old
2 kids

Keeping my blood sugar levels low eating 60-70% fat /15-20% carb / 15-20% protein.
ALGEBRAGIRL Posts: 1,925
6/10/14 7:05 P

I track what I eat. It's amazing how much saturated fat still is there, And I have really cut it out of my diet.

DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 27,253
6/10/14 6:40 P

Attention: This thread is becoming a source of dangerous and inaccurate information.

"Strong and consistent" evidence indicates that polyunsaturated fat and monounsaturated fat are both associated with improved blood lipids related to cardiovascular disease when used as a "replacement for saturated fat."

Replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat sources:
--decreases total cholesterol
--lowers LDL (bad) cholesterol and triglycerides
--decreases numerous markers of inflammation
--decreases the risk of heart disease, and
--decreases the risk of type 2 diabetes

Like I already said...this is considered "strong evidence" because there are numerous studies, showing the same result.

AND...if that is not enough, look at the latest study relating saturated fat intake to an increase in obesity risk based on genetic profiling. Yes this is very preliminary research, yet still worthy of consideration and more research.
www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Sa
turated-fat-intake-may-affect-genetic-
obesity-risk


While I respect your right to eat foods that you consider appropriate for your health; this site does not permit the dissemination of inaccurate nutrition information that goes against research evidence. Giving the impression or stating personal opinion that saturated fat does not increase risk for disease is inaccurate and potentially harmful to our members. It is not permitted.

Thank You--
Becky
Your SP Registered Dietitian


I






Edited by: DIETITIANBECKY at: 6/10/2014 (19:38)
EELPIE Posts: 2,700
6/10/14 4:01 P

I find it ironic, I am reading the most recent replies eating my multigrain Wasa crisps, with a little softened butter spread on them....

The best exercise in the world is to bend down and help someone up.
RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/10/14 3:18 P

I think there is a lot of assumption going on HMBROWN, with health professionals erring on the side of caution until more becomes known.

" First do no harm " requires that.

I think studies would start with first finding if a high fat diet consisting of healthy fats could be consumed for longer periods of time, with no negative side effects. Easier to convince someone to eat 50, 60, or 70 % fat, if it is from avocados, olive oil, eggs, and meat/fish/fowl. We think of mono- and poly- unsaturated fats as being healthier, so we would start with that, and see what the results were.

I would love to see a 65 % fat, 25 % protein, 10 % carb diet versus a 50/20/30 ( diet suggested ), and the subjects monitored, and allowed to eat as much as they wanted if they were hungry, but had to stick to their macro ranges. I think one of the things that people discount about LCHF is the appetite suppression, and on the 50/20/30 the opposite is true for many. The speed at which one loses weight on a diet, matters little if you are starving while doing so. If carbs are low enough, you don't feel cravings, so you eat less. With the 50/20/30 diet, many people are ravenous and cheat on the diet.

They need to study both for appetite suppression, but also how well they work if both groups stick to the plan. My guess is that both work around the same if food intake is set, and followed, but left to their own food choices, those following a LCHF diet would naturally eat less, since they don't have any cravings.

That would still leave the issues of micronutrients, and saturated fats in the LCHF diet though. Especially if you ate less, you might not get enough nutrition, and with increased fat intake, you always run up against the idea of saturated fats. The 50/20/30 diet would still have to worry about micronutrients, but would have less of a chance of eating saturated fats.

I find it interesting. I think first they need to prove if LCHF can be done in a healthy way long term. The same is true for 50/20/30 also though. We have been following it ( poorly, I admit ) for 40 + years, and have an obesity epidemic. So we have to prove/disprove both CAN be done in a healthy way, and then work on HOW you can do it in a healthy way.

Saturated fats might be an issue best left to the end of the argument. I personally would rather see LCHF become a second alternative to the idea of a HCLF diet, and both diets cleaned up as to how they can be done properly.



"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford
HMBROWN1 Posts: 6,341
6/10/14 1:37 P

I just assumed that Saturated Fats were not good and tried to stay in the acceptable limit. Interesting ideas.

Find a bit of beauty in the world today. Share it. If you can't find it, create it. Some days this may be hard to do. Persevere. - Lisa Bonchek Adams
RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/10/14 9:25 A

Also LEC, if you did give the prisoners heart disease, now they just tripled the cost of them. A weeklong stay in the CCU can cost $100K. Oops! doesn't quite cut it..lol.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford
LEC358 SparkPoints: (10,946)
Fitness Minutes: (6,555)
Posts: 2,681
6/10/14 9:10 A

Basically you would need a long-term longitudinal study in a lab where you can control each aspect of the subject's diet and exercise. Few people would volunteer for such an endeavor. A prison population would be a good place to start, but that's an experimental ethics nightmare. And you would still be stuck with the lack of test subjects representing children, pregnant women, etc. Basically we're stuck with correlational studies (correlation != causation) and lab studies in mice.

RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/10/14 8:59 A

Since the goal of this study would be to see whether saturated fats caused heart disease, was neutral, or had health benefits, I think there would be few volunteers, for obvious reasons...lol

If there were health benefits, great. On the other hand, no one is going to put kids on this diet, unless 99 % sure it is not unhealthy. No one wants to say these words ... Well, we lost 3 more kids today!! I guess it is unhealthy.

The question is how to test the theory ( for OR against ). I don't worry about saturated fats, but I already have CHF, so all it could do is get worse. It has improved, and maybe that is from saturated fats? However, I don't know whether it was something else.. weight loss, increased exercise, lower carbs, eating real food, more veggies etc. You would need to control everything else.. micros, macros, calories, exercise and just increase the saturated fats. Not an easy study to conduct.

