Author: Sorting Last Post on Top Message:
SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (244,271)
Fitness Minutes: (41,124)
Posts: 26,632
3/11/13 4:17 A

I know what you mean about the analyzing, because I am a very analytical person - with EVERYTHING - LOL! It is part of my Obsessive Personality Trait :-)

I have back issues too. I have arthritis in my lower spine, and hips, and also scoliosis, so really know the limitations of exercises. Up until about 18 months ago when my husband started his numerous emergency trips to hospital for various serious health issues, I used to go weekly to a Mat Pilates Class taken by a qualified, practicing Physiotherapist who is also a qualified Pilates Instructor. The class was only small. She had seen my reports so was able to steer me away from exercises that would do harm, and give me alternatives. This really helped to strengthen those muscles which helped to reduce the pain. I ended up just getting walks in by putting my groceries and laundry away one at a time. It worked well, because there is no uneven ground for jolting/jarring of my spine and hips; I don't have to worry about weather conditions or pollens which aggravate my asthma considerably, and if I get tired or pain sets in, I didn't have to walk anywhere to sit because I am already there. Also, I can do it while "watching/listening" to TV. The other plus is it doesn't seem like work, but it also doesn't seem like exercise. That is a win/win situation - especially when laziness would otherwise have ruled (and for me that is a lot - LOL)


JSCWONDER SparkPoints: (223)
Fitness Minutes: (0)
Posts: 17
3/10/13 5:34 P

Kris: yeah, I tend to analyse a lot, looks good on resumes (ooh, he's analytical) but is sometimes useless outside the workplace. :p I will utterly confuse my fruit vendor with Feijoas questions on my next trip.

Anarie: yeah, I've been seeing docs regularly, due to lower back issues. Vit d and vit b levels are the only findings they have had. I've located a place that does the bone scan, might be worth a talk with the doc next time. I used to do basic resistance / light weights regularly but haven't done it since having a discectomy (l5-s1). It's only stretches and walking now (when I'm not being lazy).

ANARIE Posts: 13,179
3/9/13 5:14 P

Are you seeing a doctor regularly? I think maybe you might want to ask for a referral to a dietitian or nutritional counselor. At 6'1" and under 70kg, you're right on the edge of being clinically underweight. If you think you have excess belly fat, it would be a very good idea to get a medical professional to evaluate whether you really do, or whether there's a body image issue or a touch of orthorexia going on. Men are not immune to eating disorders, and if you're eating less than 1200 calories on a regular basis, that's cause for medical concern. If you tell your doctor what your eating habits are, s/he can definitely justify ordering a full-body bone scan to check for osteoporosis, and those scans also give body fat percentage. You can kill two birds with one stone by finding out whether the extreme calorie restriction is doing any harm and at the same time finding out whether you really do have any excess body fat to worry about.

If you can't or don't want to do any of that, at least consider resistance/weight training. That's a way to strengthen both your bones and your muscles, and building muscle and bone reduces body fat percentage. Ideally you will gain a little weight, but that weight will be primarily lean tissue.

SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (244,271)
Fitness Minutes: (41,124)
Posts: 26,632
3/9/13 4:39 P

I am wondering if part of your issue is that you tend to analyze a little too much which causes avoidance in a way. (noting the exception to sweet stuff - LOL) Anyway, I would pay credence to Dietitian Becky's posts with regards to safety etc.

Sometimes people confuse 'belly fat' and think that they need to lose some weight, but often it is lack of toned muscles which is different. Also, it isn't unhealthy to have a slightly rounded tummy.

Perhaps it would be an idea for you to go to a gym and ask them to do the 9 caliper skin fold test to see what your body fat percentage is. Given the calories you consume, I would struggle to think that it was fat.

Learning new healthy habits, such as eating regular meals, and learning to enjoy a variety of new foods (and yes you CAN learn that) would be an absolute ideal goal for you.

With my guava concoction, I don't normally use cow's milk because I have an intolerance to it, but I can have a little on occasion without problems. It is normally more Soy Milk I add. My guava trees won't be too far off giving me another really good supply because they are LOADED :-) I do the same with Feijoas (I think they are also called Pineapple Guavas, but they are totally different from guava) but last year altho' the fruit was huge, there wasn't a lot on my trees and I was gobbling them up fresh - yummmm. Often for the smoothie I add Feijoa to the fruit mix.


