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VEG954 Posts: 7,436
7/19/14 8:33 P

Day 3 on KETO diet. Looking forward to seeing the results.

JELYHA SparkPoints: (11,446)
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4/2/14 1:55 P

I wanted to come back and add that there aren't any contraindications for a ketogenic diet for someone trying to lose weight.

JELYHA SparkPoints: (11,446)
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4/2/14 9:59 A

I agree with everything you are saying Russell! Keep up the great work that you are doing sharing the knowledge that you have and being an inspiration to others as you strive for better health.

RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
4/2/14 9:35 A

Jelhya. I find that to be true myself. I think obesity, as well as diabetes are caused by our diet, and can be fixed by it too. Current thinking though is that obesity happens, and the big 3 derive from us being obese. We never consider that the recommended diet might be the cause of BOTH the obesity, AND the big 3 increases.

Being that we ( you and I )have done more damage, or were born with health concerns though, we need to be stricter than a healthy person. I personally think that if more people paid attention to types, and amount of carbohydrates from birth, no one would ever need to do something as drastic as a ketogenic diet, except if they were a Type 1 diabetic like yourself. Most of us diabetics are Type 2 though, and I think this is completely avoidable, and that Type 2 diabetes could be eradicated with dietary changes in our national diet. What we are currently doing is eating a diet that causes 70% to be overweight, and diabetes, cancer, and heart disease are just the next step after obesity.

So if we had a national guideline to eat 150 grams a day, and less grains, more vegetables, and the occasional low glycemic fruit, such as berries, no one would ever get so out of shape that they would ever need to make a drastic correction, such as very low carb, ketogenic diets. We are trying to undo decades of poor eating, by doing extreme diets. Why don't we try to stop doing the decades of poor eating?

I think over the next few decades, we are going to have to define what poor eating is.. are grains good, or do they cause cravings?, Is 250 grams a day good enough ( carbs ), or should it be lower?, say 150 grams a day. The damage is worse because people are not even following the guidelines to stick to 250 grams a day ( example ), or eat the foods recommended.

However, we never asks the simple question.. What if the foods that we are told to eat, are the very reason why we overeat? By avoiding the overeating, we could avoid the Type 2 diabetes, and the need for ketogenic diets for most people.

JELYHA SparkPoints: (11,446)
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4/1/14 2:43 P

I eat around 25 carbs a day, but that is because I am a type 1 diabetic. I also carefully eat a certain amount of protein. I don't know weather or not my body is in ketosis and I don't care, I eat this way so that I can control my blood sugars. The only way I can do that is to eat slow acting carbohydrate in small amounts.

Obesity and diabetes are very closely related and can be treated as such.

RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
4/1/14 1:47 P

I am seeing this ketogenic diet phase now, and finding that most people don't realize it is just very low carb, as in Atkins first 2 weeks, but some are thinking of it as a permanent diet, which is possible, but not probable.

If you are the average 250 gram a day person, and think you should start a 25 gram a day ketogenic diet, that leaves a lot of space 25-250 grams that you could strike a balance in. I think that doing a regular low carb plan, and seeing how many, and what types of carbs you can fit into your menu is a much better plan.

The diet picks the person, not the other way around. I do 50 NET carbs because of my health concerns, not because I chose that level. Most people can thrive on higher carb levels, and only need to go lower to break addiction/trigger foods etc. Then they can make rational decisions, and become healthier. The goal is the highest carb level you can eat, while still reaching a healthy weight, not the lowest level of carbs. If I could eat macaroni and cheese and banana splits every day, I would. At the start, I avoided these foods because they weren't allowed, but I still craved them. Now, I don't crave them. I know I would like them if I ate them. Low carb allows me to make the decision NOT to eat them. Before low carb, I knew they were bad for me, because I binged and ate them by the bucket, and I couldn't control my intake/calories. I still couldn't stop myself from eating them. Same with pop. I had 400 blood sugars, but drank Pepsi ( regular ) daily, and couldn't stop myself.

All low carb did, was give me control back. What you do after you regain control, is determine through trial and error how many carbs, and what types of carbs you can consume without cravings returning, or gaining weight. This is 60-70 grams a day for me, but may be 170 grams for you. So just plan the start, and let how fast you lose dictate how much you increase your carbs. Don't have any number in mind, just let the results dictate where you top out at. You may be pleasantly surprised to find you can eat a lot more carbs than you would have planned, especially if you are making better carb choices.