Maybe they could test this theory on heart patients. We tend to be low on options, so what they heck.. maybe it will be beneficial. Test subjects are going to be limited though. We may never have anything more than opinions, and best guesses based on studies we can run that are tangential.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford
JUSTEATREALFOOD Posts: 1,820
6/9/14 9:29 P

I was listening to a podcast today and on it the guest made an interesting point.

There have never been any saturated fat studies done on children. Most (all?) of the saturated fat studies have been done on middle aged men. It is quite possible that for children and women saturated fats might not only, not be harmful but possibly essential for healthy growth during childhood and during pregnancy for women.

I for one would be very interested to see some research done in that area.

JERF - Just Eat Real Food

I'm a Certified Personal Trainer.

I'm not a doctor or dietitian. I'm just a real whole foods nutrition nerd.

I eat mostly vegetables, fats, meats, some fruit and dark chocolate. Unprocessed and preservative free. And it's changed my life!

5'4"
Goal weight 125lbs
37 years old
2 kids

Keeping my blood sugar levels low eating 60-70% fat /15-20% carb / 15-20% protein.
RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/9/14 7:45 A

I also measure my olive oil, and any fat. It is calorie dense, and adds up quickly. I don't think olive oil is a problem though, neither are nuts, or avocados, or fish, chicken etc, in the proper amounts.

I think most people start to get leery when they hear about adding mayo, butter coconut oil, or extremely fatty red meats. The idea of purposefully adding saturated fats, still seems like a sin..lol.

I find that I don't really want to eat these foods on a daily basis. I eat 60-70 % fat, so it isn't that fat is an issue for me. I just prefer other kinds of fat. I do like butter, and occasionally mayo, or a steak, but the idea of spending $20 for coconut oil, or eating these foods on a daily basis to get some benefit, or just because I can, isn't something I plan to do.

Athena.. olive oil is good, and I hope you enjoy it, but don't copy my plan just because you think I am doing well. It isn't one food that makes the difference but your complete diet, and exercise plan. Clearly whatever you are doing is working as far as a healthy HDL. I finally got mine over 40.

Also want to say that compromise is wonderful, and we would all benefit from sharing ideas instead of telling everyone else how our plan is superior, but we don't need to all " meet in the middle ". We don't need to meet at all. Let some people do 50/20/30, others do vegan/vegetarian, other low carb, low fat, the Zone, or any diet that works for them. That is the great thing. We don't all have to eat one diet. Many of them work. So others can be over THERE with a healthy diet, and I can be over HERE eating low carb, and I can wave and say.. looking good over THERE!

If we both tried to merge our diets, we might both fail, and regain our weight. So do what works for you ( everyone ), and treat the posts here as discussion, and sharing, not as advice.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford
ATHENA1966 Posts: 2,980
6/7/14 7:32 P

Clearly Russell, you are doing something right. I’m going to put some Olive Oil on my Salmon. I really love the taste of that stuff. I think you hit the nail on the head. If we could ever stop trying to be right, and examine some of the positive outcomes, maybe we could meet in the middle. When I say we I mean society as a whole. And as you have stated many times, we are not robots, what works for some folks may not work for others.

I tend towards lower carb and probably eat higher fat than some folks. I eat eggs every single day. I still measure my olive oil, I just can’t help it. My lipid panel is picture perfect. My HDL’s for the past 5 years have been between 65 and 75. The other point that Becky made, and you have made, is that by losing weight, a person may decrease their risk of developing cardiovascular disease or Metabolic Syndrome. How we get there may be different, but the outcome is improved health.



Jami



The only thing that stands between a person and what they want in life is the will to try it and the faith to believe it is possible.
-Rich DeVos
CALLMECARRIE Posts: 1,598
6/7/14 7:17 P

Fat sources are so dense in calories I have to choose the fats I do eat very carefully. Since the polyunsaturated fats are so healthy, if I were to eat more saturated fat there wouldn't be room for the polyunsaturated fats. Fats add flavor, but I don't like the way a high-fat meal makes me feel and I understand what you mean, QueenEydie, about no longer liking that oily mouthfeel.

Having said that, though, when I run my Spark feedback report at the end of the day, I'm often under the recommendation on carbohydrates, and occasionally under the recommendation on protein. I'm almost never under on the recommendation for fat.

Edited by: CALLMECARRIE at: 6/7/2014 (19:18)
"I owe everything you see here to spaghetti."

-Sophia Loren
QUEEN-EYDIE Posts: 11,432
6/7/14 5:52 P

Russel, getting back to your original question, I can't quite wrap my head around the idea that saturated fat is okay. It's not for me anyway. I lost all my excess weight with a lowfat diet and just lost my taste for it. I want to love coconut oil and I'd like to believe that my very occasional use of it is truly good for me, but, as I say, I'm not there yet. Just don't like that oily mouthfeel. I do love monounsaturated fats like avocados and nuts though.




Edited by: QUEEN-EYDIE at: 6/9/2014 (07:57)
"Optimism is an act of bravery."

"Choices, not sacrifices."
MOTHERBOARDER SparkPoints: (148,435)
Fitness Minutes: (101,399)
Posts: 7,809
6/7/14 12:15 P

today

RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/7/14 11:02 A

I think the problem with this, is that you can get saturated fats from a bacon double cheeseburger, or from a filet of fish cooked in butter.

