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KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
9/16/13 6:12 A

1892
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

First re-write
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and [to] the republic for which it stands[:] one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

1923
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag [of the United States,] and to the republic for which it stands; one [N]ation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

WWII era
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States [of America,] and to the republic for which it stands; one Nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

Cold War Era
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one Nation [under God,] indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
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As for the playing of the national anthem I mis-spoke when I may have indicated that this was "new", sorry, it was my observation of the past several years in the rural community where I work where patriotism is supposedly high.

ANARIE Posts: 12,436
9/16/13 1:25 A

Anybody who thinks this is somehow new and a sign of disrespect from "this generation" or "kids these days" needs to pull up some videos of sporting events in the 70s, 80s, and/or 90s. There have always been people without manners. Educating kids is great; most of them will do what they're expected to do as long as someone tells them it's expected. But I get really sick of people complaining about young people as if the new generation were worse than their own. In particular, those of us who were coming of age in the 80s have NO room to talk.

As for the "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, that's another case where people need to study some US history. Those words were added BY McCARTHY SYMPATHIZERS in 1954. They need to come out; they're a shameful reminder of a disgusting period in history. I wouldn't object so much if they had been part of the Pledge from the beginning, but if I had a child, I definitely would not want him/her to be pressured into reciting a pledge that has been desecrated by fascists. Removing those words would restore the Pledge to what it was originally meant to be.

ANDILH Posts: 1,213
9/15/13 8:15 P

Just a couple thoughts on this...there are some events where people are told to rise and take off their hats for the anthem. Primarily Nascar that I can think of right now, but I know that I've heard it at others. I can actually hear the announcer in my head (a family member loves Nascar so it's on fairly often).
Another reason I believe that there is less respect shown for the anthem is the absolute horrific versions that are sung at professional sporting events or just about any other events. We've all heard them. They are terrible and make a mockery of what the song is supposed to be about. I marched in high school and then in a drum corps and attended lots of events where we played the anthem. I marched mostly before 9/11 and remember few people really paying attention while we played the anthem, so in my opinion this isn't a totally new phenomenon. I am all for creative expression, but it's hard to take a song seriously when so many performers show such little respect while performing it.
Most of today's teenagers were very young when 9/11 happened and followed the lead of the adults around them in being patriotic. Now as time has gone on and adults are also less patriotic, the kids won't be either.

SUNSET09 SparkPoints: (195,838)
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9/15/13 9:07 A

We lack in so many areas and I am proud to give the respect that's due to the flag when and wherever I may be. I teach my daughter and grandson to honor the same. WE suffer due to lack of knowledge! emoticon emoticon

ONELITTLEPILL SparkPoints: (30,234)
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9/15/13 7:25 A

Wow. Loved reading the comments here. This is something near-and-dear to my heart, and it drives me crazy to see the disrespect out there. I am going to get on board with this as well. Going to talk with my girls' District Administrator (who is a friend) and see how we can start getting some announcements made at the games, and also some educational things for the kids. It's time to bring the respect back!

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
9/15/13 6:30 A

This past Friday was an away football game for us and I noticed that there weren't so many people talking BUT, the band was father away that usual during the playing of the anthem so maybe I just couldn't hear them and the concession stand is far behind the bleachers.

I also found out that the next time the district newsletter is published isn't until the second week of October.

MATTHEW0498 SparkPoints: (31,696)
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9/12/13 8:46 A

This is something I have seen as well in both adults and kids...and it irritates me to no end. I think announcers at HS football games should make a clear announcement to please rise, remove your caps and join in the singing of the national anthem (or something like that). After 9/11 people came together and actually CARED about the country, I cannot stand how many, MANY forget how they felt that day.

LEC358 SparkPoints: (9,461)
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9/12/13 8:05 A

At the Orioles games, the vendors will stop selling during the national anthem and the only sound you hear in the stadium during the anthem from most people is the "O" because well, its the Orioles. If I'm watching the game at a bar, the bartenders won't take orders during the national anthem if it's played either.

Most stadiums do make the announcement to remove your caps, rise, honor the flag, etc. I feel like just a brief sentence before the playing starts is probably enough to remind people what the etiquette is supposed to be.

Edited by: LEC358 at: 9/12/2013 (08:09)
RIVETPA Posts: 1,106
9/12/13 7:44 A

Here in Canada when the national anthem is played before a sporting event, the announcer always says "please rise, remove your hat and join us in singing our national anthem"

When there's an American team in town to play the American anthem is also played - people are generally pretty good about being quiet through both anthems and paying attention.

But I gather this is a city-by-city case thing... still some good conversation going on here.



KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
9/12/13 6:15 A

I talked to several administrators and a few of the social studies teachers and they agree that in addition to announcing the playing of the national anthem a brief paragraph containing what folks should be doing during the playing of it. It's kinda like a "teachable" moment thing for the audience.