JSCWONDER SparkPoints: (223)
Fitness Minutes: (0)
Posts: 17
3/9/13 3:48 P

Kris: lucky you to have your own supply. I guess a make and freeze approach would be good for me.
Brittturtle: thanks for your feedback
Anarie: not small, not big, I'm an average guy at 6'1". Ive been in this weight range +- 5 kg since i was 20 (im in my early thirties). I've always been a fussy and odd eater; except for sweet things. My goals are really to eat healthier and more consistently and to lose / not develop a belly.
Belly: The weight number itself is not my primary concern but I guess having a FLAT stomach would mean losing a few kg. I've read somewhere that belly fat is a leading indicator for type 2 in men and that's got me worried recently. I have a desk job and sedentary lifestyle, which seem to increase the risk too.
Eat consistently means that I have more than a meal a day (yes, that was something I did, just water and a sandwich in the evening). On theother hand I have a large appetite if the food is appealing and I'm in the mood to eat.
Eat healthier means reduction of sweets and desserts and junk food and more veggies fruits and self prepared stuff.
Thanks for your feedback about the drinks; yeah i guess there is still a lot we dont know about nutrients and chemical interactions in the body (e.g. Flax seed, which I read about today and came away highly confused).

ANARIE Posts: 13,179
3/8/13 9:29 P

I think I'm a little confused as to what your goals are. Why are you eating so few calories? You're eating too little for a tiny woman, and about half of what most men need. Is it an appetite problem? Unless you're unusually small for a man, at 70 kilos/154 pounds, you can't be very overweight, if at all. Are you trying to gain weight, lose weight, or just maintain at a healthy weight?

Either way, if you want more nutrients, the most logical way to get them is simply to eat more food. Drinking two glasses of milk is healthier than drinking one glass with flavored powder added. (Although dry milk powder would be the best option of the ones you mentioned, since it's essentially real milk with the water taken out.) Recent research is finding that nutritional supplements often do not have the same health effects as eating foods with those nutrients in them-- it looks as if there's something about the combination of nutrients in foods that is somehow more effective than any of those nutrients in isolation. There may be elements in food that we don't even know about that are necessary to make the vitamins and phytonutrients work right.

Most of the products you mentioned are frankly just sugary flavorings, not "dangerous" but not helpful, either. A few, like Ensure, are meant to keep people going when they can't eat enough real food. They were designed for hospitals to give to the elderly or people with massive injuries who need huge amounts of calories for healing. They're not a long-term solution and they're not the best option for healthy people. Food is the best choice for anyone strong enough to eat it.

3/8/13 5:54 P

You're better off not drinking them. They're heavily processed and high in sugar. Sugar becomes fat.

SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (244,271)
Fitness Minutes: (41,124)
Posts: 26,632
3/8/13 2:34 P

The mix can last a couple days in the fridge, but you can also freeze it. I have a few guava trees so I manage to freeze TONS of them so that they last throughout the year :-)

IF you want to share your tracker you will need to create a SparkPage and have it set to 'open' so that other members can access it. Actually, it is really fun and helpful having one because you get loads more support from the members, and can make lots of friends that way, too! That is always really nice ;-]

JSCWONDER SparkPoints: (223)
Fitness Minutes: (0)
Posts: 17
3/8/13 10:47 A

Kris: btw, apart from the nutrients, your concoction sounds really delish! I was seeing guavas till a couple of weeks ago, but they disappeared on my last trip to the market. They are definitely seasonal. Can these mixes last for a couple of days in the fridge? Or are these same day consumption types?

Becky: I didn't know one could make things public or private, lol. Ranges are:
Calories 1500 -1900
Carbs 174 -309
Fats 34 - 74
Proteins 75 - 166
I weighed about 70 kg when I made the account, I think I've lost a couple of kg since.
Cancer; a couple of my close relatives, but not my parents or grandparents.