How you get your saturated fats matters. My dinner is 1 lb of tilapia, cooked in 2 Tbsp butter, and that is 18 grams of saturated fat. A lb of my boneless skinless chicken thighs has 10 grams, and each of my XL eggs has 2 grams. Butter is 7 grams per Tbsp., and tilapia is 1 grams per 4 ozs.

Everything is on a scale. I am sure most people would think the fish, and chicken were better than the eggs, and the eggs better than the butter. How much matters too.

There are other unhealthy thing about the bacon double cheeseburger that add on to the saturated fats, and might prevent a true judgement on whether the sat. fats are healthy/unhealthy.

You would need to isolate saturated fats from other unhealthy sources that might cause heart disease. That is hard to do. Also finding volunteers for a study that might cause heart disease isn't that easy..lol.

Personally, since I already have heart disease, that doesn't scare me as much, and while I don't search out saturated fats, I just consume them as I find them, and focused on losing weight, which has improved my heart, and got me off diabetes meds, as well as helped me go from being on oxygen, to exercising 90-120 minutes a day, 7 days a week.

Those other factors might be overcoming the saturated fats I am eating though. Losing weight and hours of exercise have benefits. If I was 300, and sedentary, maybe the saturated fats would do me in.

I think the most important thing is that I found a diet that helped me lose weight, and that improved my health. Of course on low carb, I can't very well avoid saturated fats, so if there is anything wrong with them, I will choose appetite restriction, and weight loss, and accept any possible risk from the saturated fats.

After eating saturated fats for 5 years with ever increasing health, I want to believe that they aren't harmful at the least, but when health is improving rapidly, who knows which healthy habit is the cause, or which unhealthy habit has been overcome.

I will probably just continue to try to eat lean meats, and add olive oil, as I have been doing most of the time, and not worry about if it is saturated or unsaturated as much as whether the food is healthy.

I listen to all the arguments for and against by the low carb , and low fat groups, and I could bounce back and forth due to good arguments on both sides, but I think sometimes they focus so much on the arguments that they forget that the bottom line is making people healthy, not beating the other side in an argument. Both sides get a position, and defend it to the death, and all I want to know is will they kill me. The answer seems to be .. Maybe? Maybe not?

emoticon real big help! The problem is neither side starts with a question. They know the answer, and do a study to prove it. Because of that, no one really trusts either side. There aren't any impartial studies done any more.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford
CALLMECARRIE Posts: 1,598
6/6/14 8:10 A

My intention with the links I posted was not to provide proof that saturated fat causes heart disease. Obviously that's in question. It was to counter the seeming suggestion that there were no human studies (?!) or not very many studies or no studies linking serum cholesterol and heart disease. My point is, there are precedents for the conflicting advice. No credible authority I've read has dismissed all concern about saturated fat and suggested we go whole hog eating them. The overall message I'm getting on fats is that polyunsaturated fats -- olive oil, nuts, seeds, avocados, vegetable oils -- are the really healthy sources of fat. Saturated fats are OK in moderation, but shouldn't be your main source of fats.

I eat butter, I eat beef. (Never margarine!) Cream seems to me to be one of the most delicious, beautiful food items that exist. But some internet sources and some people on Spark seem to say "Yay saturated fat, gimme more." That seems like a bad idea to me.

"I owe everything you see here to spaghetti."

-Sophia Loren
DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 27,253
6/6/14 7:21 A

This is probably one of the strongest research studies on the topic of saturated fat and heart disease:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Mozaffar
ian%2C+Effects+on+coronary+heart+disea
se+of+increasing+polyunsaturated


However....
Saturated fat intake is not the main issue regarding heart disease that it was 30 years ago. It is still just as harmful. But overall, we have changed our diets when it comes to saturated fat.
Today...the huge issue is now obesity. Obesity leads to diabetes and metabolic syndrome which raises the risk of heart disease. And one of the causes of obesity is tasty, attractive, cheap, convenient food that is present 24/7....double bacon cheeseburgers, cola by the gallons, French fries, ice cream..... notice these foods are high in calories due to the refined carbohydrates, fat content, and saturated fat content.

I think it is easy to get lost in discussions over singe nutrients; instead focusing on the quality of the overall diet. This thread is a perfect example of this.

Becky





JCOW84 SparkPoints: (8,997)
Fitness Minutes: (17,118)
Posts: 295
6/6/14 12:16 A

Great topic! I think I try to limit my saturated fats because that's how I've been "told" to eat through media/current research - I also think that the fact that it is called "saturated" fat lends itself to being visually yucky (I don't want to be saturated in fat, lol). I know that sounds crazy, but there it is!

On the flip side though, if choosing between a processed "healthy" choice like margarine or plain old butter, I choose the butter every time because it's natural.

I suppose the biggest lesson is that research and diet trends change all of the time, and if you eat everything in moderation and try to stick to unprocessed foods, you will probably be okay.



EXOTEC Posts: 3,327
6/6/14 12:09 A

First, pardon me for mentioning olive oil in the same comment with saturated fats. It certainly is not, and I am duly admonished.

As to the links...

Regarding the first abstract…

In
*observational epidemiologic*

studies, lower blood cholesterol is

*associated with*

a reduced risk from coronary heart disease (CHD) throughout the normal range of cholesterol values observed in most Western populations. There is a continuous positive relationship between CHD risk and blood cholesterol down to at least 3 to 4 mmol/l, with no threshold below which a lower cholesterol is not associated with a lower risk.

