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BOB240 SparkPoints: (6,131)
Fitness Minutes: (1,285)
Posts: 359
10/20/12 11:24 A

Passing an eye over Kylers programme...

It looks fine. Small muscles get more reps (good for lactic tolerance not necessarily strength but it's what you need). I like the deadlifts. I am more fond of a few more squats. i.e 5x5. Simply to protect knees against injury in combat..

Seems to hit most parts.

Have a plan for failing weight (usually deload 5%) You might need to recover a bit more between sessions for max strength.

Weighted dips I have a prejudice against... It's the thing that tends to come back on you 20 years down the line - don't push the weight on this...

Edited by: BOB240 at: 10/20/2012 (11:27)
BOB240 SparkPoints: (6,131)
Fitness Minutes: (1,285)
Posts: 359
10/20/12 11:17 A

5x5, incremental overload routines have their origins in the 1960's. Although there are slight variations for building strength (not bulk) there is a lot of research on them and they are quite optimum for the majority of people.

If 5x4 routines were optimum then people would do them to build strength.

I would point out that 5x5 is usually focused on core movements (squats, deads, bench, power cleans). This really is where everyone should start if they want to increase their strength. There is very little point in doing isolation exercises like bicep curls or situps unless you can deadlift your own weight or do 8 full length pullups.

Some trainers will encourage you to do bicep curls because it seems like strength training and it's easy to exhaust those muscles through lactic buildup. This results in looking and feeling "pumped" and soreness the day after, therefore it must be effective. Actually it isn't.

MPLANE37 SparkPoints: (78,132)
Fitness Minutes: (74,329)
Posts: 2,170
10/20/12 5:22 A

5x5 is good for developing more strength and a little stamina. If you do 2x5, you don't develop sufficient endurance in a multitude of muscles in a full body exercise like squats. May be for isolation exercises it is enough to have 2 sets, but for full body exercises, one has to go inevitably more sets and less reps. If you use a larger number of reps, then you develop more endurance and less strength. So there is always this trade off between strength and endurance, it is hard to get both.

For endurance muscles though, I suspect that a larger number of reps at any given weight may result in more gains.

Edited by: MPLANE37 at: 10/20/2012 (05:30)
JADOMB SparkPoints: (134,622)
Fitness Minutes: (68,349)
Posts: 1,708
10/19/12 10:06 P

In my younger years I did the 10x3 and it worked great for me. Now I am only doing 10x2 and it is doing much better than I thought it would. Science has come along way in explaining it. So right now I am trying to cover more areas instead of just blowing out a few areas. I feel very healthy doing it this way. I may play around with doing lower reps and possibly bump up my sets to 3.

Since you are so young, you can play around with it too and find out how things work for you. Checking out more actual weight lifting sites and picking up some books might also help. You also may be able to find a good personal trainer that can help you get into a good plan.

You've done so well to this point, whatever you choose to do, I'm sure you will do it well.

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,234)
Fitness Minutes: (23,806)
Posts: 1,053
10/19/12 9:48 P

Alright. And I do do a little warm up most of the time. Just 2-3 times with the base weight (bar and however many 45s) to make sure the motion feels right and I don't have any hidden little injuries from jiu jitsu the night before. Then I'll add the weight to that to bring me to where I'll do the 3x5 with. So I guess for squat I would warm up with 225, and then actually rep 275. I can keep it in mind to do that every time

TACDGB Posts: 6,136
10/19/12 9:41 P

I am a weight lifter too. So I can tell you this. Warming up is important and stretching when you are done is important too. With weight lifting you have to eat a lot of protein. 1 gram per pound you weigh. I try and eat 117 grams a day. can help you with some of this.

UNIDENT Posts: 33,498
10/19/12 3:36 P

5x5 would be a waste of your time.

You get something like 80% of the total benefit from the first set, 15% from the second, and only 5% from the third. If you do 4th and 5th sets, you're not getting any real benefit from them.

You don't mention warming up - do you do a half weight 4-5 lift warmup set? You should start and kill your third set if you're not. Warming up is essential, and two heavy lifting sets will give you all the benefit you need, especially at the reps you're already doing.

MPLANE37 SparkPoints: (78,132)
Fitness Minutes: (74,329)
Posts: 2,170
10/19/12 2:44 P

I have been doing 5x5 of squats, but recently had some problem in my neck due to high barbell position, so I decided to go low barbell. But this position requires quite a bit of flexibility of the shoulders, so I had to try several times with relatively lower weights and thus I did many more reps than 5x5.

The surprise is that I am sore all over my legs due to practicing lower barbell position with lower weights and higher reps, sort of unintentionally.

The other surprise is that my shoulders are sore due to the tension created in the low barbell position, although I did not use those muscles to lift any weight.

So I suspect that leg and core muscles somehow must get higher reps to keep growing, rather than heavier. So I think your squats don't have enough sets and reps either (nor do mine, for that matter).

Edited by: MPLANE37 at: 10/19/2012 (14:45)
JENMC14 Posts: 2,786
10/19/12 1:49 P

I can't really comment on your lifting plan, but the thing is, if you want to gain muscle, you have to eat at a surplus, and that will come with some fat gain. It's just a fact of life. If you just eat at maintenance and lift, with all the cardio you do, you may gain strength, but you won't likely gain a lot of mass. If you want to do a recomp, I'd suggest doing some Googling, I believe it is a very, very slow and tedious process, and since you've already lost so much weight, I'm not sure exactly how it would work for you. I'd highly suggest visiting I think my husband gets some of his training ideas from Testosterone Nation ( as well. I've found to be helpful for finding exercises to do, but haven't read a ton there, it might be another good resource.

KYLAR_STERN SparkPoints: (22,234)
Fitness Minutes: (23,806)
Posts: 1,053
10/19/12 1:35 P

Wondering if i could get some feedback. I think my lifting plan looks good, but could always use a critique from a knowledgeable person. I've gone from 215 pounds to 155 in the last 9 months and would like to put some muscle back on that I lost. Pound for pound, I'm so much stronger and in better shape, but getting my lifts back to where they where on this leaner frame would be nice. (Also, I'm 21 years old and have visible abs for the first time in my life. I'd like to not lose these so I'm looking for a lean gain, not a bulk. Sorry, I'm naturally a bit shallow I guess)

I lift Tues, Thurs, and Sat. Mon-Fri nights I have Bjj for about 1 1/2 -2 hours. This is about an hour of simple drilling and learning new techniques, and then the rest is sparring where it would actually count as cardio.

Lift A
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x5

Lateral shoulder raise or shrugs 3x7
Barbell bicep curls 3x7
Skull crushers 3x7

Lift B
deadlift/clean 5x3 (I rotate these with squats on a three day set)
Overhead press 3x5
Pullups 3x10

Chest flys 3x7
Weighted dips 3x7
Calf extensions 3x10

So I do basically these alternating on my lifting days. As I said, my squat/deadlift/clean is a 3 day instead of two. My legs just never seem to heal if I try to squat and dead or clean on the same day. I do the main compound lifts heavy enough so that I fail on the 4th or 5th rep of 3rd set. Then I like doing the supplemental stuff with the extra time in the gym. Those aren't always the same each week, but I hit basically those muscle groups. Does this look about right? Been thinking about switching to 5x5 for the main lifts.

Again, I know spark isn't the best for strength advice, but the tools here where so great in my losing the weight I figure I can stick around as I keep going with the now healthy life and non-fatty me.

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