:) the veg proteins is what I've been trying. So I have dishes based on black eyed peas, peanuts and almonds, milk, cottage cheese quite regularly. The chart says that I get proteins in the mid 30s range on average. It has gone up to 68 as well but that's probably on a chicken or egg day. I also eat a beef burger (big mac) once a week but have never tracked its nutrients.

Hey, I'd like to thank all of you (this post, previous posts) again, it's really nice that you take time out of your day to respond to people and help them.

3/8/13 7:40 A

Assuming you do not have a history of cancer or thyroid problems---there is "no" concern with men using soy based products. If you like soy foods---use them for they can boost your protein intake.

Since your nutrition tracker is not public, it is hard to give more specific advice. I am wondering what your SP protein range is and your average daily intake.

If you are not a big meat eater---then you should be applying vegetarian principles to your meal planning to get adequate protein. This would include the usage of milk, cheese, yogurt, soy foods, nuts, seeds, peanuts, beans, eggs, whole grains, etc. Check out the vegetarian recipes here at SP. Check out a vegetarian cook book at your local library.

And yes...a scoop of protein powder or dried powdered milk can boost protein intake as well. But learning how to use foods in a more whole state is also important.

SP Dietitian Becky

SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (244,271)
Fitness Minutes: (41,124)
Posts: 26,632
3/8/13 6:11 A

The soy in these are perfectly safe for men and women to use. I remember when the fuss about the soy came out, but it was very quickly discounted by scientists who DON'T have an investment in soy companies. The research has definitely been done. For those not getting a balanced diet, Fortisip and Ensure are excellent products.

I make a fruit smoothie using guavas, a little banana, yoghurt and milk, and add milk powder and oat bran to it. Not only is it yummy, but is quite good in the protein and fibre department.

Below is a break-down from my Nutrition Tracker:

Oat Bran, 7 gram(s)
Milk - TRIM, 1 cup
Guavas - Fresh Edible Portion, 116 gram
Instant Skim Milk Powder, 7 gram(s)
Yoplait Yoghurt 50 gram(s)
Banana, fresh, 99 grams
Soy Milk Lite - Pam's,
0.5 cup
Meal Totals: Calories 430; Fat 6; Carbohydrates 72; Protein 27; Fiber, total dietary 10

I don't know if you can get guavas where you are, but if you can't there will be other fruit that has a reasonable protein level.

That made enough for me to split it into 2 snacks - one for this a.m. and one for this a/noon. It would help you get your calories up, too!


Edited by: SLIMMERKIWI at: 3/8/2013 (06:17)
JSCWONDER SparkPoints: (223)
Fitness Minutes: (0)
Posts: 17
3/8/13 5:49 A

Thanks for your replies: Cmcole, Dragonchilde, Jenstress, Kris and Becky.

Cmcole: I considered adding powedered milk to whole milk to get more protein out of the same volume of milk. For the other nutrition powders it was because they provided a whole bunch of other nutrients which could be added to the same volume of milk.

Yeah, I guess protein powders could be another option; are they generally considered as safe as (or safe in the absence of contrary informaiton as) nutrition drink powders?

Dragonchilde: Im personally not diabetic; but my family (both sides) has tendencies with it and with arthritis among other things. The fear of developing type 2 is behind my new interest in analyzing what Im eating.

Jenstress: Yeah, im a guy, thanks for the heads up about Ensure/Soy. Im new to all this nutrition stuff so I didnt know; I will read up about Soy and Ensure.

Kris: I dont get enough protein based on the calculators; its easy to meet my carb and fat requirement but since I dont eat meat everyday (never have) my protein intake is lower than what the calc recommends. Im actually a very very poor and weird/fussy eater (always have been); recently Ive been trying to eat regular meals which balance out daily nutrition requirements.

Becky: Thanks for the detailed breakdown :)
I seem to get 900-1200 calories when I track everything I eat (except for two half cups of tea with whitener without sugar). Im supposed to be taking in 1500 or so; but I dont feel low on energy or anything; so its mainly for trying to minimize the protein deficit and some vitamin / mineral deficits.

3/7/13 8:35 P

Bottom Line: ALL these products are safe to consume.
However, they have different purposes....