They also agreed that I should submit the writing.....I'm not so sure about that but I'll give it a try and submit it on Friday morning.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
9/8/13 8:57 P

I may have mis-spoke when I mentioned or insinuated "morality", behavioral issue for sure.

AZULVIOLETA6 SparkPoints: (59,957)
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9/8/13 6:53 P

The Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem are two entirely different things...in my mind, one is extremely offensive and the other is not. Still, I sit still and shut up when either is happening, beliefs about religion and nationalism aside.

It is a behavioral issue, not a morality issue.



BLUENOSE63 SparkPoints: (101,558)
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9/8/13 6:35 P

I believe it started at sporting events when people decided to start drinking beer. They don't seem to want to put down the beer to take off their hat nor put their heart. My 10 year old son was born on September 11th at almost 9:11 p.m. in Monterey California -- he knows both the words to The Canadian and American Anthems, takes his hat off, stands still and sings his heart out everytime he hears either anthem. In the house, he isn't wearing a hat but he does stand and sing.....

I agree that there should be an announcement before each event. As for the hats, kids who come into my house have to be reminded every now and then but rarely. Respect is first and foremost in our house, both DH and I come from long standing military families, my husband has been in the military for 28 years......one thing my son does very well - RESPECT

It takes a village, so the next time you see this type of disrespectful behaviour -- if you are close enough just tell the offenders to silence and take off the hat. If more people did this (if you are going to walk the walk, you better talk the talk) then, perhaps, we can reinstate RESPECT for the anthem.

FIRECOM SparkPoints: (107,673)
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9/8/13 2:34 P

I am amazed at how our nation's traditions are being dismantled. We are being controlled by several minority factions. Pressure from atheists was mentioned earlier. There is no possible way that some small groups can control the entire nation.

But, when our president always gives the crotch salute during the national anthem, what can we expect?

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
9/8/13 2:15 P

The original poster mentioned that there was a "special" dedication for the anniversary of 9/11 at the football game this past Friday and that was the only connection and why it was even mentioned.

Classrooms in our district observe proper etiquette and protocol during the Pledge of Allegiance as I am SURE everywhere else, the topic for this thread is about HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL GAMES and how even in middle America (the rural school district where this thread is talking about) there seems to be a general lack of respect during the playing of the national anthem (it's an observation rather than a generalization).

I am on a crusade, however, this needs to be addressed.

As for folks wanting to alter the pledge just know that it'll never happen, just like the Cleveland Browns will NEVER win the Super Bowl.

NANAS4GIRLS SparkPoints: (37,102)
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9/8/13 1:48 P

Wish this could be done Nation Wide.

I am tired of people that do not believe or care about the culture of this country, ( even those born here ) complaining and trying to change the laws. If you don't like it fine, but keep your mouth shut, and don't participate.

I live in Ma., and I just heard on the news the other day, some parents filed a Lawsuit because they are Atheist, and do not want their children saying the Pledge of Allegiance, because of the -UNDER GOD - It is now under consideration in the courts. Hope the Judge or Judges have a BACKBONE!!

AZULVIOLETA6 SparkPoints: (59,957)
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9/8/13 1:22 P

I'm not sure what 9/11 has to do with this issue, but I don't think this is the parents' problem. It is a classroom management issue. I don't care if someone respects the national anthem or not--they need to sit still and be quiet while it is playing because that is what is acceptable behavior.

Even out-of-doors, the teachers are in charge and it is their job to make sure that students comport themselves in a respectful manner.

I teach college students. If we go as a class to the library and they decide to goof off and be disrespectful in the library, it is still my job to set them straight, even though we are not in the classroom. I have been teaching for a long time and can generally do this with just a very pointed look.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
9/8/13 12:58 P

oh yeah, I forgot, I am going to submit a letter to the district newsletter about etiquette & protocol when the anthem is being played during our school sponsored events.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
9/8/13 12:56 P

Good thought for us all!!!!

I already contacted my buddy the band director and he said we should raise more awareness about the etiquette and protocol during the anthem. He & I both are gonna make some contacts. As for the band, other than having the kids remind their classmates and continue to sharpen their playing skills not sure what else they can do, they already know the importance of the national anthem. The football coach is my main target, he's a good guy and he'll pass the word on to the team see, ATHLETES in that community are the movers & shakers and the players can really help out here by reminding their little brothers and sisters and their classmates about respect for the anthem.

I'm also fb friends with the PTO president of my building and I know she'll be on board with an idea.

I am PSYCHED!
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ONLINEASLLOU SparkPoints: (47,971)
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9/8/13 12:11 P

With Veteran's Day in November falling during football season ... maybe you and the band could do something a little special then. That would give you 2 months to prepare something.

Just a thought.