*Observational studies*
*suggest*

that a prolonged difference in total cholesterol of about 1 mmol/l is associated with one-third less CHD deaths in middle age. Evidence from large-scale cholesterol lowering trials in patients at high-risk of CHD have demonstrated that much of the epidemiologically predicted difference in CHD risk associated with differences in cholesterol was achieved within a few years of treatment. Moreover, these trials have demonstrated that such therapy was not associated with increased non-CHD mortality. Total cholesterol is transported in blood as low-density lipoprotein cholesterol or LDL cholesterol (about 70%) and as high density lipoprotein cholesterol or HDL cholesterol (about 30%). Since these two cholesterol fractions have opposing effects on vascular risk, a 1 mmol/l reduction in LDL cholesterol is

*likely to be associated with*

40 to 50% lower CHD risk. The size of the absolute reduction in CHD produced by lowering total and LDL cholesterol is

*determined by an individual's overall risk rather than their initial cholesterol level.*

Consequently, the benefits of drug treatment to lower LDL cholesterol are greater in those at higher absolute risk of CHD rather than at high cholesterol levels. Dietary saturated fat is the chief determinant of total and LDL cholesterol levels. Replacing 60% of the intake of saturated fat by other fats and reducing the intake of dietary cholesterol

*could*

reduce blood total cholesterol levels

*by about 0.8 mmol/l*

(that is by 10 to 15%), with four fifths of this reduction being in LDL cholesterol.
===================================
These are not nutritional trials conducted under strict control in humans. “Observations” and “associations” and “suggestions” are not equivalent to conclusive evidence, IMO.
I’m not sure I’d be especially excited to reduce my (non-CVD-causing) cholesterol by 0.8 mmol/l by cutting fats from my diet, either. Especially in light of what I’ve read regarding LOW cholesterol levels in persons having cardiovascular events.
===================================

Regarding the second link…

BACKGROUND:
Age, sex, and blood pressure could modify the associations of total cholesterol (and its main two fractions, HDL and LDL cholesterol) with vascular mortality. This

*meta-analysis*

combined prospective studies of vascular mortality that recorded both blood pressure and total cholesterol at baseline, to determine the joint relevance of these two risk factors.

METHODS:
Information was obtained from 61

*prospective observational studies,*

mostly in western Europe or North America, consisting of almost 900,000 adults without previous disease and with baseline measurements of total cholesterol and blood pressure. During nearly 12 million person years at risk between the ages of 40 and 89 years, there were more than 55,000 vascular deaths (34,000 ischaemic heart disease [IHD], 12,000 stroke, 10,000 other). Information about HDL cholesterol was available for 150,000 participants, among whom there were 5000 vascular deaths (3000 IHD, 1000 stroke, 1000 other). Reported associations are with usual cholesterol levels (ie, corrected for the regression dilution bias).

FINDINGS:
1 mmol/L lower total cholesterol was associated with about a half (hazard ratio 0.44 [95% CI 0.42-0.48]), a third (0.66 [0.65-0.68]), and a sixth (0.83 [0.81-0.85]) lower IHD mortality in both sexes at ages 40-49, 50-69, and 70-89 years, respectively, throughout the main range of cholesterol in most developed countries, with no apparent threshold. The proportional risk reduction decreased with increasing blood pressure, since the absolute effects of cholesterol and blood pressure were approximately additive. Of various simple indices involving HDL cholesterol, the ratio total/HDL cholesterol was the strongest predictor of IHD mortality (40% more informative than non-HDL cholesterol and more than twice as informative as total cholesterol).

***Total cholesterol was weakly positively related to ischaemic and total stroke mortality in early middle age (40-59 years), but this finding could be largely or wholly accounted for by the association of cholesterol with blood pressure. Moreover, a positive relation was seen only in middle age and only in those with below-average blood pressure; at older ages (70-89 years) and, particularly, for those with systolic blood pressure over about 145 mm Hg, total cholesterol was negatively related to haemorrhagic and total stroke mortality.***

The results for other vascular mortality were intermediate between those for IHD and stroke.

INTERPRETATION:
Total cholesterol was positively associated with IHD mortality in both middle and old age and at all blood pressure levels. The absence of an independent positive association of cholesterol with stroke mortality, especially at older ages or higher blood pressures, is unexplained, and invites further research. Nevertheless, there is conclusive evidence from randomised trials that statins substantially reduce not only coronary event rates but also total stroke rates in patients with a wide range of ages and blood pressures.
Comment in
• Review: lower total cholesterol is associated with reduced risk of death from ischaemic heart disease but not stroke.
============================
A meta-analysis is very similar to what any of us here do who are interested in researching a topic. You read reports and draw conclusions. It’s not the same as performing testing which might provide practical results. That’s not to say these things aren’t valuable, because they certainly are. But they should lead us to perform those studies, not to just swallow the conclusions. There is no indication of controls applied. These are important factors in reputable research. They’re also why it’s so difficult and expensive to perform.
Another problem with peer-reviewed literature is that if you don’t produce conclusions already in popular thought, any study you perform is unlikely to even be considered by “peers”… and therefore doesn’t make it into the current stream of enquiry and learning. How many career cardiologists are now coming forward to tell us that so much of what they practiced over the years hasn’t been optimal? New methods and new theories are being suggested and being proven out in practice… and no, I don’t consider these “studies” either. But I can’t throw out evidence of success just because it didn’t involve many hundreds of humans in blind and extensive studies (at horrific expense).
It’s very convenient to go to the peer-reviewed sites and take those abstracts and conclusions to heart. I read them with interest also, but I don’t consider them the ONLY information relevant to my health. We’ve been led astray before, whether by intent or by simple error and ignorance. Or by imperfectly controlled studies. I think it’s equally valuable to consider alternate and newer research, especially if it can be correlated across several platforms. Science is about change and new information. And I’m grateful for it, since if we refused to consider anything deviating from what we already “know”, we would still be living in some equivalent of the Dark Ages.