Some are just for flavor/sweetness purposes. (complan, milo)

Some flavor and sweeten and are supplemented with about 10% of some vitamins/minerals. Which is really not necessary for folks eating a healthy diet and for folks using other fortified foods or taking a multivitamin-mineral supplement. (Ovaltine)

Some are formulated to boost calorie, carb, fat, protein and vitamin-mineral intake for a person who may not be eating well OR for a person using it as a meal replacment (Ensure)

But like I said...they are all safe to use on a daily basis---for both women and men.

It really comes down to what you are looking for:

something to flavor your milk?
Boost calories?
meal replacement?

and yes---dry powdered milk can easily be added to regular milk to boost protein intake. I have hospital patients do this all the time. (less expensive than some of the purchased products)

SP Registered Dietitian Becky

SLIMMERKIWI SparkPoints: (244,271)
Fitness Minutes: (41,124)
Posts: 26,632
3/7/13 4:08 P

They are fine - they are even prescribed by health professionals including Dietitians, for regular use when there are needs such as ill health, very poor appetite, etc. It is also fine to add milk powder to the milk, but out of interest's sake, why? Are you not getting enough protein/calcium in your diet? If you are, then I don't see that there would really be any benefits to doing it, other than you enjoy it. For most people, if they consume a well rounded diet that includes plenty of fruit/veges, using the rainbow of colour, on a daily basis; get quality protein from lean meat/fish/chicken/turkey, and get in healthy fats, then I don't see that there would really be any need for the supplements. You COULD save yourself a bucket-load of money.


JENSTRESS Posts: 5,403
3/7/13 9:40 A

Be careful with some of them. Ensure and such have soy protein. If you are a female, that isn't too bad, but if you are a male, studies have shown that consuming a soy protein every day and lower your testosterone and cause many issues.

DRAGONCHILDE SparkPoints: (61,289)
Fitness Minutes: (15,545)
Posts: 9,713
3/7/13 9:24 A

They're fine. Dietician Becky has stated they're perfectly acceptable. There's differing opinions on whether or not they're safe or going to give you cancer, or make you obese, or whatever, but the truth is, there is no single answer to that question, and it's not easy to really make a call. There's a lot of "facts" out there, and not a lot of way to distinguish.

Because of this, I go for the science. There isn't a lot of science that points to these things being harmful, so I stick with that for now. :)

If you're sugar-sensitive, that might be an issue; personally, I'm not, and I really don't worry about my sugar intake.

CMCOLE Posts: 2,667
3/7/13 9:04 A

whether they are a "safe" item probably would be based on who you ask.

My preference would be to create my own drink, if that's how I wished to get my calories.

A2 - powdered milk is probably OK to add to your beverages. I'm not quite sure WHY you'd add it to your regular milk, but that's your choice.

Seems like you're going about things rather oddly, but that's my personal opinion, I guess.
Lots of people add things to milk, and make a smoothie. If all you're concerned about is that; then get some really good protein powder and add it, rather than purchase vast quantities of pre-bottled mixtures.

JSCWONDER SparkPoints: (223)
Fitness Minutes: (0)
Posts: 17
3/7/13 3:59 A

First question: Would like opinions or links to factual opinions on whether drinks like Complan, Ovaltine, Milo, Ensure and Horlicks can be consumed on a daily basis.

I am ok with fitting the calories/carbs they contain into my daily allowance, so that is not my concern.

Im concerned about whether it is safe to have these products (with whole or low-fat milk) everyday, because they are synthetic and have a sugar component (as opposed to complex carbs).

Why I would like to do it is becuase I do have a cup of milk regularly, adding one of these to that cup would boost the nutritional value of that milk, and that is protein + the various vitamins and minerals that these drinks contain in their makeup.

Second question: has anyone ever heard of or tried adding powdered milk to a regular cup of milk. Seems like that would theoretically double or enhance the nutrient value of that cup too.

Thanks in advance

Page: 1 of (1)  

Other Diet and Nutrition Topics:

Topics: Last Post:
Nutricion 2/17/2017 11:49:29 AM
Calorie requirements going up?? 12/17/2016 1:18:48 PM
Grocery Shopping for one 11/18/2016 12:45:53 AM
Sugar Substitutes 5/8/2016 2:02:32 PM
Best way to manage calories? 5/12/2016 6:54:42 PM