Edited by: ONLINEASLLOU at: 9/8/2013 (12:13)
WENDIBUGG Posts: 655
9/8/13 1:15 A

I've seen a lot of movies at movies theaters on military bases. They always play the National Anthem before the movie. It absolutely drives me crazy to see so much lack of respect. They even have directions for what you are supposed to do shown on the screen before they play it. If in uniform stand at attention, if not place your hand over your heart. The kids talk through it and parents say nothing. Even half the adults don't get it right. This is one of my major pet peeves.

JANIEWWJD SparkPoints: (228,245)
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9/8/13 12:08 A

I know it all comes from what is taught at home. In my home, we were all taught the Flag should always be respected and the National Anthem as well. I taught eighth grade English for 29 years, and I always stressed this to my 8th graders!!!!!

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
9/7/13 11:10 P

AWESOME idea! I extend that project not just for you & me but for all of us!
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I am going to start with the announcer; he's the jr. high social studies teacher. I'm going to ask him what can we all do to help spread the word. The football team is next. Our young boys idle the team players so maybe they can help, too. The band does an awesome playing the anthem so we got that covered. I suppose the PTO is next, maybe suggest that they start a "Patriotism" project where kids can do activities having to do with the national anthem, flag history and other related topics.

As for the adults, maybe I can contact the local V.F.W. I know they have color-guards that do the summer parades, maybe they can join us for a football game or two, that'll raise the awareness for the adults.

I'm gonna run with this and I encourage all of you, too, to maybe make mention to event coordinators about raising awareness to the etiquette and protocol for the playing of the National Anthem.

ONLINEASLLOU SparkPoints: (47,971)
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9/7/13 10:41 P

While I believe that parents should teach those types of things ... I think a school is also a place to teach those things. Why not do a little teaching? Perhaps you could make a flier ... and write a little artice in the school paper ... etc. ... not in a "preachy" or "disapproving" way. Simply instruct the students in the proper ettiquette.

Perhaps you could teach a lesson about the history of the anthem. Just recently, the actor Chris ODonnell (sp?) was the celebrity on the TV show "Who Do You Think You Are?" He learned that one of his direct ancestors was one of the soldiers defending Fort McHenry the night of the famous bombardment. He was suitably moved -- but confessed that he knew nothing about the story of the events that inspired the writing of The Star Spangled Banner (a story I learned in 2nd grade, as we all had to memorize the song for a class assignment.) I was a little surprised that he didn't know that story -- or what the words of the anthem meant. I thought that was (should be) common knowledge.

Why not be an educator? -- and provide your community with a lesson about the story and meaning behind the song as you teach them the proper ettiquette. Your marching band can help. I think that would be a great project for them for the year.
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Good luck to you.

Edited by: ONLINEASLLOU at: 9/7/2013 (22:43)
BROWNCOFIDDLER Posts: 3,831
9/7/13 10:21 P

I've worked in public edu for 15+ years. I think it's a double header kind of an issue. Many parents don't teach or encourage patriotism in their children and many schools do not teach good courses in American history, do not encourage patriotism b/c it may offend other students. When I went to elementary school in the 50's no day began without 1) standing at attention, 2) placing your hand over your heart, 3) reciting the Pledge of Allegiance and 4) reciting the Lord's Prayer, sitting at your desk with your head bowed, hands folded. We studied American History. Our parents were from the Greatest Generation - had seen (in some cases) WWI, the Great Depression, WWII, Korean War and finally Viet Nam. We were always taught patriotism at home. No matter whether you were from a Democrat or Republican family - first and foremost we were all Americans and learned to love our Country and to recognize that it was exceptional.

As for National Anthem apathy or disregard - sadly, I've also witnessed this kind of behavior from adults who will not even bother to stand during our National Anthem, will not remove their hats, do not place their hand over their heart and of course, do not sing it. What you have witnessed at HS sporting events would never have happened in the 1950's or 1960's. When I see this behavior in students or adults it is more evidence of societal decay.

Edited by: BROWNCOFIDDLER at: 9/7/2013 (22:22)
EMPRESSAMQ Posts: 5,077
9/7/13 9:59 P

In my experience, an announcement is always made over the loudspeaker quickly requesting the proper behavior before the National Anthem starts playing.

Kids I've seen at the games and events, and I've seen a lot of games and events, are generally respectful and do the right thing.

They at least, as KJ mentioned, stand still, which is their concept of standing at attention. :)

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
9/7/13 8:40 P

I don't have the best quality of voice but I can sing in tune and I love singing the National Anthem.

ELIZ1218 SparkPoints: (21,365)
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9/7/13 8:26 P

I taught my boys....
when the National Anthem is being played at the beginning of a sporting event you stop what you are doing, take your hat off, place your right hand over your heart and look at the American Flag [all in silence unless you are going to singe along]. At the end of the Anthem...lets play!