...the problem with people these days is
they've forgotten we're really just animals ...
(attributation forgotten)

We did not create the web of life; we are but a strand in it.
~attributed to Chief Seattle

We don't have souls. We ARE souls. We have bodies.
~C.S. Lewis
JUSTEATREALFOOD Posts: 1,820
6/5/14 10:52 P

I find it somewhat annoying that the statement, corrolation does not equal causation, seems to be used a lot here at SP. However when it comes to saturated fats that statement doesn't seem to apply for some reason.

The fact is that there are no studies to my knowledge that can directly link saturated fats and saturated fats alone to heart disease. If I am mistaken please point me to them. Most people who get heart disease have other health issues. Smoking and being overweight being two of the biggest.

Neither of the studies you link to look at any other health markers than cholesterol. Did these people smoke? Were they overweight? Did they drink alcohol? Did they exercise? Were their lives very stressful? All of those things are very important considerations that are overlooked.





Edited by: JUSTEATREALFOOD at: 6/5/2014 (22:54)
JERF - Just Eat Real Food

I'm a Certified Personal Trainer.

I'm not a doctor or dietitian. I'm just a real whole foods nutrition nerd.

I eat mostly vegetables, fats, meats, some fruit and dark chocolate. Unprocessed and preservative free. And it's changed my life!

5'4"
Goal weight 125lbs
37 years old
2 kids

Keeping my blood sugar levels low eating 60-70% fat /15-20% carb / 15-20% protein.
CALLMECARRIE Posts: 1,598
6/5/14 8:54 P

"I eat plenty of healthy saturated fats: animal, coconut oil, (regular) olive oil, butter, etc." Olive oil is not a saturated fat. Nor is anyone here advocating a low-fat diet.

Do you really think there haven't been studies involving humans on the links between saturated fat and cardiovascular disease? Or that the studies on humans have only been observational studies? Five minutes of browsing on PubMed proves otherwise.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16222621
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18061058/

Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you say blood cholesterol doesn't have anything to do with coronary disease. To quote one of the links above, "There is a continuous positive relationship between CHD risk and blood cholesterol down to at least 3 to 4 mmol/l, with no threshold below which a lower cholesterol is not associated with a lower risk."

If your position is that there are studies showing the opposite, or that the research isn't definitive, sure. But your statement that cardiovascular disease doesn't have anything to do with blood cholesterol is baffling. The reason that the belief *excess saturated fat causes an increase in cholesterol which causes an increase in heart disease* is persistent is precisely because there has been a great deal of solid research showing that it's true. Just one of the studies I linked here studied 900,000 adults over nearly 12 million person years. It would be bad science to simply dismiss that.


"I owe everything you see here to spaghetti."

-Sophia Loren
EXOTEC Posts: 3,327
6/5/14 2:34 P

So far as present perceptions ... I think the "powers who be" are still encouraging us away from saturated fats. I believe this is how the general public interprets their statements, at least. If that was not true, we wouldn't still be in the clutches of all the low-fat/no-fat/reduced-fat marketing. It's ubiquitous. Most every nutritional website, blogsite, and "expert" continues to target the unhealthy aspects of fats. I think the general public simply sees it as anathema, and rejects fats in any and all forms.

In re: saturated fats raise cholesterol...
Well, I don't have the research handy on that, but the research I *do* recall was performed on rabbits, or as observational and environmental studies. In the first case, you can't extrapolate nutritional intake from rabbits onto human nutrition. If they'd at least used pigs or some correlative species, I *might* be more willing to accept the data. As it is, rabbits bear no resemblance to our dietary requirements. That data is invalid, IMO.
In the second case, there's only so much good and reliable information you can get from observational studies. They're very useful to point you toward things which need deeper and better-controlled *actual* studies... and that on human subjects! But nutritional studies of that nature are so horrifically expensive, I think it's unlikely we're going to get many. Especially with the food producers making every attempt to influence the outcomes in favor of their products.

That being said, even IF saturated fats raise cholesterol - that's not the point. It's the wrong question! Cholesterol has never been shown to be causative in cardiovascular disease. What we should be asking is how to prevent cardiovascular disease, and how to improve our health along those lines. That hasn't anything to do with blood cholesterol, which is actually cardioPROTECTIVE. Those people who suffer cardiovascular events actually have *lower* cholesterol levels... and women in particular are the most susceptible to this.

On a personal level, I eat plenty of healthy saturated fats: animal, coconut oil, (regular) olive oil, butter, etc. My labs are usually perfect, and I monitor them regularly. This is just my experience, naturally. I wouldn't advocate my dietary lifestyle onto anyone else who has a plan which is working for them, or might go contrary to their healthcare team's advice.
But I do think that what we're getting in the media (popular OR medical) is skewed, and many times misinterpreted by the end-user.



...the problem with people these days is
they've forgotten we're really just animals ...
(attributation forgotten)

We did not create the web of life; we are but a strand in it.
~attributed to Chief Seattle

We don't have souls. We ARE souls. We have bodies.
~C.S. Lewis
SUNSHINE6442 Posts: 2,010
6/5/14 11:41 A

The American Heart Association says
Saturate fats raise cholesterol....I stay away from them.