Plus you will enjoy low carb a lot more with lots of veggies, some fruit, cheeses, and nuts. If you love the food you are eating, you will stick with it.. so pick low carb foods you enjoy, and then over time add more. That way you will stick with it. Better to stick to 100 grams a day for the next 10 years, than 25 grams a day for the next 10 weeks.

So enjoy emoticon and I hope you see emoticon results soon!

NAYPOOIE Posts: 8,839
4/1/14 1:41 P

There are a lot of veggies out there. Have you ever tried jicama? It's crisp and slightly sweet tasting, and I enjoy it instead of an apple. Cabbage, lightly cooked is also remarkably sweet.

And while I've never tried it myself, I've heard that roasting veggies gives them a whole different taste.

EELPIE Posts: 2,700
4/1/14 9:38 A

"so I'm not going to set myself up for failure."

That is the best and smartest approach to have!

There is nothing wrong with adapting a plan to make it work for you. Everyone is so different, not every plan can be followed to the T.

I do a form of low carb (slow carb), but even on that plan, I had to make it work for me (they do no apples or popcorn, both foods I love...the one day go nuts day, I just can't with that).

CJGODESS101 SparkPoints: (30,781)
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4/1/14 9:28 A

Thanks Russell you explained everything so well. I'm thinking, I will need to do more of Atkin's approach. I'll start by cutting down on carbs, but let's face it, I hate veggies, but I do eat fruit. I will talk my baby steps to decrease carbs and increase my veggies and work from there. I know I will not be able to make it on 30 g of carbs, so I'm not going to set myself up for failure.

MISSSVJS SparkPoints: (28,979)
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3/31/14 12:49 P

Hopefully Russell will see your question - he is the most knowledgeable person on these boards about ketogenic diet that I know of. I am currently working on a keto diet - not sure I've ever actually gotten there, but I don't find it restrictive at all. What I love about it is that my cravings are gone and I'm not hungry all the time like I was before when I was still eating gluten, grains and dairy. I'm loving it and I am finally losing a bit of weight - I don't need to lose much so it's going slowly, but I'm down a good 6 pounds in a month and I'm probably eating around 2000 calories a day with the bulk of my calories coming from good healthy fats (I aim for 180-200 grams of fat a day, 75-80 grams of protein a day and 30-35 grams of carbs per day). Everyone is different, but this is most definitely working for me.

RUSSELL_40 Posts: 16,826
3/31/14 12:47 P

The " modified ATKINS diet" that the previous poster alluded to was designed by the cardiologist Dr. Robert Atkins for HEART health, I agree, but rapid weight loss and lack of hunger are what most people have experienced on the diet, and what most people use the diet for. The ketogenic phase of the diet is very short.

Unfortunately, I am one of the people who follow it for BOTH reasons. I was diagnosed with CHF at 27 years old, and was 361 lbs. Over the past 5 years, I have lost almost 1/2 my body weight, and improved my health. I have stopped taking cholesterol and diabetes meds, and both are still maintained by my diet, and I take 1/4th of my BP/heart pills, and my heart is 3X stronger today than in 2002.

I am in phase 3 ( pre-maintenance ), and eat 50 NET carbs, and may find at maintenance that I am no longer in ketosis, since ATKINS varies in how low in carbs you must stay by person. Many people lose weight eating over 100 carbs a day.

Just so you know how restrictive Atkins is, I am eating a can of peas, and a can of tomatoes today, and ate 1 cup of fresh mushrooms with my eggs this morning. My tracker is open for everyone to see. This " restrictive diet " lets me eat 2250 calories, and still lose weight, while never experiencing hunger. In fact some days, I have to split meals into smaller portions, because I am so full, and eat lunch, and dinner over 4 meals instead of 2.

I find every " expert " on the Atkins diet, who says it is restrictive, has either NEVER done the diet, or done it temporarily, at the strictest level, and failed to stick to the diet. If they had made it through Induction, they would have started adding back in lots of vegetables, nuts, cheeses, and fruits, starting with berries. By now they might be enjoying sweet potatoes, and be eating 120 grams of carbs a day, while avoiding the trigger foods that made them obese, but despite not actually having stuck to Atkins, therefore never actually being on anything but Induction, they suddenly know it is " restrictive ". The other option is that they are just saying it is restrictive, because they heard it was.

Think about your first diet. It was also restrictive, but we don't use that word. You had to cut calories, or restrict them.Was it fun? Of course not. You either cut down on certain foods, like ice cream ( restriction ), or cut 500 calories ( restriction ). Simply cutting trans fats, is a restriction ( smart one ). If someone decided to start a calorie cutting diet, I wouldn't say it was restrictive, because that would be like saying that nightime in the country was dark. That is why we call it nighttime. Diet is restriction. Varying levels to be sure, but all diets have restriction. Not having any restrictions is what causes obesity. By making change, you cause change. By remaining the same, you cause yourself to remain the same.