Edited by: ELIZ1218 at: 9/9/2013 (23:23)
KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
9/7/13 7:11 P

will do!

ARCHIMEDESII SparkPoints: (140,414)
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9/7/13 5:51 P

KJ,

It's not just kids. I see adults do it too. Not all of them, but a few here and there. I noticed it at the last 5K I ran a week or so ago. As we were waiting at the start line, a few announcements and statements were made firs. Then, they played the national anthem. Most people quieted down and listened politely. A few put their hands over their hearts. And a few men did NOT take off their hats. not teens. these were adult men in my age range. You know, those of us who are older than dirt.

Well, when I grew up, people were taught to take off their hats as a sign of respect when the anthem is played. If I'm wearing a cap or hat, I take it off. Although, I believe women were allowed to wear their hats as long as they put their hand over their heart. Men were supposed to take off their hats.

So, when did guys stop taking off their hats when the anthem is played ? It's not just about disrespecting the national anthem, it's just a sign of lack of common courtesy. KJ, the next time you're playing at a game, watch the adults. See how many take off their hats.


KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
9/7/13 2:36 P

RE: announcement of the playing of the Nat'l anthem

I have yet to NOT hear an announcement made at ANY event where the National Anthem is played stating to please rise.

If the event organizers would wait until everyone is quiet after the announcement the event would never start, imo.





LADYCJM SparkPoints: (32,077)
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9/7/13 2:21 P

Aren't the final words to the anthem "start your engines"? jk emoticon

I think it's lack of education by the parents and part of the self-centeredness of our society.

An announcement should be made to please stand and honor our flag, our nation and the men and women who have given their lives in service to our great country.

But, that's just my opinion.

ZIGGY122 Posts: 2,158
9/7/13 12:45 P

I have noticed this trend also, it also seems like younger folks are not taught to respect much of anything anymore several of our grave yards in this area have been vandalized. Young folks seem to want instant gratification. Not all but the few young folks that have no respect ...are the ones that always seem to get the attention in the media.. how often is reported when young folks do good positive deeds.

Edited by: ZIGGY122 at: 9/7/2013 (12:46)
CAPTNSHORTBOB Posts: 1,305
9/7/13 12:32 P

I have also noticed that and it makes me sad and angry. Parents are just as bad most of the time. They are on their phones so their kids do whatever they want. I know that if I had done that, my mother would have blistered my back side.

On a side note, GO marching band! My son can't play during games this year because he is playing football. He thought he would be able to play in the game, then play in the band during half time. But they all said no. emoticon


NANAS4GIRLS SparkPoints: (37,102)
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9/7/13 11:29 A

It should not be necessary, but if there is a P. A. System, maybe, it could be announced, before the start of the National Anthem, PLEASE RISE AND REMAIN SILENT.
Maybe then they will begin to learn what respect and honor means, heck they might even learn to place their hands over their hearts.

SHERYLDS Posts: 12,049
9/7/13 11:15 A

welcome back KJ

doesn't surprise me that people don't pay respect to the National Anthem
a lot of folks are into texting in church.

To a lot of people the Anthem is like a commercial break before the game.
It's an unfortunate insensitivity to the meaning of the National symbol
But that is a trend that was highlighted years ago by Roseanne Barr.

KJFITNESSDUDE Posts: 15,787
9/7/13 10:00 A

I am an ass't. marching band director in my school district and over the past several years I have noticed many young folk (not an opinion here, a legitimate observation) either continuing to talk while the national anthem is playing or show total disregard that's it's being played.

Ok, so if someone is at the concession stand or far enough away from the field I can see how one may not be aware it's being played but my observation are young folks (from children to mid 20 somethings) that right there in the stands close to the center front.

Honestly, I don't think it's a political stance I just think that starting about 10 years post 9/11 that the young may not be taught as much as before about respect and what it means to hear the anthem.

***note*** this is NOT a generalization or a one opinion-fits-all concern, this is purely my own observation

My two daughters are in their high school marching band (not the same one I teach) so they have already learned to stand still (attention for them) during the playing of the National Anthem so I feel like my part is covered for teaching them to be respectful while it's being played.

Here's what I'm wondering; do some folks, perhaps, unknowingly NOT remind their children to be respectful or at the very least quiet during the national anthem when it's being played?

Has 9/11 been so long ago for the young that they can't even remember it anymore or remember the patriotism that immediately followed the tragedy?

The two topics I present here; The National Anthem and 9/11, to me, are interrelated because this past Friday our football announcer made mention of dedicating the game in remembrance of 9/11 and I was astonished at the number of young folks who talked and laughed during the anthem and nary a an older person seemed to have asked them to be quiet. I teach in a small rural school district where post 9/11 patriotism was EXTREMELY high 10+ years ago and I just can't believe this is happening.

Last note: In my opinion the current political atmosphere has not one thing to do with this behavior.

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