The CDC also says stay away from them
www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/fat/
saturatedfat.html

Breast cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles
/PMC1199629/


Healthy Fats are better for you,,,,check out this slide show
www.livestrong.com/slideshow/1007577-18-fa
trich-foods-good/#slide=1


KASTRA Posts: 369
6/4/14 4:08 P

Anarie, that's interesting and reassuring - thank you. I always hear people say exercise brings heart rate to a lower resting rate, but that's the opposite of what I need. To date, I still get a bit shaky and occasionally get wildly dizzy (almost to the point of vertigo) if I stand too fast, even after incorporating 90+ minutes a week of low-impact cardio. I'll admit that is part of the reason I've gone a bit soft on really stepping up my cardio intensity because I can't really afford to have resting heart rate drop much further. I had a medical issue a few years ago where the standard treatment was prescribing blood pressure medications but my doctor said I just had to muscle through it because those meds would likely make me non-functional even at the lowest possible dosage.

I guess the opposite issue is just what is most commonly talked about since high blood pressure is a much more common problem.

Starting: 41.1 BMI and extremely sedentary
Current: 28.0 BMI with strength-training and low-impact cardio
Mini-goal: 29.9 BMI (about 164 lb) - DONE on 8/6/14! I'm no longer obese!
Mini-goal: 5K walk or run
Mini-goal: 24.9 BMI (about 136 lb)
Mini-goal: half-marathon walk or run
GOAL: 23 BMI (about 125 pounds), fit and active
ANARIE Posts: 12,627
6/4/14 3:51 P

Kastra,

I also had very low blood pressure-- too low-- when I was obese. Believe it or not, it gets *better* with weight loss and exercise. I'm still below "normal," but the days when it would drop so low that I couldn't stand up without getting dizzy are over. We usually talk about obesity as a factor in high blood pressure, but really we should talk about blood pressure abnormalities.

CALLMECARRIE Posts: 1,598
6/4/14 3:43 P

It isn't the calories that are the problem with saturated fats. One tablespoon of butter actually has slightly fewer calories than 1 tablespoon of olive oil. As for taste, there's no question, saturated fats win. But even if you decide the research has proven saturated fats are fine in terms of cardiovascular health (a bad idea, IMO) diets high in saturated fat are linked to breast cancer, and possibly colon and prostate cancer. Also, unless you're eating a high-fat diet overall, eating more saturated fat means you're eating less of the good fats and missing out on the benefits of nuts, vegetable oils, fish, avocados, etc.

"I owe everything you see here to spaghetti."

-Sophia Loren
MANDIETERRIER1 Posts: 14,256
6/4/14 2:55 P

Sign me up to the Bacon Lovers Anonymous club. And the butter and cream lovers club. I do consume these items and I have lost weight. I cut back on them. I don't eat as much as I used to when I was at my highest weight.

Something with a little butter on it makes me feel fuller than something without.



Eat what you like and if someone comments, eat them too

My Rat Terrier has Congestive Heart Failure and other health problems. Making a purchase from
Mandies_Friends Zazzle Store helps with her medical costs
www.zazzle.com/mandies_friends+gifts

KASTRA Posts: 369
6/4/14 12:08 P

As a resident in the south, where cooking in butter and bacon fat and frying literally everything is "just the way it's done," and in a state that ranks very high on every CDC report for heart disease, I use anecdotal evidence to tell me that saturated fats are not an ideal part of a healthy diet, regardless of what any reports state. Unsaturated fats, yes...saturated fats should be kept to a minimum. In our production facility of about 30 people, at least half of them are on medications for high blood pressure and cholesterol, two have suffered heart failure of some kind in the last two years, and I see more on the way. Now, as Becky pointed out, there are plenty of other factors that contribute to that. For instance, about 40% of them smoke.

Personally, even when I ate almost no veggies or fruits (maybe a small serving of green beans or corn at dinner each day and rarely a salad), almost all red meat, and ate a ton of foods with saturated fat, my bloodwork was always well within normal and recommended guidelines; in fact, my blood pressure has always been a tiny bit on the low side. It could be a sign that saturated fat is not the enemy, but I think it's more likely that I got lucky and beat the odds (everyone in my family is the opposite). Now that I'm really working to refine my eating habits, I'm actually a little concerned that I'll dip under those ranges into too low categories, particularly for blood pressure. I do not plan to add high doses of saturated fats or take up smoking to combat that, though.

(Although, I am a secret member of BLA as well! Only a few slices each weekend, though.)

Edited by: KASTRA at: 6/4/2014 (12:10)
Starting: 41.1 BMI and extremely sedentary
Current: 28.0 BMI with strength-training and low-impact cardio
Mini-goal: 29.9 BMI (about 164 lb) - DONE on 8/6/14! I'm no longer obese!
Mini-goal: 5K walk or run
Mini-goal: 24.9 BMI (about 136 lb)
Mini-goal: half-marathon walk or run
GOAL: 23 BMI (about 125 pounds), fit and active
RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/4/14 9:48 A

LOL Athena. @ Bacon Lovers Anonymous Club.

I eat a low carb diet, but have never had a love for bacon, or greasy foods, including skins on fowl. I find them to be disgusting really.

Even if they are not unhealthy, no one has to eat them. If what you are eating is healthy, and working, it would be foolish to change anything every time something changes. I think a lot of people share your viewpoint. They either can't accept the idea, or just don't want to eat saturated fats even if they are okay. I am guessing your doctor would still tell you to limit it, until more study is done on the subject.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford
ATHENA1966 Posts: 2,980
6/4/14 9:29 A

I personally do have a difficult time wrapping my mind around saturated fats being healthy or not being the cause of heart disease. My answer has nothing to do with the science or research. Now the part of me that belongs to the, "Bacon Lovers Anonymous Club" wants it to be true. But the part of me that was raised to believe saturated fat is bad, bad, bad, just can't. Logically, I am well aware that research changes. I guess I am stuck with it.