Ketogenic just means that you are burning fat, and the resulting byproduct is ketones. This process is called ketosis/lipolysis. Lipolysis means " dissolving fat ". That is what you are doing. Once glucose is used up ( #1 source of glucose is carbs ), and glycogen too ( stored glucose in muscles ).. the body starts burning fat. It breaks down the cell, and you use the ketones for fuel instead of glucose. It is a simple manipulation of diet, and if done very restrictively, can cause rapid weight loss, and you can control weight loss by how low in carbs you go.

Based on how fast you lose weight on the first phase of Atkins ( 20 NET carbs ), you can raise carbs after the initial 2 weeks. If you lose 14 lbs., you can jump carbs up faster than if you only lose 5 obviously. The other factor is weight loss to lose. If you have 20 lbs. to lose, you may be okay losing 1 lb. a week. If you have 150 lbs. to lose, you may want to stay at 3 lbs. a week for now.

I would suggest that you read Atkins book, which you can find at most libraries. Those acceptable foods are your base, and then you can add things like cheese, berries, and higher glycemic veggies like peas over time.

Following Atkins, you may move away from a ketogenic diet, and still enjoy weight loss. They are not ONE diet. Ketogenic just means that carbs are low enough to cause you to be in ketosis. Most people on Atkins are not in ketosis after the first few months. I am eating 66 grams today, and 17 of those grams are fiber. I am on the border of ketosis. You can slip in and out of ketosis based on one meal, or the lack of carbs at one meal. You won't even know it, unless you start to feel cravings.

On a personal note, I only stay so low carb on Atkins, due to being diabetic. I could eat more and still lose weight, but I don't want to have high blood sugars.

So you can do a ketogenic diet, which just means most likely you need to stick to under 30 grams a day ( to be deep into ketosis ). Depending on why you are in ketosis, if you improve that problem, you can then move on up the carb ladder. I eat 8-12 servings of fruit/veggies a day, as well as a serving of nuts, and occasionally cheese. I have some other health restrictions limiting my greens, but you could basically eat greens till you choked without any harm, and there are so many options.

If you start exploring the various fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, and cheeses, you won't have time to know you are on a " restricted " diet, because you will be enjoying a selection of food that is many times greater than what you ate on a " normal " diet.

If reading a book sounds boring, or too time consuming, Google Atkins, and go to their site, but just remember that other than the " acceptable foods list " for a base, Atkins is not the same as a ketogenic diet, except at the lower levels.

So try out the ketogenic diet, but unless you need to lose weight rapidly, or have a health issue, I would just do Atkins, or some other low carb plan, and slowly add back in carbs over time. You may find that 80 grams a day is fine, even though you won't be in ketosis. We all vary. There are many people who do well between 100-150 grams a day. If you can maintain a healthy weight, without cravings, the level that you want is .. as much as possible, right?

The reason I suggest Atkins, other than I did it ( poor ), is that it has a ketogenic phase ( good reason ), and a list of what to eat ( better reason ). This phase is like a safe place you can return to if you get lost, and start gaining back weight. If you do not add back in any trigger foods however, you will be using this ketogenic phase as a base, and like Legos, will be building your diet upon this base, piece by piece. Atkins was just the first to read about low carb, and put his name on it, so you will just be following low carb. Same with Paleo. Don't think that Atkins invented low carb, or that Paleo man ate exactly what is suggested on that diet. Just think of them all as low carb, and follow the basic principles of any that you wish to do, and if you wish to remain in a ketogenic state, just keep really low in carbs.

Read up, pick a plan, and give it 2 weeks. Then make a decision based on how you feel.

PBAILEY06 SparkPoints: (36,969)
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3/31/14 11:43 A

The ketogenic diet is a highly restrictive diet designed to put a person into a ketogenic state to help with seizure control. There is also a "modified atkins diet" that is used for the same purpose. Neither of these were designed for weight loss.

IXCACAO SparkPoints: (11,237)
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3/31/14 11:34 A

Is it the ketogenic diet? This site seems to use the terms interchangeably.

CJGODESS101 SparkPoints: (30,781)
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3/31/14 11:25 A

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for some help on the Keto Diet. My husband recommended I check it out, however I haven't found much information on it. He sent me a link to reddit, which is definitely not the source I want. Does anyone have experience with it, pros and cons? Also, does anyone have a good link for it, where I can do some proper research?

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