Jami



The only thing that stands between a person and what they want in life is the will to try it and the faith to believe it is possible.
-Rich DeVos
DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 27,253
6/4/14 9:29 A

Oh, sorry I misread your post.

Based on scientific researech (controlled, experimental studies) scientists have figured out that saturated fat increases LDL cholesterol, which increases risk of heart disease.

So I guess your post is in how the media (to gain market share, and sell newspapers and magazines) often misinterrprets science. Yes, as a Registered Dietitian and a consumer, this greatly frustrates me. It only confuses the consumer. The public doesn't know "what" to believe or do. Thus, they may be harming their body by relying on the inaccuracy of such consumer pieces.

So my advice would be to "know the source." If you are reading an article that reports that "saturated fats are okay".....what is the source, find the source, read the study. Is it an observational study or an acutal clinical trial.

Becky

RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/4/14 8:50 A

Becky. I am not for or against the idea of saturated fats. That is up to scientists to figure out, as well as how much, and how often?

I was more interested in how people were reacting to the idea. It is a complete reversal of what people have heard their entire life, and is relatively new concept. All my life I have heard they caused heart disease. I was wondering if people were skeptical in general, or accepting of the idea, even cautiously.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford
CALLMECARRIE Posts: 1,598
6/4/14 8:41 A

Very interesting topic. I have been reading about this and having this discussion with others here on Spark. My own view is that I'm not ready to say saturated fat is fine. Someone here on Spark once told me that my concerns about saturated fat were "nothing," and that no research has ever proven that saturated fat causes heart disease. I think she was coming from a perspective of really wanting to believe saturated fat was fine, having a whole personal ethic and point of view invested in a certain way of eating that she thought was "natural."

Like Becky said, anecdotal evidence is not of much use. People who log onto a discussion board on a website devoted to healthy eating and exercise and say "I eat butter and my cholesterol is fine," probably don't represent the average. By definition those of us in this discussion are people who have been trying to get healthy, probably using multiple methods. Even if you find 100 Sparkers who eat saturated fat and are in great health, that proves nothing for the general public. And what happens if you check back with us in 20 years? What did our grandparents die of? What other habits contribute to our cardiovascular health profile? Even if one person can prove that he or she eats plenty of saturated fat and is in great health, that doesn't mean saturated fat, in general, is not a risk factor. If you extrapolate from your own example and tell everyone else "go ahead and eat butter and bacon, they're no problem" you could potentially be giving disastrous advice to someone who doesn't share your genetic good luck.

Just last night I ate a turkey and cheese sandwich toasted in a pan with butter, and it was delicious. It's been a long time since I ate anything browned in butter, and it's about the best thing in the world. However, I'm going to keep that a rare occurence. Meats and vegetables browned in olive oil also taste very good. I just think there are plenty of tasty foods out there and I am not ready to dismiss 50 years of established medical advice on the basis of studies that I may or may not understand. And thank you Becky, for helping us understand how to approach the evidence. It certainly is confusing reading all the different articles about this topic.





"I owe everything you see here to spaghetti."

-Sophia Loren
SOAPSANDROPES Posts: 695
6/4/14 8:30 A

When I was a kid in the 80s my parents jumped onto the low fat and healthy fat bandwagon in an attempt to lower my father's cholesterol. As an adult I take a much more moderate approach to things. I would rather eat some butter rather than an artificial butter flavored spread (and fat free half and half, just no). I like a good piece of red meat. Combined with regular exercise and my blood work has never been better. So when someone says to me that saturated fats might not be bad, I am not surprised.

DIETITIANBECKY Posts: 27,253
6/4/14 8:11 A

I think there is confusion because some studies are using observational data; while other studies use clinical trials.

This thread is a perfect example. People are saying, "I eat butter and meat fat....etc" But what does this really mean. How much? How often? How many years? and What did your lab values and disease risk do over those years? See....observational studies are very limited.

If you take the topic of saturated fat and you look specifically at experimental studies that change "only" one thing and keep everything else constant; then what happens. Well, the studies that did this and replaced saturated fat (butter, meat fat, dairy fat) to polyunsaturated fat (corn oil, soybean oil, sunflower oil, etc)....these studies consistently showed a fall in coronary heart disease, exactly to the extent that you would expect from the fall in the LDL cholesterol level.

Now, I know many of you will say...but I do this and this happened. I did that and this happened. Most of the time, you start to lose weight, change many things about your diet (fat, carbs, protein, fruits, veggies, etc), start exercising, (ALL at the same time). So how do you know what change made the improvement???

To find out the answer to your question...look at research studies that are clinical control trials that randomly assigned people to eat either saturated fat or polyunsaturated fat (and that is ALL that changed). Then you will have an answer to your question that is based on scientific research.

Becky
Your SP Registered Dietitian

JUSTEATREALFOOD Posts: 1,820
6/4/14 8:09 A

I eat a good amount of saturated fat everyday and feel it is healthy for me. Cold pressed palm and coconut oil, pastured beef and pork, eggs, butter and heavy cream are a healthy part of my real foods "diet". In fact I would much rather eat these fats than the refined seed oils, which I don't believe are healthy or natural.

Frying my asparagus in a little bacon fat and palm oil is just devine.

JERF - Just Eat Real Food

I'm a Certified Personal Trainer.

I'm not a doctor or dietitian. I'm just a real whole foods nutrition nerd.

I eat mostly vegetables, fats, meats, some fruit and dark chocolate. Unprocessed and preservative free. And it's changed my life!

5'4"
Goal weight 125lbs
37 years old
2 kids

Keeping my blood sugar levels low eating 60-70% fat /15-20% carb / 15-20% protein.
PSCHIAVONE2 SparkPoints: (18,903)
Fitness Minutes: (12,489)
Posts: 520
6/4/14 7:45 A

I think that saturated fats are an important part of a diet. As I get older I feel better eating some saturated fat. If you look at it saturated fats are involved even in the "healthy" fats like avocado and olive oil. I tend to eat full fat everything, I never bought into the low fat diet.

Weight is the result of what you have been doing for the past week.
MRSBENNETT2 Posts: 1,621
6/4/14 3:34 A

I eat saturated fat. Butter, whole fat cheese and yogurt, and chicken skin if it's crispy, and the fat off a nice piece of meat. I don't worry about it, but it's not the sum total of my diet. :)

RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/4/14 1:57 A

The thing is, there is no proof that more saturated fats WILL be a problem at all. That is just what we believe.

I am not asking for a debate on the topic itself, just wondering if the idea seems like it is wrong still, despite all this talk.

Personally, I eat tons of saturated fat, and already had congestive heart failure which has improved after eating this way, but I still sometimes feel like it is wrong to be eating butter, eggs, and meat. I think total diet matters, and that in some diets it might be healthy, and in others unhealthy, based on what you eat besides it, as ANARIE pointed out. I think we pick and choose one or two things to say are unhealthy, but may be doing many other things that are also unhealthy, which may be the real culprit. So maybe it is Pop Tarts for breakfast causing heart disease, not the steak for dinner. Hard to actually KNOW for sure what is the problem since so many of us eat a LOT of bad things.. which one is the cause?

Trying to argue whether saturated fats are good or bad would just devolve into a pointless disagreement. What I am wondering is what you think when you hear that statement. Does it sound strange when someone says saturated fats may not be unhealthy, or even beneficial?

I remember as a kid, when low fat became the new fad diet, and everything had to be low-fat. My Dad scoffed at it, since HIS whole life, he had been told that carbohydrates made people fat, and the thing that took him forever to switch to was skim milk. He hated it, said it looked like water. Just because someone says something is healthy, does not mean that anyone is listening.

I am wondering if anyone is listening to this, and if so, do they think it is right or wrong. A few studies, or news articles, probably aren't going to change 30 years of training by the government. Do you plan to stick to the low fat diet, or does this change your thinking in any way?

We hear this information almost daily now, but I wonder how much people actually pay attention to, and how much is dismissed as nonsense. Are bananas, and eggs really " bad " ?

So while the topic needs to be studied more, most people have a reaction to hearing that saturated fats may be okay, or even beneficial. That is kind of what I am wondering. What is the first thing that statement makes you think? Impossible? Possible? You don't want to eat saturated fat anyways?

Edited by: RUSSELL_40 at: 6/4/2014 (01:59)
"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford
MRSBENNETT2 Posts: 1,621
6/3/14 11:32 P

I've been interested in health topics for a lot of years and am only just beginning to notice there's a definite cycle. Certain ideas go in and out of fashion/circulation, just like certain food products. I remember back in the mid-80's when frozen yogurt was EVERYWHERE, then it disappeared. Now it's trendy again.

My take on saturated fats is...it's natural. Well, my idea of saturated fats are animal fats and butter, and nut and seed oils. Natural has got to be a heck of a lot better for us than products that are created in a lab somewhere and advertised as "healthy". My husband wants to use that ProActiv margarine for his cholesterol levels which were slightly up at a recent physical. So he switched, and he still gets on me for using butter. Thing is, I only use a couple teaspoons of butter every day, not huge amounts. Probably someone who overconsumes saturated fats might have a problem.

ANARIE Posts: 12,627
6/3/14 11:15 P

I think it's one example of how people misunderstand science and then feel miffed when the information "changes" from what they think they've always heard. People who were doing research never said saturated fat "causes" heart disease. If you go back and look at real health information, not magazine articles, it always said something more like,

"A diet high in saturated fat may be a major contributor to heart disease."

And that's probably still true. Most people whose diets are high in saturated fat are probably at increased risk for heart disease. It's just that, as more research is done, the understanding is being refined and it's becoming apparent that it's probably not exactly the fat itself that's harmful, but the diet as a whole. Most people who eat diets that are high in saturated fat aren't getting it from butter on their carrots; they're getting it from meat lovers' pizza, chocolate chip cookies, and cheeseburgers. It's not so much the fat that they're eating as the processed meat and white flour and sugar, AND, more to the point, all the things they're NOT eating, like vegetables. But it takes a while to suss that out, because it's hard to separate the fat from the whole diet.

EELPIE Posts: 2,700
6/3/14 9:10 P

I'm not leery at all. I make it a part of my diet every day - I find that they help me stay satiated, and I kinda feel good, too emoticon

I had some butter mixed in with my spiced barley and carrots for lunch - and then I had some softened butter spread on my rye Wasa Crips today. Yum!

The best exercise in the world is to bend down and help someone up.
RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
6/3/14 8:59 P

I keep reading that saturated fats might not be the cause of heart disease now, but I am wondering how people are reacting to this news.

Do you think that it may be true, or that it can't be possible?

Is 30 years of hearing that it is bad for you, not going to be offset by a few studies, or news stories? Are you still leery of saturated fats?

I'm just kind of wondering what people think, when they hear this.

"We can't solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them "

- Albert Einstein

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

- Henry Ford
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